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Wikipedia talk:In the news. Thanks.
Conservationists report in Oryx, the International Journal of Conservation that the
Sumatran Rhino is now considered extinct in the wild in
Malaysia. No new wild animals have been spotted since 2007, elsewhere fewer than 100 Rhinos remain in the wild.
(MSN)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
From the BBC - "No hurricane has ever been recorded further east in the tropical Atlantic." As to the impact, that will become known overnight and tomorrow morning.
Mjroots (
talk)
20:54, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
DYK material – Meteorologically significant, definitely. ITN worthy, not really. It's a subset of the overall easternmost hurricane record pertaining to the deep tropics;
Vince in 2005 still holds the easternmost record. Although the
Atlantic hurricane database extends back to 1851, reliable records only start in the 1960s when satellites came into the picture (and even those are currently being
reanalyzed to correct errors). There's far to much uncertainty in the database to say whether or not Fred is definitively the first hurricane to strike Cape Verde, and given the nature of well nature, it's very likely that other hurricanes have struck the archipelago in the past. Pending on the scale of impact in the Cape Verde Islands, this could be ITN worthy later on.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
21:03, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: A nice change of pace from the disaster-related events filling ITN lately. Somebody will need to do an expansion on the article if this is deemed fit for ITN.
Nergaal (
talk)
20:41, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, it does actually expand our understanding of the universe. The main issue is that this was announced last week. Support assuming update and move of nomination to proper press date.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose as scientific trivia and little more to the layperson -- although I will have to rethink my upcoming vacation to the galaxy Markarian 231... -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
05:54, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - Interesting to humans around the world. Understanding the cosmos is inspiring and increases our knowledge of physics, which may have unexpected benefits to mankind. The idea of binary black holes is mind-stretching.
Jusdafax22:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The currently nominated blurb is fine, quasars are named for quasi-stellar objects because although they are far outside out galaxy, they shine as brightly as nearby stars. Yes, that's technical, but we don't limit ourselves to the ignorance of our broadest readership. (Otherwise no sports records would ever get posted.) We post the most concise headers that will be clear to those readers of ours schooled in such matters.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:04, 6 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Well unmarking, yet again, because the main article has an orange maintenance tag (and is a stub with bad references and dab links, did you read it?). It would be preferable if this was fixed and if we had a blurb that actually gave our general audience a feeling for the significance, despite our own clear super-intelligent understanding of the point of the story. Final nail is that it seemed that this "significant" news was released on 27 August, so this nomination is actually stale, regardless of the pitiful quality of the article/update. I advise Medeis to refrain from nominating such poor nominations as Ready in the future, this is really weak.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:16, 6 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Upon reconsideration, I've stricken the "weak" part of my above oppose. I haven't seen a single argument articulated well for why this is ITN material. Why is it significant that a particular quasar is the product of a binary black hole? -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
21:12, 6 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Even after reading the article it is still not clear to me what about this discovery would be ITN material. Is there anything about this discovery that would make it the most important discovery in astrophysics this year?
LoveToLondon (
talk)
21:27, 6 September 2015 (UTC)reply
No consensus: Re-closing this contentious nomination. I think it is clear at this point that there is no reasonable likelihood of gaining consensus here. Recent comments seem to be generating more heat than light. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
17:50, 2 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Described as "one of the pioneers of the stately home industry" and as "a leading authority on veteran and vintage cars" by the BBC.
Everymorning(talk)17:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Very weak opposeSupport. Probably equally notable for his role in LGBT legal history. but I'm unconvinced that he's notable enough in any particular area to cross the RD bar. Changed my mind, on the basis that he's a really interesting character with enough media coverage in his life to warrant an RD.
Black Kite (talk)17:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
No idea what you mean by your first point, but you should know vintage cars are big business, anywhere in the world. Well maybe not so much in developing countries where owning a vintage car would raise some eyebrows...("why have an old car when you can have a new car!?" Ah, first world shit)--
109.149.122.179 (
talk)
19:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I understand that vintage cars are a big business, but I don't see that as important enough for ITN. It's not like he invented the airbag or something like that. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
20:14, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Support I am supporting, but I concede that the argument for his meeting ITNDC is not the strongest I have run across. That said I think there is enough (if barely) to give him the nod.
Ad Orientem (
talk)
20:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: A fascinating character important in a whopping three different fields (British politics, LGBT culture and history, and museums and collecting). I think that cross-section makes him a pretty strong candidate, and I think Wikipedia visitors will be interested in his biography. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
22:28, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Lord God no we don't need to start canonizing unwilling homosexual martyrs, That went out of style after Rock Hudson, and is frankly just about as condescending as possible.
μηδείς (
talk)
02:26, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
You have this attitude I don't understand that putting someone in RD is "canonizing" them. Time after time you support or oppose RD nominations based more on your opinion of the person's merit, rather than the merit of the article or the relevant criteria. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
04:58, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Seems like a standard "anti-anti-establishment" rant. The point is that Montagu was more than gay, he was seminal in his work for heritage. Of course it's easy to jump on the gay train, but that's just one facet of what Montagu gave us.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Apologies, of course I should have noted that he was both left- and right-footed. However, my point remains, we do tend have a kind of anti-anti thing going on.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:20, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
ITNDC does not require that the subject was at the top of their field. only that they were very important. I agree that this is not the strongest nominee, but your assessment seems overly harsh and IMO does not reflect what the article says of the man. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
06:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Even though the subject is not as grand of a impact, he does meet the RD requirements BUT there are sections that don't have sources. The article needs more sources and appears to be in weak shape for posting. --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
06:21, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose "Somewhat famous for socializing and for playing a part in a court case from 60 years ago." This isn't Dred Scott. --
Tocino08:19, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Post-close whingeing comment Not only was he one of the first British aristocrats to open up his ancestral home to the public, but his notability in a high-profile and controversial court case led to a widely-read memoirs and a TV documentary. Hardly an unknown non-entity.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
15:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Comments that seem to have strayed off topic and are generating more heat than light. If there is a desire to continue this discussion, perhaps the talk page would be a better venue. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
21:14, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
In fact, I count at least five supports and that's enough to keep the discussion alive, so I'm re-opening it. And I'm guessing (guessing) that most of the opposes are from those from outside the UK....
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:53, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
You really want us to go down that road again? (FWIW, not arguing against reopening it, but do we have to relive the US vs. UK b.s.?) –
Muboshgu (
talk)
18:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not really sure I understand. This isn't US Wikipedia. And the opposition came from Americans, Dutch, Australians... did you check your assertion of "a bunch of Brits" or did you just make it up?
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:04, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
No problem, you just fabricated it. Please don't do that again in the future, it's unhelpful and misleading, and maybe worse, unbecoming of someone with your experience.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:33, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
I didn't fabricate anything. I saw who a number of the opposers were when that discussion was going on. I've seen the use of the word "parochial" by British Wikipedians on this page over time. I'm sure some Americans and Australians and whoever else also opposed it, but the British opposition I saw seemed dismissive based on it being a "local" issue. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
20:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry, you made a mistake, that's fine, we all do it from time to time. Alternatively, please identify the "bunch of Brits" you claim to be behind this conspiracy! (and note, most of those people who opposed weren't British, despite your claim)...
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:51, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - a notable figure in the UK because of his renowned motor museum and his heritage work. Personally, I wasn't even aware of his importance in LGBT history until the obits - but that alone should push him over the RD blurb threshold.
Ghmyrtle (
talk)
19:00, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. One of the first British aristocrats to open up his ancestral home to the public. I don't really think he's "an unwilling homosexual martyr in need of
canonization", and many feel his experience helped lead to a change in the law in UK.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
19:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The subject is notable, but the problem that I see is that the article is in bad shape. I'd throw in my support, but not until the article has been improved. You can't just support just for nobility, the article matters too. --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
19:23, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Conditional support is fully acceptable here, as far as I know. If there is more support perhaps more editors will "throw their support into improving the article".
Martinevans123 (
talk)
19:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose The article itself says he denied at least two homosexual charges against him and "always maintained he was innocent". Murky story, at least not RD level.
Brandmeistertalk21:19, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
I thought this
famous for being famous nomination was closed. I have nothing against Montagu, and I am 80% homo myself. So the accusations of "IDONTLIKEIT" are simply projection. What I actually don't like is a very mediocre person being championed basically for identity reasons. Were he straight this would never have been nominated.
μηδείς (
talk)
22:32, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
I thought it was clear my opinion was that those matters on their own don't merit an RD listing. I don't think the nomination was not in good faith, I simply don't think it merits posting. Nor would I be terribly vexed should this be posted.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:56, 2 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the sarcasm, I missed my noon coffee. Perhaps you also have a spare stick for up my ass? I am not about to apologize for your misreading or for your dudgeon when I explain myself politely.
μηδείς (
talk)
17:13, 2 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Conditional Support - For the record, Montagu maintained that he was bisexual (rather than gay), but that he was innocent of the specific charge which led to his becoming a famous name in LGBT history. But I first heard of him in his capacity as the chairman of
English Heritage, who was responsible for its successful rebranding from being the 'Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission'. At the moment our article on his life says far too little about this and his other contributions to heritage preservation and public life. My support is conditional on this being remedied.
AlexTiefling (
talk)
22:42, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Aristocrat who dabbled in various fields (politics, motoring etc.) and had a minor role in 1950s gay rights. Interesting enough article, but not sufficiently significant to be RD material.
Modest Geniustalk23:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hurricane Ignacio, which has weakened to a Category 3 (115 mph) storm, is expected to side-step
Hawaii this week though will still generate high surf, rain and powerful winds. The
Big Island and
Maui remain on a tropical storm watch. Ignacio may re-strengthen to a hurricane when he clears
Oahu on Wednesday.
(The Inquisitr),
(Reuters)
Hungary makes a fifth arrest in relation to the death of seventy-one migrants in a truck in
Austria.
(CNN)
An open truck smashes into the back of a van near
Mbabane,
Swaziland killing 65 girls and young women traveling to an annual dance festival.
(RT),
(The Telegraph)
Protestors in
Beirut continue their protests against the government due to a lack of effective garbage collection in the city during one of the hottest summers on record.
(NPR)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Weak support: Seems like an interesting person who was important in his field. I would like to see the article expanded with more information about his scholarly works, as right now, it's basically just his early life, controversies, and now murder. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:14, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on article quality for reasons noted above. I would Support for blurb only, but not for RD. Since the manner of his death (murdered in his home) IS itself newsworthy, and needs explanation, this should be a blurb, if it is cleaned up and posted. RD is for routine deaths, where the blurb would be "Dies of being old" or something similar. This was an unexpected and newsworthy death, and needs explanation in the form of a blurb, so IF it is fixed up, it should be a blurb and not RD. --
Jayron3219:59, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Support conditional on significant improvements in the article. Sourcing in particular is unacceptably weak at present. That said I think an argument, although not a very strong one based on the article, could be made for meeting criteria #2 in ITNDC. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
00:47, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Blurb the assassination of an author for his writing needs a blurb. I won't write one, but an RD listing is beyond the point.
μηδείς (
talk)
02:22, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD tag A man who is murdered for what he believes in sure means he is notable. But I don't think a blurb is the right approach. I think a RD tag is good enough. --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
02:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support RD - while he was not one of the most-lauded directors there has ever been - he is famous for his works, and the influence that they carry.
Challenger l (
talk)
02:48, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD - Notable, and some minor awards. Some big hits. I am not a fan of his work, but concede his RD-worthiness. Agree that article is thin.
Jusdafax02:54, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Posted Article is updated and sourced with the death, subject is widely regarded as a horror movie icon, as seen by supports here. There's one tag, so the article could use some work, but nothing major.----
Patar knight - chat/contributions03:34, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Post-posting support but article needs improvements - RD here was a no brainer given his success, but while a good chunk of the article is sourced, it really needs more inline sourcing for a BLP (and I am not confortable with the whole section on awards/recognizition lacking sources with that tag.) Pulling it would not be proper but this needs to be fixed ASAP. --
MASEM (
t)
03:41, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Pull Immediately As in right this minute. How did this get posted with an entire section unsourced(!)? It should be pulled until that is corrected. I Support the nomination in principal, but this article is no where near ready to be linked on the front page. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
03:58, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Renowned artist and who painted a large amount of portraits to people of high importance. Art has been put in high class art institutions. Known for Princess Diana, Bill Clinton "blue dress", Ronald Reagan, and Pope John Paul II portraits. Article in good shape. Died on the 28th but death was announced today. --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
22:09, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. He does seem to have the awards and recognition to indicate he is notable in his field. There seems to be citations for everything just from a quick read.
331dot (
talk)
23:24, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Definitely RD material, article is fine for sourcing. I do think this should be listed on the 28th (it's not like a week has past) but that's a trivality. --
MASEM (
t)
03:43, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose – Tragic loss of cultural heritage, but the temple is appears less significant than Baalshamin (just an assumption since it's not classified a UNESCO World Heritage site like Baalshamin is) and it's only partially destroyed. We can't really go on reporting all the things ISIL blows up (exaggerating here, but you get my point).
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
22:21, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support merge with the Temple of Baalshamin blurb. Palmyra as a whole is a World Heritage site and this is an important part of it. This temple is/was an almost 2000-year-old, archaeologically very important site, and such a destruction of notable cultural heritage, part of a World Heritage site, is a significant event that would warrant posting. All the vandalism to come can be discussed as it comes along, but there aren't really many more World Heritage sites under ISIS control. --
GGT (
talk)
07:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support merge & bump. As I posted in the Baalshamin nomination, this event can serve as an introduction point for readers to eminantly encyclopedic topics (ancient architecture & anthropology), and is something that readers would not get from a standard news source. As such, this plays exactly to the strengths of ITN on Wikipedia. I've added an altblurb for consideration.
128.214.53.18 (
talk)
10:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – Based on
this BBC report, we may have to say "heavily damaged." (And remember, "destroyed" is technically an absolute term denoting total, er, destruction.)
Sca (
talk)
13:40, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - So now you have set a precedent, RM, by putting it at the top again. I ask you, if IS destroys more temples do we keep bumping it up? It could be our first ever semi-permanent blurb. I think this bump needs to be discussed before this kind of placement.
Jusdafax16:59, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
It's not everyday that ISIL demolishes such an ancient structures in a UNESCO-listed location, in this case Palmyra. Many structures destroyed by ISIL are from 6th century AD onwards.
Brandmeistertalk16:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Obviously true, and equally obviously heinous and regrettable, but it is not at all the point of my comment. TRM, by repositioning the story sets a precedent, and my question remains: shouldn't this new type of long-lasting blurb be discussed by ITN editors, or are we content to have this as the new status quo here? If IS destroys even more temples in the wide swath of territory they control, do we keep on bumping to the top of ITN? I find this new order questionable.
Jusdafax22:00, 2 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support The official renaming of a geographical feature that is not within a region of dispute is a very rare event. I would suggest the blurb explain why (that is, to "return" the mountain to the native people of Alaska, in a way). I initially had started this with weak support (before an ec conflict) but the article Muboshgu is a strong reason to ITN this. --
MASEM (
t)
21:49, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose I'm afraid. Culturally within North America quite significant maybe, but very much appears to be a non-event in the rest of the world at least in terms of news reporting. --
KTC (
talk)
22:08, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
From above: Please do not complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." –
Muboshgu (
talk)
22:10, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I didn't complain that this only relate to a single country. I said that this doesn't seems to have interested or been picked up by the rest of the world. If you're going to complain about my opinion, please at least complain about what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. :) --
KTC (
talk)
22:30, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
That article actually illustrated my point. A link to it is buried at the bottom of the US edition, but nowhere to be seen in the other editions. --
KTC (
talk)
22:37, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The point is that whether it's a "non-event" or not in other parts of the world, that doesn't matter, because if it's a big event where it's a story, that's all that matters. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
23:19, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose we don't post when the names of things are changed due to war, revolution, regime change, or gained independence. The name Denali has been used for years. This executive order simply coincides with a political junket.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:16, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per Masem. I'm a bit confused by the objection directly above my comment... that this is a peacetime action should make it even more noteworthy, IMO. – Juliancolton |
Talk02:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support seems really obvious. North America's tallest mountain and one of the world's most well-known landmarks is being renamed. Geography textbooks worldwide will have to be rewritten. I don't see how this is not worthy of posting.
Banedon (
talk)
05:31, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Futile post posting oppose - This is just a joke. No evidence of widespread coverage at all, which is not a surprise, because it is just a reasonable high mountain being renamed. No reason for it in the first place, no impact and no interest. Nobody has been able to tell me why this is even in the new locally, let alone why it should be on the main page of a global encyclopaedia. You do wonder why people don't take ITN seriously....
Fgf10 (
talk)
09:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
If you review the naming dispute article you will understand this has been a political dispute for many years(
Ohio politicans are upset while Alaska's are happy); it is receiving much coverage, even internationally to some degree (
BBCIrish Times). Textbooks and maps will need to be rewritten; this is a significant change, just as renaming Mount Everest or any highly significant geographical feature would be. Saying that we don't take this seriously is also mildly offensive. You disagreeing with what consensus determines to be posted doesn't mean we aren't serious.
331dot (
talk)
09:24, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It's not just "some mountain". It's the tallest mountain in North America. It'd get the same treatment if it was
Mt Kilimanjaro,
Mt Everest, or
Aconcagua. Further, this isn't a global encyclopedia, it's English Wikipedia. You say it's not news locally. Where is local to you? Because I'm about 4500 miles away, and it was front page on Google News. Just because it's not local in NSW Australia or Johannesburg, South Africa, doesn't mean it's not news in other English speaking parts of the world. See the original rebuttal to the first opposition above.
No, they do have mountains in England, just none whose peaks are nearly as high above sea level as Denali. Much of the
North of England is quite rugged, at least as rugged as the Appalachian region of North America (and interestingly, geologically related to it). See
Furness Fells for just one example. In England, these areas are called
Fells rather than mountain ranges, but they mean the same thing. --
Jayron3218:16, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I have to say that claiming that opposition to this story is based on some bizarre concept of "mountain envy" is absolutely and tragically pathetic. I'm not sure most of the English-speaking world (outside of America) cares about the nomenclature attributed to this mountain, but it seemed to gather enough attention to get the support required. I will also note that at least one of the opposition is not "English". It would be better not to say anything than say something as crassly absurd in the future.
