This page is an archive and its contents should be preserved in their current form;
any comments regarding this page should be directed to
Template talk:In the news. Thanks.
Hello, anybody there? It would be nice if we actually had some working admins, as I am tired of seeing the Canadian election as the "major" world news of the past week. This deserves a lot more attention!!!
72.10.96.19714:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Admins tend to be hard to come by at this time I believe. Besides that, I'm not sure if it should move as a result of this, I suspect not so the Quebec thing will remain the 'major' item (although the top item is not the major item, it is simply the latest & besides that as we keep repeating ITN is not a news ticker so we aren't talking about major news anyway)
Nil Einne15:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)reply
There are lots of admins out there on the wiki, but there only seem to be one or two admins who come by here regularly every once in a while. It could take some more hours, I believe, but if you write it they will come. Maybe I'll become an admin in some months time and will finally be able to do it myself :). Seriously though, I believe the ITN section is a very usefull and important piece of information for getting behind the news headlines as it were. It's too bad it can't always be up-to-date.
Feer14:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)reply
IIRC there's been hostages held longer in the past. If there's some actual news released on this subject other than some arbitrary milestone passed then perhaps. --
Monotonehell10:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)reply
This article gives a good background to the item in the media's attention and seems like a major step and therefore of interest. I support its inclusion. --
Monotonehell10:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)reply
lol. undemocratic election. Oh well. Better than what's on the Mainland. Regardless of its "undemocratic" nature, Hong Kong's first-in-charge winning reelection is probably significant enough to be included on the main page.
Colipon+(
T)
06:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The wording is bordering on POV. Also not notable enough for ITN inclusion, only heads of state or similar are mentioned, which in the case of SAR of HK, under the current arrangements, would be the president/premier of PRC. --
Monotonehell15:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Wording changed. Since HK gets considerable autonomy and is usually mentioned separately from the Mainland in international statistics/news, this should be treated like a head of government reelection (eg US president, UK prime minister (in general election)), which is notable. Also see
282 articles on google news.
203.109.167.15919:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)reply
States in unions (US, Australia, Europe etc) also have considerable autonomy. They wont be included either. As general news this won't get in; another option, is this item gaining substantial interest in the media for any unusually notable reasons? --
Monotonehell20:37, 25 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The HK election seems to be a 'business as usual' item whereas the two other items you've compared it to are unusually notable. Is there anything unusual about the HK item I'm ignorant of? --
Monotonehell10:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)reply
All these "2007 incident blah blah" articles smell of newspaper style reports. In an encyclopedia events should be associated with their parent subjects. Right now we have 100s of disparate event article stubs that will need to be deleted or merged in the future. --
Monotonehell22:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The example you give is an example of a legitimate use of that title format. I'm speaking of the many articles that are being started just to report news. Then get abandoned when editors lose interest. Things like
Death of Bob Woolmer when
Bob Woolmer's article already exists and has a section on his death. Also a lot of little articles that document individual skirmishes in larger wars that really need to be merged to their parent articles. We are ending up with a load of disparate stubs instead of GA-class articles like your example. --
Monotonehell15:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I can still see the benefit of giving it a seperate article; it has implications that far exceed merely the history of the vessel - political tensions etc. Provided someone works hard on this article, it will be a perfectly decent standalone article. The skirmishes and the
Death of Bob Woolmer ares still probably over the top, though - although
2007 Bernard Matthews H5N1 outbreak could easily have been covered in
the section in the parent article, it was improved by another editor into another GA-class article (I happened to run into it when nominating something of my own for GA). By the way - any chance of the articles in today's section above going up? As examples of how it's done? ;-)
Blood Red Sandman(Talk)(Contribs)15:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Same as the recent launch of Windows Vista. ITN does not serve to help marketeers promote their product. If there was some unusually interesting social impact associated with the launch, like large scale riots, then it would be worthy of inclusion. Otherwise it has everything in common with the thousands of other products released each year, which also wont get an ITN entry. --
Monotonehell15:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)reply
There has been a major update in the circumstances surrounding Bob Woolmer story below. I think the article has been updated enough now for ITN and the latest circumstances further confirm that this is def a death that qualifies under ITN criteria. Posting here since old enteries tend to get ignored
Nil Einne05:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I agree that it should be listed. But only when the
verified results of the autopsy are released. It's still all media speculation, not encyclopedic as yet. :( --
Monotonehell11:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
CNN and the BBC have reported that the autopsy results are inconclusive, and that the police are treating this as "a suspicious death." I don't know if that means that there's more to this than we may imagine, or that it is jargon to describe an uncertainty as to the cause of death. Deputy commissioner Mark Shields has indicated that "any sudden death will be treated as suspicious until we can show otherwise and that is what we will do." I suggest:
Well, the fact is Woolmer did die the day after Pakistan was eliminated. We don't know why he died yet, one possibility is that there is a causal relationship, another is that it's purely coincidental. I don't see how the wording above implicitly favours either interpretation.
