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Wikipedia talk:In the news. Thanks.
Three people are injured after being stabbed in an attack at
Manchester Victoria station. The attacker shouted "Allah" during the attack. The attack is being treated as a terror-related incident, police have confirmed, and due to concerns over his mental health, the suspect is being held under the Mental Health Act.
(BBC)
An explosion caused by a gas leak devastated a block of flats in
Magnitogorsk,
Russia, killing 14 people while 27 others are missing.
(BBC)
International relations
Russia's
FSB state security agency says it has arrested a U.S. citizen "caught spying" in
Moscow. According to former
CIA officials the arrest was done as a retaliation for the arrest of alleged Russian spy
Maria Butina.
(BBC)(Daily Beast)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Veteran Afghan-born, Indian-Canadian Bollywood film actor, screenwriter, comedian and director who acted in more than 300 films DBigXrayᗙ07:30, 1 January 2019 (UTC)reply
Comment - As with most of Indian film personalities, awards and filmography are not referenced. Can we move this to a new page? -
Sherenk1 (
talk)
12:07, 1 January 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose no prose update for the results, no refs for "Coalitions and alliances", conduct section focuses on violence and vote rigging -- how many ballots cast, how long were polls open, etc? Not MP ready. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
22:26, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support National elections are definitely important enough to be included. The article is not complete, but has most relevant information.
Jose Mathew (
talk)
04:54, 5 January 2019 (UTC)reply
Voters in
Bangladesh head to the polls to elect 299
representatives to parliament. Seventeen people were killed in deadly clashes between supporters and opponents of the country's ruling party.
(BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One of the so-called fathers of the Internet, as he was one of the critical leaders of ARPANET. Note that while his death was on the 26th, and word of it spread via social media over the weekend (mostly through Vinton G. Cerf), only this day is when RSes are starting to catch news of his death. The article should be in good shape (I fixed a missing ref and added about the death).
Masem (
t)
02:39, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support Very popular Indian director from Bengali film industry.
Sherenk1 has done some work to improve the article already. If the filmography section is a concern that is blocking the promotion of this ITN, then it is better to
WP:CFORK the filmography to another article as is the norm with Indian Cinema BIOs. --DBigXrayᗙ22:42, 1 January 2019 (UTC)reply
Support It's like the European Trade Union, right? The foundation of that would have surely been ITN if Wikipedia were around then, just because Australasia gets seen as less significant than America and Europe doesn't mean it is.
Kingsif (
talk)
17:44, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I don't think coverage in English language is a requirement, as it is not a requirement anywhere else in en.wiki. (if the material was potentially contentious, we'd need to make sure the English translation was solid, no Google translate, but that's a different issue) --
Masem (
t)
14:40, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
How can we label it "In the News" if it's not in the news media that most readers of English-language Wikipedia are exposed to?
In the case of major natural disasters, wars, etc. in non-English-speaking countries, such events usually are widely reported in Eng.-lang. media, so there's no problem with posting them on ITN. If events aren't significant enough to make Eng.-lang. media, they're unlikely to be of wide significance.
English has long since become the international language – for which the 1.2 billion of us who speak it as a first or second language can only be grateful.
Anyway, this particular event directly affects three English-speaking countries – Australia, New Zealand and Canada – so its absence from Eng.-lang. media raises doubts as to significance, IMO.
Sca (
talk)
15:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Part of the reason is our (ITN's) approach to when to post stories like the onset of trade pacts, posting when the pact happens rather than when it is ratified. (same with business mergers, etc.) The ratification is usually the more newsworthy event, the actual onset a footnote. Certainly, via google news, around March 8, 2018, when the TTP was signed, it was well-covered by English sources (BBC, Bloomberg, etc.) That's a situation we put ourselves in for wanting to avoid CRYSTALBALL events. On that basis, we should look to make sure that events like ratification were well-covered, and still post even if the actual passing wasn't. --
Masem (
t)
15:23, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Okay, I can pretty much buy that, although I'm a little nervous about retroactive significance, so to speak. It's just that I don't remember seeing much coverage of the TPP signing – but maybe that's my septuagenarian memory in (in)action.
Sca (
talk)
15:35, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support As noted above, ITN has been a bit slow and this seems like a good candidate to freshen up our corner of the main page. Article quality is decent with better than average referencing for a change. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:29, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support given article quality and the fact that it is topical in a number of countries including English speaking nations such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada. It would be topical in the US if President Trump had not withdrawn.
Capitalistroadster (
talk)
23:13, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
In response to a roadside bombing that killed three Vietnamese tourists and an Egyptian tour guide the previous day, Egyptian police kill 40 suspected militants.
(The New York Times)
Yemen's
Shiite rebels say they have given control of the port of
Hodeida to the coast guard and local administrators. The Yemeni government disputes this claim.
(AP via Seattle Times)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. Over 120 items in "Film and television" but not a single source (although many are blue links, of course). Support posting in principle, given her stature in UK comedy, but not prepared to try and source all of those single-handed, sorry.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
22:13, 29 December 2018 (UTC) (thanks to a recent spate of vandalism, the article is now protected for three days, so now even the IP nominator can't improve)reply
Comment The article needs citations, but I'd even support a blurb for her since she pioneered and opened up comedy for women way back when - as every obituary is focusing on, even more than her Miss Marple and being knighted.
Kingsif (
talk)
23:44, 29 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment You now have a referenced filmography section, except for works since 2000, which are all blue links and presumably somewhat easier for other editors to find (and 50 years "only" took me 2 hours, anyway)
Kingsif (
talk)
01:49, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support blurb Over 60 year career, and a heap of reliable sources saying she is what made comedy a viable career for women. Definitely hits the threshold for having a big impact in ones field.
Kingsif (
talk)
01:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Except for the two series that were her own entirely, and that whilst largely supporting roles, she's been in practically every single comedy the UK has produced.
Kingsif (
talk)
17:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose We're still missing about ~15% of the role credits, otherwise support. Oppose blurb, just not that high a level of significance here (long career != significance). --
Masem (
t)
16:50, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Not long career so much as the first woman to be a lead comedy actress, appearing in over 100 (mostly comedic) roles a year since the early 50s. That's a world changing impact in her field, undoubtedly.
Kingsif (
talk)
17:54, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Posted as RD. Whether she merits a blurb can continue (but I will still argue that just having numerous roles or being the first of something like this is not necessarily equating to a leadership in the field). --
Masem (
t)
21:24, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
An explosion caused by a roadside bomb hits a tourist bus in
Cairo,
Egypt, near the
Giza pyramid complex. Three Vietnamese tourists and an Egyptian tour guide are killed, while 12 others are injured.
(BBC)
The three men suspected of causing an explosion at a shop in
Leicester in February are convicted of
murder. The explosion destroyed the shop and the
flat above it, killing five people. The three men were also convicted of conspiracy with one of the victims to commit
insurance fraud.
(The Guardian)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The first chief of astronomy at NASA's office of Space Science and was the "mother" of the Hubble telescope, champion of securing scientific support and funding for it, among other achievements at NASA. While she died on the 26th, first RS mention appears to be the 28th.
Masem (
t)
14:48, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: French resistance fighter who rescued Jews during World War II dies at age 108. Article is short with one cn-tag.
Davey2116 (
talk)
07:39, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
I am not thrilled that to avoid trying to fill CNs, about 6k of content was removed. I agree some of it was a bit puffery , but removal of it all didn't seem appropriate just because sourcing the few CNs may be hard. --
Masem (
t)
21:21, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I never shy away from hard work like that. The decision was justified. See
here. There was some serious POV battle on this article. I thought the best option was to return the article to a condition similar to when it pass GA review. ---
Coffeeand
crumbs22:07, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I'll accept that, fair enough reason, though obviously I'd hope someone woudl review what was removed later and try to source and correct in line with policy. --
Masem (
t)
14:51, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: A nationwide outage of the most important phone number and a lack of an ability to report emergencies is definitely news-worthy.
24.34.85.169 (
talk)
17:38, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose Network outages like CenturyLink are routine. 911 bring down in some areas may have impact but unless some severe crisis occurs due to it lack, that itself is not significant. --
Masem (
t)
17:56, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose – As a result of this
glitch, I had no internet service Thursday, and was reduced to reading books and even cleaning the house. Though tragic, I don't think my experience qualifies for ITN.
Sca (
talk)
21:02, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
More references are needed, I see some unreferenced paragraphs and the works and awards need to be sourced as well. --Tone15:09, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Referencing of text OK although there is room for improvement. Works and awards partly referenced. I would suggest remaining part of section needs to either be referenced or removed pending the availability of references from reliable sources.Weak oppose at this stage.
Capitalistroadster (
talk)
21:28, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I commented out all awards without ref (for now), leaving an impressive list of those sourced, and gave the publications a ref. I'll never understand why we and the readers don't just go to authority control for that. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
09:21, 29 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Street battles between anti-government protesters and riot police in
Sudan leave at least 19 people dead, including two
policemen, as well as hundreds injured.
Amnesty International puts the death toll at 37.
(Al Jazeera)
Argentina lifts a travel ban on Canadian singer
Justin Bieber, who had been previously banned from the country for his role in the beating of a photographer in November 2013. A Document of Resolution was signed last week, officially ending Bieber's ban, so Bieber may now freely return to the country.
(Daily Mail)
The DRC government gives the European Union 48 hours to recall its envoy in the country after the EU imposed sanctions on 14 Congolese officials.
(Vanguard News Nigeria)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Posted I note that the short list of films can be sourced in the body, but ideally those sources should be duplicated. Also the list should avoid ELs (but the ELs can be located elsewhere). --
Masem (
t)
14:53, 31 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Note: I have commented out the image used at the top of the article due to some vandalism. I couldn't track down what caused it, but if you look at the old revisions of the article the image is clearly damaged, despite working fine on the page of the image itself. Pinging @
Ad Orientem and
Masem: in the hopes that one of you knows how to fix this / fully protect it / idk but it should be fixed. See the relevant old version at
[6] (warning - very graphic NSFW) --
DannyS712 (
talk)
02:52, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Update: restoring the image size to 175px appears to fix this. I don't know why, but suggest that it be protected while on the main page to ensure that this isn't removed --
DannyS712 (
talk)
03:03, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Ongoing: United States federal government shutdown of December 2018
Nominator's comments: Ongoing nom since the government has been partially shut down for almost a week at this point, with no end in sight.
Davey2116 (
talk)
17:45, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Aside from the already mentioned reasons, it is only a small portion of the government that is shut down(I think 25%). Most of it is still funded.
331dot (
talk)
18:06, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support it's in the news, article is ok, a number of government offices (such as CBP) are running through the shutdown but technically the staff aren't getting paid. I think a blurb is better than ongoing, but that's my $0.02. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
18:55, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
This is not a true shutdown until January 3, 2019, after the holidays when the new Congress is seated. A true shutdown is surely ITN-worthy because as many as half a million people will be out of a job. Wait till Jan 3 and I would support. Right now it is nothing more than an extended holiday for non-essential employees.---
Coffeeand
crumbs23:55, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure what you mean by "not a true shutdown"; several government departments are unfunded and closed as a result at this time. It is true that many employees take time off for the holidays and so the actual effect is minimal until their expected time off is over- but Twitter is already filled with stories from federal employees unable to pay their bills because they are not working. This is a "true shutdown".
331dot (
talk)
09:16, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Strong support This is most definitely in the news. There are updates from various news sources from all ends of the political spectrum every morning and every evening.
24.34.85.169 (
talk)
17:40, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
What incremental updates will there be? "The goverment has been closed X days", then "Y days" and so on? No negotiations are occurring or are expected to occur until Pelosi is Speaker.
331dot (
talk)
21:31, 30 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Yet no one has proposed a blurb. And really, what blurb is there to propose? Parts of the government are temporarily not being funded due to political disagreements, which will all end once a budget resolution is passed. Not news.--
WaltCip (
talk)
16:41, 1 January 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose for multiple reasons: (1) this is a routine US political disagreement (2) The "shutdown" isn't really a true government "shutdown" because critical government functions continue as per normal.
Chrisclear (
talk)
01:24, 4 January 2019 (UTC)reply
After a 53-day trek,
American professional endurance athlete
Colin O'Brady allegedly becomes the first person to cross
Antarctica alone and unaided; his claim of being unaided has been disputed, and the first person to really cross Antarctica alone and unaided was
Børge Ousland in 1996 and 1997.
(BBC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: I'm quite surprised that no one has accomplished such a feat in the 100+ year history of Antarctic exploration but this seems like a very notable story.