The Rambling Man (
talk) 20:07, 31 August 2015 (UTC
Late oppose "The United States renames a mountain" doesn't strike me as important or interesting. I'm sure Alaska cares, but it's awfully local news. Places change names all the time. The !votes here are also mostly straight votes: the only argument being made is that it doesn't seem to happen very often. This is understandable, as most of the voters on this item seem to be infrequently active on ITN/C. For future reference, you should add a rationale that's more than "it's notable" or "it's significant", and that is not only about criticizing an oppose vote. Finally, note that most news websites will tailor their content based on
geolocation: the front page of, let's say,
The Guardian will look different depending on what country you're from.
Isa (
talk)
00:28, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
I must disagree with that assessment; Please give examples of places changing names "all the time". Even if they do, they do not often get extensive coverage. Further, we are talking about the highest mountain on an entire continent, not a neighborhood street or minor stream. I don't see how the opinons expressed are "mostly" votes; I see two. News outlets may use geolocation, but they still created or published the story which indicates it is notable and covered.
331dot (
talk)
00:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
This is also not "local news", as it involves two states; Ohio, where politicians are upset and some are exploring ways to reverse it or challenge it in court; and Alaska, where people are happy about the decision that they have wanted since statehood.
331dot (
talk)
00:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Existence of news reporting affect the notability, i.e. whether we have the article in the first place, not how "big" it is in terms of news (headline news vs. something buried in the middle of a printed newspaper). Wikipedia is supposed to be global, not US centric. Involving two states of the USA is still "local" as far as the rest of the world is concerned. As I pointed out above re Reuters, the story didn't even make headline within the US edition, and was nowhere to be seen in the other editions. Similarly for other news orgs that did pick up the story later on. That's just not significant enough news for me for ITN, but others disagree. --
KTC (
talk)
11:42, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
For Isa: There are seven widely recognized continents, and thus there are only seven peaks in the entire world that are considered the tallest on their continent. Could you cite the last time one of the seven highest continental peaks was renamed? --
Jayron3202:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
It's a very major mountain of Earth, Denali is the 3rd highest top of a continent and higher points are only in West People's Republic of China, a short distance from it, and Ecuador to mid-Chile. It's the highest point closer than about 50 degrees from a pole (63°N 151°W)·.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
14:43, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Good, so would you agree that such an event would not be "common", and posting such an event, on average, once every 60 years or so, would not unduly tax our ability at ITN to keep up with such developments? --
Jayron3216:20, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Agreed. But it doesn't change my opinion that this is not particularly "in the news", that it's fairly local news and that I don't think it should be on the main page. The fact that it's a big mountain is irrelevant to me.
Isa (
talk)
16:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
And it really is "super"-local, but ITN doesn't disallow that kind of thing, particularly if a massive consensus appears while the rest of the world is sleeping. Ten hours seems like a legitimate amount of time for a consensus to form, even if the story is localised to one nation, and has disappeared from view virtually straight away.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
17:01, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - whilst I'm neutral on whether this should be on ITN or not, I feel it was posted too early. The nomination was made late at night British/European time, and posted in the eraly hours of the following morning. In other words, the discussion ran when it would have been mainly those from North/South America wiould have seen it. Given that this was likely to be contraversial, and in order to avoid claims of systemic bias, I feel full consensus should only have been gained after at least 24 hours. — An
optimist on the run! (logged on as
Pek the Penguin)
14:27, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Arbitrary minimum discussion times or requiring comment from around the world before posting are perennial proposals here; they have never and probably won't gain consensus.
331dot (
talk)
14:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
331 beat me to it. I'd also say that 10 hours is a fairly typical time frame from the nomination to posting in cases where the article is up to snuff. (At least three other items -- the European migrant crisis under ongoing and two recent deaths -- were posted in recent days in less time than it took for this to be posted.) It's also interesting that these complaints seemingly are only raised when a topic pertaining to the U.S. is posted "too soon." Calidum14:34, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not surprised it was posted, it's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't here. News is slow at the moment, so adding a non-event like this to the main page which gained sufficient consensus isn't really a problem. Interesting that many of those in opposition aren't actually British either.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
14:44, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
In case this was in part directed at me, I'm not British. There are English-speaking people all over the world. Some even have it as a second language. We're all biased in some way, but I believe everyone here is acting in good faith and trying to be as neutral as possible. Don't make this an "us against them".
Isa (
talk)
15:55, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
As one of the opposer, I don't actually have a problem with the posting. Sure I disagree with it, but consensus was there, even if it's not unanimous. --
KTC (
talk)
15:15, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Closed as a terrible indictment of ITNR. The article is appalling, it's probably worthy seeking this particular item's removal from ITNR given the abject apathetic response from those ardent supporters who did absolutely nothing to improve the article.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:40, 4 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The World Championships in Athletics usually attract the world elite in athletics and its popularity is rapidly growing so that the competition every time receives wider media coverage and broadcast to a record-breaking number of people. --
Kiril Simeonovski (
talk)
14:10, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. 1) Already in ITN/R, 2) the fact that Kenya have topped the medals table for the first time and 3) like swimming, a popular school sport as well.
Donnie Park (
talk)
16:27, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on quality grounds per TRM. Clearly not in shape for posting. I'll also note that ITNR items do not need support on the merits as that is the whole point of the ITNR list; but quality needs to be assessed and is not adequate on this page.
331dot (
talk)
20:45, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Strong support, ideally with a blurb. Sacks is not only well known in his field but also to a much wider audience through books such as The Man Who Mistook his Wife For A Hat and his TED talk. Guy (
Help!)
10:29, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD, oppose blurb - Important person in field but death was not unexpected, and this is not causing a massive pause in the world to reflect on his influence. This is exactly what RD is for. --
MASEM (
t)
13:17, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD, oppose blurb. This individual was certainly outstanding in his field. However, I don't think this situation merits a blurb.
Mamyles (
talk)
21:08, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
European interior ministers and transport officials hold emergency talks in
Paris following the recent attack on the
Thalys train between
Amsterdam and
Paris.
(BBC)
An
Egyptian court sentences
Al Jazeera journalists
Peter Greste,
Mohamed Fahmy, and Baher Mohamed each to three years jail for "aiding a terrorist organization" and falsifying news. Greste, who earlier was deported to
Australia, was tried
in absentia. Mohamed, an Egyptian, was sentenced to an additional six months for possession of a spent bullet casing; Fahmy is a Canadian national.
(ABC Australia),
(Al Jazeera)
Tens of thousands of
Malaysians rally in the capital
Kuala Lumpur calling for Prime Minister
Najib Razak to step down over a financial scandal where a MYR 2.672 billion (USD 700 million) payment was made to his bank account from unnamed foreign donors.
(BBC News)
The third recent death from the same day will be posted soon. (I might be wrong) I'll create DYK nomination of this soon. --
George Ho (
talk) 15:35, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Being the first black actor to play the lead role in Les Miserables on Broadway, as well as the youngest person to do so, combined with the sudden and unexpected nature of his death and the fact that it has been reported on by news outlets all over the world, seems to establish that Jean-Baptiste meets the RD criteria (specifically criterion 2) despite the fact that he did not have an article until after he died.
Everymorning(talk)13:46, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Tragic death and unexpected but as I see it he was only in the role for about 6 weeks and had done nothing else of note. If he'd won or been nominated for some awards then it may be sufficient. Fact that the the article had to be created after his death says it all.
yorkshiresky (
talk)
15:07, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Article didn't exist before his death, which to me is telling about overall importance to his field: not that much. DYK would be a good forum. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
23:20, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Significant development in a long-running and highly controversial criminal case in Egypt involving freedom of the press.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
20:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Question. Has Egypt ever had a free press? (genuinely asking) If not it wouldn't be significant that a country without a free press jails journalists.
331dot (
talk)
20:07, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support I'm happy to echo the comments from 331dot and The Rambling Man above, but as a news event, this is worth placing on ITN. This event might be trivial in itself (this is unexpected due to the lack of press freedom in Egypt), but it has garnered coverage as an example of the situation in Egypt.
Mynameisnotdave (
talk/
contribs)
20:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose this is only news, and still not huge news at that, if one presumes the POV that the trial was unjustified based on Egyptian law. This is not the place to right great wrongs, and certainly not the place to make a cause celebre out of a presumed lesser wrong.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:09, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose – Had a bunch of quips lined up, but would rather not spout them to avoid confrontation. Anyways, this is not significant in the grand scheme of things.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
22:07, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Actually, I do find it personally interesting; but it is not significant that a country with a poor press freedom record jails journalists. Nor is it surprising that other journalists would report on it. Now, if a country with press freedom suddenly started jailing journalists for their reporting, yes, that would be significant news. Location matters; and we aren't here to
right great wrongs.
331dot (
talk)
07:22, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The sources show only that this is in the news and why, not how important it is. Discussion here is often subjective, weighing what stories are more or less important. Subjective decisions like this do not require, and sometimes are not able to, provide a rational much better than an intuitive
WP:IDONTLIKEIT.
Mamyles (
talk)
08:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose While it is admittedly "In the News," I do not think it is significant enough to post. People are convicted on potentially inhumane charges quite often, likely on the order of weekly, and this seems minor in the scheme of world events.
Mamyles (
talk)
08:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
In your opinion. That this is now about the tenth story down on the World page of the BBC News is somewhat indicative of its true significance and long-lasting impact.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
13:34, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose It certainly looks like an injustice to me, but we don't right great wrongs. "Middle Eastern/North African court draws international criticism" is hardly unusual. -
OldManNeptune⚓14:23, 31 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The body count from a van found on an
Austrian highway carrying migrants yesterday rises to at least 71. Three people are arrested in
Hungary in relation to their deaths.
(AP via The New York Times),
(ITV)
DominicanPrime MinisterRoosevelt Skerrit reports that
Tropical Storm Erika has left at least 12 dead and more than 20 missing. Erika deposited almost 12 inches of rain in less than 10 hours and caused extensive damage across the island as floods wiped out roads, swamped villages, and started
mudslides.
(CNN)
Exposure to toxic chemicals at a
paper mill in central
China kills seven people are and injures two others.
(AP)
Thirty-eight girls and young women die in a crash and twenty others on board the truck receive injuries while travelling to the traditional
Umhlanga ceremony in
Swaziland.
(AP)
President
Trương Tấn Sang of
Vietnam signs two directives granting amnesty to 18,539 prisoners including murderers, rapists, human traffickers, and other criminals, but no political prisoners were released.
(AP via The New York Times)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support Second most wins all time, coached the Islanders to 4 consecutive Stanley Cups (AFAIK, almost unequaled in that regard), Hockey Hall of Fame member. Article in decent shape with no major omissions or referencing issues. --
Jayron3216:45, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: Major disaster, easily one of the worst in recent years for Dominica, unfolding. Death toll has spiked from 4 yesterday to 25 this morning, and it could rise further as others are likely still missing.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
12:48, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Not to badger your comment but to provide perspective: Dominica is not often hit this hard by tropical cyclones despite being frequented by them. This is one of their deadliest natural disasters on record, and the worst since Hurricane David in 1979 which struck the island as a Category 4.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
16:50, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support; perhaps not the most devastating storm, but enough consequences to post (in terms of casualties deadlier than the other two disasters up right now), especially given the age of everything else up there.
C628 (
talk)
02:12, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. It's starting to show up on Google News and radio reports with increasing frequency, and now that it's over Hispaniola, there are bound to be more deaths. ♫
Hurricanehink (
talk)
02:37, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: At least two capsizes with hundreds dead or missing, and the truck in a lay-by in Austria with at least 70 decomposing bodies... this is notable stuff.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
08:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support ongoing. The article is being updated constantly and it is hard to single out one event for a separate blurb. --Tone08:31, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Ongoing I feel that picking out a blurb for those two specific events is not really fair, considering 1) how many more people have died in this already and how many more will and 2) that while people dying certainly is the worst result of the crisis, but certainly not the only one. Will update the article later with info concerning the specific political situation in Germany (biggest outburst of right-wing violence since the early 90s...).
Zwerg Nase (
talk)
09:35, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support ongoing – For reasons above. Unfortunately it looks like it's going to be going on for a long time. (Another 200 victims off the Libyan coast
yesterday.)
Sca (
talk)
12:46, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
While this has been posted, a question is on the frequency of these stories. Is this not a continuation of events from roughly a year ago when (as I recall) two boats loaded with migrants capsized in the Med. Sea, prompting the EU to start to take steps to avoid these disasters? If this is a months-long type story where there might be a news bit every week or so, that doesn't seem to be what ongoing is for. --
MASEM (
t)
17:20, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not questioning the disasters, but that are we having these disasters on a frequent enough basis for ongoing, or is a blurb more appropriate to highlight three rather close events all linked to the long-running crisis? --
MASEM (
t)
18:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The nomination made it clear that we could either go for a combined blurb or Ongoing. Either way it needs to be covered. Or would you rather we remove it?
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:08, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm questioning that this was posted as ongoing, when a blurb seems to make more sense since we're not talking about events that are normally being updated on a daily basis. The news should still be ITN, no question, but as a blurb in my opinion. --
MASEM (
t)
18:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support blurb This is both a tragic event in itself (71 people died in a terrible condition) and also representative of a bigger, serious problem of literally hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people fleeing the wars in the Middle East. I think we should post this, given that even a single shooting/terror attack often get posted despite having less 'weight' than this.
HaEr48 (
talk)
18:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: A milestone in health care that will have implications for other health programs in developing countries. Also a good break from all the current disasters ITN. (My first nom in this section, please bear with me.)
w.carter-Talk12:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Expanded article with a section about this. The WHO declaration was made as early as 15 May, but it did not reach the media in force until PM Modi made his speech on 27 August. I'll see if I can find some more to add, but the basics are in the article now.
w.carter-Talk19:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Nomination stale due to another most recent death. --
George Ho (
talk) 13:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Flamboyant and eccentric personality in the NBA for many years, credited/blamed for the NBA ordering redesigned basketball rims because of his propensity for
shattering the backboard with his powerful slam dunks. Death is receiving international attention.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
23:45, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support upon update/improvement. Being important to the field doesn't just mean being the greatest player, it can mean influencing the rules of the sport, as was done in this case.
331dot (
talk)
01:02, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support on improvements, definitely a significant persona within the sport of basketball. A person's legacy and impact cannot always be measured by data or measurables, and Dawkins had that sort of impact on the culture of the sport. The attention his death receives is evidence enough that people will be looking for the article at Wikipedia for more information about him. For that reason if the article is improved to minimum quality, it should be posted. --
Jayron3202:48, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Induction into a hall of fame is usually the baseline for professional athlete nominations, although that's not a requirement. I guess there's some sort of nebulous "personality of the NBA" thing going on here, but I don't see anything to objectively recommend this: no scoring titles, no league championships, no MVPs, no All-Star selections, pretty much nothing except breaking backboards. Not enough. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
03:11, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support the article is as of yet woefully underreferenced, but he was a household name even to folks like me who have never played nor followed the sport. The article also shows he paled in comparison only to players like Kareem Abdul Jabar. First player drafted out of high school and many other items point to his greatness. Not making the hall of fame by his fifties, and not winning the MVP for championships his team did not win are not reasons to oppose the nomination.
μηδείς (
talk)
04:37, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Also, not only does he pale in comparison to Abdul-Jabbar, there is absolutely no comparison to be made. In terms of accomplishments, they are in completely different universes. You may as well compare
Mario Mendoza to
Hank Aaron. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
05:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I would hope we'd post Mendoza's death to ITN. That's actually a great example: a player who wasn't incredibly talented, but who had a profound influence on the sport (Dawkins by forcing the NBA to change its conventions, Mendoza by becoming a statistical byword for borderline hitting). -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
19:40, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose purely on article quality. The main section in unsourced for its first seven paragraphs. There are only 11 sources in total, one of which is a dead link, one a passing mention and half the others are from local sources or are listings.
Black Kite (talk)19:28, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It's the reverse, actually. In 2013, ITN did not post
Sergei Belov,
Bill Sharman and
Walt Bellamy. I don't remember anyone related to basketball being posted last year, and we didn't post basketball players (we did post Tark and Dean Smith, though) this year. –HTD20:39, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The article isn't great. I also don't believe retired athletes should be posted to RD unless they are a member of their respective sport's hall of fame or at least won multiple MVPs. Calidum19:52, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[Closed] 60% of psychology studies published in top journals fail reproducibility test
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose – No article really targeted aside from the general fields of study, which is probably far too broad for this. Feels like good DYK material, but I don't know if it can be used if Psychology and Social science are the intended articles (unless of course you wish to put forth some monumental editing and get them to GA which would warrant a DYK nom).
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
19:31, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Not really news (granted I work in the field) that science is hard and that study results aren't always replicated in a follow-up study. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
19:40, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose, and probably doesn't even warrant mentioning on Wikipedia. I would imagine the number of published results that fail reproducibility tests in any experimental science is somewhere around 50-60%; the whole reason we publish results is precisely so other people can see if they can reproduce them. That the NYT engages in sloppy journalism is no reason Wikipedia should. ‑
iridescent20:19, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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A U.S. television reporter and her cameraman, Alison Parker and Adam Ward, are shot dead during a live broadcast in
Moneta, Virginia; the woman they were interviewing, Vicki Gardner, is wounded. The alleged shooter, Vester Lee Flanagan II, later uploads a video of the murder and commits suicide.
(WTKR)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Well-known and much-awarded civil rights activist who marched with Martin Luther King Jr., John Lewis, and others at Selma. Article is fairly comprehensive.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
22:24, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD. I was just on my way to nominate her. Major figure of the American Civil Rights Movement and the Selma to Montgomery Marches. Article looks properly sourced and in decent shape.