Mikker(...)16:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Let's use another wording, to clarify what I meant: suppose we write "Bob Woolmer dies a day after eating two bananas he bought at a local supermarket" (corny example, I agree, but bear with me). That wording would imply that the eating of the bananas played some role in his death, or at the very least is relevant enough to be mentioned in conjunction with his death. I don't see how the elimination of Pakistan is relevant in regards to Woolmer's death.
Cows fly kitesMain: Aecis/Rule/Contributions16:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It's relevant because it's a major line of enquiry, whether or not it turns out to be causally related in the end. Just as the bananas could reasonably be mentioned if there was some suspicion that they might have been involved.
Stephen Turner (
Talk)
17:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
From what I've gathered, no line of enquiry has been made public, and the police have refused to comment on any possible cause. So where have you learnt that this is a major line of enquiry?
AecisBrievenbus19:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It's most certainly a line of inquiry:
this article claims marks were found on his neck, indicating a possible murder. There have also been stories in the Pakistani media about a murder plot. One motive for such a murder is, of course, Pakistan's not qualifying for next stage of the world cup. Besides, any investigation into an unusual death has to consider the possibility of murder/suicide and any investigation of murder/suicide has to consider possible motives. The coach of a cricket-obsessed nation dying the day after its embarrassing elimination from the world cup is most certainly a plausible motive for murder/suicide. It's also something that should have gone up on ITN ages ago.
Mikker(...)19:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
(redent) Some of you are failing to see the distinction between a newspaper's activities and an encyclopaedia's activities. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. We should only report established verified facts. Media speculation is part and parcel of the infotainment aspect of a newspaper. Any unverified information has no place in Wikipedia. Please form your arguments around this underlying principle. --
Monotonehell09:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm not making any speculation, I only said that it was a line of enquiry. Which it surely is, unless
Mark Shields is very, very stupid. But I don't really care about the exact wording, only that it should be there.
Stephen Turner (
Talk)
10:23, 22 March 2007 (UTC)reply
That wasn't directed at you specifically. Just a general note as most people are focusing on getting the "wrong" item listed. Wikipedia and ITN are NOT news reports. What's important here is listing his sudden and unexpected death. Since my last edit the article has been improved to a point that I believe that it meets the criteria for listing. After a discussion on its talk page the amount of rampant non-encyclopedic speculation has been toned down. May I suggest something like:
I have done it myself, but I am not an ITN regular, so please let me know if I have broken anything. We had an image - what happened to it? Not free? --
ALoan(Talk)00:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)reply
"The
Government of the United Kingdom adopts legislation prohibiting school students wearing the Muslim veil and other religious items in the name of security."
Or something along these lines as this is a fairly major development in Anglo-Islamic relations —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
Ahadland1234 (
talk •
contribs).
Oppose.
There is no article about it, which is a prerequisite.
Your summary is wrong and
biased. The government has issued guidance to schools that they may ban the full-face veil (
niqab). This is in line with an earlier court decision that such a ban may be justified. As I understand it, there has been no legislation, no general prohibition, and no ban on religious dress other than the full-face veil.[2] The situation is entirely different than the ban in France.
To be fair who mentioned religious dress? Are you also arguing that this is not a significant development. It is not biased it just shows lack of understanding, I heard it on a news programme mere minutes ago, the article on the programme mentioned that the government had adopted legislation.
Ahadland11:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I should have said "no ban on religious items other than the full-face veil". I'm not in tune with the Muslim community, but I don't think it's that significant because it was already decided by the court case and the guidance only reflects that judgment (if they'd wanted to stop schools banning it, they would have had to introduce new legislation). Also because the full niqab is very rare in Britain — it's not like they banned the normal headscarves.
Stephen Turner (
Talk)
11:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Not sure if renaming something that happened last year is terribly notable. A rose by any other name, and all that. Is there any major International repercussions leading from this one sentence update that I'm ignorant of? --
Monotonehell16:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
This development is a "semantic reinterpretation" of an event that is no longer current. There are no substantial developments in the conflict/war itself, so I don't think this is enough to warrant inclusion. As Monotonehell said, a rose by any other name etcetera.