EternalNomad (
talk)
11:06, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support The article is well enough. One might argue that it's not a THAT important feat, but given the usual late-december news drought I say we should give it a chance. I mean, the most recent item is already 5 days old.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
11:09, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Certainly seem notable, but absence of detail makes me wary. Assuming this was a straight line...how far did he travel? "Unaided" ...he was carry 54+ days of food the whole way? Have others even tried this?
ghost15:05, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support on notability (I came to add this myself when I saw it was already here). I'm okay with the current blurb, but agree that it could be improved. --
DannyS712 (
talk)
22:54, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Weak oppose A little short, though well sourced. With all obits coming out, can the article see a little expansion such as a personal life section? But good work on the article! --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
08:11, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American soccer coach with the record for most MLS wins and hugely influential on the game's recent (post-1990) development in the U.S.; article is an FA but is need of updating for his later coaching career. SounderBruce01:11, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. I'm a huge MLS and football fan and I'm really sad to hear that. Schmid was very important for the league. The article is in good shape except for his later coaching career.--
SirEdimon (
talk)
01:32, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Afghan health ministry says that yesterday's attack by a suicide bomber and three gunmen on a government building in
Kabul killed at least 43 people. No group has claimed responsibility.
(CBS News)(Daily Sabah)
A man stabs a local government official and a police officer to death in the streets of
Longyan,
China, then hijacks a bus and drove it into pedestrians, killing eight people and wounding 22 others. Authorities said the perpetrator "took revenge on society" after a dispute with local officials about his father's veteran benefits.
(CNN)
Thailand approves marijuana for medical use and research. The country voted to amend the Narcotic Act of 1979 prior to the
New Year’s holiday.
(BBC)(CNBC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
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WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Well known biomedical engineer and science fiction author. Needs a little work in referencing but the article is, surprisingly, not in horrible shape.
Ad Orientem (
talk)
00:09, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The death toll following the tsunami caused by the
Anak Krakatau volcano has risen to at least 429, according to
Indonesia's disaster mitigation agency. Also, 1,459 people are injured, while 150 are still missing.
(BBC)
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
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further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support We've posted some pretty light disaster articles before, this looks good enough. I think the fact there there are two high-ranking officials, both sitting, gets this over the hump.
ghost16:24, 26 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose RD - Oppose Blurb The two bio articles are borderline in their quality and need expansion. This incident does not warrant a blurb. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:30, 26 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Let's ask the question if a helicopter accident killing all 5 people aboard would get a blurb or not. I think we would (referring back to the helicopter accident a few years back that involved 3 athletes), so the blurb should be the accident, noting the two notable people aboard killed. Altblurb given to support the crash as the blurb focus--
Masem (
t)
23:58, 28 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Currently, this is stale for RD (even though Eileen Battersb is in the 22nd section on this page, she died on the 23rd, the day after Rotem). There is no consensus for a blurb to be posted. This was a (
non-admin closure) --
DannyS712 (
talk)
08:54, 27 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Support RD, oppose blurb Article is in a great shape, but unfortunately I don't think he passes the Mandela criterion. But what do I know? Let's see what others think.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
15:01, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support RD, oppose blurb The length of the article is very indicitive that this person doesn't pass the significance bar to even start talking about a blurb. RD is fine and article is ready for it. --
Masem (
t)
15:13, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose RD for now. Referencing needs work. Also oppose blurb on merits. If this were the last veteran of World War II or the last survivor of the Holocaust I'd likely support. But this individual's notability does not rise to a blurb. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:18, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support An unusual mass casualty event with some connections to
a major historical event that probably should be at least mentioned in the article. The article is short but adequate and decently referenced. I would expect expansion as more details emerge. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
02:28, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Wait if we're "not a news ticker" then there is no reason to express yet another barely above stub disaster article to the main page. -
LaserLegs (
talk)
02:53, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
There's clearly enough details and assessment of deaths to know this will be posted once a minimum article quality is reached. If there was an incident but no word of any deaths or injuries, that would be the point to wait. --
Masem (
t)
03:53, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Reword? Post-posting support, and the poster quite rightly rejected 'caused by', but our blurb would be more interesting and informative to our readers if it said 'A tsunami that followed an eruption of
Anak Krakatoa ...'. Alternatives include 'connected with' and 'related to' (but 'that followed' or 'following' is in the article's currently cited sources). (Incidentally, last time I heard, the BBC was suggesting the tsunami was probably caused by an underwater landslide caused by the same underground forces that caused the eruption, rather than being caused by the eruption itself). As the omission is not an error it should presumably be discussed here rather than at WP:ERRORS.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
17:58, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: UK politician, former leader of the Liberal Democrats. The news is just breaking but I had 3 edit conflicts trying to update the article, but it looks in good shape.
Thryduulf (
talk) 20:06, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Thryduulf (
talk)
20:06, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support RD not flawless (and probably worth waiting an hour for the high-volume editing to die down) but nothing significant that will prevent posting this. Certainly not blurb-worthy, but just prominent enough someone might suggest one.
power~enwiki (
π,
ν)
20:11, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree with your comments about a blurb. He was a prominent figure in British politics for decades, so it's not unreasonable to ask the question but I think the answer is no as he never held high office and wasn't otherwise a major international figure.
Thryduulf (
talk)
20:15, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support The national honours section needs cited, the styles of address is bare (though I don't know if its needed? Don't care, personally - it's understood). Otherwise, clean as a whistle, sharp as a thistle, no sticks, no gristle.
ghost20:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Overall article quality is actually quite decent. Referencing is not perfect, but it is far better than what I typically see for prominent RD nominations. There are a few gaps, but not enough to block posting. (The honours section does need some work though.) -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
20:48, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support RD, weak support blurb as long as the blurb focuses on his role as the High Representative for Bosnia; a lot of news coverage of his death focuses heavily on the post-Yugoslav Wars reconstruction of Bosnia that he, among others, had a large hand in. Sceptre (
talk)
23:32, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Thee's two CNs on statement that do not seem obvious/non-contentious. This doesn't as significant as for a blurb, but clearly RD once these CNs are filled. --
Masem (
t)
05:34, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former Chief Literary Critic of the Irish Times, died in a car crash aged 60. Article looks OK to me, but I'm not well-qualified to judge such matters (plus 5pm on Christmas Eve is perhaps not the best time to be expecting people to be updating articles). -
Tlhslobus (
talk)
17:04, 24 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Ecuadorian drug trafficker and
FARC dissidentWalter Arizala is killed in a joint police and military operation near
Tumaco. Arízala was wanted for the murder of two Ecuadorian journalists earlier in the year.
(BBC)
At least 23 people are killed and 14 injured in
Dang Deukhuri District,
Nepal, when a bus carrying students and their teachers returning from a botanical trip runs off a road and plunges 700 meters into a ravine.
(BBC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Weak Support - was working towards a nom myself. Still some problems, particularly with one passage which is poorly referenced, but nearly good to go.
Stormy clouds (
talk)
14:02, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: I have no doubt that some people somewhere in France are standing around in a yellow vest protesting. This story has largely fallen out of the headlines (particularly since the Christmas market attack); the article is still getting updates but it's mostly content tweaks, re-orgs and some reactions from Taiwan; the last substantial update in the timeline is "Act V" (what does that even mean) on December 15 sort of related to the 2018 Strasbourg attack and before that December 10 with a speech from Macron. Like California wildfires we pull it when the story is done, not when the event is done. Time to take it down, I think.
LaserLegs (
talk)
23:44, 21 December 2018 (UTC)reply
OpposeSupport Removal The trickling here and there news will take a long time to stop. The substantial story, however, has slowed down to extent Ongoing is no longer warranted. –
Ammarpad (
talk)
08:49, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support removal The "Ongoing" ticker are meant for events that have, on average, daily major updates. While no question the protests are still ongoing, the news-making is more of a dull roar with a few periodic updates here and there, making it fail the "ongoing" ticker requirement. --
Masem (
t)
15:36, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Like I pointed out in my nom, the updates are mostly content tweaks and ref fixes. I'm doubtful that protesters in Pakistan or Taiwan are protesting fuel prices in France. This may still be happening, but it's no longer "in the news". --
LaserLegs (
talk)
18:49, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It's not about updates on the WP article, but how the news in general is updating the situation. And there only seems to be a few blips of changed information day to day while non-violent protests continue. --
Masem (
t)
21:31, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support removal. If it flares up again or there are other significant events it can get a new blurb, but for now it's died down below front-page level.
Thryduulf (
talk)
20:17, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Neutral - I offer the following paragraph from the "In The News" guidance article for people considering this removal suggestion: "An accepted blurb may be transferred to 'Ongoing' by an administrator if small, incremental updates are still appearing in notable news agencies, and if the administrator is satisfied that regular constructive editing is continuing on the relevant article(s). Major developments should be nominated for a new blurb."
doktorbwordsdeeds23:04, 22 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Myanmar's
military announces it will resume "clearance operations" in
Rakhine State after a recent spike in attacks by unidentified assailants. In the past week, two
Rakhine fishermen and a teenager were found murdered after they were reported missing, while two
Maramagyi villagers were kidnapped and stabbed but managed to escape their abductors.
(AFP via South China Morning Post)(Radio Free Asia)
Gatwick Airport in
West Sussex,
England, is shut down intermittently since Wednesday night, after drones are seen flying over the airfield. Police believe it is "a deliberate act to disrupt the airport". Hundreds of thousands of passengers are affected.
(The Argus)(CNN)
Ten years after the collapse of
Belgian financial group
Fortis in the
financial crisis of 2007–2008, the prosecutor in
Brussels decides to drop the case against seven former directors. The prosecution argues that it found insufficient evidence that they knowingly misled shareholders with over-optimistic company information.
(Reuters)
Denmark passes a law that requires new citizens to shake hands with a Danish official at their
naturalization ceremony. It is widely believed that the law was made to spite potential Muslim immigrants, who usually refuse to shake hands with people of the opposite gender. Several Danish municipalities are openly looking for loopholes in the law.
(The New York Times)
Protests break out across
Sudan over rising prices of bread and fuel, resulting in at least eight deaths.
(Al-Jazeera)
The CENI electoral commission delays the election to 30 December after 80% of the voting machines in the capital were destroyed in a suspected arson last week.
(NPR)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose at present due to insufficient coverage. The article describes well where he worked and a list of things he published, but there should be a narrative summary of what his work entailed: major themes of his work, what did he satirize, what kind of poetry did he write, etc. SpencerT•C08:34, 24 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The Pentagon reports it has begun withdrawing U.S. troops from
Syria, with a spokesperson saying that the
coalition has liberated
ISIL-held territory but also that the campaign is not over.
(Reuters)
In a third trial, former
Blackwaterprivate military contractor Nicholas Slatten is convicted on one count of first-degree murder over the 2007 mass shooting.
(NBC News)
Nominator's comments: Please note this is not a normal RD nomination, as Geisel does not have a true standalone article but is redirected to
Dr. Seuss, as she was his widow and she was notable for maintaining his estate and overseeing the various adaptions of his work since his death. However, she does not have her own page on WP, nor would I think it appropriate given how much of her life is around Dr. Seuss. Many sources are giving her long-form obits, so there's clearly notability there. This is a unique situation, in that this should only be an RD, but I have not marked it as an RD because it doesn't meet the specific RD fit; consider this nom an IAR suggestion. There are some small sourcing problems on Seuss's page.
Masem (
t)
05:48, 23 December 2018 (UTC)reply
This is simple, Masem. She does not have an article currently and writing one seems unlikely. If indeed there are "long-form obits" and reports about here life then start an article for her. My "long-form obits" in scare quotes does not mean to diss the orbits nor her life, I really never know her whatsoever, but it means to show if they cannot be used to build an article, then they're lacking in something contrary to how you're suggesting they're. The way RD works is fine, one should really have an article to be considered, and we do post a lot of articles which are barely stubs. RD is a privilege not a right. –
Ammarpad (
talk)
06:46, 24 December 2018 (UTC)reply
(Closed) US President Trump orders the withdrawal of all US troops from Syria
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Clearly a major story, especially in the US, but with major implications for the Middle East and geopolitics. The withdrawal has already begun,
according to the White House. I leave it up to others to add altblurbs about the controversy, about the claimed/disputed victory over ISIS, etc, if they wish to do so. Earlier POV nom by IP was rightly snow-closed. Article not yet updated. I've had to change 100 days (heard from the BBC) to 30 days (per above Time link), although many sources expect 60 to 100 days will be needed in practice. It also currently seems unclear whether we should say 'all US troups', or 'all US ground troups'. Article has been updated in both the lead and the body of the article (a section to which the blurb is now linking). That update did not originally repeat Time's 30 day claim, so I removed that from here (
though it's also 30 days in NYT: 'Defense Department officials said that Mr. Trump had ordered that the withdrawal be completed in 30 days.').