Challenger l (
talk)
23:19, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) Support RD A well known leader in the American Civil Rights movement and obvious candidate for RD. The article looks solid and I think is ready for posting subject to community consensus. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
23:23, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose seems to have led a very interesting life, hitching her wgon to two very different stars, MLK & Lyndon LaRouche, but much more to have been on the scene than to have actually accomplished anything herself.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:35, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support I don't think Medeis's suggestion that she "hitch[ed] her wagon" to Martin Luther King is in any way an accurate reflection of her significant role in the Civil Rights Movement, including in the Selma march.
Neljack (
talk)
06:41, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Mayor civil rights figure. Participated in one of the most influential movements in American History. She can be compared to Rosa Parks and Julian Bond. --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
07:55, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support, tragic story and worldwide coverage. The broadcasting of the murders live as well as the social media video make this one unique. But cue the "another shooting in the US", "journalists get killed all the time", etc. comments.
Darth nihilus 69 (
talk)
16:08, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Ignoring that this was "on air", the situation appears to be a disgruntled co-worker choosing to shoot other co-workers in revenge. If we didn't have the fact it was done on air, ITN would write this off as another unfortunate American gun incident and not significant enough to post. The fact that this happened on air is making it a spectacle, but does not change the core story, that a disgruntled employee turned to kill other employees. For the same reason we did not post the France train attack, we should not be posting this as to avoid giving into the spectacle. --
MASEM (
t)
16:12, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Tragic? Yes. Notable? Yes. Long lasting impact? No. People are murdered everyday. JOURNALISTS are murdered ALL the time and no one gives a damn about 95% of them.--
86.135.159.178 (
talk)
16:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose It has some shock factor, and the unusual circumstances may make it notable enough for a Wikipedia article, but the event is still a local, domestic crime. We don't typically post murders of otherwise non-notable individuals unless it's mass casualty.
Mamyles (
talk)
16:19, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Ambivalent I just saw the video and it is horrible. Sort of like bodycams on cops, sometimes video can do more than describing the event, and the fact that its on camera both by the station and by the shooter elevates this in a way that everyone above (save the first commenter) seems to be disregarding outright. That said, this is 'Murica, and I don't expect any changes in gun laws from this, since we couldn't when someone massacred an elementary school. So I don't know what to do with this, or anything related to guns any more. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
16:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A
Federal Security Service court in
Russia sentences
Ukrainian film director
Oleg Sentsov to 20 years in prison for plotting terrorist acts in
Crimea, amid allegations of torture and U.S. claims that he is being held hostage in Russia after having been abducted from
Ukraine by Russian-backed separatists.
(BBC)
A shooting at a Romani camp in
Roye, Somme,
France, by a suspect from the same community leaves four people killed and three others severely injured.
(The Irish Times),
(L'Express)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former chairman of the committee that awards the Nobel Peace Prize, best known for awarding Nelson Mandela (and F.W. de Klerk). Death has received international attention.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
03:20, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Career section needs expansion. It tells a lot of bodies he was a member of without actually describing the work that he did. SpencerT♦C06:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Um, perhaps I'm being dim but what
death criteria does he meet again? Being a former head of an award committee and dying after a prolonged illness, well into his late 70s, doesn't strike me as significant nor sudden.
Fuebaey (
talk)
09:11, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Criteria 2: Being selected as chairmen of the Nobel committee would probably be recognition of importance within his field. There aren't like thousands of those running around... --
Jayron3214:13, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
He has been nominated because of his presence on the committee, not because of his field. If we are regarding that as an indication of his importance and not his importance itself, I'm still not clear on how the criteria are met.
331dot (
talk)
14:20, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Right, because they just grab any-old-Joe off the street and say "Here, you get to be chairmen of the Nobel Peace Prize committee"... --
Jayron3214:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Agree that being the chairman of the committee that decides on the awards is not a significant claim of importance for RD. --
MASEM (
t)
14:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, the Turkish Foreign Minister, says that
Turkey and the U.S. will launch a "comprehensive" campaign to flush out ISIL from a zone in northern
Syria near the border. In effect, this means creating a "security zone" by sending foreign soldiers into Syrian territory.
(Reuters)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support -
Regarded as a "highly respected" driver in the series. He's also one of the more popular drivers as well. Certainly a tragic and sad moment here. May he Rest In Peace. Aerospeed (
Talk)
01:44, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose That NBC News source says "highly respected", not "highly regarded". I don't see any evidence that he meets DC#2 for being highly important in his field, and frankly a race car driver dying from injuries sustained while driving a race car isn't anything that shocking. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
01:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose RD / Strong Oppose any blurb There is no evidence indicating a level of importance satisfying ITNDC. He was a professional race car driver. One of many. His death is a tragedy but it doesn't warrant attention here. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
02:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
His death has already been given attention, VERY PROMINENTLY, by news sources. That you wish those news sources had ignored it is irrelevant. We have a quality article, and his death is being covered a lot. Readers will be looking for it. ITN is not the way in which you get to reshape culture. --
Jayron3210:29, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The inconsistency here is amazing.
Jules Bianchi, who had only been on the Formula One circuit for a year and with no wins under his belt, was prominently given a full blurb about his passing, yet Wilson, a 12-year pro who had seven wins in IndyCar and Champ Car, is being opposed for just an RD? --
Tocino03:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
You have a fair point. All I can say is I opposed that nomination too and still think it was a lapse in our standards. But making a mistake is a poor argument for repeating it. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
04:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per Tocino's argument regarding Bianchi. Wilson was himself a former F1 driver - since that was the obvious bias that led to a nobody like Bianchi getting a full blurb - and unlike Bianchi, Wilson won top level races (in IndyCar), and was a top contender for the CHAMP car titles in the mid 2000s.
Resolute04:01, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support blurb RD – Per
Tocino. If you think Wilson was "just some driver", as some who oppose seem to think, then you are proactively ignoring the mountain of sources indicating otherwise. Even before his death, there were tons of messages of concern and well-wishes from many racing communities, not just IndyCar, and ESPN broke coverage to announce both his injury and his death – two things I don't recall happening with Bianchi just last month who got a blurb with overwhelming support.
TwirlyPen (
Speakup)
04:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD - ex-F1 driver, twice a runner-up for Indycar/Champ Car title. Hundreds of drivers race around the world. He may not have won a major championship but he came pretty damn close twice and accomplished more than most other racers do with his success. I understood the Bianchi blurb to be because he was the first death from an F1 racing accident in 20 years.
Melicans (
talk,
contributions)
04:33, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment I am sorry but Jules Bianchi, which was a mistake, was not a precedent and did not abrogate the guidelines in
WP:ITNDC. None of which does this tragic death come even remotely close to satisfying. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
04:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose I am not convinced that he was a very significant figure in the field of motor racing. Nor am I persuaded by the comparison with the Bianchi blurb - Formula One is bigger internationally than IndyCar.
Neljack (
talk)
10:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – Former IndyCar and NASCAR champion Tony Stewart put his private jet at the family's disposal before the helicopter even took off from Pocono raceway. He may not have been successful, but to say he wasn't a significant figure in the field of motor racing (less solely just in IndyCar) is simply untrue. As I pointed out earlier, ESPN broke live TV coverage twice; once when he was injured & again when he passed the next day. While I agree that the comparison doesn't matter here, in Bianchi's case, the network only ran an internet story on their much-buried ESPN F1 website and had nothing on TV.
TwirlyPen (
Speakup)
10:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. He was a significant figure in motorsport, with a long career competing at the top level, and his death is very clearly in the news. 7 deaths in indycar (inc predecessors) in 20 years is hardly indicative of a frequent occurrence.
Thryduulf (
talk)
13:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment the comparison to Bianchi is not entirely fair - he was the first F1 driver to die at a GP since two fatalities in 1994, and thus ended a 20-year streak of no deaths in Formula 1. That's notable because the sport was previously known for being deadly, in the 60s and 70s F1 averaged over one death during a race a year (see
List of Formula One fatalities). On the other hand, looking at
List of Champ Car fatalities, which includes IndyCar and it's previous versions, shows that before this fatality in 2015 there were deaths during races in 2011, 2006, Oct 1999, Sep 1999, Jul 1996 and May 1996. To me that suggests IndyCar is (at least recently) an inherently more dangerous sport and thus is not directly comparable to a death in Formula 1.
131.251.253.128 (
talk)
17:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not too knowledgeable about IndyCar, so feel free to correct me. All the information was taken from the linked articles, and whilst you're correct it's also overly pedantic. Before 2015
Dan Wheldon died following an accident at the
2011 IZOD IndyCar World Championship during the race and
Paul Dana died following an accident at the
2006 Toyota Indy 300, albeit during the final pre-race practice. I purposely didn't include
Tony Renna, who died in 2003 whilst in a car but during a closed test. And then there are four other drivers listed as dying on race days (either during practice or the race itself) in the time since the last F1 fatality. It is not at all wrong to say that in the past 20 years 1 F1 driver and 7 IndyCar drivers have died whilst competing in their sport.
131.251.253.128 (
talk)
19:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose: I am not convinced that he was at the top of his field. I have never even heard of him and his death isn't highly covered here. He is not at the same level as Bianchi. His death is only tragic which is bad, but is not notable. --
TDKR Chicago 101 (
talk)
17:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support simple. if you posted Bianchi then this should be posted as well. Both non-well-known race car drivers who died and received international press. Period. The amount of opposition is the biggest load of anti-American BS, just as this site often does. The fact that Wilson probably won't even get an RD mention shows English Wikipedia's hypocrisy in what news is posted even more.
Darth nihilus 69 (
talk)
19:15, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - tragic death (though not unexpected in his risky profession), but not at the top even in the narrowly defined field of auto-racing. ITN is already heavily biased toward sports. -
Zanhe (
talk)
19:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose per Zanhe. Were this to go up, it should be as a full blurb. But I don't see it meriting that. Perhaps it's time to consider an "In sports section" below "On this day". I really don't see posting cricket tournaments and sports car crashes with the destruction of antiquities in a major regional war and worldwide market crashes.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:33, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Notable why? The whole point of commenting here is to say why he is notable, not just to assert that he's notable, that's already implied in your support vote.
μηδείς (
talk)
17:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
331dot if you could let me answer this, it is apparent for anyone with the ability to read an article that his achievements are reason enough for inclusion at RD in my opinion. And I would observe that 331dot always POV push for his opinion at ITN to be followed. As apparent here as well.. geez.. get of the high horse :)--
BabbaQ (
talk)
17:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I understand that is how you see your posts, but that is not apparent by those reading them, nor is that the role of this page; this page is to discuss the merits of the nomination, and simply saying "it's notable" does not contribute to that. It just looks like a vote. This is not 331dot's In The News so I don't get where the "POV push" claim comes from. This isn't mine nor do I want to push my views on anyone. If you wish to further discuss my conduct here, you can find my talk page.
331dot (
talk)
17:43, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Re-opening nomination - I feel this needs more discussion, even when vote amount is large. The closer said that featuring the "Jules Bianchi" blurb was a mistake, implying COI (no offense). --
George Ho (
talk)
03:17, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
None taken. I was
WP:INVOLVED and viewed the closure as non-controversial since I didn't (and still don't) see any likelihood of gaining consensus. In that circumstance anyone is free to revert a closing. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
03:24, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support While it is wildfire season and an issue for many states, this is a major one that they have been having difficulties fighting. --
MASEM (
t)
21:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – This is a big ongoing story in U.S. Pacific NW, where dozens of wildfires are still burning. (See
map.) But since loss of life has been comparatively small – compared to disasters/wars elsewhere – I'm frankly not sure it's ITN material.
Sca (
talk)
(So happens a close relative of mine just returned – safe & sound! – from two weeks of fighting fire in Wash. & Ore.)
Sca (
talk)
21:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
As noted there's a couple of fires in the same area that they are worried are going to merge into this and make the situation that much worse. Yes, last I saw there were 90-some reported wildfires in the western US, and these do happen every year, moreso with drought conditions, but this is a very severe one that is not yet over, with only 10% estimated contained. --
MASEM (
t)
21:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose We don't usually post records, especially those that change frequently. It's also a record only in a specific area of the US. If this was nominated for the event itself instead of the record (in which case the blurb should probably be changed), I'm not sure it is important enough to warrant a front page item. The target article is also a stub.
Isa (
talk)
21:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support this alone, full support a blurb that covers more of the state's wildfires. I live in Seattle now, and yesterday the forecast was for "smoke". They were not wrong: smoke from the wildfires affected us some distance from where they are occuring. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
22:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
1.3% of the state has burned down. It's no wonder Seattle's weather forecast is "smoke". (Seattle is far from anywhere that isn't like a temperate rainforest and the non-rainforest parts are the opposite direction from where Seattle's prevailing wind comes from. So this isn't common like California). Support alternate.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
22:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The article says 11,000 square miles have burned and they've had to ask the lay public to firefight with the firefighters! There's only 66,500 square miles of land in the state! And some is like a desert!
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
23:13, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Which makes no sense, since it's a figure for the whole of the United States: The fatalities came as some 29,000 firefighters, including responders from as far away as New Zealand, joined local crews in their struggles against fires that have consumed 11,000 square miles so far. Most of the ravaged land has been in Alaska, but an increase in fires in the Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Washington and California has caused competition for firefighting resources with some requests going unmet.[3]. I've changed the article accordingly.
Isa (
talk)
00:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Factoids: An area of 11,000 square miles equates approximately to the area of Belgium. Total U.S. area is 3.8 million square miles.
I am pretty much inclined to support on the simple basis of how much smoke the jet stream has shoved up into southern Alberta. Calgary feels like Beijing today with all the haze and health-deteriorating effects it is causing. Article needs major improvement before posting, however.
Resolute14:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – Although I'm a resident of one of the affected states, I remain undecided about this nom. However, please keep in mind that the "disaster" isn't limited to Washington state; it seriously affects Oregon and Idaho as well. (California, from my pt. of view, is a different region and a separate story.)
Sca (
talk)
14:24, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The blurbs are about a specific wildfire in the Washington state or the wildfires in that state as a whole. A third blurb could be proposed with the 2015 wildfire season in the United States, but there's no article for this.
Isa (
talk)
14:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support alt blurb(s). Season article is more complete, individual fire one is still sparse. Also added a second alt blurb; states of emergency are not entirely uncommon, perhaps the record-breaking fire should be emphasized instead.
C628 (
talk)
18:51, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Reverted closure by
User:LukeSurl; posted nominations aren't hard closed to keep the nomination as a workspace for the item and in case of updates; generally only closed in cases of lengthy nonproductive debate after posting. SpencerT♦C05:16, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support once merge discussion is addressed and article is expanded. Obviously a significant selloff and part of a chain of events that started earlier this year (and looks likely to continue, and possibly escalate, over the coming weeks). -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
14:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support but wait – Huge (and painful!), but we should give NYSE at least half a day's trading before posting. (Maybe a full day; it'll be tough to keep abreast of the action.)
Sca (
talk)
15:12, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
PS: We might want to say plummet rather than crash, as crash is such a loaded term in context. (Most of the wonks are calling this a correction.) In title of article, suggest crash be changed to selloff.
Sca (
talk)
15:16, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Wait, leaning oppose. This is being predicated on the result of 4 days of trading, and while numbers are swinging wildly, there's nothing to indicate a crash - as Sca points out, that is a very loaded term and nothing showing the markets having crashed, just corrected at a global scale. Even today, a 1000 pt DJ loss has been made up by half and we're not even though the day (as I write this). --
MASEM (
t)
15:26, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Changing to Weak support. While I personally think this is just a standard correction, there's enough sources out there that make this news of interest in financial markets with some analysts thinking that while this is not a major situation, it is a test of various nation's economies (like the US's) and a sign of how much of the interconnectiveness of these markets are today. --
MASEM (
t)
21:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - We'll look like fools if we post this today and the market recovers to pre-selloff levels within the week. Let's wait to see if there's any sign of a long-term trend.--
WaltCip (
talk)
15:27, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
We need to wait for a while, but if mkts continue to tank for several days it'd be highly consequential & not to be ignored. (Longer-term this could end up in ongoing.)
Sca (
talk)
15:52, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Neutral. It is interesting to see nearly every world market down 5% today, but as others say, the general volatility of the markets makes it impossible to predict the long term impacts of this. Even the article itself may be premature - i.e.: if markets rally tomorrow.
Resolute15:55, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – I've taken the liberty of renaming the target article and substituting other terms for 'crash'. Hope that meets with consensus.
Sca (
talk)
16:04, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Ongoing for Global Financial Crisis. This has been building for a while and my guess is that it is not going to end today or tomorrow. It is more than a stock market crash. It is a financial panic centered in China and the
emerging markets that is spreading to other parts of the world. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:12, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – Not yet – Dow was down 2% at 18:00 (2p NY); let's see where it closes.
Sca (
talk
If posted, the Dow should not be included in the blurb as it was not as badly affected as other international stock markets.--
WaltCip (
talk)
18:45, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It's not about the DOW or the S&P 500. It's the global economy. The emerging markets, especially China, are getting creamed and that is inciting panic globally. This really should be moved to ongoing. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
22:21, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Those U.S. market numbers indicate talk of global "free fall" was (or appears to have been) overblown. Plus, NYSE remains the biggest exchange of all.
Sca (
talk)
22:30, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Once again this is not a one day event. The S&P has gotten the snot pounded out of it in recent days. Take a look at a
30 day chart. And it has been hugely worse in China, the world's second largest economy. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
22:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support major worldwide event. The scale of the crash is tremendous; the market is in correction mode for the first time in years. Support altblurb, with grammatical error corrected: "... recording their biggest falls ..."
Banedon (
talk) 01:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC) Change to Oppose. The problem is, this kind of news should either be posted quickly or not posted at all. We've gone way too long without posting this; it's simply too late.
Banedon (
talk)
00:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. If futures are correct, DOW, NYSE and S&P will open today by recovering approximately 30% of the recent drop, and other worldwide markets have also recovered some value as of right now. By my cursory reading of the financial press, the terms "correction" and "sell-off" are being used, not "crash". China is a special case, yes, but we can't generalize that across the globe. Being the biggest drop in 7-8 years doesn't make this routine business news any more impactful than being the 7th or 8th largest merger/acquisition in a year.