Cows fly kitesMain: Aecis/Rule/Contributions12:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Im telling you guys, this world cup is full of headlines and upsets, surprises, tragedies and this sad death of the Bob Woolmer. We demand a line saying somthing like "The drama of
2007 Cricket World Cup continues"! This is not even fair because there weren't even any trageties in the olimpics or the fifa world cup but with so many having in the cricket world cup we still are not going to get a line?--
Thugchildz18:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I do think this should go on as it does meet the ITN death criteria (unexpected/surprise & noteable in his field; also arguably it's going to effect current events a fair amount) but the article may need to be update a little more first. In any case, I've listed in in portal as required (well I think I've done it right, not sure)
Nil Einne19:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It is unexpected/surprise, no one would have thought it was going to happen. His is a very very notable cricket coach,one of the world's greatest coaches, he's credited for modernizing cricket coaching, Woolmer worked with the South African team before coaching Pakistan. He used a trademark style of coaching with a laptop always with him to analyze and reflect to the situations, he embraced innovation and was at the forefront of many new developments in the game. It will effect the current events(reactions of the Pakistani fans, players experts has changed, their mind has been taken of their loss to ireland,and everyone's mourning this death). It already has a section of the world cup death in his article. Its casting a shadow over the whole world cup and how is that not notable? The whole cricketing world is mourning his death. His death clearly should be mention on INT.--
Thugchildz19:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Why is this not up yet? The whole cricket world is mourning his death and you guys aren't taking it seriously? just look at [
cricinfo](leading cricket web site). Everyone, from the ICC(sports governing body) to players and experts are mourning this death.--
Thugchildz01:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Woolmer is one of the most well-known and influential cricket coaches in the world, his death was most certainly unexpected and this happened in the middle of the world cup, right after the team he coached was unexpectedly eliminated from the tournament. Imagine
José Mourinho dying mysteriously right after Chelsea being eliminated from the Champion's League...
Mikker(...)15:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
No one's actually suggested that this shouldn't be included and yet you're all carrying on like it's been rejected. At the time Nil Einne said that the article needed work, the article did need work. It seems to have been updated enough now. Although it contains a little too much speculation (albeit based on news sources) I'd like to see it properly updated after the post mortem is concluded. But at this point I believe it satisfies the criteria. The original suggestion was a little sportif orientated and almost reads that the loss caused his death, perhaps something more like this: --
Monotonehell16:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
What's written in other sources isn't of interest to ITN candidates, those sources need to be included in the article or introduced on the article's talk page for inclusion. One of the
criteria for listing is that there exist a substantially updated article on wikipedia. That was the only concern with this item's inclusion. Not how big a story it is in the media. --
Monotonehell17:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Firstly, please chill out. Secondly, these sources are listed in the Woolmer article (external links...). Thirdly, of course it's relevant what other sources say: I was reading this stuff anyway (as I'm into cricket...) and thought that in case non-cricket fans wanted more info on whether this is n.b. enough for ITN, whether the article is updated enough etc. I could simply point them quickly and easily to the best sources.
Mikker(...)17:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm chilled :) Sorry if I was terse. What I was saying is that links to external sources should be brought up in the article and on its talk page, not here. If they have been incorporated into the article properly there should be no problem seeing that the article meets the International interest criteria. Posting a load of sources here doesn't really help when the issue is whether the article has been substantially updated as per the other criteria or not. What helps in that case is getting the article up to scratch. --
Monotonehell17:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Breaking news! Foul play has been suspected. The police reportedly found marks on Woolmer's neck. Check the article. It will generate more news now.
Grumpygrumpy03:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
If we have to choose between Woolmer and this, I suggest the former go up. Otherwise put both up. (Besides, the Trident story that this would remove assuming Woolmer goes up first isn't at all important and isn't ITN worthy in the first place).
Mikker(...)16:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
There's no choosing between items, each item is judged on its own merits. The rugby comp probably isn't(?) a top level competition and so doesn't escape the strict no-scoreboard practice of ITN, the Woolmer article does however escapethe strict criteria for no-obituaries practice. --
Monotonehell17:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The Six Nations Cup is arguably the second biggest rugby event in the world after the World Cup, and can roughly be compared to the UEFA European Football Championship. I think it is notable enough for ITN. If Woolmer is put up, I think we should be careful to avoid making any link between the elimination of Pakistan from the World Cup and his untimely death. I do think that we should choose between these two: having two sports-related items on the top of ITN would create an imbalance. But there is a way to deal with it, since France won the Six Nations before the blurb about the Finnish elections was put up. That would make the order of ITN: Woolmer - Finland - France rugby - China - Bornean Clouded Leopard. Tsvangirai probably needs to be taken down as well, to make way for the two new items.
AecisBrievenbus18:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
If it's the second then it's not the ultimate competition level and so as per usual practice should not be mentioned in ITN. But that's the question, where same sports have multiple top level competitions how do we choose what gets in and what doesn't? Is the 6 nations over seen by the same organisation as the (rugby) World Cup?
EDIT: Answering my own question. The
rugby union article says that the World Cup is the most important with the six and tri-nations being under that.
I don't see any reason to worry about having two sports related items at the top of the list - there's no subjective order here so I don't think we should start reverse-discriminating. Just let the items update to the top drop off the bottom naturally. When considering additions we should also consider which ones will be removed, just remove them when their time is up. --
Monotonehell18:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It's not fair if the Six nation goes up because ICC champions trophy didn't go up and it was the second most important tournament after the world cup. And so that shouldn't go up.--
Thugchildz06:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I've suggested some photos below of the National People's Congress building. Thought I'd mention it here since from previous experience people don't tend to notice new photo suggestions down there
Nil Einne11:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Pakistan is out of the 2007 Cricket World Cup after losing to Ireland in one of the biggest upsets in world cup history. Ireland who are making their debut at the world cup qualifies for the second round.