Tlhslobus (
talk)
05:13, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose Trump had long indicated he wanted to remove troops there since April at least, this is not a surprising development. Further, the media is jumping on this as sensationalist news - its very similar to how the UK press was attacking PM May over the Brexit stuff over the last week. --
Masem (
t)
05:28, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
That's not the impression one gets from reading what the article lead says about 2018, backed by cited sources, but of course if we want to dismiss all our
Reliable Sources as Fake News, then we can presumably post or not post anything we like (especially in relation to Trump who has been saying lots of things on lots of subjects for years; on that basis, for instance, we wouldn't post a US withdrawal from NATO as it would 'not be a surprising development' given what Trump has said in the past). Indeed on that basis we could almost never post the end of any country's involvement in any war, since there will almost always have been some indication beforehand that the possibility was being considered.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
08:08, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Currently it seems Trump is still mulling the withdrawal, but hasn't issued the relevant order as the commander-in-chief. The Dept. of Defense website hasn't announced the withdrawal either, although it has a
link to its Twitter account saying "We have started the process of returning U.S. troops home from #Syria as we transition to the next phase of the campaign".
Brandmeistertalk09:21, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It is not that the RS are fake news here, but that with Trump as controversial a president as he is, the news sources cover every action he does in such a critical manner moreso than any president prior, and that creates sensationalist news, making such events seem like the end of the world or the like with how much they cover it. We have to be aware of this media subject inflation in evaluating ITN stories. --
Masem (
t)
15:25, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The news sources we use to judge whether something is ITN is the mainstream media that are repeated what the Pentagon, the White House, and others involved have said and added their own spin atop it. That's the sensationalism part at play. --
Masem (
t)
17:00, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support this is seeing more than enough coverage to support. Plus, even if it's not surprising, if this had been nominated in April it would undoubtedly not have been posted because it "hasn't happened yet". Also, there're articles like
this saying there'll be wide implications..
Banedon (
talk)
12:28, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose Not particularly credible. Changes orders like the wind blows. And Department of Defense and officials contradicted him. That a partial withdrawal may have started is no guarantee that the political rhetoric will become fact. 7&6=thirteen (
☎)12:34, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose the article is a meticulously referenced monument to proseline.
example. It's certainly in the news, but concerns above about Trumps erratic behavior are also valid. A presidential twit is not the same as moving troops. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
12:52, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - A manufactured story. As with most other things that Trump has done, this is merely to distract from the recent news regarding the dissolution of the Trump Foundation as well as other legal issues he's facing.--
WaltCip (
talk)
13:02, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose for now we'll have to wait and see if he actually withdraws troops, or if the US just withdraws some regular troops, while retaining advisors, spec ops, private military contractors and all the other rabble they brought with them. As of right now, I don't believe for a second the US is actually going to remove their illegal occupation of the country, the hawks are far too strong in Washington (as evidenced by the media meltdown in general).
Openlydialectic (
talk)
14:36, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support the actual withdrawal. There is only one way to verify Trump's promise: wait for the withdrawal and post this then. I suspect a bit that this will be canceled and that Trump will rant again on Twitter about "Animal Assad" and blame Obama. wumbolo^^^21:27, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Two
Scandinavian women on a backpacking holiday were found dead in
Morocco with cuts to their necks. The bodies were found in an isolated area in the
Atlas Mountains, near the tourist village of
Imlil, Marrakesh-Safi. 13 men are arrested with links to a Jihadist group.
(The Guardian)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
IMDb is not a
reliable source for Wikipedia. I just added a Variety article as a source for a number of entries in the filmography (though most of the specific character and episode names are not sourced in that article, so the section may need further cleanup).
Funcrunch (
talk)
02:22, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support – Significant and well-known director, actress, and member of the LA/Hollywood community. News of her death has been widely covered, and conspicuous by its absence here. Article looks to be mostly well-cited (this isn't an FA/GA nomination, right?). —[AlanM1(
talk)]—19:30, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
@
Muboshgu: Is that reason to omit it from the RD list? Is there a guideline about the criteria in this regard? If the unsourced 'graph (in Career?) is the problem, should it be removed so the article can be listed? —[AlanM1(
talk)]—19:24, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Not sure why Stephen has put orange tags on the sections of her work. Haven't we discussed this before - if a film etc is a blue link, there's no need to provide a citation as well??
MurielMary (
talk)
22:50, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I've put orange tags on because they require references, and there is a stream of people here stating that it's fully referenced. This has been discussed endlessly in the past. References need to be in the primary article, and a reader shouldn't need to click through to verify a claim. And many of the blue links are for series articles that do not specify individual episode casts and verify them. And many of the listed media are not blue links. Whether we need a list of every minor appearance in an encyclopaedic article is another matter.
Stephen22:59, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I'm okay with Filmography. Awards section is not supported by the citation given; most of those can be deleted as niche, though.
ghost12:45, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose due to lack of a prose update about the actual pageant and it needs a tense update. Support the good faith of this nom, and I could get behind a more comprehensive article. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
11:34, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. After the quick close last year, this one has no rationale, and looks like a disruptive nomination. Please do not nominate next year without good reason. wumbolo^^^13:30, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Note: several editors below use the terms "good faith" and "bad faith". I did not use any of them in my comment, and they are irrelevant here (disruptive ≠ bad faith). wumbolo^^^14:45, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
You said that this nomination is disruptive; that suggests some sort of nefarious motive in making the nomination on the part of the nominator(at least to me). I guess we will just have to disagree about that, but I hope that a well meaning editor was not driven off with your statements that they were disruptive.
331dot (
talk)
18:33, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Wumbolo I see no evidence that this nomination is anything other than in good faith. If you have evidence of bad faith or intent to disrupt, please offer it or withdraw the comment. Thank you.
331dot (
talk)
13:33, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominating an insignificant event every year, without remotely reflecting on the fact that the past year's nomination failed, is disruptive. wumbolo^^^13:40, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that this appears to be a good-faith nomination. There is no moratorium on nominating events that previously failed to gain consensus, though of course they usually meet the same outcome.
Modest Geniustalk14:39, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) From the policy you cited: Editors may propose a change to current consensus, especially to raise previously unconsidered arguments or circumstances. On the other hand, proposing to change a recent consensus can be disruptive. The nominator raised zero previously unconsidered arguments or circumstances. Since the nominator did not attempt to contest the previous consensus, it should not be changed. wumbolo^^^14:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
A year ago is not recent enough to be disruptive. A day, a week, or even a few months, maybe, but not a year. I strongly disagree with your characterization of this nomination even as knowing (and agreeing with the fact that) it will likely fail.
331dot (
talk)
14:50, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
You're confusing "existing" with "being notable." I'd agree that people once cared about Miss America, but that time passed decades ago. This one is even less notable.
ghost14:48, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. My view hasn't changed since last year: no beauty pageants are sufficiently important (in terms of either encyclopaedic value or media interest) to merit an ITN blurb. No rationale was presented in the nomination, so there's really no reason to change my opinion. Besides, the article is little more than a bunch of tables and a description of the venue.
Modest Geniustalk14:39, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Your rationale of "not sufficiently important in terms of either encyclopaedic value or media interest" would apply to Hockey World Cup, such a minority sport.
STSC (
talk)
15:13, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Though I agree with 331dot that this was not a disruptive nomination. Consensus can easily change within a year on ITN. Still, it seems a bit passe to be highlighting beauty pageants in 2018, especially since they're not in the news anyway.--
WaltCip (
talk)
15:10, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - In general, the "recognition" of beauty pagaents has dramatically declined in the last few decades. Also,I'm thinking that with these types of annual/biannual/etc. events which are not currently in ITNR, that ITNR should be sought first as it doesn't make sense to ITNC a one-off event. (I agree this should not be taken as a disruptive nomination, just better to have had it start at ITNR first). --
Masem (
t)
17:07, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American university president and politician. I had to do a little housekeeping on the article but it looks sufficient -
Dumelow (
talk)
17:59, 18 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Wait I agree with Sca, and feel that a blurb can be posted when the crisis is over and someone is charge with a level of stability.
Kingsif (
talk)
15:34, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
OpposeRanil Wickremesinghe is orange tagged for refs can't post a BLP vio to the MP bold or otherwise. This story is also way far down in the headlines. We posted this when it started, then it sat in Ongoing for a while ... is the return to the status quo really that "significant" given that the Prime Minister has no real power? --
LaserLegs (
talk)
12:42, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose as written, as the article on
Ranil Wickremesinghe is ineligible to be the focus article of the blurb. Would probably support a rewritten blurb more explicitly directing readers to the
2018 Sri Lankan constitutional crisis which is in much better shape. I would also support ongoing for that article too. It appears this is still receiving regular updates, so highlighting through ongoing is appropriate. --
Jayron3218:09, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support on notability (I leave others to judge quality) but agree with Jayron that the target should probably be
2018 Sri Lankan constitutional crisis (presumably with some consequent blurb modifications). All the evidence currently suggests that the crisis is resolved at least for the time being, with the successful reestablishment of proper constitutional norms and the proper constitutional government, and the apparent acceptance of this by the (at least temporarily beaten) Rajapaksa. Of course future events may eventually change that, but that's seemingly
WP:Crystal (so there seems no justification for Ongoing either). This is not simply ordinary domestic politics, it is the apparent defeat of something close to a coup d'etat (roughly comparable to the Queen in the UK deciding on her own to appoint Boris Johnson PM and order a General election contrary to the will of Parliament, with both then caving in to a Supreme Court ruling), and would almost certainly be posted if it occurred in a Western democracy. Something like that did actually happen in 1970s Australia when
Gough Whitlam was ousted by the Queen's representative
John Kerr; there was no Wikipedia at the time, but we have recently posted a far more trivial story about the parliamentary elegibility of a few Australian MPs. (Incidentally, both Australia and Si Lanka's population are of similar size, so it might seem a bit racist to try to argue that Australia is far more important than Sri Lanka). Failure to post on grounds of alleged insufficient notability would thus look like a bad case of
WP:BIAS.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
06:46, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose both blurb and ongoing. The news is now domestic and of little interest to wider audience. There was crisis and resignations (and that was news and we posted it then) and now no crisis and normalcy restored (and that is non news) per my reply just above this. –
Ammarpad (
talk)
08:28, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment: How a crisis ends is at least as much news as how it starts. Indeed it's also more encyclopedic and more informative to the reader who gets to learn far more than at the start, including more about the background (which is what ITN is supposed to supply better than other sources) because we have had more time to write it up (and this extra time also tends to allow us to show better quality articles to our readers, which is another of the stated purposes of ITN). Or perhaps for consistency we shouldn't be reporting the end of wars either, on the basis that peace is normal and therefore the outbreak of peace is not news. Incidentally the main resignation (Rajapaksa's) came at the end of this crisis, not at the start.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
10:03, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
You're not wrong, but this ignores the fact that we already had this posted (for a long time). Items eventually fall off or are removed, but that doesn't imply that the thing is over. Events will continue to unfold, some of which may warrant posting themselves. But we cannot imbue them with the significance of the event that already was posted, or ITN would be overwhelmed with the daily skirmishes in Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, etc.
ghost13:00, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I'd agree with you if this were just another event in an ongoing crisis. But the facts and the sources indicate that this is the end of this crisis (although it hasn't helped that this was not clear at the time of the nom, resulting in lots of early opposes, etc). Of course the crisis will inevitably have some ongoing effects in the subsequent 'normal politics' phase, but not posting on those grounds would be like not posting the end of a war because it will inevitably have some ongoing effects in the subsequent 'normal peace' phase. Similarly not posting the end of the crisis because we already posted its start is like not posting the end of a war because we already posted its start. (And it would also be like not posting
Malcolm Fraser's election win because we had already posted
Gough Whitlam's dismissal if Wikipedia existed in the 1970s, except that ITN/R would make that impossible). But a much better argument for not posting (and indeed for closing) relates to the (in my view rather regretable) increasingly apparent unlikelihood of a new consensus to post emerging here before the story goes completely stale. This suggests that some thought may be wanted about what, if anything, can be done to try to avoid this kind of problem in future, tho this is presumably the wrong forum for any such discussion. Y
Tlhslobus (
talk)
20:21, 19 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment: I have updated the blurb (Alternative blurb II) to reflect some of the issues against the quality of the
Ranil Wickremesinghe article. This is domestic politics of Sri Lanka, concerning the status of democracy in the country and the avoidance of returning to authoritarianism under
Mahinda Rajapaksa, which is one of the most important political issues in the country, but the outcomes of this crisis has effects that resonate through to the whole of South Asia and Asia region, such as allying with India and the West in favour of rule of law and democracy or with China and authoritarianism, to put it simply. The Supreme Court decisions also proved to be landmark rulings in the country, going against the powerful executive branch and showing the independence of the judiciary, independence that was severely curtained under the Presidency of Mahinda Rajapaksa. To put it bluntly this whole crisis is another way Rajapaksa is trying to seek and stay in power, after being barred from the presidency, while he is backed by China, who is using him for there
Belt and Road Initiative through
Debt-trap diplomacy.--
Blackknight12 (
talk)
07:50, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support and support ongoing - not stale: on 19 December, the Prime Minister appointed his new cabinet and now the race is on to approve a budget before the end of the year. The anticonstitutional coup failed, and that's a major geopolitical event, but "continued acrimony between Sirisena and Wickremesinghe means the crisis is far from over".