128.214.53.18 (
talk)
11:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Waitleaning oppose – per above comments by 128.214.53.18. A quick glance at the going-ons also show that China is really the only major market not in recovery or expected to start recovering today. Best to give this a few more days to see how the markets react to China's actions before giving it the go ahead, in my opinion. If there's a desire to push this soon, I'd suggest tightening the focus to mostly (or only) China.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
12:16, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose: The article is much too short, itself not much better than a news blurb. The title is a question, as this should be written in hindsight after we know the hurricane has passed. We might still be in its eye. I could see a title like "Black Monday" if the MSM later uses it. I'd wait a few more days. --
Light show (
talk)
21:15, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The problem is article quality. This should obviously be posted in theory, but with editorial flourishes like "nail in the coffin" and very inconsistent and non-comprehensive writing I can't get behind posting it as is. Normally "sofixit", but I am also recovering from a two-day medical procedure and working on a Spanish format keyboard. I suspect not attempting large rewrites comes under either the "no using machinery" or the "no serious legal or business decisions" part of my instructions upon discharge today.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:28, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Yeah, target article is pretty thin. Financial writing is a specialized field. If you watch the wonks, they've got it all in their heads. Tough for a non-pro to cobble together cogently.
Sca (
talk)
21:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
But a few additions have fleshed out the article a bit. Meanwhile, NY mkts gained in bumpy early trading Wednesday.
Sca (
talk)
14:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I have taken note of the gains today, if briefly, both in the article and lede. I appreciate your improvements Sca, as material and moral support. As you note, the subject is complex.
Jusdafax01:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The article is still written from an entirely Dow Jones-centric point of view, with the world-wide crash being treated as a factor in the US stock markets. The lead takes for granted the notion that what matters is the US stock market, while the article title makes no such narrow identification of events. There were even comments from two US presidential candidates in the "reaction" section, which I have removed as undue.
μηδείς (
talk)
17:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment suggest that should this global market uncertainty continue that we add it to Ongoing. Fluctuations by China are causing ripples worldwide, but right now, it seems that the financial ruin is remaining localised.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:58, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - I have restored the deleted "Reactions" section, and have invited participation to expand it for better balance. That topic is more properly discussed on the article talk page. The elephant in the room, so to speak, is the obvious fact that a longtime ITN participant has been working for days to build this article up from a condition charitably described as dubious. An important fact: I have neither nominated it here nor taken a stand on posting it, and I invite collegial participation. I submit that if you feel the article has deficiency, that you help build it up. Again, the place to discuss the details is the article talk page, where the wider community can assist. Rightly or wrongly, I am left with the distinct impression that factors I do not chose to speculate on may be motivating some ITN editor behavior, which arguably should be addressed in a different venue. But, let's work together. Again, I sincerely ask for actual assistance in building the article, not disruptive and dismissive POV pontification and wholesale deletion of sourced sections,
Jusdafax20:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – This is a global story, but in an effort to appear non-U.S.-centric we certainly can't ignore the biggest, most influential market of all. The Dow on Wednesday surged almost 4% while the Nasdaq shot up 4.2%, indicating the dreaded selloff may not be so drastic as doomsayers forecast. Implications for world markets in the near term.
Sca (
talk)
21:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose until the article is merged with the Chinese devaluation and market crash and made suitably world-focused given its name of
2015 stock market crash. I am not opposing this on political grounds or due to the fact that after an 11% drop in three trading days there was a 4% rebound. Markets dropped world-wide, an article about the crash from the US point of view is like having an article on a comet striking the Pacific from the US view.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:41, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I have reverted your deletion of the section a second time, and again asked for your talk page participation. Given your !vote here, it appears to me you are about to cross a bright line. I call on an uninvolved admin to take note of the issues here, and to take all action needful.
Jusdafax22:17, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
On Thursday Shanghai closed up 5.3%, Hang Seng up 3.6%. In Europe, markets "climbed Thursday, tracking gains in Asian and U.S. markets," said
Market Watch.
Perhaps we should revise our blurb to something like:
Saying that the stock market crashed last week isn't speculating, it's reporting news. "The markets are volatile" - which implies that the market crashed one day, surged the next, etc - is also news material. Just take a look around CNN or Bloomberg (for example).
Banedon (
talk)
00:41, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The markets have been volatile for the past five years. That the volatility just peaked this week really does not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention, this was not a stock market crash. A crash is considered a rapid and sustained loss of volume which results in a recession or depression. That has not occurred. The only economic activity that might qualify as a crash is the drop in Chinese equities by 35%, and that story has already been posted this year. In any case, there is nothing noteworthy here to post. "The markets go down, then they go up, then they go down again, then they go up again" does not make for a particularly noteworthy ITN blurb.--
WaltCip (
talk)
11:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
"The markets have been volatile for the past five years" - not true. Take a look at the stock chart for VIX, which is the volatility index. There is a definite spike in the past month. Last time the markets were this volatile was in late 2011. Otherwise, major indices worldwide recorded their greatest falls since 2008. Whether or not to call that a crash is a matter of semantics and opinion.
Banedon (
talk)
13:14, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Altblurb 4 - By far the best choice. The market turmoil with wide swings not seen in years has been a real, global event, and may not be over yet. It has been in the headlines for days now, around the world. The target article, which I have given a bit of my time to, can stand further additions and balance, but I can certainly vouch for the sourcing.
Jusdafax14:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose A market "correction" is entirely normal, and the extent of this global fall (~10%) can be expected every 1-2 years. This is the first major correction in five years, but that only makes it less surprising. If something about this is posted, I would prefer it to focus on the
Chinese market crash, which is an eye-popping 35%. The 2nd biggest investment market crashing is much bigger news than a global correction.
Mamyles (
talk)
14:21, 27 August 2015 (UTC)reply
On Friday Shanghai gained 4.8%, while the Hang Seng slid 1%. In Japan the Nikkei 225 rose 3%. European markets were generally flat, although the FTSE managed a 0.9% gain. U.S. markets also were flat.
Sca (
talk)
20:34, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose This is no longer "in the news", especially since equity markets have rallied strongly in recent days. Also for an article that purports to be about a global phenomenon, it focuses too heavily on US stockmarkets. Also 2 of the 3 comments in the "reactions" section are from a US businessman and a US state politician, which again do not reflect a worldwide view of the topic.
Stockst (
talk)
14:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'd agree that the story is cold. If the turmoil returns we can take another look. Frankly, I was surprised at the near-complete lack of assistance I got in working on the article. So be it, suggest we close.
Jusdafax05:28, 30 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominated by [[User:
120.62.27.66 (
talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)|
120.62.27.66 (
talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)]] ([[User talk:
120.62.27.66 (
talk) 11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)|talk]] ·[{{fullurl:User talk:
120.62.27.66 (
talk)
11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/preload_credit&preloadtitle=ITN+recognition+for+%5B%5B2015+Pro+Kabaddi+League+season%5D%5D§ion=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=2015+Pro+Kabaddi+League+season&preloadparams%5b%5d=nominated}} give credit])reply
Nominator's comments: Minority sport it is, but there are many other sports on ITNR that are smaller. In a country of 1 billion+ that's no mean feat. Plus Mumbai winning T20 (posted on ITN a few months ago), semi-finalists in cricket (which ought to be ITNR along with the Welsh/english domestic cricket) and kabaddi only leaves hockey to conquer (arguably the Asian tennis tournament can count too). That is like a city winning \all the big 4 in the USA (of which all 4 are ITNR)
120.62.27.66 (
talk)
11:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on article quality. Virtually no prose in the entire article. Needs significant expansion with narrative and explainers. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
14:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Regretful oppose while I'd love to see such a minority and unusual sport at ITN, I can't support this because the article is inadequate, mainly a whole bunch of tables and scorelines.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
15:10, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Al-Qaeda militants take over parts of the strategic southern Yemeni port city of
Aden. The militants reportedly raised their black flag above the city's port and government buildings. The city was recaptured by pro-government forces last week.
(Reuters)
Britain and
Iran reopen embassies in each others' capitals that had been closed after Iranian protesters stormed the British embassy on November 29, 2011.
(Reuters)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose - This is a footnote. If he was truly that notable, he would have had an article long before now. I don't see what makes him more significant than any of the other survivors, aside from living longer than most. Since there is still one remaining survivor, it seems especially difficult to claim longevity as a point of notability here. The (now) sole remaining survivor, Dick Churchill, still doesn't have an article. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
02:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I've struck an incorrect portion of my oppose. I didn't notice that the article was created in August 2014, not just recently. My mistake. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
02:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)reply
[Withdrawn] RD: Augusta Chiwy
As advised, withdrew nomination. But if you want to support, feel free to revert closure. --
George Ho (
talk) 22:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A nurse among thousands of nurses volunteered to nurse many American soldiers back to health, according to news articles. --
George Ho (
talk)
11:06, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
To clarify the rationale, Chiwy was knighted by Belgium in 2011 in recognition for her volunteer work nursing allied forces during the Battle of the Bulge in WWII, and was briefly portrayed in a fictionalized manner in Band of Brothers.
μηδείς (
talk)
17:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Hi
George. It sounds like you are no longer all that enthusiastic about the nomination. You can always withdraw it and do an early close as long as there aren't a bunch of support votes. FTR if the nomination remains open I will likely oppose. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
17:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: The latest cultural crime against humanity by these savages misunderstood people lacking jobs and educational opportunities.
Ad Orientem (
talk)
02:21, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The nominator would be well-advised to use the nomination statement to explain the significance of the event rather than to engage in provocative political commentary.
Neljack (
talk)
05:03, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. Topic links back to a very good article about an esoteric subject that readers would not otherwise encounter on a typical news website. I agree with MASEM regarding the linked article as well. I also added an altblurb that's a little more concise and incorporates the new blurb.
128.214.53.18 (
talk)
05:20, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support A news reporting the destruction of a UNESCO World Heritage Site should go on the main page immediately. Also, proposed blurbs should be amended to include the uncovered
truth that the USA admittedly support ISIS in what they do. A blurb saying Syrian government officials report that the
Islamic State supported by the
United States of America have destroyed the Temple of Baalshamin in the ancient city of
Palmyra. is more comprehensive to me.--
Droneanddrone (
talk)
06:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. Something of cultural significance has been irreversibly destroyed. Prefer alt blurb, since it doesn't mention "Syrian authorities".
Banedon (
talk)
07:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support altblurb: You would think that after reaching comic-book-villain levels of odiousness, these guys would be content, but they just keep managing to outdo themselves. I don't think mentioning the Syrian government (which is not a reliable source) is necessary in the blurb and it should be avoiding. Whatever nonsense the drive-by was spewing up there about the United States supporting ISIL (by repeatedly bombing them and training/arming their enemies?) can be safely disregarded as well, but that should go without saying. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
07:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support A criminal organisation masquerading itself as a religious state blows up relics from a civilization that was far more advanced and civilized than their own - from 2000+ years ago. Sigh.--
109.149.122.34 (
talk)
12:20, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – I'd support too, as a flagrant act of psychopathic nihilism, but I'm wondering whether it's consequential enough for ITN (particularly when we seem to be ignoring the global market selloff that affects millions).
Sca (
talk)
13:30, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Sahrawi musician of some repute. Death mostly receiving coverage in Spanish-language media, but her English-language Wikipedia article is actually pretty darn good, with just a bit of cleanup needed. Certainly at the top of her field as a Western Sahara music artist, and an "interesting" death in that she passed away while residing in a refugee camp.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
04:37, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support; seems to meet DC2 for her field. Some minor improvement needs to be made(few citations I think) but the article is not too bad.
331dot (
talk)
07:56, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
An incident in the
Quetzaltepeque penitentiary in
El Salvador leaves fourteen members of the Barrio 18 street gang killed; the killings are believed to be a result of a power struggle within the gang.
(Reuters via Yahoo)
Closed as stale. Someone else died most recently. --
George Ho (
talk) 20:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. I don't see how she meets the RD criteria. The page states she was influential to the Khmer Rouge but I'm not clear on how or if it is significant.
331dot (
talk)
19:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD The article could be a bit more clear in its specifics, but it does indicate that there was strong evidence implicating her in genocide and crimes against humanity. I also note a strong bias in the media and elsewhere against reporting/discussing atrocities committed by the far left. It's a systemic bias that is by default reflected here on ITN. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
That might make her meet DC1 (significant impact) so I will strike my oppose; but are we saying she is notable because she was probably a war criminal, since she was never convicted? Article would need some work, too.
331dot (
talk)
19:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD A top figure in one of the most gruesome, anti-human regimes that this planet has ever had the misfortune to nourish. She was not convicted, but that was due to dementia hampering the trial (as a Brit I can say there is a similar modern case where that is also the problem...)
'''tAD''' (
talk)
20:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Article is entirely unclear about her role in the Khmer Rouge regime. I'd be apt to reconsider my !vote if the article is improved to include more information about her life during the "Democratic Kampuchea" years. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
21:00, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Marriage to someone infamous does not guarantee your infamy or notability - she seems to have been a politician during the Khmer Rouge, but not a prominent one, judging from the article.
Challenger l (
talk)
00:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Comment good work on those getting an article up to scratch, there's clear consensus here and the minimum requirements have been met, it's ready to be posted.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
17:31, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Posted bad form, yes, but sue me. I'm not looking for any badges or anything, but this has absolute support, the article is sufficient, it's prominent, it needs to be posted. Should another admin decide that I've overstepped, then feel free to revert, block and ignore me.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:48, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
If I'm not mistaken, a recent discussion established that it's fine for involved administrators to post ITN items with obvious consensus (such as this one). —
David Levy21:26, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Post-posting comment – For non-British and/or non-European readers, suggest we make it the A-27 expressway, roadway or whatever the appropriate UK term would be. (Trunk road?)
Sca (
talk)
21:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
David Levy Actually the road is fundamental to this story, the fatalities would have been far lower if the aircraft hadn't struck a number of passing vehicles on the A27 so I would respectfully ask for that to be replaced so it also does not imply that the fatalities were at the airshow itself.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
06:24, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I've inserted "onto a busy road", which I believe conveys the detail's significance without placing unnecessary emphasis on the particular thoroughfare involved. I selected this description after finding it in relevant articles published in multiple countries (including the UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand and the US). —
David Levy08:18, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: "Great player just died" --Quoth the IP that added this header without a template. I suspect that an RD is more appropriate than blurb here as he was 93. The article is a FA and he was clearly very important in his field, although I am not a cricket aficionado.
Everymorning(talk)02:16, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Morris was one of the great opening batsmen and perhaps the outstanding player on the famous Invincibles' tour of England in 1948. He very often features when "all-time Australian XIs" are picked. Article is obviously in excellent condition.
Neljack (
talk)
02:27, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: Obvious notability as an outstanding athlete, and a great article in excellent shape. Maybe needs a more substantial death update if possible, but that can be addressed. Let's get this one posted ASAP. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
05:34, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Britain'sInformation Commissioner's Office orders
Google, Inc. to remove, from its search engines, links to news stories about Google's implementation of a "
right to be forgotten" request, that include identifying information about a decade-old shoplifting conviction, which the Information Commission's Office considers as being no longer relevant. The order applies only in the United Kingdom.
(Irish Examiner)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:2015 Thalys attack (
talk·history·tag) Blurb: Gunman opens fire on an Amersterdam-Paris international trian near
Arras, France. (
Post) Alternative blurb: Three Americans and one Briton subdue the Moroccan perpetrator of the attack in the train to Paris, ending with five injuries, including the perpetrator himself. Alternative blurb II: Four people subdue the perpetrator of the attack in the train to Paris, ending with five injuries, including the perpetrator himself. Alternative blurb III: An attack in the train to Paris ends with five injuries when four people subdue the perpetrator, who becomes one of injured. News source(s):BBC Credits:
Nominator's comments: There were no deaths, which will make some people oppose this, but if it wasn't for the actions of three US Marines who happened to be on the train (and on the right place on the train too) this would likely have been a very deadly attack. It has been branded a terrorist attack and the suspect was known to the French authorities. If someone else had nominated this I would probably only weakly support it, but there haven't been a lot of nominations of late so it's worth testing the waters.
Thryduulf (
talk) 00:59, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:59, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose good faith nomination. There were no deaths. I agree that the news cycle is a bit slow and might be willing to give a weak nod to some stories that in a busier cycle probably would not make the cut, but I am sick of the endless train of terror attacks on ITN. On a side note;
Bravo Zulu to the Marines. Semper Fi!
Ad Orientem (
talk)
01:25, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The article can't be linked on the Front Page while it is tagged for AfD. Since that is likely to take a week or so this nomination is effectively dead. If it survives AfD I would suggest a DYK nomination. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
01:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The AFD may be closed early if sufficient consensus emerges for a keep or delete, so this is not a definite impediment to the nomination here.
Mjroots (
talk)
08:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support a lack of death toll is not necessarily equating to a lack of notability. This is ITN/C, the event is in the news, and is the top story for many news outlets. Article is being bashed into shape, sourcing is good.
Mjroots (
talk)
08:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Fortunately not too serious an incident. However, I do not believe that it should be possible to sink an ITN nomination by tagging it for AfD. It's quite reasonable for us to debate this nomination, and it's no reflection on the good faith of either nominator that the other's proposal exists.
AlexTiefling (
talk)
08:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I fundamentally disagree that this was not a serious incident - just because nobody was killed does not reduce the significance or seriousness of a heavily armed man, known to authorities, attempting to murder a large number of people on a train as an act of terrorism. If it had been foiled in advance by security services you would have a point, but the only reasons nobody was killed was through sheer luck. I don't really know how it could be more serious actually.
Thryduulf (
talk)
13:30, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. I thought this was likely yet another boring terrorist attack (another bombing in an insurrection/war zone like Iraq or Syria or something) but finally read about it and this one actually is interesting. And how often do AK-47s shoot people in the neck on high speed trains in such a civilized country? So what if it's a slow news period, people can tell by reading the headlines and will forgive reality for being so boring (semi-snarky on the word boring). It's better than having 2 week old news at the bottom (as has happened before).