I really think we should get a line like " the cricket world cup continues", there are so many upsets and headlines, its fair to have it like that.--
Thugchildz05:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Agreed with the above reasoning about fairness, even though it was a major upset by Ireland. However, I'd prefer waiting until the World Cup is actually over, then announcing the winner on ITN. Until then, we're just taking up space with a fairly uninteresting line that is more tokenism than actual news.--
Phil500 (
Talk /
Contribs)
08:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It would be if there were an updated article somewhere on Wikipedia. I'm not seeing anything in any of those links mentioning it. --
Monotonehell11:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I don't know if we should have a continues line but I do think we should mention both the Bangladesh and Ireland victories (provided we have appropriate updated articles of course). We already have an example of why the Bangladesh victory isn't just about cricket. For an example of why the Ireland victory/Pakistan defeat similar isn't just about cricket,
[3]Nil Einne10:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Standard ITN practice is to only mention the result of the final of any sporting competition. Wikipedia is not a newspaper, and ITN is not a scoreboard. --
Monotonehell 11:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC) Ninja edit hey?: What I said above, this is something we should include when there's an updated article and if the item is worded in a way to focus on the news, not just a stealth way to get sports results on the front page, which will cause complaints. --
Monotonehell11:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Added. The precedent with the Indon crash a couple of weeks ago makes adding this relatively uncontroversial. The only thing that will be a pain is that the number of fatalities will need to be updated with the article (currently at "at least seven"). Daniel Bryant07:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Looks like it won't make it to DYK, and it's still a current news event, so maybe an ITN mention would help get editors to that page. –
Chacor16:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)reply
This person is not "officially" in the record books, but BBC and many other websites state that he turned 116 years old today (03-16)... —
dima/s-ko/21:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
He is not the oldest man in the world, since he has not been recognized as such. And even if he were, I don't think his 116th birthday (happy birthday btw, Mr. Nestor, if you are reading this) is not notable enough for inclusion. Him breaking
Jeanne Calment's record in September 2013 would be another matter though.
AecisBrievenbus21:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Sadly, these unfortunate friendly fires have happened too often. I'd be more supportive of this suggestion if this case escalates into an international (larger) incident between the US & UK authorities. --
PFHLai16:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The update amounts to one sentence and isn't substantial enough to warrant inclusion. I agree with PFHLai that if the incident causes more fall out in the future which is added to the article then it should be reconsidered. --
Monotonehell16:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The best option would probably be to bold shooting rather then Matty Hull IMHO. While it's true FF incidents happen all the time, this one was particularly noteable for whatever reason. I'd have to weakly agree tho that I'm not sure whether the conclusion is itself enough to warrant ITN even though the incident may be
Nil Einne01:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The article was created today, and is of a respectable size. A new mammalian species is an unusual event. In this case, the leopard was a known animal, but was believed to be a variety of the
Clouded leopard. Research in 2006 established that it was significantly different, but it was only on 14 March 2007 that it was officially declared a new species.
(WWF)-
gadfium05:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm tempted to support this, but is it in the spotlight of the World's media? If not then this would make an excellent DYK candidate. --
Monotonehell08:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
If it's called the People's Republic of China, say "People's Republic of China". No need to add an unnecessary, inaccurate and perjorative modifier if it's not absolutely critical. --
我♥中國05:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Perjorative ??? Huh... I have no idea !!! Have I just insulted my own country without knowing it ? Yikes ! 我 also ♥ my 中國, you know, Miborovsky. I don't know how or why it would be perjorative, but I would like to apologize to all my fellow Chinese. I am banning myself for the rest this month. :-( --
PFHLai16:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Do my edits count ? I ain't refuting that the term can be and has been used perjoratively, Miborovsky, but I didn't know about this till you brought it up. Maybe I should read more. It doesn't matter what I intended to say. If it can be perceived as derogatory, it was bad to put on MainPage. I am still banning myself the rest of this month. I've made edits today (requested, not on ITN), and I'll make up for today's ban on the first day of the next month. --
PFHLai12:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm afraid, with the current 100px size restriction, it would be hard to fit this on ITN and still display the
Great Hall of the People properly. (Looks squished, somehow. And the 2 guys in front ruins the view.) I tried cropping, but it still doesn't look good on my screen. Does anybody else wanna try ? --
PFHLai16:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Alternatively, I manually shrunk the image with Irfanview. It's actually better then the wikimedia version IMHO, would be good if some sharpening could be applied perhaps although maybe that's too complicated and/or won't work with many images
Nil Einne11:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
When it comes to nuclear weapons, yes, IMHO, there is international interest. Not that many countries have nuclear weapons. There was a chance to reduce one, and they blew it. Oh, well.... (Hey, at least this story is more interesting than some dirty army hospital in the US last month, btw.) --
PFHLai16:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Not posted (yet). Relevant new materials are lacking in the
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed article. The one new sentence about the confession has no references.