[23] We can work on the blurb and the articles as the situation continues to evolve.
Wakari07 (
talk)
13:52, 20 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support on notability, oppose on quality I'm a little surprised that this isn't ITN/R, given that the highest levels of a number of far smaller sports (both in terms of participation and viewership) are represented there. But, yes, it needs a prose breakdown of the final at least.
Black Kite (talk)14:23, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose Prose is existential to an encyclopedia. Without it, you have an almanac. Which is a fine thing, just not the thing we're doing here.
ghost13:52, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support once more prose has been added. This appears to be the top event in a noteworthy sport. The blurb should also be edited to include the "In
field hockey" opening that we normally use for sports items.--
PlasmaTwa214:03, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose original blurb, neutral on the article on the final and altblurb for now. The article on the main tournament has no prose update, just an unreferenced table of results. The article on the final is slightly better but I question the quality of writing: if tightened up (which it badly needs) how much is actually there? The opening half sentence "The 2018 Men's Hockey World Cup Final was a field hockey match to determine the winner of the 2018 Men's Hockey World Cup..." is almost a textbook example of redundancy with the sole apparent aim of shoe-horning it as many links of questionable value as possible. Similarly the prose in the Route to the Final section essentially replicates the the earlier diagram instead of expanding upon it in matters of substance. The prose on the final itself is not significantly better. The match started promisingly. For whom? One of the teams? The viewer? We don't know so that adds nothing.
3142 (
talk)
12:42, 18 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Indian soldiers and counterinsurgency police exchange gunfire with militants in the southern district of
Pulwama, resulting in the deaths of one soldier and three militants. The soldiers then opened fire on a crowd of anti-government protesters who gathered after the battle, killing seven civilians and injuring 40 others.
(The Independent)
Disasters and accidents
20 people died and 14 others are injured when a truck carrying mourners returning from a funeral ritual plunged around 400 metres (1,300 feet) onto a river bank in central
Nepal.
(Times Now)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: All the Ukrainian Orthodox noms recently have been denied, but they actually went and did it this time, if that makes it more ITN-worthy. The news was on BBC headline news tonight, so I feel it's "in the news". I think it also technically happened on the 16th in Ukraine, but 15th UTC.
Kingsif (
talk)
02:39, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment unlike before, there's an article at
2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism with great depth (though it needs copy-editing). For those who have been watching this, the Tomos of Autocephaly won't be granted until January 6
[25]. I'm not up to date as to whether this is relevant to post; Putin or
Patriarch Kirill will almost certainly make news in the next few days if it's a critical enough step.
power~enwiki (
π,
ν)
02:47, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment I support pending blurb changes . Apparently most of the bishops chose to remain in the Russian Orthodox Church (which is still the largest in the country) instead of switching to this new shady organization. Something tells me this has to be at least mentioned in the blurb. Also, the Ukrainians didn't really become independent. Those who switched, they chose to be under the Ecumential patriarchate of Constantinopole, instead of the Russian patriarchate located in Moscow
193.34.160.162 (
talk)
06:51, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Also, the article should be renamed.
Autocephaly by definition is "the status of a hierarchical Christian Church whose head bishop does not report to any higher-ranking bishop". This church is headed by a metropolitan bishop, not a patriarch, and that bishop reports to Constantinopole. The article therefore should be renamed to "Ukrainian Metropolitan Church" as it is not autocephalous. --
193.34.160.162 (
talk)
07:26, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Read the article
Autocephaly before you comment on the issue again. It's not a question of belief or self-profession, autocephaly is a thoroughly defined state in eastern orthodoxy, meaning that the church is fully independent from other orthodox churches and its head has the same status as others. This church is neither of these things, it's officialy subordinated to Constantinople, it's head is a metropolitan, who has a far lower status than a patriarch (think dukes vs kings), and it doesn't even call itself that way (both Constantinopole and these schismatics call themselves "The Ukrainian Orthodox church". And your post strikes me as a prime example of someone who has no idea what he's talking about, but who still tries to talk about issues he has no experise in as if he was not stupid. Goodbye. --
193.34.160.162 (
talk)
15:49, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Should this be withdrawn until both the autocephaly is granted in January, and a user with some expertise has expanded the articles?
Kingsif (
talk)
15:31, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support, this is a huge deal for the Russia-Ukraine relations, and for the
Eastern Orthodox Church more broadly. A blurb as proposed is OK, but we might also consider making this an "ongoing" item instead of or in addition to the blurb. There will certainly be important subsequent events. Now that the Unification Council created a new
Ukrainian Orthodox Church, it is likely that the
Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople will proceed with the official recognition of and
autocephaly for this Church. Other Eastern Orthodox churches are being pressed to take sides. Many of them have called for convening a pan-Orthodox Synod or
synaxis, and it may in fact happen. If, as seems likely, the new Ukrainian Orthodox Church attempts to take over some of the properties currently under the jurisdiction of ROC in Ukraine, there will certainly be a strong reaction from Russia, and further escalation of the crisis is possible. Etc. So the current schism crisis is far from over, and maybe making an "ongoing" item for a while is reasonable under the circumstances.
Nsk92 (
talk)
02:18, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment:
User:Ad Orientem has seemingly been the nearest we've had to an expert on this crisis, and he has not spoken yet. If and when he does speak, I expect to be following his lead unless he comes up with something very strange (I'm expecting he will either support now or suggest waiting until the Tomos is granted, which is currently expected to be on January 6, or perhaps he will suggest ongoing). I certainly think the crisis deserves to appear on ITN, but the question is when.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
06:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment: This rearrangement of churches does seem to be a major development in one of the world's largest religions (Orthodox Christianity), with some geopolitical aspects too. I support posting the story at some stage, but lack the expertise to know whether this is the right moment to do so. As with previous nominations, I struggle to understand
2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism; in part that's my own ignorance, but it also seems to be poorly written and frequently ungrammatical.
Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church is covered in orange-level tags, whilst the article on Epifaniy is mostly
proseline and says he's head of
Orthodox Church of Ukraine, which may or may not be a different church...
Modest Geniustalk14:58, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose This is just the preliminary administrative stuff. The tomos is expected to be delivered on January 6 (Christmas eve). That is when the
Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople (EP) is going to declare the creation of a new
exarchate under their jurisdiction that will be separate from the
Ukrainian Orthodox Church which is an autonomous part of the
Russian Orthodox Church. The term "autocephalous" is controversial since the new entity is not going to be an independent national church. It is going to be entirely under the jurisdiction of the EP. At the moment nobody in the Orthodox Church outside of the EP is recognizing this new entity. I would wait until the tomos is issued. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
20:34, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Weak support Pretty big story in the region, but the article is currently in a stubby state. Have my full support if significantly expanded. –
Ammarpad (
talk)
Question: am I right in thinking border skirmishes are frequent in (disputed) Kashmir? For example, I found
2018 Sunjuwan attack and
2018 Shopian firing incident, both of which had civilian casualties. Is there a reason to see the Pulwama event as more significant than the others that happened just this year, let alone in the history of the Kashmir conflict?
Modest Geniustalk15:03, 17 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: He died 12 Dec, but it became known only 14 Dec. Was underreferenced, but I tried. It should be longer, but I have no more time right now. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
21:08, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Oppose Not a top-level tournament, and by far the strongest team eligible to enter didn't even do so. To give an idea of the level here, the winners Vietnam are ranked #100 in the world.
Black Kite (talk)01:04, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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(Posted) Balangiga bells
Article:Balangiga bells (
talk·history·tag) Blurb: The Balangiga bells, taken by US Army soldiers from the Philippines in 1901 as war trophies, are repatriated after 117 years. (
Post) Alternative blurb: The Balangiga bells, taken by US Army soldiers from the Philippines during the
Philippine-American War as war trophies, are repatriated after 117 years. Alternative blurb II: The Balangiga bells, taken by US Army soldiers from the Philippines as war trophies after reprisals following the
Balangiga massacre, are repatriated after 117 years. News source(s):[26],
BBC Credits:
Copying this over from below, since many comments said wait till December 15, and it's happened. Keeping nominator as is, although I am supporting.
Banedon (
talk)
05:47, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Important event with tie-ins to historically significant incidents supported by a quality article. This is exactly the type of news one would expect to find on ITN. (
NorthernFalcon (
talk)
07:38, 15 December 2018 (UTC))reply
There was a rough consensus below to post this if the references are fixed, which I believe has happened. Happy to post when I see some more support. --Tone11:23, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose Not seeing this "in the news", and I'm unconvinced that an essay published at the Wisconsin VFW site qualifies as a
WP:RS (and I'm fairly certain that a web archive of a geocities site that had "reproduced" an article from the Philippine Daily Inquirer fails
WP:RS) -- but this isn't a hill I'm going to die on either. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
12:17, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Actually, after second-checking the references, there are no references from 15 December, all updates from media are a couple of days old. I'd like to see this improved before posting. --Tone18:21, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Strong support really well written article. In depth, comprehensive, well written. This is the kind of quality writing we should be filling the front page with. In terms of quality, this is easily the best article that has been nominated here for months. Great stuff.--
Jayron3221:52, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I did, STSC revered my sps tags around the VFW essay (which is the foundation for most of the first half of the article) and like I said, not a hill I plan to die on. None of it is a BLP issue so ... whatever ... post this "very significant" return of some church bells. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
00:23, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support, the preceding debate
[27][28][29] and the formal announcement of the decision to return the bells on 14 November
[30][31] made headlines too. It's a "nice culmination" to hear that they're actually restituted now.
Wakari07 (
talk)
00:17, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Meh. The marbles can be returned one day, once. Just like this. Rowing though, it goes on until the ice caps melt. Love the fact though that the champion of US centrism brings out a British example. The same person who said US midterm elections are not notable, and have shoved the almighty Boat Race (Title Caps!) down our throats year after year suggested any returns such as this should be Elgin marbles territory. Unbelievable.
Howard the Duck (
talk)
00:57, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Strong support - It's ITN-worthy news that marks the end of the saga for 117 years. Even today(Sunday 16 Dec) there're plenty of news about the bells.
STSC (
talk)
11:16, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
@
Ihcoyc: The relavent section of the guideline says that The event is current, and not stale relative to other events. Singular events that took place more than seven days prior to their nomination are considered stale, as well as any event that is older than the oldest entry in the current "In the News" box. Recent Deaths are considered separate from standard blurbs for this purpose. For purposes of determining timing and staleness, the date is considered when the event was first reported in reliable sources. This will often be the same day as the event itself, but sometimes it can be some time later, such as would be the reporting of scientific discoveries, in which the work has been done months in the past, but results are published in a reliable source some months later. (bolding added) so I think this would be okay. I haven't look at the article yet, so no comment about supporting or opposing. --
DannyS712 (
talk)
03:31, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Two Israeli soldiers are killed and two others seriously wounded after a shooting at a bus stop in the Jewish settlement of
Giv'at Asaf,
West Bank.
(CNN)
A knife-wielding Palestinian assailant is shot dead in
Jerusalem's Old City, after lightly injuring two police officers by stabbing them.
(Al Jazeera)
Chérif Chekatt, the perpetrator of an attack in
Strasbourg, France, two days ago, which killed two and wounded 14, is found and killed by French police.
(BBC)
A Frenchman originally from
Afghanistan who was wounded and left brain-dead from the attack dies from his injuries.
(Euronews)
A UN-brokered
ceasefire is agreed upon between the two warring factions in
Al Hudaydah,
Yemen. Troops from both sides will withdraw from the port city within three weeks to allow humanitarian aid coming into the country, which has been plagued by war and
famine.
(The Guardian)
Arts and culture
YouTube Rewind 2018 becomes the most disliked YouTube video of all time, with well over 10 million dislikes, achieving the feat in a mere seven days.
(Indystar)
Chinese state media reports a second
Canadian national, Michael Spavor, has been detained on suspicion of endangering state security, while the China foreign ministry say two Canadian nationals are detained in the country. The Spavor investigation follows the detention of former Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig on December 10 and Canada's December 1 arrest of
Huawei executive
Meng Wanzhou.
(Reuters)(Reuters)
A tribunal in
Colombia disqualifies the Brazilian multinational corporation
Odebrecht from operating in the country for 10 years amid ongoing investigations against the company for inciting corruption.
(El Tiempo)
Iranian political activist
Vahid Sayadi Nasiri, who was jailed for his messages on social media, dies after spending 60 days on
hunger strike. He was accused of insulting Supreme Leader
Ali Khamenei.