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
14:32, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
<Oppose - The article's in good condition, and the incident is notable. However, this is totally overemphasized, especially in Western media. We must avoid repeating ITN's overemphasis on something minor and less significant, even if terrifying, as we did to the
2014 Sydney hostage crisis.
George Ho (
talk)
15:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Belgian security ran
anti-terror operations in January after
Amedy Coulibaly bought automatic weapons for attacks in France - the fact that a man on the highest security watchlist managed to take an AK, 9 magazines and a pistol onto a train is ITN worthy because it's an indictment on French and Belgian security. If the man's rifle had not jammed there could have been a significant death toll. --
Callinus (
talk)
17:40, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks, but no thanks. It's a story of what could have been, we don't normally use a
crystal ball to determine "how bad it could have been", the point is that it was a nothing moment, a good job those blokes helped out, but it's already fading from the news, basically because it can't compete with the regular mass shootings we see from the US. That's just a fact, by the way, it's not a POV.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:10, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I guess it was because if he'd succeeded he'd have killed 290 people? I'm not sure. The point is that such clumsy and indolent attempts at terrorism shouldn't be even really acknowledged. Move on folks, this is small fry.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:07, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry, this is a relatively minor event that is getting a lot of attention, mostly for emotional reasons. It's long term significance is likely to be trivial at most. I stand by my oppose !vote. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
00:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support assuming article quality. There's no question we'd post this had three Frenchman and a German subdued a gunman on an American Airlines flight.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong support - the fact that there were no fatalities is exactly why it is newsworthy - if they had not stopped him, he would have slaughtered everyone on that train. They had nowhere to hide and nowhere to go. The train crew members immediately locked themselves in the engine car and would not come out.
—МандичкаYO 😜
02:05, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong support per User:Wikimandia. And yes, it wouldnt be a story if it hadn't happened in a Western country. But thats because its not a normal event in the Western world, yet.
Christian75 (
talk)
07:57, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose, terrorists attacks happen daily around the world with larger scales and impact. Support would be heavily western centered and
FUD based.
Yug(talk)10:28, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – This interesting episode has gotten a lot of
hype – especially in NW Europe – because of its dramatic nature, but that doesn't make the results any more significant.
Sca (
talk)
13:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Agree with Yug on this, this is heavily FUD material that wouldn't get close to similar elevation in the news if it didn't happen in a non-Western country. --
MASEM (
t)
14:40, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment agree with
Sca. This is a sexy tabloid story with no real eventuality. Some people acted to save themselves and others, and that was brave and honourable and all that, but nothing beyond that actually happened. If this has a lasting impact on the way people travel on trains in France, we could reconsider. There are millions of railway stations in the world, most of which you could step into with a bag bristling with AKs etc. Nothing more to say here.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:35, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Word that the four are to be awarded the Legion d'Honneur is a nice feel-good touch but doesn't really change anything, either.
Sca (
talk)
21:23, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Which is that a guy was prevented from mass murder. Happens every day, right? How sad I feel for you, that no one was killed. But take heart. There will be another deadly terrorist attack soon, somewhere. ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→
02:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I think if you believe your own security forces then yes, attacks are prevented every day, just behind the scenes. This is a fine DYK opportunity, but the clock is ticking.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
05:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Interesting story, but not significant enough. Shooting incidents in the Western world aren't uncommon and receive undue media attention.
117.192.189.87 (
talk)
11:46, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Macedonia declares a state of emergency and deploys police units on its borders as immigrants from the
Middle East, mainly from Syria and Iraq, block the railway line between
Thessaloniki and
Skopje.
(The News Hub)
North and
South Korea exchange artillery fire over the border at
Yeoncheon, prompting South Korea to order evacuations of its citizens in the area.
(Sky News),
(BBC)
The
Israeli Army fires
Spike missiles on
Syrian Army positions in the
Golan Heights' Quneitra area in response to several rockets fired from Syria which landed in villages in northern Israel, about 20 km from the border.
(BBC)
Thai police say that they suspect that at least 10 people were involved in planning the attack on the
Erawan Shrine, but that international terrorists were unlikely to have been involved.
(BBC)
Former
Subway pitchman
Jared Fogle reaches a
plea deal with
U.S. federal prosecutors in
Indianapolis. Fogle will plead guilty to possessing and distributing
child pornography and traveling across state lines to have sex with at least two teenage girls. Under the deal, he will serve from 5 to 12½ years in prison, and will also pay $1.4 million in restitution to 14 victims.
(CNN)
The U.S.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reports that July was the hottest month globally since
record keeping began in 1880. Global temperatures were 1.46°F (0.81°C) warmer than the 20th century average. NOAA scientists expect 2015 will go down as the warmest year on record.
(CBS News),
(NOAA)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: The resignation of a head of state seems like a very big deal, and the BBC is treating it that way--despite the fact that I live in the US, when I go to the BBC News's homepage this is the main story. Sorry for my abysmal lack of understanding of the organization of Greece's government.
Everymorning(talk)19:23, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose good faith nom. He is resigning in order to call new elections. This sort of thing is pretty routine in countries that have a parliamentary system. We usually post the election results. On a side note; he is not the head of state. He is the Prime Minister. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ad Orientem (
talk •
contribs)
19:35, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. If he was resigning and leaving office, it might be more notable, but as Ad Orientem states this is routine; he called elections to seek the Greek electorate's endorsement.
331dot (
talk)
20:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support He's the Prime Minister of a crucial state in the Eurozone debt crisis. That may not be a common piece of news at the moment, but it's never far from the surface either. Worth featuring.
Banedon (
talk)
01:08, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose We post election results but not that an election is scheduled. {{Greek elections}} shows it's fairly common to have parliamentary elections in the same or consecutive years. He only wants the resignation to be a temporary sort of formality in the leadup to the election. He is running as party leader and prime minister candidate in the election in a month. If he loses then that will be his real fall from power.
PrimeHunter (
talk)
05:14, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Wait until/if he actually leaves office. My understanding is this is just a parliamentary maneuver to trigger early elections. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:43, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Comment – Important figure widely known among those interested in recent German history. (In the long run, he was right about Wandel durch Annäherung.) I'd support, but I don't honestly know if he's known to a wider audience.
Sca (
talk)
14:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on article quality. Whether or not I have heard of him would be irrelevant, he's clearly an important figure, as I read his Wikipedia article. However, there's major referencing problems we need to deal with before putting a BLP (or BRDP if you will) on the main page. --
Jayron3216:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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A
Boko Haram attack last week on a northeastern
Nigerian village, Yadin Kukuwa killed at least 151 people. News of the attack was slow to emerge because the militants destroyed telecom masts around the village.
(The Independent),
(AFP via Times Live)
Fighting resumes in
South Sudan after the failure to reach a deal between tribes loyal to the president and tribes loyal to the former vice-president.
(AP via Fox News)
Samsung Bioepis Co., a drug development arm of global giant
Samsung, picks four banks to manage an IPO it plans for the United States in 2016.
(Reuters)
The United States announces that it is proposing sanctions against those connected to the South Sudan conflict, unless a ceasefire is reached promptly.
(Al Jazeera)
Law and crime
Following a July 15 hacking, user data of the infidelity-promoting dating website
Ashley Madison is leaked with over 30 million users having their information compromised.
(BBC)
Police in the U.S. city of
St. Louis, Missouri make nine arrests and use
tear gas to disperse protesters after a killing of an armed man allegedly aiming a gun at police officers earlier in the day.
(CNN)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Since this is not getting support, I'll consider writing something for DYK. A separate article will probably be a better choice. Closing this one then. --Tone21:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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So, this is an unusual nomination, intended to bring some diversity to the recently disaster-filled ITN. Nevertheless, we did post something similar a couple of years ago, I believe it was the Metropolitan opera orchestra playing in Pyongyang, but this is the first time that a Western rock group held a concert there. Which is especially interesting given the nature of the band itself. Covered widely in media in July when this was announced as well. The update is thin at the moment but I'm planning to work on it when I get some feedback. --Tone07:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Ok, yes, that news came shortly after. If this escalates, it has a higher ITN priority, definitely. Still, I'd like to see some more feedback. --Tone12:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose: Not all that notable of a group, and a fairly arbitrary bit of trivia. A political stunt by the North Korean regime, obviously. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:10, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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[Closed] Eston Kohver
This is a good faith nomination, the political issue is the issue. The problem is that this is not yet become a dispute on the level we would cover. If it is formally brought before NATO or declared an act of war by Estonia it can be reposted.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: Russia entered a neighboring country and kidnapped an officer, then prosecuted him as a spy, is a serious breach of international peace. Russia's claims of course should have very little weight - the Russian border troops agreed with the Estonian interpretation, and Russia has shown that they are willing to serially lie about Ukraine without shame.
Thue (
talk)
15:50, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose In the grand scheme of alleged abuses by the Russian government this is pretty small potatoes. We don't normally post these kinds of small scale criminal acts which occur in many other places. And I concur with
WaltCip that this is a nakedly political nomination. I seriously considered either a speedy close or just deleting it outright. If someone else were to do so, I would not complain.
Thue may wish to take a look at
WP:AGENDA. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
18:04, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
"Small scale criminal acts"? That is an absolutely absurd description of a high-level international dispute. I question your judgement based on that formulation.
Thue (
talk)
18:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I stand by my assessment. Look around at what other countries do to their neighbors at various times, some of which is much worse and 99% of which we don't post. This is borderline trivial and the nominating statement sounds like an anti-Russian rant. This is not the place for that. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
22:33, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
This is big politics between nation-states. I do think that there is a clear right and wrong in this case, but that does not stop it from being real important news.
Thue (
talk)
18:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
We don't post saber-rattling from North Korea every time they threaten to nuke Seoul and the USA off the face of the earth, because it happens with such frequency as to be considered a tacit part of their day-to-day operations. Similarly, Russia engaging in this sort of political posturing is not newsworthy for ITN.--
WaltCip (
talk)
18:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose I agree with the sentiment that Russian political skirmishes are quite frequent and not generally significant enough to post to ITN. When I initially read this nomination I thought it was about an Estonian government minister. I misread - he's an
intelligence officer, and the article possibly falls foul of
WP:BLP1E. "Allegedly abducted" is non-neutral for the blurb and should be omitted. The rest of the nom is unashamedly partisan (that the news reports are more tempered is saying something), which is off-putting if this is a serious ITN candidate.
Fuebaey (
talk)
20:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose per the reasons stated; this seems a relatively minor international dispute. Estonia (and by extension NATO) is not going to go to war over this.
331dot (
talk)
21:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Fighting intensifies near the ceasefire line in eastern
Ukraine with both the
Government of Ukraine and the rebels blaming each other. The separatist-held cities of
Donetsk and
Horlivka have been bombed with hundreds of shells and rockets in the last 72 hours.
(The New York Times)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Weak oppose only because his actual date of death is unclear. From what I've heard, he may have died late last year, with the death only being confirmed now. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
14:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose a footmark in history, no different from a lieutenant drug kingpin. Not a sitting head of state, and certainly not important in the field of barbarity.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:25, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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[Closed] Ashley Madison data breach
No consensus. There are a lot of !votes and it looks to be split pretty evenly with cogent arguments on both sides. It seems very unlikely we are going to come to an agreement on this one. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
06:39, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: Major news throughout North America, where the site mainly operated. In addition to the tawdry nature of a story involving a website where people go to cheat on their spouses, this is being viewed as a watershed moment for online privacy concerns and the "hacktivist" movement:
[7][8][9]Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Haha, 1/6th of this continent's married people are on this adultery site alone. Don't euphemize, it's not a dating and infidelity website, it's a site for finding an adulterer you don't know without going out alone during bar hours to make it less obvious. If I recall it even says that unmarrieds are less likely to get contacted cause they want someone who's taking as much risk as they are.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
16:32, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Undecided this is a major breach of information that highlights the need for improved data security. I just don't know if this story reaches the ITN level though, since a lot of people will dismiss it because the victims of this hack "had it coming" or whatever. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
17:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Surely there were other major cybersecurity breaches in the past that were more deserving of posting than this particular story?--
WaltCip (
talk)
17:51, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose It's a privacy breach, unfortunately, but as only the 4 last digits of CCs used were stored and no SS #s , it is far less troublesome than other data breeches. As a private non-financial company, this is just something that is a bad business practice but not the issue that if a bank or CC company or gov't server got hacked. --
MASEM (
t)
20:12, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
To add a few points: I consider myself very net-centric and while I do not use any of these dating/matchmaking sites I'm aware of the major ones, and I (and many other similar savvy people that I've read on this) never heard of this site until this breach. A site that claims to have >30 M users (a non-trivial fraction of people in NA) without any larger known presence seems very odd, albeit their business approach would beg for discrete coverage. I also think that this is on the front pages of newssites not because it being a privacy breach but because it is a breach of data about potentially well-known/famous/respect people that may possibly trying to engage in infidelity, which I would put at the same level of news fascination as the nude photos from the Apple cloud leak or the Sony Pictures hack, which starts to get into the scandalous nature of the situation ("Hey, well-known person John Q Smith has an account, he must be cheating on his wife!") Again, I stress that we're not talking about a major financial institution or the leak of any usable financial data, which is what can be more disastrous. --
MASEM (
t)
16:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
1. It's an illicit site. Not cannabis or murdering illicit but people aren't going to talk about it as much as something that's socially acceptable (I don't know what Socal or Las Vegas is like but in the rest of the US adultery is not as accepted as casual sex or cannabis or killing fetuses or gay marriage or something like that). It's not like they advertise (much?). I'm not sure if I've ever seen an Internet ad that's not while, uh, watching pornography (and maybe not even on porn sites). They tried the #1 US sports league ads and Toronto streetcar ads and making a Singapore site and they were all flatly denied (they then offered to subsidize the Toronto transit fare and were denied again).
2. It apparently costs money to delete profiles but not to "hide" them. If someone found a good mistress and doesn't use the site again cause they charge by the minute (literally, for chat) then their name and fetishises and stuff is still leaked even though they only used the site for a month or three many years ago (it's a turn of the century website). This is unlike dating sites where people get new girlfriends every few months or years and some are completely free so they're used a lot more per million accounts.
3. I forgot if you're from the Old World or not but the UK has its own adultery site. Why would they use ours? It's not surprising to have not heard of it if you're not in the US or Canada (and maybe if you are).
4. In the US there is almost no credit card risk if you report the loss promptly. Also, the gov't lets you get a new SSN if there's evidence of it being used in fraud. While it might cause anxiety having to wait up to the rest of your life to see if you'll get identity theived or not at least you can get a new one as soon as that happens. (This is because the government was stupid and only put 9 digits so there's only a billion of them) If your data was leaked here however you could lose an election, lose your job, lose your spouse, lose your kids or even be forced out of office (or maybe not, as Clinton has shown). This leak approaches 10 million large pages so people are combing the data for high-profile names as we speak.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
21:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support A significant enough event in my opinion, especially considering the number of people affected. Not so good is the blurb linking to Ashley Madison only. Perhaps link to the subsection on the data breach? Support alternative blurb.
Banedon (
talk)
01:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - I disagree that this is nothing more than cheap tabloid news. Yes, it's a morally unsavory website and many people would rather laughingly circlejerk about how these cheaters "had it coming" than treat it as a serious newsworthy societal event, and that's okay, I understand that. But the fact of the matter is that this is still a major and significant privacy breach that's getting a significant amount of serious news coverage from major sources. I'm not sure how anyone can argue that it's not really a big deal because *arbitrarily selected piece of information* wasn't revealed.
Swarm♠04:08, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment needs expansion on the analysis ('123456' was most popular password) and ethics of the release - the names of fuckwits will be on the internet for many years to come. Some of these people were in Middle Eastern countries where adultery is punishable by death. --
Callinus (
talk)
08:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support posting, but please reword blurb. "Infidelity website" sounds very strange and probably isn't the most neutral phrasing we could use. -
OldManNeptune⚓10:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Well it's certainly not neutral to call it a dating website. It says "Life is short. Have an affair!®" right in the logo! And the "O" of ASHLEY MADISON® in the logo is replaced with a wedding ring. I wouldn't call it an affair site because singles can have love affairs. So "adultery site".
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
14:10, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I was thinking more along the lines of simply calling it an adult site. The exact nature of, much less value judgements on, the content of adult sites goes beyond our scope in all directions. -
OldManNeptune⚓01:29, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
After mucho consideration, I support - on two fronts. One, this is technology news which we rarely post on ITN, as this is a hacking of rather grand scale. Two, this is social news, in that it has the potential for the uprooting of many human relationships. To my knowledge, we haven't really posted anything social news related on ITN.--
WaltCip (
talk)
11:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support - Major data breach, widely reported. Just because people want to take the moral high ground, doesn't mean we shouldn't post it.
Fgf10 (
talk)
11:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Right, a data breach is a data breach. If it's large (1/10th of North America's population in fact) and sensitive information then why should it matter who's info is?
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
14:10, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Bleve that would be more like 1/20th. Officially, pop. of
N. Am. was 565.3 M in 2013 – about half in U.S. & Canada. (Reportedly, it's 1/11th or 1/12th of U.S. + Canada pop.)
Sca (
talk)
14:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Sometimes North America excludes Latin America. I guess that'd not qualify as a continent then, except geopolitically. Presumably 1/11th or 1/12th accounts for some users not being in Canada (like the site) or the US. Only 3/4ths or so are over 18 so that's a large segment of the population that's affected. It looks like their policy of charging money just to delete a profile but not to "hide" it has come back to bite them.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
15:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Not at all, I'm suggesting that this one is trivial. A bunch of cuckolds getting caught in the act is hardly going to shake the universe. Would Wikileaks be bothered by this kind of tabloid hype or would it focus on genuine violations of human rights, murders, etc?
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:27, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - Item is widely in the news, international interest, has unusual implications. Article regarding the breach itself appears decent, and I have included an altblurb proposal that is shorter and includes that article link in bold.
Jusdafax19:45, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It's not a dating website (at least, not any more than Wikipedia is a biography database). Even many Americans probably haven't heard of it so call it an adultery website lest they think it's like Match.com or something.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
21:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The executive director of the Louisiana Republican Party (a state 14th out of 51 in Romney votes (57.9%)) spent $175.98 on the site. He admits it but claims that he was only there for "opposition research".