[5] Please update the article with more current information. Thanks. --
PFHLai00:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The article has been updated further with sources. I support adding this item, but I wonder about the wording: should we note the context of the confession (the
military tribunal at
Guantánamo Bay), or the fact that the only source for the confession is a Pentagon-provided transcript? I don't doubt his confession myself, but I know some people who would — especially given the likelihood that he's been torturedsubjected to coercive techniques.
I might be missing something, but the article still ends with "As of 2006, Mohammed has not yet stood trial." There doesn't seem to be any info on what is happening now. --
Peta05:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I posted the item, along with a cropped version of the picture. I went for the word states instead of confesses to dodge the issue of the reliability of an (almost certainly coerced) statement. Confesses implies the statement is true while states has no connotation either way. -- tariqabjotu15:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
CNN is reporting that he's admitted to personally being the man who beheaded Daniel Pearl. Should this be added to the ITN item? Dismas|
(talk)15:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
There's a NASA image accompanying the
AP story which could probably be used to illustrate our story too, since NASA images are public domain; however, I haven't been able to find the source on NASA's website so that we can upload it with proper attribution. —
Josiah Rowe (
talk •
contribs)
09:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I have a hard time trying to fit the pic with Lake Superior onto ITN without making things messy and complicated. Anyone want to try ? --
PFHLai01:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Yeah, I couldn't make that work either — I had hoped that NASA had the version without Lake Superior somewhere, because that would have fit better. But if that's an AP derivative of the NASA image, we can't use it (although some talented Wikipedian — not me — could probably make the same crop). —
Josiah Rowe (
talk •
contribs)
04:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Generally entertainment news doesn't find its way into ITN (it's not very encyclopedic, more tabloid), unless it's notable by its unusualness. Also this is a very local concern and doesn't meet the International interest criteria. --
Monotonehell14:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Some context: this is a very long suspension, usually handed out only for doping offenses. The fight after the match has probably received more attention than the match itself. It has an international interest in the sense that it involves two leading clubs/teams from two leading national competitions (Serie A and Primera Division) in the leading club football competition in the world, with players of about ten countries involved.
Cows fly kitesMain: Aecis/Rule/Contributions14:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
A -draft- bill that effects a single country doesn't seem important enough for ITN. The EU climate change pledge from a few days ago was far more news worthy. --
Peta23:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The Trident missiles can take over that spot, I suppose. Is there an updated article about the EU climate change pledge ? --
PFHLai00:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Oh, boy ! poor guy ! (laughs...) I'd rather not embarrass this fella anymore by putting him on Wikipedia's MainPage. Tabloids can do this and they'll do a much better job than an encyclopedia would ever do. If you insist, please post a headline on
Portal: Current events first (as per ITN guideline #1), and expand his mini-stub into a decent article. Thanks. --
PFHLai22:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I can't believe this isn't up here yet. It's so important and should be up there for the whole length of the world cup with updates as to what stage of the world cup it is on.
Sfdasfr03:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Last year in the Commonwealth Games and the FIFA World Cup Wikipedia didn't take that attitude!! Just because
cricket (which is an FA) isn't popular in parts of the world doesn't mean it doesn't deserve the same treatment as the soccer or the Commonwealth Games! The
Cricket World Cup (which is an FA) should not be treated with partiality!
Sfdasfr04:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The previous examples of the Commonwealth Games and World Cup were aberrations from the intent and purpose of ITN, which is to provide background information on things that are the current focus of the news media, not to replicate the news media's purpose. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, Wikinews is a newspaper, we should not tread on our sister project's toes. --
Monotonehell12:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I concur - while all matches and developments do not deserve headline news, the commencement of the tournament does deserve a mention amongst the headlines. This World Cup is being contested by 16 countries from amongst 97 countries that sought to participate in the World Cup. The commencement of this event is of international importance and interest and has been covered so by the international media as well as domestic media of several countries.
Chocolate Horlicks17:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Support a metion of the tournament starting, and when there is a winner it should go up too, but this should not receive a continuous mention throughout it's duration. And Howard the Duck is right, Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, and we do not have to do B, simply because we also did A. We do not have a policy of legal precedent.