(BBC)
Fake bomb threats are sent to dozens of businesses around Canada and the U.S., demanding
ransoms in
bitcoin. Some of the threats forced evacuations.
(The Independent)
It is reported that a German journalist was kidnapped and imprisoned by the Venezuelan government three weeks ago, with diplomats from both nations denied to see him.
(BBC)
Virgin Galactic's
SpaceShipTwo successfully completes its fourth powered test flight with
VSS Unity and reaches space at an altitude of 82.7 km (51.4 mi) but does not breach the 100 km (62 mi)
Karman Line.
(BBC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose While I know there were some evacuations and the like, the threats were not taken seriously at the end of the day. --
Masem (
t)
15:38, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: Pell is now the highest-ranking church official ever convicted of a sexual offense. This case has attracted worldwide attention, despite a gag order from an Australian court. Calidum06:55, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support -
Was nominated in 2017, and speedily-closed on the grounds that we wait for convictions. That has now occurred, the article is in good shape in relation to referencing, and the significance (highest-ranking church official to be convicted, as stated by the nominator), in my view merits posting.
Stormy clouds (
talk)
14:50, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Legally no Australian editor can add information to the article, and the conviction cannot be viewed on the main page in Australia, so as not to predujice the second trial in March. But this is the internet.
Stephen21:00, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment scrolling through headlines I don't see any mention of it, and the only reason this sexual predator is significant is because he's a high ranking leader of a popular private club. It's a long article, and before posting this to the MP it should be scrutinized for BLP issues and bad refs. I won't be doing that because I don't care about the subject. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
00:31, 16 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Nominator's comments: Not convinced of this one myself but putting it up for discussion for a wider view. The boundary is fairly arbitrary and it has only crossed the American-defined boundary which is lower than the
Kármán line, but it is still a milestone in manned spaceflight -
Dumelow (
talk)
17:30, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak support The ambiguity in the "space border" is between NASA/USAFs 50 miles and the FAI's 62 miles, but as the Verge article above points out, the FAI may be reconsidering this. For all purposes, this is a critical point, with the next major milestone I would expect to see at ITN is when it makes its first passenger-carrying flight, which is several years down the road. --
Masem (
t)
18:48, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support As the comment and Masem say, there are few realistic "milestones" in civilian spaceflight, and this is certainly one of them (to put it in other words, a plane went to space). Quite significant.
Kingsif (
talk)
18:55, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Didn't even make it to space. Come back when they exceed 100 km, preferably with paying passengers on board. For the avoidance of doubt, none of these events qualify for ITNR as Virgin Galactic does not plan orbital flights, only suborbital.
Modest Geniustalk11:37, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose Insufficient coverage of the subject to meet minimum standards IMO. There's a single sentence covering his 20-year career as a judge, and in general there's more details about his friends in the article and what his father/sister did compared to his legal career. Would be willing to support with a quality paragraph or two about his judicial career. SpencerT•C15:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Hi
Spencer, thanks for the feedback. I have added some further information from the obituaries relating to his judicial career and personal life. Would you mind taking another look? -
Dumelow (
talk)
22:18, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
If a photograph of the exact loco was available on Commons, it would have been used. As there wasn't, quality of photo was the overriding factor.
Mjroots (
talk)
15:27, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Support this is an utterly insignificant disaster story with a barely above orphaned barely above stub article that is all but guaranteed to be abandoned once this drops out of the headlines (like
Kuneru train derailment). It is, however, in the news, so why not. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
16:58, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article:Death of Grace Millane (
talk·history·tag) Recent deaths nomination Blurb: Grace Millane was a British tourist whose disappearance in Auckland, New Zealand, in December 2018 received international attention. A 26 year old man was charged with her murder on 8 December, and her body was found in a nearby forest park the following day. (
Post) News source(s):[34] Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The thing is, not only is "globally notable" not a requirement for any ITN nomination, but for
WP:ITN/DC the only "notability" requirements are
WP:N. There is even a banner about that in the nomination template. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
11:58, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment I don't know if this qualifies for RD since she doesn't have a standalone article (we did RD for Alfie Evans). If it's a blurb you want, you should change the template type please. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
12:00, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support RD - The subject,
Grace Millane, appears to have become a stand-alone article. Although one could make the argument that this person is notable only for their death, that rationale to oppose has been rejected on ITN multiple times.--
WaltCip (
talk)
12:18, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Two police officers are injured after a man throws a
grenade at them at a shopping centre in
Nazran,
Ingushetia,
Russia. The attacker and his accomplice are later shot dead.
(Xinhuanet)
Michael Cohen, the former lawyer of
U.S. PresidentDonald Trump, is sentenced to three years in prison for making illegal hush money payments to two women with whom Trump allegedly had affairs, and a concurrent sentence of two months for making false statements to
Congress about a possible Trump Tower deal in
Russia.
(South China Morning Post)
A gunman kills two people and injures 14 others in a mass shooting in
Strasbourg,
France, during the annual
Christmas market. The shooter flees the scene but is identified by police as a known extremist. The incident is being treated as an act of terrorism.
(BBC)(The Daily Telegraph)(The Guardian)
Disasters and accidents
Five
U.S. Marines who were missing after two aircraft collided mid-air off the coast of
Japan on December 6 are declared dead.
(The Japan Times)
The lawyers of
Bill Cosby file a list of nearly a dozen alleged trial errors as they appeal his sexual assault conviction and three-to-10-year prison term.
(CBS News)
Meng Wanzhou, CFO of Huawei who was arrested in Canada for an
extradition request from the United States for alleged US sanction violation against Iran, is granted bail with restrictions by a
Canadian judge.
(CBC)
International Crisis Group confirm one of it's worker Michael Kovrig is detained in People's Republic of China. Kovrig is a former Canadian diplomat and his detainment come after the China warned Canada of severe consequences if Meng was not released.
(reuters)
Did it get nominated, was the page good, how intense was the attack coverage? This attack was also two weeks before Christmas at a very famous Christmas market, which adds some weight. More people were killed in a shooting in Brazil on this same day, but the discussion below refers to how it's diminished because of attacks in Brazil being frequent, minimal international coverage, and a stub article.
Kingsif (
talk)
01:08, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Reading that and the article, I'd personally weak support it now, because since the time it has been expanded and is more clearly terrorist-inspired. At the time the article was weak, and it looked like a rampage attack in an isolated area with few implications. The perception is the difference, really - shooting wildly into a famous Christmas market is just more "newsworthy" in public opinion, number of deaths irrelevant. That nom also mentions the Ontario attack, which had no fatalities, but I think it got a lot of support - because of how the Canadians pushed it into the world news and how rare attacks in Canada are. Comparisons need careful consideration of differences as well as similarities.
Kingsif (
talk)
19:27, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose this was in the news two days ago when it happened, it's not really anymore. Islamic extremist violence in Europe is becoming almost as common as Christian extremist violence in the USA. The article is pretty good though, I won't erect a wall of text if it's posted. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
03:03, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
If the suspect is captured, we can update the blurb. If they are still at large and the article is getting regular updates when it's about to expire off, it can drop into ongoing. That's been working well for us I think. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
11:41, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Post-posting comment – The event itself has become, alas, not uncommon in Western and Central Europe, and the toll of victims is comparatively small. On that basis, it doesn't seem quite up to ITN. However, given a manhunt actively involving two countries, it's OK in ITN – though if the perp isn't found soon we might bump it into Ongoing.Sca (
talk)
14:33, 13 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Post-posting oppose. We can't post every shooting with three deaths in ITN. I would not have supported this even when the suspect was at large; now they've been caught I'm even more opposed. No reason to treat this any differently to the shooting in Brazil below.
Modest Geniustalk11:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
That's true, but it's also entirely irrelevant. We don't post items by counting the number of deaths. We post items based on quality of the article and whether or not it is something people have heard/read about in the news. There are lots of things where more people have died that we don't have quality articles. We will continue to not post those. Also, we will continue to not post things where more people have died where the story has not been covered, in the proper way, by the proper news sources. --
Jayron3211:57, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I agree that death toll is not the deciding factor, but it isn't 'entirely irrelevant' either. The best article in the world won't make up for an insignificant event that barely passes GNG. Coverage in the mainstream media is not a proxy for encyclopaedic value, as the tabloid rumour-mill and sports pages demonstrate. A quality update and coverage in the media are both necessary but not sufficient.
Modest Geniustalk12:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Except the coverage of this story is neither a) in tabloid news or b) in sports pages. What we're using to establish news coverage here is high quality sources. --
Jayron3216:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Agreed, though there are a lot of news stories still being produced, the manhunt (a notable part) is over, and the article itself is attracting a lot of edits but mostly conflicts over whether to categorise it as Islamist terror or not.
Kingsif (
talk)
12:48, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Updated I freelanced a bit to try to merge the original blurb with the new information. I hope that works. Neither of the altblurbs was working for me. --
Jayron3216:18, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
OK, though with the pic. it looks a bit long. Could be shortened by deleting "and injured a dozen others," which isn't essential. Just a suggestion.
Sca (
talk)
17:49, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Sitting Deputy Minister of Defence in Namibia. I have overhauled the article, it remains a little on the short side but I will look to expand if any new information comes in the obituaries -
Dumelow (
talk)
16:22, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose we're not linking to a one sentence stub on the main page, and this random act of violence is no where near significant enough to post without a decent article. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
22:34, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose it's not great, but it's hardly a blip when one considers shootings in Brazil (I could link a website which shows such assaults as a daily event), so not ITN-worthy.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
22:47, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
This was not an "assault" or a "gang dispute". A man entered in the cathedral of one of the country's largest cities during a mass and killed the faithful. This is not a case of urban violence.
Chronus (
talk)
23:18, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Wait for more details If this turns out to be some kind of terrorist attack or motivated out of religious hatred I would likely support. But large scale shootings in Brazil are too common otherwise. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
00:06, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Again, it was not a dispute between criminal factions or a case of robbery. This type of mass shooting is more common in countries like the United States.
Chronus (
talk)
00:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Gun murders are sadly a frequent occurrence in Brazil. There's no reason to single out this one; being in a cathedral does not make it more important than any other shooting. This is barely notable enough to qualify for an article.
Modest Geniustalk13:22, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment This kind of shooting is not even close to be common in Brazil. So, it's pretty much notable, however, the article is still a stub.--
SirEdimon (
talk)
06:45, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article:Balangiga bells (
talk·history·tag) Blurb: The Balangiga bells, taken by US Army soldiers from the Philippines in 1901 as war trophies, are repatriated after 117 years. (
Post) Alternative blurb: The Balangiga bells, taken by US Army soldiers from the Philippines during the
Philippine-American War as war trophies, are repatriated after 117 years. Alternative blurb II: The Balangiga bells, taken by US Army soldiers from the Philippines as war trophies after reprisals following the
Balangiga massacre, are repatriated after 117 years. News source(s):NBC,
Stars and Stripes,
ABS-CBN Credits:
Comment - Interesting yes, but agree with article quality. "...killing an estimated 48 and wounding 22 of the 78 men of the unit, with only four escaping unhurt" is not very encyclopedic. If four were uninjured and 22 wounded then the "estimated 48" must have been 52.
Moriori (
talk)
00:05, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
That reinforces my article quality point. If we know four soldiers were MIA we should say so. And get rid of that awful "estimated".
Moriori (
talk) 20:52, 12 December 2018 (UTC) Hold the bus, I see someone has added it.
Moriori (
talk)
20:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The massacre happened in 1901 and is therefore no longer news. What's news is the United States return of the bells that they looted as war booty, sent to Wyoming and South Korea, was petitioned by several Philippine governments for its return, and was sent to Manila yesterday, 117 years after it was taken away. That said...
Howard the Duck (
talk)
01:35, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I don't see any major quality issue with Balangiga Bells. If you spotted any individual ref error, you should have tagged them with inline tags.
STSC (
talk)
16:04, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Thirty-three people are hospitalized in
Pavia,
Lombardy,
Italy, after
pepper spray was fired inside the gym of a school. This is the second pepper spray-related incident in the country in three days. On 8 December, six people died when someone fired the spray inside a nightclub, causing a
stampede.
(Il Messaggero)
Russell Bishop is convicted of
the murder of Karen Hadaway and Nicola Fellows. He had been tried and found not guilty of the crimes in 1987, but the acquittal was quashed as new evidence in the form of DNA was now available. Bishop had been convicted in December 1990 of the abduction, indecent assault and attempted murder of a seven-year-old girl in February of that year.
(The Guardian)
Nissan, the company's former chairman
Carlos Ghosn, and an aide are indicted on charges that Ghosn underreported about ¥5 billion ($44.5 million) of his income. Ghosn's arrest warrant is renewed.
(Kyodo News)
French PresidentEmmanuel Macron addresses the country following the yellow vests protests. While refusing to reinstate a
wealth tax or back down on the current reform agenda, he promises an increase to the
minimum wage and to remove some taxes on low income earners.