Business Insider. That's all we have so far.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
13:13, 22 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose There are plenty of other recent data breaches that are much worse: the attack on
Target "compromised as many as 110 million customers"
[11] (including credit card numbers)
[12]; the hack on the
US Office of Personnel Management's security clearance system leaked up to 1.1 million records that included fingerprints
[13] and
Anthem's hack had 80 million records, including social security numbers and income data
[14]. I suspect this is all over the news because of some people's voyeuristic tendencies. It doesn't belong on the front page.
Isa (
talk)
00:39, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment I feel like we should not place much importance on the fact that this data breach is for Ashley Madison, but rather the fact that it's a data breach that affects 30 million people. Who's to say for example that some of the people involved may not be
polyamorous? It's not ours to make moral judgments of what other people think fidelity in marriage should or should not be.
Banedon (
talk)
01:18, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Described by the Los Angeles Times as "a world-renowned scholar of antiquities" and by NBC as "one of Syria's most prominent antiquities scholars".
[15] Seems to have been pretty important in his field.
Everymorning(talk)13:47, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on article quality: Good to see an article has been created for him, but it's the stubbiest of stubs. No way we can post this without substantial article expansion. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
No doubt that the article is much improved. However, I reluctantly remain opposed while the "death" section is longer than his entire biography. Are there sources, especially those predating his death, in any language that could be used to expand on his life and work? Pardon the crass comparison of human to animal, but this feels a bit like the case of
Cecil the lion who became famous in death though he was rather little-known in life. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
19:59, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Conditional Support - definitely a highly notable death (archaeologist executed by terrorists), unfortunately the article is only a stub. -
Zanhe (
talk)
01:16, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose unless someone can explain how this is significant. Is it evidence of extraterrestrial life? Probably not. Does it reveal something exciting and previously unknown about the origins of the Moon? I'm not sure about that. Does it suggest that enterprising businesses could figure out a way to turn the surface of the Moon into a gigantic illuminated sign? Hmm... -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Who has said they are? Most business related nominations involve the reporting of the transaction announcement, not simply the press release.
331dot (
talk)
19:51, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
For youse guys' information, The problem with the proposed purchase of Time Warner by Comcast was almost certainly never going to happen, and it
didn't.
μηδείς (
talk)
01:21, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose per above comments. Significance is not at all clear. I remain open to reconsideration if the nomination rational and sourcing issues are improved. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:36, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose The sourcing isn't the issue (I don't get the aversion here of primary sources, they are often the best sources in science), but it's hardly world shocking news.
Fgf10 (
talk)
21:38, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Interesting piece of information, even if not immediately significant. This may not be a groundbreaking discovery, but groundbreaking discoveries are built on fundamental work like this one.
Banedon (
talk)
00:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose this is the confirmation of the detection of trace amounts of a gas which would be expected to be produced by nuclear decay of radioactive elements. It's absence would have been unexpected. It's not at all unexpected. It's simply the first time we've looked with a sophisticated enough instrument.
μηδείς (
talk)
01:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Just wanted to point out that the detection of the Higgs boson is similar to what you wrote in many ways: its existence is predicted by the Standard model, and it was only detected because it's the first time we looked for it with a sufficiently sophisticated instrument.
Banedon (
talk)
04:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
We already know neon is produced by radioactive decay, we know its properties, and it was not just predicted to exist in small quantities as it leaked out of the moon's crust, it was fully expected, to the point of not finding it fit with no theories. The value of the Higg's boson was an unknown (although a certain range was predicted) and it's non-existence was considered a possibility. The analogy is between the discovery of neon itself and of the Higgs boson, not between the discovery of neon leaking from the moon and the existence and nature of the Higgs boson.
μηδείς (
talk)
16:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The non-existence of anything that has not been detected is always a possibility, e.g. there were topless models of particle physics before the top quark was discovered, and things like TeVeS and MOND deal with the non-existence of dark matter. Most physicists will say that dark matter probably exists, and a direct identification of dark matter would be 'fully expected' in that sense - but if dark matter were conclusively identified today, it would still be news-worthy to me (not to mention Nobel Prize-worthy). That said, it's your opinion, so I'm dropping this thread of thought.
Banedon (
talk)
01:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - it is notable because, until now, studies had shown the existence of only two gases in abundance (helium and argon) in the lunar atmosphere. With this confirmation, there's a third. What's the point in asking for its significance/use? If a new element is discovered on earth, do we check if that element is "exciting" or useful to mankind and then post the blurb? In this case, the discovery itself is significant. It is an interesting piece of scientific news; two of the linked articles are GA. I don't see why this shouldn't be on ITN.
1.39.60.68 (
talk)
12:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Which are also the products of radioactive decay. There's a reason why it's 100,000,000,000,000 times thinner than Earth's atmosphere. It's barely an atmosphere if it's just atoms circumnavigating the entire Moon in a few bounces before hitting any gas particle. And probably bouncing high enough to escape the Moon after only a few gas atom hits needing to be constantly replaced with new alpha particles and decay products of potassium and sodium and stuff.. Though if it's only the third gas detected in the lunar atmosphere in any quantity that's still pretty cool. I don't know.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
16:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - This is a significant first-time discovery about our moon. Tenuous as the atmosphere there may be, this is knowledge that has just now become known to humanity, and though some people may not find it of interest, there are many others that do. I find this ITN-worthy, and the linked articles are among the best we have to offer. Arguments in support carry considerably more weight, in my view.
Jusdafax07:32, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Why are so many opposes citing the thin lunar atmosphere as a reason? Do real people read science news and think "bah, the moon's atmosphere is 10^-14 earth's atmosphere, nobody cares what elements are there!"? Not to say this is exceptionally important news, but the reasoning is a little...thin. -
OldManNeptune⚓10:30, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Oppose – "The Moon has an
atmosphere so tenuous as to be nearly [a] vacuum" – actually, more of an
exosphere. Thus, to landlubbers (so to speak) like this user it doesn't seem much of a phenomenon.
Sca (
talk)
14:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The U.S.
Internal Revenue Service, which announced an extensive computer data breach in May 2015, reveals that the breach is much deeper and more serious, exposing an additional 220,000 individuals. The thieves had infiltrated a now-deactivated online system called "Get Transcript."
(AP via MSN),
(USA Today)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Not a household name, certainly, but an influential and important physicist who came up with a formula for
black hole thermodynamics, which influenced Stephen Hawking. Also known for the
Bekenstein Bound and as a recipient of important prizes and awards in his field, including the Landau Prize, the Rothschild Prize, and the Einstein Prize.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
[Closed] Move Tianjin chemical explosions to Ongoing?
No consensus to move to ongoing only to report on death toll updates. After the shocking cratered photos a few days ago this has now dropped out of the news.
Stephen02:46, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support reposting The item is still in the news as of yesterday (I haven't read the news summaries yet tonight) and I suggested on errors that we should be cropping overly-wordy blurbs to save space, rather than bumping matters still of interest off the bottom of the page.
μηδείς (
talk)
01:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Updates of death toll are much more likely to happen and relatively frequently, unlike MH370. Maybe it's still too dangerous to risk lives for the sole purpose of finding human remains sooner? Whenever they can do that and probably do DNA tests then we can finally found out what the actual death toll is. No new MH370 news could happen until they found wreckage and that took a year.
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
13:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
We didn't know when MH370 would be discovered. We know now. We didn't keep it in the news until that point, nor should we keep this in the news either. After all, it's not in the news much any longer.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
13:18, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[Closed] David Denson
No consensus to post. A good nomination and yet vehement opposition has resulted in a quick close. Perhaps a DYK could come from this if really necessary?
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:58, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose Twenty or even ten years ago this would have been major news. Today, given the tectonic shift in public attitudes about sexuality capped by the recent SCOTUS decision on gay marriage, it rates little more than a yawn. As I have said ever since the SCOTUS ruling, the battle over gay rights in the West is now pretty much over. This and the many similar stories that have, and will continue to pop up, are just a reflection of that reality. Someone drop me a line when Russia or Saudi Arabia legalizes gay marriage. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
18:21, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I suspect this will be AFD'd fairly soon, since he certainly fails
WP:NBASE and I would wager that the majority of even the most diehard baseball fans have never heard of him (pinging
Baseball Bugs who may have an opinion). As
Ad Orientem says above, "xxx comes out as gay" is no longer a story in Western countries, unless it's a figure like a religious leader where their sexuality is actually germane to their job. (Note that
Keegan Hirst, who just came out as the first gay British
Rugby League player, doesn't even have an article on Wikipedia.) ‑
iridescent18:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose and I created the article. I disagree with
Iridescent about AfD, since I believe it passes
WP:GNG. (Though, yes, I'd never heard of him until yesterday.) I nominated it for DYK, which I think is more appropriate than ITN. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
18:32, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I think AfD is a real possibility. I am not seeing anything that rings the notability bell here. To the extent he is getting a lot of coverage right now I think that can be filed under
WP:BLP1E. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
18:55, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose we've also had the first gay player coming out in Rugby League this weekend (a big deal in the most macho of sports) but neither are ITN worthy.
Black Kite (talk)18:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Official figures released at 22:00 give "approximately" 18 dead and 117 injured. Best I could find was a screenshot of the document posted on Twitter though.
[16] --
Paul_012 (
talk)
17:06, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Photo uploaded - @
Dragons flight and
The Rambling Man: I've uploaded a VOA photo of the bombing scene (File:2015 Bangkok bombing VOA.jpg), can we use it on the main page? The bombing attack is much more newsworthy than Jason Day winning the PGA. -
Zanhe (
talk)
21:57, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Update needed - The Thai police have revised down the death toll to 20, with 125 injuries. See refs in article. Please update. -
Zanhe (
talk)
23:38, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Crowds gather throughout
Brazil to demand the impeachment of
PresidentDilma Rousseff due to a bribery and corruption scandal involving senior members of the governing
Workers' Party. Recent polls show her approval ratings below 10%.
(France 24)
Both articles updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Although not as big as last year's school massacre and recent bombings in Bangkok, this should attract readers in the Main Page.
George Ho (
talk)
19:54, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Notable for the death of a high-profile personality. Also gained significant coverage in international media. Mar4d (
talk)
04:40, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support alternate blurb - primary target, Shuja Khanzada, was targeted because of his strong stance against terrorism. I will update it as there have been two arrests made.
—МандичкаYO 😜
05:17, 21 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: Very high death toll, lots of coverage in the news, has been called "one of the deadliest single incidents involving air strikes since the conflict [the Syrian Civil War] began nearly five years ago..."
[17]Everymorning(talk)02:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Definitely ITN material, major death toll, deadliest single civilian attack in years. Article requires some major improvements. Strongly suggest rename to 2015 Douma market massacre as referred to in
[1],
[2],
[3], ...495656778774 (
talk)
14:44, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose there's a range of claims about civilian deaths in other events we haven't posted. The group
Islam Army does not have a page - readers are likely to be confused about the rebel groups and factions, given territorial changes and the number of military groups that disband/defect/rename/form coalitions. Most news media outlets do not have their own people on the ground; in my opinion, users are not well served by articles that don't cover in detail the rebel groups and their allegiances. --
Callinus (
talk)
11:25, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. At this point most people know there's a war going on in Syria, and in a war, there are bound to be civilian casualties. This does not seem noteworthy enough to feature in my opinion, especially since we already have four disaster-related items featured right now.
Banedon (
talk)
09:20, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree. I still don't find it noteworthy - people die in a war, plain and simple. And many disaster-related items for me means that each new disaster-related item must be of ever-higher significance. Also as I mentioned on the talk page, if the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombings happened this week, I'd prefer to keep them condensed into one entry.
Banedon (
talk)
00:45, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Conditional Support if article is expanded. At this point it's dominated by "reactions", which consists of mostly platitudes and no real information. -
Zanhe (
talk)
01:13, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
@
Ad Orientem: "Support per ITNR" is unnecessary, as the whole point of the ITNR list is that items on it don't need support on the merits, as ITNR gives a pass on the merits. The purpose of an ITNR discussion is only to discuss article quality and a blurb.
331dot (
talk)
08:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Quality seems fine. The article at least contains a prose summary of each round (not long summaries, but still each round is covered) and the tenses are correct and results are accurate. --
Jayron3215:16, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support the article covers this seminal golf tournament's final round in about sixty words. That's pathetic, but it seems that our standards these days are such that a few sentences work. So no objection to this being posted under the current climate.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support with alternative blurb: In golf, Jason Day wins his first major title, the 2015 PGA Championship. Sentence reads better to me, and is more concise too.
Banedon (
talk)
09:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment "Jason Day won his first major title with a total score of 268 (−20), the lowest score in relation to par ever recorded in a major" - nothing newsworthy here ....
Article updated The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Support I've taken the liberty of adding the word "final" to the end of the blurb - otherwise one couldn't be sure that Australia had actually won the tournament.
Neljack (
talk)
09:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on quality: No mention in the lead summarizing the tournament NOR naming the winner, Format section has no references. It's close to postable, but we should fix those few things before doing so. --
Jayron3215:18, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. I've tidied up the article and fixed tenses etc, and added a couple of sentences to the lede to give a summary and the result. I've cited the Format section, it's a primary source but that's acceptable here and it cites everything in the paragraph.
Black Kite (talk)15:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Not ready this is the report that covers the whole of the final match, the most important match every four years in netball: "In the final Australia outplayed New Zealand in the first quarter to lead 16–7. Despite wining each of the next three quarters New Zealand were still beaten 58–55." NOT ENOUGH.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:11, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Very weak support on notability -- involved in some great albums, but I'm not sure about "iconic" -- but the article quality is not good. It will need to be improved in order for it to be considered for posting. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
18:17, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose I'm not seeing much here that sets this guy apart. His association with famous people does not appear to have been a major contributing factor in their fame or musical success. If he had not produced these songs/albums would someone else not have? No awards or any kind of industry wide recognition of his standing/influence. And as Kudzu1 notes, the article has some serious sourcing issues that preclude its being linked on the Front page until they are fixed. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
22:09, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose posting just that it is missing; when it is found, declared to be lost, or some other definitive determination, we can post that if desired. Given the short flight it seems like it has a good chance of being found.
331dot (
talk)
10:49, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Update – Apparently site is too remote for quick confirmation. AP and NYT stick with "missing," while
AFP says "rescue teams were heading to the site of an air crash ... after villagers found the wreckage...."
Sca (
talk)
20:50, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Post-posting comment – I think we're okay with this, given circumstances, but from what I've read no one in an official capacity has seen the wreckage yet.Sca (
talk)
22:12, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Yep, we saw that many hours before you posted this, it's better to actually work on the article after it's been posted than to provide late updates to the item itself here. Thanks.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:01, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support upon update; meets DC2 and possibly DC1 for his work in establishing SNCC. A few paragraphs seem to need citation.
331dot (
talk)
09:58, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: It isn't often mathematical stories hit the news, and this one is being covered by NPR currently. The target article DOES need some work; it is updated but could use some referencing, I was hoping that some of the mathy people who patrol here might take this on as a project. An interesting story, from an underrepresented topic, is currently in the news. Maybe a nice change from the "death-sports-politics" cycle we always end up in.
Jayron3203:36, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support It is indeed rare that mathematical discoveries of this difficulty are accomplished. I would like to see it covered. For those unfamiliar with the problem 3, 4, 6 and all other numbers of sides are solved, the pentagon is not.
Chillum05:20, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
In layman's terms, there are only certain known shapes where you can take the exact shape and repeat it infinitely to "tile a plane" and leave no overlaps or gaps. Squares, triangles, and regular hexagons are all known to work, and such simple shapes have all been known to humanity for millennia to do such a thing. Discovering a new shape which can be repeated infinitely in such a way as to "tile a plane" is very rare, the last such known shape was discovered in 1985, and prior such shapes were discovered almost a century ago. It's exceedingly rare, and also a cool story for ITN for its novelty. As noted in my nomination, the target article is not up to standard, but the subject seems interesting enough, and I was hoping this nomination would inspire Wikipedians who actually do know this stuff (a set of people that does not include myself) may be able to fix up he article. --
Jayron3206:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Leaning toward oppose. a) The paper is unpublished (although admittedly, the pentagon itself has been published, so anyone can verify the results easily enough). b) This doesn't solve the
pentagon tiling problem, it's just an (incomplete as of yet)
brute-force attempt to find new pentagons. I'd compare this to finding
a new largest prime number - it's an impressive bit of computer programming, but it doesn't tell us anything new. On the other hand, if someone found the rule that describes the distribution all prime numbers, that would be a massive breakthrough. Similarly, finding a new pentagon tiling is cool, but finding all the pentagon tilings (even if just by
proof by exhaustion) would be more newsworthy.
Smurrayinchester10:16, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support on notability. It's not a terrorist bombing, and the discovery is obvious by visual inspection, there's no peer-reviewed source requirement, nor would it be needed.
μηδείς (
talk)
16:09, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support following in-line citation improvement. Article definitely needs work with properly citing material to the appropriate source (
WP:CS &
WP:ILC). The only piece of information directly cited is the presence of fifteen currently known variations. Leaning toward support based on notability of the subject within its context, but not so strongly based on Smurrayinchester's comments. Definitely would be nice to represent a topic that has nothing to do with death, sports, and war.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
19:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I would mark this ready with a net 4 1/2 supports and a 1/2 oppose, but the update really should be at least the sentences, if not five with three sources. I don't see that. Can
Jayron32 or a supporter with the requisite acumen get us three sources in 3 sentences?
μηδείς (
talk)
00:35, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. As an extreme layman in this area, I am moved to support by Jayron's explanation above and the two linked sources. I am not moved by Smurray's counter argument pointing out that this is not the greatest accomplishment that could ever occur in this area. To me, that is like saying we shouldn't publish a new discovery of a planet because we haven't yet discovered every single planet. Yes it's not the complete task but it is a major step in completing that task. (And speaking of planet discoveries....)