Thethinredline20:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)reply
TFA now has the
Cricket World Cup article featured. But aside from that, the opening of regular competitions are not unusually notable. Any sort of "business as usual" event is not appropriate for ITN. For example the annual US
State of the Union Address wasn't mentioned recently. As it shouldn't unless some unusually notable event occurred surrounding it. WHEN something like that occurs, and then IF there's a suitable article (not a stub) that contains sufficient background information of the kind that a casual reader would expect to find in an encyclopedia beyond what a newspaper would contain, THEN the item can be considered for inclusion. Remember people: the focus of ITN is encyclopedic not newspaper-like. --
Monotonehell04:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)reply
As stated above. Notable sports should only mentioned in ITN when there's a resolution. Further there must exist an article that has been substantially updated with current information, that can only occur after the event has concluded as it must be
verifiable. ITN's purpose is not to advertise events, it is to provide encyclopedic background information on items that are currently in the World's media. --
Monotonehell10:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)reply
After midnight UTC tonight, i.e. when
Cricket World Cup is no longer on MainPage as the TFA, I wouldn't mind seeing
on ITN. However, the '2007 Cricket World Cup' page must be updated with game stats and a short prose about the game, referenced of course. I also suggest merging
Cricket World Cup 2007 Opening Ceremony into the '2007 Cricket World Cup' page. After a day, when more matches have been played, perhaps the line should change to
And we should let this line move along the ITN template and disappear in a few days. (Let's not use ITN as a daily scoreboard.) When we have a winner on April 28, then we can have another line on ITN. How is this ? Hope everyone is happy this way. --
PFHLai14:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)reply
This should be revisited when the competition comes to an end and a winner is confirmed as per standard practice. Not before. --
Monotonehell11:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Yes. As per standard practice, if there is a lack of prose about the competition in the article, this will not be featured on ITN even when we have a winner. Just simple stats and a line saying who won will not be considered an adequate update. --
PFHLai13:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It better be! Please dont hold double standards and so if the cricket world cup didn't get a line so shouldn't the olimpics or the fifa world cup. Also the final of the world cup should get more than a line because its a big deal--
Thugchildz21:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Probably, but 2008 is kind of too far ahead. Maybe a number of cricket-loving admins can start a revolution and change the ITN rules before the end of 2007 Cricket World Cup. :-)
I tried to keep 'similar' (slightly lower, I'm afraid) standards during the past Winter Olympics and it was quite hard. It wasn't just one page, but a whole set of pages. I think it was luge (+ 1 other sport, I forgot which one) that never got onto ITN because all the updates were tabulated stats. For individual events, the gold medalist must have a wikipage, but there were a few copyvios that prevented certain events from appearing on ITN. It was chaotic. And people complained ..... it was not fun. I wish whoever running ITN during the 2008 Olympics good luck.
If anyone really want
2007 Cricket World Cup to appear on ITN, please update the page. Thanks. The purpose of ITN is to showcase well updated pages, you know. Write something. Just a few lines about the match. Who was the 'Player of the Game'? Why? Anyone making his international debut ? Anyone made a new personal best ? Any team running a winning/losing streak?... Something..... --
PFHLai00:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
This approach should be taken equally with all events. The Olympics is difficult however as it isn't one competition with one outcome, it's a collection of events that has several "finals". So unless we only look to the medal tally at the end I'm unsure how to give it justice without turning ITN into a scoreboard. Something we'll all have to think about before next year. --
Monotonehell02:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)reply
2007 Cricket World Cup group stage have a paragraph about every game! And just to let you know already something big happened! The Irish making their debut, tied with Zimbabwe (3rd tie in history). Can we please get a line when the super 8 stage start? because big things happen all the time and its hard to request and then get them up in time. Plus the super 8 page and the group stage page have and will continue to have a paragraph update after every game. So please consider giving a line for the super 8 which will start on Tuesday 27 March.--
Thugchildz01:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Also, Herchelle Gibbs scored six
sixes off an over and thus scored the maximum of 36 runs of one over. Which is the first time such a thing has happened in cricket. There is still time to mention the Cricket World Cup. The
2007 Cricket World Cup group stage is brilliant! I can't imagine why you haven't put it up still.
Sfdasfr04:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Can we please get a line in the ITN, this world cup is all upsets and headlines. Today Ireland and Bangladesh(both "minnows" and was very much unexpected to win) Beat two of the favorites -Pakistan and India. This is the Irish debut world cup and in this they qualified for the second round. Thats big. It got front page(6 columns) in the Irish heading news paper. This is world cup is global and have teams from all the continents and deserves a line in the ITN because its not possible to get big things like this up in time.--
Thugchildz23:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The globalization of cricket is increasing day-by-day with Ireland defeating former champions and cricketing heavyweight Pakistan and Bangladesh beating Asian cricket superpower India, which was one of the favourites to take the cup. When will this globalization reach Wikipedia???
Sfdasfr01:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The article is not substantial enough to provide the background information for inclusion. The item isn't listed at current events. The item doesn't meet the international interest criteria. Please review the
criteria for inclusion. Did you mean to place this at DYK?--
Monotonehell11:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I support for this, to name that Australian journalists and diplomats were there as passengers. It could be a contentious airplane disaster news in the coming ddays. —
Indon (
reply) —
08:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I support putting this up, but I don't see the link between this plane crash and the two earthquakes that would warrant merging these into one blurb.