(Reuters)
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Designed the first computer-driven word processor, died on the 8th but not reported until the 10th. Article is mostly good but a few more citations are needed.[
Thryduulf (
talk)
21:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. I added some references and cleaned up all cn tags. My impression is that the article is in sufficiently good shape now, but someone more experienced with RD should take a look.
Nsk92 (
talk)
16:07, 14 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Support As I was writing my blurb, I did point out that we posted when Voy 1 was confirmed to have crossed the threshold. --
Masem (
t)
16:14, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment: There is no update to the target article as yet. It currently states: "the spacecraft may instead reach interstellar space sometime in 2019" -
Dumelow (
talk)
16:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support on notability, oppose on quality. Large sections of entirely unsourced prose (the "Encounter with Uranus" section has no sources and is orange-tagged as such, "Encounter with Neptune" is mostly unsourced). Not ready for the Main Page as it stands.
Black Kite (talk)19:31, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Lots of things we post (basically everything in ITNR) are "always going to happen". Doesn't mean it's not rare or notable. We're not in contact with either of the Pioneer, and New Horizons was only launched in 2006 (compared to 1977 of the Voyagers) and is slower. This will literally not happen again with any certainty for another few decades. --
KTC (
talk)
22:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It's not fair to say that everything in ITNR are "always going to happen". For example take the Football World Cup. The event itself might be "always going to happen", but a particular country winning is not, and that is what's being posted.
Banedon (
talk)
23:27, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose on the references issue only. The Uranus section is entirely lacking in refs, and the Neptune section is about 1/2 unreferenced. Fix those two things, and this is fine for posting. --
Jayron3205:08, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Subject to sourcings/improvements. Regardless if it is second or not, this is pretty mind-blowing, and is up there with the pinnacle of human achievement, along with the wheel, the Internet and the Corby trouser press. LugnutsFire Walk with Me12:15, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Good job! Now we only need some work on the Jupiter and Neptune sections, and this will be in a decent shape to post. --Tone13:16, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I'll support any man-made object leaving the Heliosphere except objects kicked into space by Lionel Messi (we post too many soccer records already). --
LaserLegs (
talk)
22:35, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
No problem! While this is Wikipedia, NASA's style guide also calls for usage of terms such as crewed/unscrewed or human spaceflight or piloted/unpiloted or robotic, etc. as opposed to manned/unmanned etc. The only exception NASA gives is if a historical program or a building specifically said/says "manned" in its official name.[1] I think it can be similarly applied and it appears that Wikipedia's Manual of Style has something on this, too! I thought there was, but I didn't know where to look. Thank you for finding it for me. -
TenorTwelve (
talk)
04:35, 15 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Weak oppose once again, this is realistically what we'd consider a stub. What's there is fine, but if that's all we have to say I don't think it's enough right now.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
22:30, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Beyond being an ITNR and promoting geographic diversity, this final has been one of the top sports stories of the year due to the delays/change of venue for the second leg. SounderBruce22:03, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support – Article seems to have been updated after the match with the latest developments. Clearly a very notable game.
MX (
✉ •
✎)
22:47, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose No importance. We shouldn't post every single league from every end of the world to the ITN, otherwise the ITN would be flooded with sports news and not much else.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
23:43, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
As an ITNR item, the event's merits should not be discussed here, only the content and worthiness of the article in its current state. Besides that, this is the second-largest continental club competition by revenue/viewership, eclipsing a lot of American sports championships, so perhaps you should check your biases before declaring it to be of no importance. SounderBruce23:50, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I am pretty sure there's no rule against re-starting a discussion about why this particular item got into the ITNR in the first place. Which is exactly what I had done.
Not ready. This should definitely be posted per ITNR, but there's no prose summary of the matches. Lots of material on the incidents surrounding the event doesn't make up for having no description of the actual sporting contests. Needs at least a paragraph each of fully-referenced prose on both legs.
Modest Geniustalk00:34, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment I've fixed the citation needed stuff, and the tenses, but it does need a prose summary of the matches. I haven't got time to do this now, but will do later if no-one else has.
Black Kite (talk)11:20, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It got plenty of coverage here in the UK, at least for the second leg - shown live on TV, the national newspapers had articles before and after the game etc. Regardless, it's on ITNR so significance is already established.
Modest Geniustalk15:06, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Some writeup/recap on the final matches should be included. Those opposing on importance need to take that to ITNR. --
Masem (
t)
16:34, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
125,000 people demonstrate across
France, according to the
Minister of the Interior, with about 89,000 police officers on duty. 1,385 people are detained. Tear gas and pepper spray are used against the protesters and 135 people are injured.
(Al Jazeera)(CBC)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Nominator's comments: Atlanta United FC wins the MLS cup in only their second season. Top of field soccer tournament in the worlds third largest country. Article has prose updates, referenced.
LaserLegs (
talk)
13:03, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. We already post 7 football stories each year (per
WP:ITNR), and this is not one of the top trophies in the sport. MLS is somewhere around the 10th best domestic league. The
last time this was discussed MLS wasn't even mentioned as a possibility for a domestic league, and LaserLegs themselves felt we already over-represented the topic. Just not important enough.
Modest Geniustalk16:56, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose I generally don't support posting even the conclusion of the top domestic leagues that garner a lot more attention worldwide than the MLS. This is perhaps a
good-faith nomination far from being sufficiently notable for posting.--
Kiril Simeonovski (
talk)
18:51, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose MLS is not at the level where it warrants ITNR coverage, unfortunately. It will take a few years of clear dominance at the continental level and domestically when competing with other sports leagues before it should be considered. SounderBruce19:04, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. We cannot post the conclusion of every domestic sports league in every country (we'd post little else), and so we have to draw the line somewhere. For me that means we should only post the most significant domestic leagues in the most significant sports. While football (soccer) is clearly one of the internationally most significant sports, MLS is not in the top tier of domestic football leagues (it's third tier at best) and it's not in the top tier of US domestic sports leagues (it's second tier at best) so it doesn't make the cut.
Thryduulf (
talk)
19:15, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - MLS isn't even arguably the best soccer league in North America, nor is it at the tier of other leagues that are on ITN:R as per other commenters. --
PlasmaTwa220:35, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose I think we've got the balance about right at the moment on ITNR football stories. Given that we don't post the results of leagues that are clearly higher tier than MLS (i.e.
Brazil Série A, broadcast in half the countries of world,
Serie A or
Ligue 1), this is clearly a non-runner.
Black Kite (talk)20:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment my disdain for soccer is known to a few -- I live in Atlanta which is how I learned about it this year, and the nom is indeed good faith. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
20:55, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - much and all as my inner football aficionado loves Atlanta's rise to prominence, the MLS is just simply not on the same level as any of the major European leagues, in terms of following or quality, (I would personally have France, Portugal, Netherlands, and Russia ahead of it), and is far behind the size and scope of its competing American leagues. The league is certainly growing, but it is not big enough for ITN yet. Besides, if you are sick of European football, the Copa Libertadores wraps up today too.
Stormy clouds (
talk)
21:37, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
They filled that stadium to capacity too, which really shocked me considering we're in the deep south. Doomed as this nom is, I hope it gets left open a bit longer so I know what the objections will be going in to next year. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
21:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
This is the first division of the world's most popular sport in the most populous English speaking country. If you can't be bothered to inform yourself on the subject being discussed, stay out of the conversation.
ghost01:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Russian human rights activist. I am going to try format the refs and add inline citations for the awards.
Dumelow (
talk)
23:10, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I've dealt with the citations and added a bit about her meeting with Putin for her 90th birthday. Feel free to expand on this if you have the sources -
Dumelow (
talk)
23:58, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Support - notable dissident. Article is fully referenced, but appears incomplete as it has no information before 1968, when she was already 41. -
Zanhe (
talk)
02:08, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Especially if the lead can be tweaked to remove or rephrase "one of the last Soviet dissidents still active in modern Russia" which seems like an odd thing to write about a deceased person.
Yakikaki (
talk)
18:35, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support The lead should not be tweaked: it's well-sourced, objective and describes an exceptional personality. That "eulogy" was written in 2004, when she was alive. There's a bit more info on her life before 1968 in the AP article, reference #3.
Wakari07 (
talk)
19:39, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I think
Yakikaki's concern was the "still active" wording (and it's mine too). Perhaps just "active" or qualifying it with a date "at the time of her death was one of the last..." or "described in 2004 as one of..." or something like that. To me the "still" implies a continuing action, which cannot be the case now she has died.
Thryduulf (
talk)
19:51, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
American attorney
Robert Mueller is set to reveal more details about the Special Counsel investigation as he faces court deadlines in the cases of
two men who worked closely with
Donald Trump.
(Huffington Post)
Jamaican reggae artist
Buju Banton (Mark Anthony Myrie) is released from a U.S. prison and deported back to
Jamaica, after serving 7 years of a 10-year drug charge conviction.
(Tampa Bay Times)
Huawei CFO
Meng Wanzhou attends a bail hearing in
Vancouver while she awaits extradition to the United States. She is charged by Canadian and American prosecutors with conspiracy to defraud multiple financial institutions in order to commit evasion of
United States sanctions against Iran so as to conduct business with
Iran.
(Reuters)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
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Nominator's comments: Pretty large development, considering Merkel was party leader for 18 years until this happened, which may warrant a blurb. Article(s) are of sufficient quality as well.
Kirbanzo (
talk)
21:49, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I don't think so. If election of a head of a major party (which is, you know, isn't even a governmental post) in a 80-something million country qualifies for the ITN, I don't know how elections of actual governors in 100- and 200- million provinces across India and China should not. And that's a very slippery slope. Oppose.Openlydialectic (
talk)
22:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose Obviously if she had replaced Merkel as Chancellor, that would be ITN/R, but she hasn't, she's only replaced her as the head of the CDU. The next election for Chancellor isn't until 2021.
Black Kite (talk)00:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment In the 69 years that germany has their own government the
CDU was 49 years of it in power as the ruling party. In these 49 years the chairman of the CDU has always been the cancellor until today. Its safe to say that the party voted today its cancellor candidate for the
Next German federal election, as Angela Merkel resigns with the end of the current legislative period in 2021. Opinion If there is not any political news for saturday that is more history-laden than the
CDU election, there is not much against it to show this news at the main page for one day.
LennBr (
talk)
00:59, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Actually that's all rather
WP:CRYSTAL.
AKK could be
Chancellor even before the next election if
Merkel retires and/or is forced out, tho even that isn't guaranteed given that CDU+CSU have no majority in
Parliament. It is NOT 'safe to say that the party voted today its Chancellor candidate for the
Next German federal election' (which is not due until 2021) - she could easily be replaced if she does poorly in opinion polls, or gets caught up in some scandal, or falls ill (or dies), or whatever - and in 1980 the Chancellor candidate for the right was
CSU leader
Franz Josef Strauss, not
CDU leader
Helmut Kohl, and this could happen again, especially if AKK's similarity to Merkel comes to be seen as an electoral liability, and/or if the CSU leader is seen as better placed to prevent CDU/CSU voters switching to the
AfD. And it's not easy to win an election after your party has been in office for 16 years and your previous leader is retiring because voters seem tired of her and you are seen as very similar to her, so being CDU/CSU Chancellor candidate may not mean all that much in 2021. (Of course this is arguably also all a bit
WP:CRYSTAL on my part, but then somebody seemingly ought to try to point out some of the apparent inaccuracies in the previous comment).
Tlhslobus (
talk)
05:14, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It's not even clear that it is important for the EU unless and until she becomes Chancellor (and even then it should be rather trivial for the EU compared to things like Brexit (let alone Climate change, etc)).
Tlhslobus (
talk)
05:38, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
In a general sense, high-level German political change is important to the EU, as Germany is the EU's most populous state and its leading economy. But yes, if she were to become Kanzlerin that would be blurbable.
Sca (
talk)
14:25, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. If/when she replaces Merkel as Chancellor of Germany, then I will support a blurb. Unless & until that happens, this is just internal leadership of one political party.
Modest Geniustalk00:42, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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A car bomb explodes near a police post in
Chabahar,
Iran. Two police officers are pronounced dead and around 40 people were wounded in the attack. Islamic militant group
Ansar Al-Furqan claims responsibility. Iran accuses the perpetrators of being "foreign-backed terrorists".
(Middle East Eye)
The French police union Vigi calls on police officers to begin an indefinite strike on December 8 and join anti-government protesters, noting that "a majority of the French continue to back the movement".
(Sputnik News)
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Oppose - if this had been a school shooting, or a bombing elsewhere in the general region it almost certainly wouldn't pass.
Juxlos (
talk)
13:11, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I mean, it's a bad thing and all, yes, but if a school shooting killed a single digit number in the US it has a 90% chance of failing ITN. Bombings in Kabul don't even get nominated half the time.