Rhodesisland (
talk)
03:27, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
"Encyclopedy". Support for diversity to counter systemic bias of news junkies being right-brained (and yes, I know left and right brain isn't very scientific). This is not proof of knowing every shape that can tile (which may be impossible) but it looks like the smallest repeating section is 7 pairs of tiles wide in the 40 degrees clockwise of horizontal direction so the low-hanging fruit is gone. We're still working on bathroom tiling technology. Take that fusion power researchers!
Sagittarian Milky Way (
talk)
14:39, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support: Doesn't appear to solve the unsolvable mathematical problem, but it is an addition to the canon, and it's nice to feature things that aren't disasters, deaths, or sporting victories from time to time. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
17:25, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Oppose. How is this news? Countries/states changing their timezone either to bring themselves into synch with a trading partner, or as a statement of cultural independence, isn't an unusual event (Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Samoa and Crimea are a few from the last few years). ‑
iridescent16:27, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose. I don't know if I would say that this isn't an unusual event but it doesn't seem that significant. It's no secret that North Korea isn't a fan of anything to do with Japan and this just seems to be a way for NK to criticize the "imperialism" of the West.
331dot (
talk)
16:47, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose They are always finding Jupiter-like planets, and the smallest ever directly imaged is one of those records that could be broken tomorrow, like youngest woman to reach the North Pole on a tricycle (if that's not already a record I'm starting training tomorrow).
Belle (
talk)
16:58, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks Medeis, the direct imaging is important, as is the size of the planet imaged. I am trying to find more scientific things to go here so our ITN is more encyclopedic I guess....
Cas Liber (
talk·contribs)
20:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support – Notable discovery worth mention, namely considering it's the first of the Gemini Planet Imager, but not terribly keen on how notable it is (by ITN standards). Exoplanets are discovered all the time so the only real aspect of mention here is the size of the Jupiter-like planet. Science-side of me is leaning support, but I could honestly go either way. I'd also suggest adding
exoplanet into the blurb to more clearly indicate that it's the Jupiter-like planet being referred to as the smallest, since the star is being targeted as the main subject of the blurb.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
00:16, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It's not the 'smallest Jupiter-like planet'; I don't know where you got that from. It's the smallest planet that we have a direct image of - as opposed to indirect evidence from transits or Doppler shifts. It does also happen to be roughly Jupiter sized, but that's irrelevant to the notability claim.
Modest Geniustalk11:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Marking ready as this is technically ready, and the support outweighs the opposition. Obviously this is a close call, but it should either boe posted or closed, not left hanging, and I think the argument in favor of posting is strong.
μηδείς (
talk)
01:24, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - The fact that this is the smallest-ever planet to be directly imaged causes me to agree that the nomination is ITN-worthy. I could wish for a bit more meat on the article, but feel thoughtful readers around the world will find this of interest. Prefer alt-blurb, but support either.
Jusdafax01:57, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Records for exoplanets are being broken every month or so. This one doesn't tell us anything new or surprising about planets, and is purely due to improved instrumentation. Bound to be beaten sooner rather than later.
Modest Geniustalk11:18, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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An unspecified-type
Egyptian military aircraft crashes due to a 'technical failure' near the
Libyan border killing four crew members and injuring two others.
(ABC via AP)
Swedish prosecutors drop some charges against
Wikileaks founder
Julian Assange as the statute of limitations expire but will continue to investigate rape claims.
(Sky News)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Highly successful owner and trainer of thoroughbred racing horses described as "legendary" by media sources reporting on his death. Hall of Famer who helped start the
Breeders' Cup.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
01:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: Yes, there are dozens of such papers, but this time one of the researchers said: "As far as we are concerned, this research is the nail in the coffin of this 50-year debate". The research was conducted by three universities and published in the peer-reviewed Ecography (putting this under August 13 per University of Exeter announcement date).
Brandmeistertalk19:18, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The proposed target article for this nomination has serious referencing issues. In its current condition it cannot be linked to the Front Page. If those were corrected, I would be inclined towards a weak support. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
23:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The debate about whether an asteroid killed the dinosaurs went on for 20-30 years, and I imagine this debate will do the same. With no smoking gun (
like the layer of iridium and glass that proves an asteroid hit the earth 65 million years ago), the only way the debate will be resolved is the long, slow process of academic discussion, and that is unlikely to ever have a clear watershed moment for posting. (Also, the scientific paper is a bit more reserved than the popular press: "Our results show that human colonisation was the dominant driver of megafaunal extinction across the world but that climatic factors were also important.")
Smurrayinchester07:46, 16 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I sympathize. But the news is what it is. And this clearly meets ITN criteria. If you can find something that meets the critera and that does not include blood and mayhem please feel free to make a nomination. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
05:06, 14 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A massive explosion in the Chinese city of
Tianjin results in at least 17 deaths, 11 people seriously injured, and hundreds of people being hospitalised.
(BBC),
(NBC News),
(CCTV)
In a two year period, 280 to 300 children have been sexually abused and filmed doing forced sex acts in
Pakistan by a
gang consisting of 20 to 25 culprits.
(CNN),
(Anadolu Agency),
(BBC)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Internationally acclaimed organist and choirmaster. Transatlantic prominence as organist of St Thomas Fifth Avenue NYC since 2004 after being Director of Music at St Paul's Cathedral London (1990-2004). Meets the "widely regarded as a very important figure in his field" hurdle.
BencherliteTalk13:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support – Unexpected death of one of the world's leading figures in church music, and "the premier English organist of his generation", still in his 50s, prompting a long-overdue major expansion of his WP article. Though he never aspired to become a household name, he was responsible for major worldwide publications, dozens of top-quality commercial albums, hundreds of highly reviewed concerts, and the formative training of countless young musicians. Good opportunity to give ITN some extra variety beyond the usual disasters and politicians! —
Patrug (
talk)
18:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the ping, I had indeed missed the nomination. This is not my field or interest, so I don't feel qualified to voice an opinion other than unopposed based on a brief scan of the article.
μηδείς (
talk)
16:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: There are some referencing issues with the article, but the thing that stands out to me most is that there isn't a bluelink in his entire discography section. That makes it very hard to assess the figure as being of great importance. If the article were improved to demonstrate clear notability and add quality references, I'd consider supporting, but I'm not quite there right now -- and time, obviously, is a factor. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
In case it helps, I just added some quick citations for his (admittedly imprecise) "many award-winning recordings" and the prestigious Pipedreams broadcasts honoring them. —
Patrug (
talk)
21:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
References needed I was going to mark this ready, but some of the material is entirely unreferenced, and one very long, fatc filled paragraph has only an end reference. Also, as primary sources, the long list of works with name, title, and publisher is okay, but it should preferably have dates.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Updated, thanks. His just-published obit in The Guardian now covers almost every basic fact, and his Manchester Evening News review looks like the only missing date. I'll soon have citations for the "complete organ works" sentence. —
Patrug (
talk)
22:29, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support – Clearly a major event in Myanmar, and also a huge step forward for the government as they're showing the will to cooperate with other nations rather than refuse aid (like after
Cyclone Nargis in 2008).
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
01:59, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I hate to open this can of worms, but what is Wikipedia's latest official position on the name of the country? I only ask because the country itself is at
Burma, and the text of the Flooding article uses Burma as well, but the title of the article is Myanmar... Surely, there should be some consistency? At least an internal consistency within the same article? --
Jayron3212:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Myanmar redirects to
Burma, but the article immediately informs us that it is "officially the Republic of the Union of Myanmar and commonly shortened to Myanmar." AP, Reuters, AFP and
BBC use Myanmar. My impression is that Myanmar remains the consensus for now.
Sca (
talk)
14:40, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, but if the article is titled "2015 Myanmar flood", shouldn't it at LEAST use Myanmar as the name of the country throughout, and not Burma, as it does now? --
Jayron3218:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I think so. As noted, Myanmar seems to be the most widely accepted name for the country at present. (I'm no expert on the country or region, but it would seem that the country entry,
Burma, should be renamed Myanmar too.)
BTW, target article seems sketchy (it's less than 300 words), and those parts of it couched in present tense should be converted to past tense.
Sca (
talk)
20:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's comments: Not sure what usually happens when people who clearly meet the RD criteria, such as Carter, are diagnosed with a serious disease. However this announcement has been covered widely in the media and Carter is very notable (he will probably get a blurb when he dies), so I think this is notable enough for ITN.
Everymorning(talk)22:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - we don't post normally when every celebrity gets hit with a life-threatening illness and I fail to see how this is any different.
Simplysouth ....
..time, deparment skies for just 9 years23:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Wait He's a former head of state of one of the most important countries in the world, but even so we don't normally post updates on their health. Will probably support however, if the prognosis turns out to be terminal (a very real possibility given his age). -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
23:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Wait Per Ad Orientem. I would also like to point put that most 90 year olds aren't strong enough to even have liver surgery, so maybe he has a small chance.
109.149.136.203 (
talk)
23:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Snow closing; doctors say he's in good health and just diagnosing the cancer will take till next week, not that we would post this even then.
μηδείς (
talk)
23:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Comment I am not going to revert the speedy close because I concur that this nomination is extremely unlikely to be approved for posting. That said, I would point out that half of the votes cast were Wait. This suggests that the topic may be raised in a future nomination once Mr. Carter's medical condition becomes more clear, and especially if the prognosis is mortal. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
00:23, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
If it were re-opened, I would add a flat oppose. Old people come down with illnesses. It happens, even to former heads of state.
Resolute01:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I will support a full blurb on his death, because he is essentially a king among men, even though he wasn't the most effective president, partly for reasons outside of his control. But his diagnosis isn't ITN news. Hopefully he's got several years in front of him. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
16:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Comment, OP here. Please edit and update the details when possible. Number of dead is unknown, but from the scale of the explosion, looks like one thousand or more. Hospitals are how treating hundreds of patience with burn or glass wounds. Most of the info we can get now is from Weibo. But within the next few hours you will get Chinese media and more Western err ports also. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
4.28.143.34 (
talk •
contribs)
Supportpending major improvements; stub class article at the moment. Major explosions with an initially high injury count are not common within major port cities, such as Tianjin. News coverage is worldwide on the explosion.
SomeoneNamedDerek (
talk)
20:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support once we clarify the cause and the effect, footage as posted by Jusdafax indicate that this is a significant and almost certainly deadly event. Even The Daily Telegraph is already suggesting nine deaths.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Already obvious that this is large-scale enough. Article can be updated after posting as precise cause and effects become clear.
Thue (
talk)
20:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support when the article is in decent enough shape for the main page. This appears to be a major event (the BBC are saying it's an industrial accident), the likes of which are not at all common. For major events it is usual for an ITN blurb to be updated as more information becomes available (e.g. death tolls following a major earthquake).
Thryduulf (
talk)
22:09, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support It clear that it is a large scale event. Death toll rising quickly (17 now). Article can be updated as info flow in but should be on front page.
ShakyIsles (
talk)
23:23, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
An obvious post when ready, but the article is still a bit too small and desperately needs copy editing as of this note.
μηδείς (
talk)
23:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Marked ready. We've got two blasts registerin as 2.3 and 2.9 earthquakes, at least 17 dead and 32 critically wounded, and the article has been cleaned up for style and is well cited as of
this edit.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:57, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong support Now that we know there's numerous casualties and significant damage, this is a clear ITN story. --
MASEM (
t)
01:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Question - I'm sure I've read stories about burial discoveries at Liverpool Street Station before, i.e. this Telegraph one from March 2015
[26]. Is this actually a new story or is it a rehash of the same one? Bobtalk18:55, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Debris from a
Buk surface-to-air missile is found at an unspecified location in eastern
Ukraine. According to the Dutch Safety Board and the Dutch prosecutor overseeing the criminal investigation, it may have come from a Buk (possibly of Russian origin) fired by rebel fighters, accidentally or purposefully, in the downing of
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. The investigation remains classified.
(AFP via MSN)
In talks held regarding the course of the
Syrian Civil War,
Russia and
Saudi Arabia fail to reach agreement over cooperation in the fight against
ISIL, with the Saudi representative refusing any common struggle with
Assad's regime.
(The News Hub)
Georgia accuses Russia of cutting off its citizens from their farmland by installing border signposts demarcating the breakaway
South Ossetia region, calling on Moscow to refrain from "escalation".
(The Daily Star)
Law and crime
In
Puyallup, Washington, a gunman on a mass shooting spree kills a man, then fired at homes and people before driving a stolen SUV through the garage door, crashing into several cars, and shooting at police until stopped when his SUV was rammed by a police car.
(KIRO)
A study, part of the
Galaxy And Mass Assembly (GAMA) survey, examined huge blocks of space as distant as several billion light years away and concluded that the universe is "slowly dying" as more stars gradually go out faster than they are being replaced by light-emitting active ones. In
cosmological terms, the demise of the universe (the current age calculated at approximately 13.8 billion years) is billions, perhaps trillions of years away.
(The Guardian via MSN),
(CNN),
(The South African Times Live)
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Oppose This is not a rebranding, it's basically internal restructuring: Page says that he does not intend the Alphabet brand to replace Google's or any of the other Alphabet subsidiaries' on any products—you won't be using Alphabet Mail or Alphabet Chrome any time soon.
[27] This allows for newer projects to be managed without the "Google" brand, such as
Calico and
Nest.
Isa (
talk)
04:12, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose If we posted every corporate re-org, we'd be over-saturated with business news. Google is getting attention just because it's Google.--
WaltCip (
talk)
15:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I am tempted to close this based on the avalanche above, but it's actually a business story I do Support given the restructuring is meant to allow ventures like the google car to fail or flourish on their own. It's not a merger meant only to cut costs, but a possible prelude to highly valuable and innovative spin-offs. Also, the stock has jumped significantly.
μηδείς (
talk)
17:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I was tempted to close this, too, but with Medeis' support making it non unanimous, I'll simply add an opppose to a banal corporate restructuring. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
18:11, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose – Significant upsurge with wide coverage no doubt, but this has been going on and off since the shooting itself last year. Nothing of importance (I feel like I'm treading on thin ice here) has come about from this, just more arrests and strained relations between the public and police department.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
00:16, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose at this time; this is not yet anywhere close to the scale of the actual event a year ago. As suggested, a 48 hour wait is prudent here.
331dot (
talk)
00:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Happy to Support assuming Casliber wants to continue with this as an ITN entry; the banter above makes it unclear. There were reports of sightings of the
Ivory Billed Woodpecker a few years back too, but no capture, which would have been major news.
μηδείς (
talk)
16:16, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
OK then I oppose this as an ITN story and recommend you switch to DYK instead (assuming there's enough new sources to support sufficient expansion). Whilst this species is clearly rare, it is hardly the only one in the world whose population is unknown. In a continent the size (and low population density) of Australia, it's not surprising that things can hide in the interior. I don't see how this affects (or interests) anyone except ornithologists.
Modest Geniustalk09:39, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
DYK won't apply, unless the article is hugely expanded. It is not new enough to qualify otherwise. Plus, comparisons with the Norwegian Blue (Least Concern) are a bit fatuous, no?
μηδείς (
talk)
00:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose If the headline was due to capture we just found out night parrot's are not extinct then that would be a story worth posting. capturing a rare bird (that should be left alone) isnt really a story. --
Ashish-g5521:49, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Voters in
Haiti go to the polls for the first election in four years with some polling places in the capital
Port-au-Prince forced to close due to violence.
(Reuters)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose on article quality. No doubt that Gifford is notable enough for RD, outstanding player and broadcaster - but there are large parts of the article with no ref - playing career has only two refs, and there are none at all in the broadcasting section. --
Bcp67 (
talk)
20:30, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose article is simply awful, it is not highlighting "quality" in any way to post this on the main page. While I'm endlessly cynical about the American proclivity for "halls of fame", given he'd made it into the Pro Football Hall of Fame alongside fewer than 300 others, I guess his notability is almost beyond question. But the article sucks, seriously.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:05, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - Front page of the NYT is all about this. Obviously notable, obviously ITN RD material. Quality could stand improving, but isn't that almost always the excuse? Let's post it.
Jusdafax21:16, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support pending improvements The subject clearly meets RD#2, but I agree the article isn't currently close to posting shape. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
21:21, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Notability is a quite important factor, to say the least. And this would be far from the first article which "sucks" used here.
Collect (
talk)
23:41, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
For someone with his career the article should be twice as long, the lead should be more than a single sentence, and there certainly should not be any unsourced paragraphs. I never watched him play or announce, so I won't be of much help with the needed expansion.
μηδείς (
talk)
23:58, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Another person departed with a very long career and a depressingly short article. The Broadcasting Career section still lacks proper sourcing (one source in the whole section cited). He seems definitely notable enough for his career both on and off the field, as the expression goes, but the brevity of the article makes me very mum about quality for RD.
Challenger l (
talk)
08:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A Little Work The article has been improved. There are still half a dozen general unsupported claims that need refs. The various specific TV episodes are okay if he is credited, but the awards section needs refs, since awards are not primary sources. The article should be ready to go once those tags are addressed.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:30, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Earlier referencing issues have been addressed. Gifford was at the top of his field both as a football player and later as a broadcaster.—
Bagumba (
talk)
09:41, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Support per ITN/R. World Aquatics Championships are a major sporting event every two years and its conclusion is worth mentioning. I have also proposed slightly modified blurb to indicate the nation that won the most gold medals in compliance with the conclusion of the Olympics and the World Championships in Athletics.--
Kiril Simeonovski (
talk)
18:45, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose woefully under-referenced article, the previous supports should be overlooked as they do not seem to indicate any understanding of the concept of ITNR, as noted by 331dot.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:07, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
@
The Rambling Man: I typically use comments to complain on quality issues rather than oppose a nomination and change my mind once the article is improved or updated; I use votes only to express my opinion whether a topic should be posted regardless of it being listed as ITN/R. Having an ITN/R turned down because of its questionable notability, which sometimes happens, is a first revision before taking the matter further to nominate it being delisted.--
Kiril Simeonovski (
talk)
06:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
TRM has it right. There are two major criteria for posting something at ITN. One is whether it belongs there. The other, perhaps the more important of the two, is whether the article is good enough to showcase. ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→
20:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It matters little, most people just come here to "support per ITN/R" without even bothering to look at the quality of the article. This is one of the poorer ITNRs I've seen, but it did make me smile that someone felt the need to needlessly wikilink
show which, of course, is a dab page. It also features swathes of unreferenced claims and poorly written English, but that seems to be irrelevant to those who just show up to say "Support per ITN/R".