AecisBrievenbus11:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
My kneejerk reaction was that it's not notable due to the self reference angle. But after a few moments' reflection, I support this inclusion, if we can find the right wording for the item. It's a bit of a wake up for those who implicitly trust the open nature of Wikis in general as instantly self correcting works. Perhaps something like:
It might be leaning toward the editor's side of the editor/reader dichotomy for the main page, but I think it's something that should be highlighted and not buried. --
Monotonehell21:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I'll pass, as this seems quite minor to me. It's not
Hwang Woo-Suk faking stem cell research that attracted the world's attention. Just one bad user, amongst thousands and thousands around the world. BTW, pls be reminded that news items should be posted at
Portal:Current events first, as per ITN guidelines. Thanks. --
PFHLai22:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)reply
While I understand that, I don't really know if it's wise to go against normal ITN practice for this especially since even if the attempt is to 'come clean' it's going to be seen as self-referring. Perhaps some people would say it doesn't violate normal ITN practice but IMHO it does. Yes it received some fairly noteable coverage for a wikipedia issue e.g. it was somewhere in my local paper (NZ Herald) but I don't think it comes anywhere close to normal level of international interest and notability for ITN items.
Nil Einne18:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Essjay controversy was pulled from DYK very quickly yesterday. The article has become a battleground for editwarriors and is currently protected with ongoing disputes. As such, it should not be featured on ITN. --
PFHLai19:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Again, it's all accusation and speculation at this point. There's no verifiable information other than his death. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a newspaper. We need a substantial and informative background article on a subject before we can include an item in ITN. --
Monotonehell09:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Just having another annual meeting doesn't seem enough for ITN these days. I'd suggest a headline to highlight Wen's pledges and announcement. Perhaps the following:
I remember from the tv news last night that there was something "exceptional" about this particular sitting. Any idea what that was and if it's notable enough to include in ITN? Otherwise this is nothing special as far as ITN is concerned. --
Monotonehell06:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I agree. As with my comments when the US/Bush state of the nation speech came up, unless the speech is particularly noteable it's unsuitable for ITN IMHO. If Wen Jiabao annouced that he intends to turn China into a real democracy within 5 years and protect human rights allowing international observers unrestricted access to ensure both, that would be a noteable speech for example.
Nil Einne17:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Yeah... I think this item seems too much like 'business as usual', just another annual report, so to speak. I wonder if the approval of the huge military budget would be "exceptional" enough. --
PFHLai00:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I think the military budget, along with the largely populist speech made by Wen is definitely enough to fit the "exceptional" status of a news item. So I propose the following:
Please excuse my ignorance, Colipon. What do you mean by "unusually populist issues" ?
Also, the article on the 10-day meeting right now is mostly about Wen's annual report. What's in the agenda for the other 9 days ? Is that huge military budget approved yet ? --
PFHLai15:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Wen's report, and a few laws to be passed on the last few days are the most important parts of the session. "unusually populist issues" refers to the fact that Wen's speech has toned down the Communist Party's usually political rhetoric and focused greatly on ordinary issues concerning the general populace. Like I said, you can change the wording.
Colipon+(
T)
04:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Legislation on private asset ownership in a communist country ? That's quite interesting. This should be on ITN as soon as it's rubberstamped by the Congress and documented in the wikiarticle. Passing that huge defence budget would work as well. --
PFHLai00:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)reply
You'll need an article in Wikipedia documenting what happened, which requires noteworthy things to have already happened, or there'll be nothing to write about. Please check back after the eclipse and after you've updated the relevant articles. Whether this goes on MainPage depends on how those articles get updated. (If something special happens, a brand new article may be created.) A series of nice pictures of the eclipsed moon would be nice start, IMO. Happy editing. --
PFHLai07:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Not completely true PFHLai, with predictable astronomical events of note (eg best viewing opportunity of a comet or in this case a best in years lunar eclipse) it is worth putting an item in ITN, as after the fact isn't much of a service in these cases. We did recently with the January comet viewing. The need for after-the-fact verification for such events isn't as great, as it would be a unique and notable event indeed that would cause the Moon to go off course. A link to the
Lunar eclipse article provides sufficient background information to those wondering what a lunar eclipse is and that article has been updated to note the next event and its viewing opportunities. Perhaps something like...
A
Lunar eclipse, that is expected to be the best viewing opportunity in years, will occur on the 3 March and be partly visible over the eastern Americas, Europe, Africa, Asia, and Western Australia. --
Monotonehell09:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Actually the comet was after it was no longer visible in the northern hemisphere and after it had been visible in most or all of the southern hemisphere for a few days (I'd already seen it in Auckland) and was starting to fade (although it was staying in the sky for longer and going higher so may have been easier to see). It was still visible in the southern hemisphere for a while longer but it wasn't exactly before the event and we already had a good article by the time. I'm not saying we should do the same, obviously the eclipse is fairly short, few minutes or hours event actually I personally think it would have been good to mention the comet earlier, just pointing out the it wasn't really the best eg
Nil Einne22:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)reply
The original
Ungdomshuset article is already updated substantially following the riots. I don't know if the riots warrant a seperate article. This page is for suggesting news headlines for the ITN section on the mainpage, not for page creation requests. Thanks for creating the page anyway.