Juxlos (
talk)
18:05, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose terrorist attacks in Iran are not nearly as common as they are in the over-represented failed state of Pakistan, but the article is a little bit short even for the barely-above-stub standard we've come to accept for our usual disaster porn articles. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
20:16, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It's an ongoing event, by passing the time, information will be collected, subsequently article will include more deteils.Any way if it is neccesary, I would ask
Mhhossein to give it try and provide more information into the article.
Saff V. (
talk)
06:42, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Hi, sorry for the belated response. I'll add some more data to the article. But for now, I should say that the toll is not accurate. Most of the sources, are saying at least 2 people were killed, while the article is showing something else.--
Mhhosseintalk18:31, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - While terrorist attacks are not that common in Iran, 3 deaths (including the perpetrator) is not the kind of death toll that makes it to ITN.
Fitzcarmalan (
talk)
10:56, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose per
WP:NOTPROPAGANDA. Having an article about this is legitimately encyclopedic, but giving it front-page publicity tends to work as (presumably unwitting) propaganda for the terrorist cause - they are likely to see making a fairly widely-viewed Western front page as a success, which may then encourage them to kill more innocent people, which is not what Wikipedia and ITN is supposed to be doing (per
WP:IAR and
WP:5P5 if necessary if a supporting rule is needed). In practice, we probably can't avoid posting all such incidents, but we probably need to be very reluctant to do so, and especially when there are few deaths, and when it is in a non-Western country, as posting on our front page in either of these cases then in practice risks giving up to several days of additional free publicity to an incident that is no longer getting any other significant publicity elsewhere in the West.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
16:09, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: First time ever nomination of this event or any video game award ceremony in general. The article's in a good shape, and so are the two video game ones. The one about the God of War is actually a
Good Article, and the Red Dead is in the process of becoming one. About time we start putting the gaming Oscars in the ITN.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
07:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Wait This isn't really a support or oppose opinion. Merely that, with something like this, let's wait for a full consensus to develop, otherwise I can well see it devolving into a pull or not pull debate if it's put up too quickly.
88.215.17.228 (
talk)
09:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The Video Game Awards bore out from the Spike Video Game Awards which started in 2003. Same core organizer but who wanted to get from Spike TV over commercialism. --
Masem (
t)
11:00, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
@
WaltCip: I am pretty sure that ITN exist so that people could provide arguments for and against their position, and not just state "this is not important" or "I do not see this as being particularly notable in the grand scheme of ITN". Also, since you're saying this, do I understand that right that you then do consider various horse racing events and other local Canadian hockey championships - that we do post here - to be "important" in "the grand scheme of things"?
Openlydialectic (
talk)
22:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I've stated my position. This is not notable. There's nothing to establish its notability as an award show in comparison to other gaming award shows.--
WaltCip (
talk)
00:47, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
No, you just baselessly made a vote without explaining why you voted in a way that you did, which goes against the
WP:NOTVOTE rule. Good luck.
We post several film awards, I'd be ok with several game awards which are both in the news and have a quality update. We've not had that problem yet, IIRC this is the first game award of any sort nominated of any sort. One reason I'm supporting this is I actually saw it "in the news". --
LaserLegs (
talk)
14:57, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Golden Joysticks are fully audience voted, so generally not top. Whereas the weight difference between this, BAFTA, and GDCA -- this tends to get the on the spot coverage in gaming RSes, while the others get noticed after said events, despite said events also being broadcast/streamed live. Its a perception issue. --
Masem (
t)
15:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It could also be an advertising issue. A lot of companies means a lot of money to throw around. I know the argument goes that we can't deny an item for not being on ITN/R, but there needs to be at least a consensus first that this particular event is noteworthy given we haven't posted it before, because honestly, as a gamer, this is the first I've heard of it.--
WaltCip (
talk)
18:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Completely reasonable, and if you look at the ceremony itself, 50% of it was just promos for new games. That said, the voting jury for the bulk of the awards (not the esports ones) are media outlets, listed here :
[38], so I don't see this specific awards as commercially driven. In the case of the GDCA ones, that's run and organized by the industry's trade group so there's a tiny bit of nepotism there. --
Masem (
t)
20:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose There's a potential fallacy here of saying we post awards shows for movies, so not posting for games would be bias (especially given historical disdain for games as an art). The Oscars carry serious juice in Hollywood. Every physicist knows their Nobel winners. There's no evidence that artists or consumers view these as important.
ghost12:59, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support notability for me comes from the industry heavies who hosted and attended the event. Article is as good as any other awards article, is well referenced, and has some prose. We post all kinds of obscure literary, mathematics, architecture, and poetry awards, we should probably post things which do have interest to a
general audience like film, television, music and video games. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
20:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak Support. Going to nitpick the X of Y statement in the nom and point out for the people not familiar with this awards show that it is more like
The People’s Choice Awards than the
Oscars due to the voting method. The Oscars and similar award shows in its vein votes using a professional committee, whereas this award show uses a combination of a voting jury comprised of professionals (90% weight) + public polling (10% weight with some additional wackiness based on social media sharing). While it has become a significantly more popular event over the years, I wouldn’t say this is a prestigious Oscar/
Emmys/
Tony Awards/
Grammy – style event. All that said, I think this event has grown just enough over the years to have enough notability, general news coverage, and sufficient article quality for ITN.
ZettaComposer (
talk)
15:12, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose Only existed for five years; no reason given why this should be more important than the other events mentioned above; article contains practically no content apart from which new games were advertised at the event, and a list of results. Since there are a number of these awards, it would probably be useful to have a discussion about which are the most notable. If one particular award is seen as the "gaming Oscars", then fine - go for it. But AFAICS this is just another run-of-the-mill awards ceremony.
Black Kite (talk)15:19, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Want to re-stress that before 2014, this event effectively was the
Spike Video Game Awards, which started in 2003. There was a falling out between Geoff Keighley, the guy that organizes this, and Spike TV, who wanted entertainment value, so Keighley broke off and made a completely new awards show but based on the same principles that he ran Spike VGAs with. That lineage is recognized in the industry, it just doesn't show up easily on a quick pass of our WP coverage (but its there, I know I've wrote about it). --
Masem (
t)
20:27, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - It's already been called "the Oscar of video games" actually, both by players, game creators and specialist and generalist press. The event is young, yes, but grown dramatically, almost five times the number of viewers compared to the first edition and broadcast all over the globe. To this we add live musical performances and guests arrived from multiple branch of entertainment. It does not seem so absurd to have it in ITN.
Lone Internaut (
talk)
17:03, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Support in principle having Gaming Awards at ITN as an important (despite arguably still being a relatively new) economic, social and cultural phenomenon, despite my not being sufficiently interested to know or care whether these particular awards are the right ones to post. Although I have very little personal interest in video-games myself, some of the opposition expressed here reminds me of the misguided contempt by my ill-informed and complacent 'betters' for things like pop music and Science Fiction which I encountered when young (and which, incidentally, probably did me and others quite a bit of harm at the time in several different ways, but much of it to do with keeping us ill-informed, which is precisely what Wikipedia is meant to combat).
Tlhslobus (
talk)
17:29, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Which opposition are you referring to? I don't see any comment that video game awards are
ig-nobel per se, just that THIS event has not demonstrated notability.
ghost19:12, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
In answer to your question, ghost, it was a (possibly mistaken) impression I got from reading the comments at the time. Perhaps unwisely, I didn't go looking for precise instances, either then or now, to try to minimize the risk that going into specifics might cause individual editors to take it personally and/or get me involved in a debate which I wasn't (and amn't) interested in having.
Tlhslobus (
talk)
16:41, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
And having had a further look at it, I notice that there is often a significant difference between the impression conveyed by somebody's initial comment and the more nuanced impression conveyed once opponents have forced them to clarify their position (although this is not the case with regard to your own carefully-nuanced initial position). Quite likely much the same could also have been said about attitudes to things like pop music and Science Fiction when I was young, if such attitudes had been expressed on a forum such as this, had such a forum been available at the time. Incidentally much the same seems actually also true of the
Ig Nobel Prize mentioned by you in your question - it seemingly began as ridicule pure and simple, but is now at least officially the more nuanced 'research that first makes you laugh, and then makes you think' (or some similar wording, which presumably among other things conveniently allows its organizers to deny all sorts of criticisms, such as that such a prize would have been used to ridicule Copernicus and Darwin in their day, etc).
Tlhslobus (
talk)
17:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
And those said by Dissident are just few, there are others all around the world in foreign language for example. I mean, hard to say TGA didn't have resonance.
Lone Internaut (
talk)
20:18, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support: Nowadays the video game industry is much bigger than the film or music industry. Yet we cover all kinds of awards of the latter two, but barely of the video games. It's about time to change that. --
Horst-schlaemma (
talk)
19:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose – The The Game Awards seem to hold a relatively contentious role in the video game industry, moreso than the other awards frequently posted on the front page. I would prefer not to present them over other gaming awards, like the aforementioned
Golden Joystick Awards,
BAFTA Game Awards, or
Game Developers Choice Awards. Though The Game Awards try to present themselves as the main award ceremony for video games, I do not believed they have reached that status yet. ~
Maplestrip/Mable (
chat)
22:02, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
@
Maplestrip: I think you just have to be immersed into the industry to know how small these awards are. I wish they announced their viewership numbers, but apparently only The Game Awards do.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
22:07, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
These three are certainly less popular, but they are longer-running and more respected. I do not entirely know what the ITN inclusion criteria is for award ceremonies. ~
Maplestrip/Mable (
chat)
22:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
>they are more respected. I'd disagree. I wish there's a way to verify respectability, but I don't think there is. The only thing I know for sure is that they are both less popular and have far less coverage than the TGA. And I'd argue that this - this influence - is the only thing that matters. The Nobel Peace prize is hardly respectable nowadays, but it's still getting posted because it's widely covered by the media and everyone wants to know who the winner of this award is.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
22:20, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - this event has grown in prestige over the years and I think has taken a spot as one of the major nights for the gaming industry. Big-name developers and figures in the industry attend this event, major announcements are made during the show, and as Openlydialectic has pointed out several times it is watched by a large audience. Regarding its importance vis-à-vis other gaming awards, I don't really see that conversation as relevant given there is a lack of evidence about the prestige and importance of those other shows in comparison to these awards. If that conversation is to be had, I think it should be had at ITN:R since a reoccurring post about gaming awards is likely ITN:R material. A decision on which one people want to post about yearly can be made there, but on the presented facts of the Game Awards on their own, I think this should be posted. --
PlasmaTwa201:06, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose, relatively niche pop-culture interest, and not of huge international or historical importance. WP already has a problem of too much focus on pop culture over more serious and important issues. Video game are really not that important.
Harizotoh9 (
talk)
02:54, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
As much as I might be opposed to the posting of this particular event, it's probably a bit of a stretch to say that video games are a "niche interest" given that at least this particular event had viewings similar to the Oscars. Outside of Western Europe, the U.S. and Japan, maybe.--
WaltCip (
talk)
13:32, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose In response to the comparisons to the Oscars and Grammys, I don't think video games have the same mass appeal as movies and music yet. It will take another 10-20 years or so for that to happen. Also, a good part of the Game Awards was advertising for upcoming games, which makes me take it less seriously as a genuine award ceremony and more of a commercial event. The ceremony is still pretty new and needs some more time to gain a track record.
TarkusABtalk10:47, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support because the oldest blurb is pretty old at this point. If we had no shortage of blurbs this might not be significant enough to qualify, but as it is I'm supporting.
Banedon (
talk)
02:24, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Significant coverage from reliable video game sources and non-video game sources alike. Significant viewership, especially in comparison to that of the Oscars. Video gaming is not a niche thing as it use to be. They are part of the mainstream. Practically anyone with a cellphone is playing a video game. In America at least (which this show is based out of), there are more households with game consoles than not. The article itself is well put together and well documented. Furthermore, for those saying this is a "new" show, not really. Yes, "The Game Awards" have only been around for five years, but this show was born out of the
Spike Video Game Awards, which was around from 2003 to 2013, before essentially becoming The Game Awards. --
JDC808♫23:49, 10 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment Time to call this I think. A !vote count is even, a few opposes dismiss the "significance" of video games I think can be dismissed outright, some serious opposes around the relative newness of the event are reasonable and merit consideration. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
01:00, 11 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
"During this time, Hennig also appeared in the independent film, The Wrestler, where he faced Verne Gagne at the Cow Palace in the opening match." In the opening match of the film or the opening match of the card at the Cow Palace? I would assume the former, but it's unclear from the way it's worded. More importantly, the AWA didn't run shows at the Cow Palace until at least five or six years after the film's release. There was another promotion affiliated with the
National Wrestling Alliance which ran the Cow Palace throughout the 1960s and 1970s. The paragraph's only source makes no mention of the film or the match. Speaking of unclear wording, one would assume from the photo and caption that he was making a personal appearance at Domino's Pizza, yet one is left to wonder whether they could have been announcing that they actually hired him to work there. Finally, such a fractured chronology may work for a Tarantino film, but it left me somewhat dizzy. The section "
Knee injury" begins by discussing a knee injury, while the section as a whole covers many distinct phases of his career stretching over nearly a decade. Many folks from outside
WP:PW have complained over the years that these biographies are really dumping grounds of wrestling trivia and the project's cherry-picked sources. It seems to me that separating everything by wrestling promotion puts too much weight on the promotions themselves at the expense of this being a proper biography. We're rewarding that behavior by placing a link on the main page? Hmmm... For example, Hennig enjoyed a fair amount of success in Japan throughout his career; according to his ja.wiki article, he toured there over a span of nearly two decades. This longevity was mostly due to his connection to Harley Race, who became one of the more beloved gaijin wrestlers long before that became a popular phenomenon. Pro wrestling in Japan receives significant mainstream media attention. I see no reason why that was ignored other than the fact that someone wanted to give undue weight to other things.