Feer14:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)reply
I'll pass, as you mentioned, it's not as sensational as the previous storm. Furthermore, there is a more severe natural disaster elsewhere this week. I'm waiting for a wikiarticle about the flood in Bolivia
[9]. If we put this US tornado item on MainPage and ignore the Bolivian flood with a much higher death toll, there will be many people screaming about a pro-US bias/emphasis again. --
PFHLai17:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Especially since Wikipedia is not a newspaper and such "cover story" measures don't factor into the criteria for inclusion. --
Monotonehell14:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)reply
While perhaps 'sensational' isn't the best word I would argue we do in fact consider such details. There are many disasters which results in deaths all the time. Other then the obviously lack of articles which excludes a number of them, we have to and do consider international interest and this is dependent on things like the size of the area affected, the number of people affected (whether dead, injured or displaced), the economic cost, the frequency etc.
Nil Einne22:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Yes, "sensational" is not a good choice of vocabulary in this discussion.
Interesting, if this is indeed the first case of e-voting, it may be worthy of an inclusion. However I think the focus needs to be placed on the process not the article about the election which is content poor. Any other information/opinions on this? --
Monotonehell11:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)reply
It seems to be true, and the e-voting via the internet is a part of an EU-program. The election is on Sunday, March 4, so the article will probably be expanded as of that day; I highlighted the general article as regards to e-voting in Estonia, although I gather that the election is more important...
Camptown15:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Well the election itself can't be placed in ITN until the official results are verified (ITN standard practice). I'm looking more at the angle of the e-voting itself, but being mostly ignorant of the facts, I'm relying on others to advise on this. --
Monotonehell17:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)reply
This isn't the first incidence of e-voting, my wife (who is Dutch), voted via the internet in the Dutch parliamentary elections several months ago (we live in New York).
Thethinredline22:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Posted. I didn't use the word 'survive', though. Sounds a bit "chatty". If it's a proper technical term, I can re-edit ITN to change it. --
PFHLai 15:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Or ask another admin when I'm not logged in. --
PFHLai17:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)reply
Was the bombing actually directed at Vice President Cheney, or was it it just an incredible coincidence that the bombing occured while he was there? Because if it was directed at him, i definitely think an assasination attempt of someone like the US Vice President would merit ITN attention.
Thethinredline00:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply
The BBC have reported: "The Taleban said they carried out the attack and that the attacker was trying to get to Mr Cheney, who was on an unannounced visit to the region."
[10] CNN has reported: "The Taliban claimed responsibility and said Cheney was the target. Cheney was unhurt in the attack. ... The vice president had spent the night at the sprawling Bagram Air Base. He ate breakfast with the troops, and met with Maj. Gen. David Rodriguez, the commander of U.S. troops in Afghanistan. He was preparing to leave for the meeting with Karzai when the suicide bomber struck about 10 a.m. (12:30 a.m. ET), sending up a plume of smoke visible to reporters accompanying him."
[11] And according to Al Jazeera: "Cheney, who was on a unannounced visit to the region, was staying in a room at the base where he had to stay the night after bad weather forced postponement of his trip to Kabul. "At 10 a.m. I heard a loud boom," Cheney told reporters. "They moved me for a relatively brief period of time to one of the bomb shelters nearby," he said. "As the situation settled down and they got a better sense in terms of what was going on, I went back to my room until it was time to leave." The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack, saying that the bomber was targeting the American Vice-President. "We wanted to target ... Cheney," Taliban spokesman Mullah Hayat Khan told Reuters by phone from an undisclosed location."
[12] It might be bluff or propaganda conceived after they found out that Dick Cheney was at the scene. But if they are correct, it would mean a high-level leak/spy in Afghanistan or the US.
AecisBrievenbus00:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply
I agree with putting this up if the plummet continues tomorrow. Afaik the stock markets in Asia are about to open, and Europe will open in about 8 hours time. The problem is that there's not an updated article yet. As far as the wording is concerned, I suggest: "
Stock markets around the world plummet after rumours about illegal share trading and fears of accelerating inflation in
China." Or shorter: "A slide on the
Shanghai Stock Exchange sends
stock markets around the world plummeting." In both cases the word plummet(ing) would contain the link to the updated article.
AecisBrievenbus01:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Even though I understand this to be the biggest drop on Wall Street since Sep 2001 - Until some appropriate source we can cite, records any notable effect on the global economy, and that information is added to a article that is more than a simple "it happened" stub; *breaths* we can't add it to ITN. --
Monotonehell11:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply
I agree that Wikipedia is not a newspaper, but Wikipedia would be a very good place to link all the stock market slumps around the world together, provide context, etcetera, all in one article. The slump seems to be continuing today, with the FTSE 100 losing 52 billion pounds off its total value in two days.
AecisBrievenbus12:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply
I agree that this global market sell-off should be listed. Also, it is just as worthy to be listed on the front page as a major weather storm (which we have had many on the front page in the last 6 months)
69.119.239.13813:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Perhaps, but please be reminded that this is not a vote, but a discussion, and that
Wikipedia is not a democracy. Most important problem at the moment is the lack of an updated article about this event. As long as that is missing, the event cannot be added.
AecisBrievenbus13:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)reply