RadioKAOS /
Talk to me, Billy /
Transmissions 02:24, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
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further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Putting down a marker for the moment while I work on filling in the missing cites Now ready, thanks to the several people who turned up to clean, tidy and cite.
SchroCat (
talk)
21:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment There are a few LGBT categories on his article, but I don't see them supported in the article. There's a mention of
Homosapien being banned by the BBC for the references to gay sex, but nothing to support that Shelley was bisexual. Thanks. LugnutsFire Walk with Me07:51, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The deputy governor of
Sweden's central bank, the
Riksbank, says that the country is likely to become a
cashless society within the next three to five years.
(Reuters)
Disasters and accidents
Two people died while 18 others are injured when a tank truck caught fire and exploded in the city of
Rieti,
Italy.
(Sky Tg24)
A search and rescue operation is underway for 7 servicemen after an incident involving a
US Marine CorpF/A-18 fighter jet and a
KC-130 refueling aircraft off the coast of
Japan.
(BBC)
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Still drinking the Kool-Aid, I see. The nomination template and
WP:ITNRD both make a vague reference to "quality". Every time I come to this page, the discussion frames "quality" solely in terms of the mere existence or non-existence of citations, often without regard for whether they're to reliable sources. This article has at least a few other problems than that.
RadioKAOS /
Talk to me, Billy /
Transmissions 01:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Well solving one problem at a time seems most logical to me. Cite everything (it's a BLP after all, nothing to do with RD or its nomination template) and then check over for reliable sources. Then check for NPOV and encyclopedic writing. Then consider supporting. Right now, we're on step 1. And I have no idea what Kool-Aid has to do with this.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:26, 6 December 2018 (UTC)reply
We routinely discuss the use of unreliable sources here. BLPs often cite wikis, personal blogs, and IMDB. But step one of evaluating sources is having sources.
ghost19:25, 8 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article:GSAT-11 (
talk·history·tag) Blurb: India's heaviest satellite has gone into orbit on a French rocket to help boost broadband internet services. (
Post) News source(s):BBC Credits:
Oppose – I'm sure it's no small feat for India, but a relatively unnotable event in international spaceflight, as many satellites with the purpose of aiding telecommunication are launched by various countries and launch service providers on a regular basis. In addition, the
GSAT-11 and
Ariane flight VA246 articles leave much to be desired. – PhilipTerryGraham (
talk·articles·reviews)
12:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The heaviest satellite by one particular nation is not a particularly noteworthy record. Also, the article is still in future tense, with no prose update since the launch. This might make a good
WP:DYK, if it can be sufficiently expanded to qualify there.
Modest Geniustalk13:06, 5 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose until now I wasn't aware that "heaviest satellite" was even a thing really. Stubby article, not really seeing it as newsworthy, maybe a DYK option.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:15, 5 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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The alleged boss of the
Cosa Nostra mafia clan is arrested along with 45 suspected accomplices in the
province of Palermo,
Italy. They are accused of aggravated extortion.
(Euronews)
Following large protests against French President
Emmanuel Macron's planned increases on
fuel taxes, French Prime Minister
Édouard Philippe announces that these plans will be suspended for at least six months.
(Bloomberg)
In
ice hockey, the
National Hockey League announces that its board of governors unanimously approved a
new franchise for
Seattle. The new team will start play in the 2021–22 season, bringing the league's membership to 32 teams.
(ESPN)
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WP:ITNRD.
It was a fair bit larger but my additions were reverted. I am in discussion with the other editor to readd what I think is useful information, but I'll not die in a ditch over it -
Dumelow (
talk)
20:46, 5 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Qatar announces that it is withdrawing from
OPEC in January 2019, after almost 60 years of membership, to focus on
natural gas production.
(The Guardian)
The
United States Postal Service announces it will suspend regular mail deliveries, retail services and administrative office activity on December 5 as part of President Trump's declared national day of mourning.
(CNN)
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WP:ITNRD.
Support Looks good and marking ready, but would probably age off pretty soon.
Zigzig20s, because this is a new article, you may want to consider nominating this for DYK. SpencerT•C16:42, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
It already would have aged off; the oldest RD item now has a more recent date of death than Fields. I'm going to go ahead and close this nom and suggest for DYK. SpencerT•C20:53, 7 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: There might be too much
WP:CRYSTAL to post this now. Some experts suggest it is a continuation of the
2017–18 Qatar diplomatic crisis, others suggest it may lead to the end of OPEC. And as a announcement about something that won't happen officially until next month, it could get stopped. It's also unclear what the bolded article should be.
power~enwiki (
π,
ν)
22:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - January is slow for news anyway, so we can post it if Qatar goes through with their decision. Clearly of significant and merit for ITN, but only once it happens.
Stormy clouds (
talk)
01:33, 4 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose I'd actually favor posting now, since the story is in the news now, and now is when people will be interested in the related Wikipedia article. However, I don't know what that related Wikipedia article is. I'm not entirely sure which article we are pushing out as the work we are asking our readers to check out. Unless and until we have something to assess the quality of, I don't know what we're supposed to assess. --
Jayron3217:43, 4 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose We should wait until Qatar actually withdraws from OPEC. 18:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: OSIRIS-REx has initiated its primary science campaign as of this evening after, completing its first engine burn in the vicinity of Bennu at ~17:00 UTC. – PhilipTerryGraham (
talk·articles·reviews)
17:32, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I wasn't aware of the NASA-lies-about-boring-science-missions conspiracy theory. Perhaps you could enlighten us on it? Of course, your theory would need to be independently verified. Abductive (
reasoning)18:14, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
I wasn't aware of the Chinese-geneticist-lies-about-gene-therapy conspiracy theory until recently, but it's forced me to call into question the legitimacy of all science news. #trustnoone --
LaserLegs (
talk)
18:31, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The trajectory has been a matter of public record ever since it left Earth two years ago. No reliable source has ever expressed the slightest doubt in the position as reported by NASA. They have released imagery proving that the spacecraft was getting close, and the rendezvous process was broadcast live on TV. Besides, this is an engineering achievement, not a scientific result (yet). I suspect you're just being
WP:POINTy.
Modest Geniustalk18:35, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support I have added a bit more to explain what this event is (NASA considers this arrival as the unit does not have a usual "touch-down" event) and what will happen before sampling. --
Masem (
t)
18:53, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: These French protests are considered to be the most widespread and violent in a decade. This is getting as much, if not more, coverage than the concurrent G20 meeting. Feel free to make a better blurb.
User:Tocino14:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose the French opposing that their fuel prices have hit the same as those in the UK? And the French are protesting about something? Nope. And given this rumbling has been going on (and is likely to go on) for months, this is only really applicable to Ongoing, a few hundred arrests is nowhere near the ITN event bar.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
15:05, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
For real? Largest protests in any western country in almost a decade, 3 people already dead, almost a thousand injured, and you are saying this is nothing? Wow.
Openlydialectic (
talk)
15:32, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I didn't realise it was bigger than the Women's March, the marches against Trump, the Brexit protests etc. So yes, I'm saying this is nothing unusual for France. And as I noted, it's either "ongoing" or nothing. So probably "nothing".
The Rambling Man (
talk)
15:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak support About a week and a half ago, I saw wider coverage of these protests, but at the time, they were not really violent. With the violence now involved, I think this at least merits a blurb now, potentially ongoing. --
Masem (
t)
16:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
At this point, I think ongoing is better since the protests have been going on for a couple of days. If state of emergency is declared, this would merit a separate blurb. --Tone16:55, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Strong support as the protests/riots have been very big and are still ongoing. The crisis meeting and reports of possible state of emergency only valids how serious this news is. --
Wq639 (
talk)
17:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support, for either blurb or ongoing (maybe ongoing is a somewhat better choice). Worst nationwide mass riots in France since 1968. IMO, that's sufficient to pass both the blurb and ongoing bars.
Nsk92 (
talk)
20:03, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose any posting because the article is crap. A separate history and background section -- how is that not the same thing? No timeline, some content about events a week ago and a little sentence fragment about a death in Arles. Zero detail about it, just that it happened. Come on, this isn't comprehensive at all, which is an actual requirement of ITN. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
01:13, 3 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment - Why is there an easter egg "French fuel protests" to the target article
yellow vests movement? The fuel tax shouldn't be the focus here, otherwise we need to pull this from ongoing as the tax increase has now been suspended
[41].--
WaltCip (
talk)
17:25, 4 December 2018 (UTC)reply
There is no better target for Yellow vest movement on en.wp than
Yellow vests movement. This was apparently rickrolled by an admin named Stephen who has been asked to explain their actions, for which no consensus can be found above.— 🍣
SashiRolls t ·
c17:39, 9 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: As many have predicted, the two superpowers indeed achieved a deal on the sidelines of the G20 summit. Possibly one of the most important events of the decade in international politics, so obviously it has to be posted on the ITN
Openlydialectic (
talk)
04:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose As I read the statement, this still requirements work in both countries' governments to come to agreements and legislation to back the deals made. --
Masem (
t)
05:30, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Both parties agree that they will endeavor to have this transaction completed within the next 90 days. If at the end of this period of time, the parties are unable to reach an agreement, the 10% tariffs will be raised to 25%." - in other words, the tariff rises might happen anyway, so there's certainly no point posting this - if it is indeed important enough for ITN, which I doubt - until that 90 days is up.
Black Kite (talk)14:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose as noted before me, this is just a "maybe", nothing more, certainly not "one of the most important events of the decade in international politics".
The Rambling Man (
talk)
15:03, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose more Trump fake deals. They've postponed escalation, not rolled back any existing tariffs, and bullshit nothing language like "by a significant amount" without any concrete deals is completely meaningless. --
LaserLegs (
talk)
16:18, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. They've vaguely agreed to postpone further action while more talks are held. If further tariffs are imposed that might be worth an ITN blurb (depending on the scale), but continuation of the status quo does not. Also, the article seems to be heavily one sided, favouring the US. I suspect it fails
WP:NPOV.
Modest Geniustalk17:31, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose - This sort of nothingism is meant to manipulate speculators in the market, probably so Trump can get the stock market to end the year in positive territory. As pointed out above, totally easy for him to claim a month later "they're not holding up their end of the deal" and just roll forward with the tariffs anyway.
WaltCip (
talk)
22:40, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
More than 1,000 aftershocks shake
Alaska after a magnitude 7.0 earthquake knocked out power, ripped open roads and splintered buildings in
Anchorage.
(CNN)(Reuters)
Nominator's comments: Few things to note: Because the Indonesian government practically bans foreign journalists from the area, all information will either be from them or from the Papua movement. However, the killings at least have been confirmed by both parties - numbers remain unclear for now. Used "and" because govt claims mostly civilian and movement claims mostly soldiers.
Juxlos (
talk)
12:16, 6 December 2018 (UTC)reply
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this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Question - is he notable? I'm certainly not an expert on military notability, but the article was only created today. Obviously there are reliable sources reporting his death but I see nothing in the article pre-dating that. I would expect sources reporting on his notability whilst he was still alive, to be honest.
Black Kite (talk)14:33, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Ah, OK. For historical reasons I'm always dubious about notability guidelines set up by Wikiprojects but this does appear to be long-standing. However, the article is still only sourced to the US Navy and obituaries, it'd be useful to flesh it out a bit.
Black Kite (talk)19:38, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Weak support I would imagine individuals in this position within the USN are inherently notable, but happy to be proved wrong. Article is lightweight, hence weak support, but what's there is okay.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
15:09, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
Support Literally transformative leader in his field. Death necessitates actual change in a top position, but not famous enough for a blurb. Temporarily famous enough to expect more sources and facts soon.
InedibleHulk(talk)20:03, 2 December 2018 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.