The Rambling Man (
talk)
20:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment four days have passed and nothing has been done to address the fundamental quality issues with this article. Perhaps we should now look to remove it from ITNR given the significant lack of interest, even from the supporters, in improving it to a bare minimum standard for consideration in the ITN section of the main page.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:57, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A hostage rescue operation in central
Mali is successfully performed by British
SAS forces after gunmen attack a hotel with at least seven people dead.
(The Daily Star)
Typhoon Soudelor makes landfall in mainland
China in
Fujian province with 250,000 having been evacuated from that province and
Zhejiang province.
(AFP via ABC News)
Article:Typhoon Soudelor (2015) (
talk·history·tag) Blurb:
Typhoon Soudelor makes landfall in
Taiwan, killing at least five people and injuring at least 185 others. (
Post) Alternative blurb: Typhoon Soudelor makes landfill in Taiwan, forcing the evacuation of more than 160,000 people, killing at least five, and injuring at least 185 others. News source(s):CNNUSA Today Credits:
Nominator's comments: Death toll is rather low, but there were a large number of people injured and over 160,000 people were evacuated before the storm hit. Additionally, 1.4 million households are without power as a result of the storm.
Everymorningtalk21:08, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support on a slow few days for ITN, we have a storm that's already caused deaths and $2/3 billion damage. Probably sneaks in at the low end, but article is reasonable too so should be good to post if consensus is just above the margin.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:21, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
SupportCyclone Pam was posted, and had "15–16" fatalities. One news source from a few hours ago said 14 are already confirmed dead, the figure may rise to above 15/16. Maybe wait until there's an updated death/damage toll. --
Callinus (
talk)
23:08, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - As TRM notes, this probably gets a bit more of a pass than usual due to ITN being slow lately, but I think it would qualify regardless. Significant disruption across a wide area, non-insignificant death toll, and according to
this it's the strongest storm of the year. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
00:08, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Note – I would suggest rewording this to include the subsequent landfall in China and damage there. Latest tally for China/Taiwan (as of my writing this) is 21 killed, >402 injured (Taiwan only), and 109 missing.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
03:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Major multi-national sport event, largest yet, referenced detailed article that is being updated. Rare chance to feature parasport, and since Wikipedia coverage of parasports in general is not very good, great chance to improve coverage and improve the diversity of the encyclopedia. (Article to be featured in ITN is already good, I don't mean to improve that one but I mean to attract editors to other parasport articles by boosting the profile of the topic). The Games run Aug 8-15.
184.147.128.46 (
talk)
17:52, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Question Does this meet the standards for ITN? I ask as we don't usually post sporting events in ongoing. While I laud your desire to promote this topic, we have guidelines because ITN has limited space and in order to ensure we don't get swamped with stories that are intended to
bump an editor's area of pet interest. And let's be honest, we all have areas of interest for which we would like to get more exposure. For now I remain Neutral on this nomination. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
18:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I don't know since the rules are hard to understand, but hoped so. It is not in the list of automatic events but it is an ongoing event per reliable sources. At the moment the Ongoing space is empty, so I thought why not add this for the next week while the games are happening.
184.147.128.46 (
talk)
18:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose: We generally don't list sporting events in ongoing unless it has very high worldwide viewership (World Cup or Olympics, generally), and this doesn't appear to meet that standard. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
18:20, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Aside from me personally opposing all sports in Ongoing except the multi-sport Olympics, I don't think this has the level of notability needed- and it isn't our role to help generate such notability and interest.
331dot (
talk)
20:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose For ITN/R, the nominator put in "not yet". This is not an ITN/R event, and I don't see any reason to post it at all. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
21:41, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Reluctant Oppose I don't think this meets the ITN guidelines. If it gets enough attention maybe we can consider a blurb when the games close. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
00:11, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Notorious figure in the Pinochet administration blamed for the "disappearance" of thousands of Chileans during the dictatorship. Not an admirable person by any stretch, but a notable one. Media outlets worldwide are reporting on his death, which unfortunately brings a premature end to the 505-year sentence he was ordered to serve in prison.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD conditional on improvements in sourcing. A very unpleasant man, but he clearly satisfies ITNDC. On a side note, I wouldn't worry about his escaping justice. His case has just been transferred to the one court from which there is no appeal. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I have now gone through the article, cleaned it up, added referencing, and expanded the section on Contreras' many convictions and sentences. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
17:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose not influential in or the top of any field by far, dozens, if not hundreds of such thugs world-wide during the cold war era.
μηδείς (
talk)
16:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'd say he was pretty prominent in the field of crimes against humanity. And while there are certainly dozens or more such people around, there are also dozens or more doctors, scientists, engineers, members of the performing arts, etc who were/are highly influential in their field. We post them too. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD. Significant figure in the modern history of Latin America. The disappearances in Chile during the Pinochet regime are notorious and well known. Contreras was certainly not a nice person, but that's not part of our criteria, and nor is being a household name around the world. His actions were significant.
Modest Geniustalk14:36, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - I don't see what else is wrong with this article. Notable person. Article well referenced and in good shape. I was able to format bare URLs into references.
George Ho (
talk)
06:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
"Notorious", "Not a nice person", and "Notable" are simply not ITN criteria. The guy's neither at the top of nor influential in any field, nor a sitting head of state, nor has he died unexpectedly in a way that increases notability.
μηδείς (
talk)
22:20, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - A major player in the Pinochet government, and a criminal leader responsible for numerous deaths. Notable and ready to post.
Jusdafax04:38, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Article updated The nominated event is listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
I thought my comment was self-explanatory really - an opposition based on quality grounds. I didn't see any need to state "I agree with the consensus over at ITNR". Is there consensus here that a
single sentence giving the result and a bunch of stats is an adequate update? After all,
this is what the previous series looked like when it was posted. With Aus thumping Eng in the 2nd test and Eng crushing Aus in the next two, surely we can get at least a cited prose paragraph per test.
Fuebaey (
talk)
18:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm sure you did. But thanks for clarifying that your opposition is on quality grounds. I think your comparison with the last series is very useful. This one is so clear cut that a more rapid posting might have been preferable.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
20:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I don't understand your last comment. Usually we update before we post, not vice versa. If there is consensus to post, it shouldn't be difficult to find a sympathetic admin.
Fuebaey (
talk)
21:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I was suggesting that, because the win this time was so pronounced, editors interested in the topic might have expended more effort to update the linked article, so that the item could be more rapidly posted to ITN. They still might, I guess.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
21:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Had I followed the series I'd take a jab. If someone could undo
this edit, rem some (blatant) England POV and source it, only the second test would need writing up.
Fuebaey (
talk)
22:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak support I agree that the tests leading up to and including the victory need coverage before we post this. If nothing happens tonight, I'll see what I can do.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:53, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Similarly, in baseball, say two teams have a three-game regular season series. If each wins one of the first two, the third is said to be the "rubber game". If one team wins the first two, they have won the series. If they win the third, they will have "swept" the series. The difference is that every game means something during the regular season, so it's not "dead rubber". In post-season series, there are only enough games played to determine a winner. That does raise a question: Why do they play a fifth match in The Ashes? Is it simply tradition that all matches are played regardless? Or is that there is statistical meaning to playing the remaining games, even when the winner is not in question? ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→
15:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Because people have paid to watch the oval match - not least to say farewell to
Michael Clark but also in the hope of seeing another massive Aussie defeat. Oh, and the complete rubber has always been played because there is no formal award.
SpartazHumbug!15:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
They play the fifth game because of tradition (historical) and commercial issues (contemporary). Having said that, the result of the fifth Test now has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the result of the Ashes; England have won them, there is nothing more to debate. No-one can "sweep" the series, nothing about the result can change.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:11, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
support I'm sure this comment has no policy basis and will be ignored but this is too good an opportunity to rub Australian noses in their defeat as they open the front page. ;-)
SpartazHumbug!15:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: This is on ITNR so no need to support. I'm tempted to wait until the result of the fifth Test. We'll then have a full article with all of the matches, and that's when the trophy is presented. That's also what ITNR requires ('the conclusion of the tournament or series'). However I won't object if it's posted now; we do seem to be rather quiet at the moment.
Modest Geniustalk09:50, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Posted. What a good sport I am. In more important news, Australia is currently leading in the
women's Ashes. Also I didn't add the image because I'm always afraid I'll bugger that up, but anyone else should feel free to.
Jenks24 (
talk)
18:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A Bangladeshi blogger known for his
atheist views is hacked to death by a gang armed with machetes, the fourth such incident this year, in the capital
Dhaka.
(BBC),
(The Telegraph),
(The Hindu)
The jury in the penalty phase of the trial of
Aurora theater shooter
James Holmes reaches a verdict to sentence him to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
(Reuters),
(AP),
(WABC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Yes, it's a dog, but don't let that be the reason you don't support this. This is an animal actor who was at the very top of his game - he has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, won the animal acting awards and who can forget the Oscar campaign? Was also included in the cast nominations for both the Screen Actors Guild and the Critic's Choice (just didn't win either).
Miyagawa (
talk)
06:38, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Since this has received serious support, I'd better explicitly point out that my above support was my feeble attempt at humor, and I oppose this for the same reason as Kudzu: it's a dog. I have no real objection to posting non-humans if they are notable enough, but I doubt we would post any actor with only one starring role. Cute dog, though. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
08:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - Even if not a human, he still deserves to be mentioned. This little fella of all friendly fellas warmed and touched our hearts. Sad to see him go. --
George Ho (
talk)
07:55, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nah - Dogs of a given breed are interchangeable. Did anyone notice when the original Jack Russell Terrier in Frasier was replaced? Did any casual viewers notice that two different white stallions were used in The Lone Ranger? And how many Collies have played Lassie over the years? ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→
15:14, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
And worth noting that only the very first Lassie has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, out of four dogs total - including Uggie.
Miyagawa (
talk)
19:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Given how much trouble I've had training my dog, I'm impressed by dogs that do things on command, especially on a hectic movie set. I'll say he was at the top of his field of being a dog. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
15:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. a) It's a dog. b) We cannot split everything up into exceedingly specialised subfields (like 'dogs who have appeared in films') and then claim that every nominee is top of one of them. The relevant field here is 'actors who have appeared in films'. c) His filmography is hardly impressive; nowhere near the top of the acting field.
Modest Geniustalk16:03, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Support. Supported because article quality and referencing is much better than many of corresponding actor RDs we consider here, but"weak" because dog. SpencerT♦C13:59, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose I'm worried this is perverting the intent of RD, particularly when there are more well-known b-list actors and the like that actually have had to work in their career to get where they are and still don't make the RD cut. --
MASEM (
t)
14:43, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: The original shooting was undoubtedly significant, and this verdict seems to be significant too because, to quote Reuters, it "brings to an end a long-delayed, lengthy, and high-profile trial just a little more than three years after Holmes' rampage in a suburban Denver multiplex put a spotlight on gun control, mental illness and security in public spaces."
[28]Everymorningtalk00:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose It is established precedent that we do not normally (conceding the possibility of some rare exception) cover the sentencing in criminal trials. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
02:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose: We posted the outcome of the Boston bombing trial, but that was something different in that it was federal charges and federal death penalty.
'''tAD''' (
talk)
16:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Last night saw the end of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. The Daily Show will continue with another host (and it existed before Stewart) and Stewart will move on but the show's run during Stewart's stewardship has received unusual critical acclaim and
numerous awards. His show also spun off numerous other successful shows including the
Colbert Report which also finished recently as well as
The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore and
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. With Jon Stewart and the Colbert Report now both finished i think we can consider the notability of both in this nomination as the shows were deeply intertwined. The English speaking media in the US and elsewhere have broadly weighed in on the show's significance as a Comedy, Satire, and News program. Here's a couple:
The Guardian,
New Yorker.
Johnsemlak (
talk)
14:59, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This is just a change of host in a TV show. It's not a record-breaking run, nor does the switch have impact on anyone except its viewers. Minutiae of TV schedules are not ITN's concern.
Modest Geniustalk15:50, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose It's not world-shattering news, everyone knew it was coming, and its not like neither the show, nor the host, have continued television presence. --
MASEM (
t)
16:09, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Nomination header is incorrect as
Trevor Noah takes over the show in six weeks. Jon Stewart has a long and noteworthy run on TDS, but for all the "R.I.P. Jon Stewart" posts, he's not dead or retired, just shifting gears. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
17:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: These abductions seem significant because of the large number of people reportedly abducted, but the abduction reports all originate from the
Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, and I'm not sure if they're a trustworthy enough source to warrant posting just on what they say.
Everymorningtalk12:30, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Rather than a blurb, should we return the issue to Ongoing? If there are new developments and article updates, but no major changes to the situation of the war, that's a better route to take.
Modest Geniustalk15:52, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The (reported) fact that "many" of those abducted are Syrian Christians might make this worth a blurb, but info is still sketchy.
Sca (
talk)
16:07, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Neutral: I have been saying for months that the ISIL conflict should be listed in ongoing. This development, while horrifying, cannot be said to be as significant as the recapture of Tikrit by Iraqi and Iranian forces, or the Kurdish takeover of Tal Abyad (in June) or Hasakah (this week). -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
01:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Now Wikipedia is a propaganda outlet instead of picking the merits of the story itself?? OPPOSE its not unusual what the cia-gcc-mossad created creeps do.
120.62.23.188 (
talk) 06:07, 8 August 2015 (UTC) (It's not my vote, but it was previously removed without a reason, so I restored it rightfully.
George Ho (
talk)
22:04, 8 August 2015 (UTC))reply
Week oppose there are so many mass kidnappings committed not only by ISIS in Syria civil war. Syria is no more a sovereign state in true sense. Does it the taking of Al-Qaryatayn by ISIS make a history? I don't think so.--
Jenda H. (
talk)
21:47, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominator's comments: Significant expansion of one of the most vital and newsworthy international shipping canals in the world. Major infrastructure project for Egypt worth more than US$8 billion.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
06:54, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support As an especially interesting piece of world news. Note that all of the updated content is in
New Suez Canal, so
Suez Canal should not be bolded. Also note that we don't usually link country names on the main page. This is reflected in Alt Blurb 2.
Mamyles (
talk)
17:40, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The image in the article appears to be a copyvio or, at best, incorrectly sourced/tagged. Its now at PUF so you may wish to consider remedial action?
SpartazHumbug!19:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment Nobody noticed the blurb for a subject from a metric country only uses imperial measurements? Really? Have already raised this on Errors, as the blurb has incredibly already gone on the Main page in this form.
Fgf10 (
talk)
20:00, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Examination of the debris is being carried out, under the direction of a judge, at the
Balma,
France, aeronautical test facility in the
Toulouse area to identify everything they can from the metal: damage, barnacles, etc.
(UPI),
(Deutsche Welle),
(Reuters via MSN)
Note I just created this article and it is NOT ready for posting yet, obviously. I would like some help from the community to make this a good article before consideration for posting. Thank you.
Brian Everlasting (
talk)
20:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: Long term impact still unknown, but with 22,000 other abandoned mines, this canary in the gold mine disaster is worth noting. --
Light show (
talk)
01:20, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose still too soon. The rivers are clear upstream. No harm indicated to wildlife or humans. EPA says there will only be sediments. The rivers are still open to the public and drinking water is still drawn from them with a request for testing but nothing concrete that it is a long term or a meaningful spill. --
DHeyward (
talk)
01:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose per DHeyward. I would have opted to wait, but this started 5 days ago so if nothing "major" has come about by now, odds are it won't be terribly bad.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
01:45, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I assume "rivers are clear upstream" is a joke? Rivers don't flow upstream. The EPA lied about the original amount of the spill, stonewalled on notifying the locals, and is saying that the toxins will sediment out, but that is what the polluters of the Hudson who opposed the
Pollution_of_the_Hudson_River#Superfund_designation said. I suggest that the oppose votes point out a worse case of river contamination in US history. This one affects the
Navajo Nation (who are suing) and the Colorado river through the Grand Canyon and to the Hoover Dam.
μηδείς (
talk)
02:36, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Read over a few more articles, but the main issue I keep running across is how bad are the effects? EPA hasn't said anything about potential health effects nor environmental impacts; however, some areas are possibly (EPA isn't being clear...shocker) already back to "pre-event conditions" (
per the Denver Post). I've stricken my oppose in light of lack of complete understanding on my part, but without a clear indication of the effects, I can't necessarily support either.
Cyclonebiskit (
talk)
03:00, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
"clear upstream" is the source. The spill is a plume which travels with river. Being clear upstream is part of measuring when the event ended just as downstream measurements will indicate when the plume passes. The pictures where it was yellow are snapshots and they are no longer yellow in those upstream areas. The plume has passed them. See the stats below on Lake Powell for dilutions and why water officials in AZ are not concerned about safety of the water supply. That doesn't mean that states and localities looking for compensation will claim it's safe but we've not seen dead livestock or fish or anything else that indicates a biohazard. This is quite different from BP spill or Exxon Valdez where the impact is readily apparent. --
DHeyward (
talk)
22:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The reason, I suspect, that the media is not interested is that there are no dead fish or birds to take pictures of. This suggests that this spill is not all that bad. The Santa Barbara oil spill a few months back was not posted, because it was not considered bad enough.
There could be pictures of it, but the press can decide whether or not to post them. And suggesting the spill is not that bad underestimates possible harm to society. Do you think either blurb can mislead readers into believing the spill is harmful or harmless?
George Ho (
talk)
08:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support It's still showing up in the top stories on Google News, and one of the
most recent includes: '"Over the next few days, the waters in the river are going to clear up," said Jeff Witte, New Mexico's agriculture secretary. "That's doesn't mean they're safe folks." Mark Hayes of the EPA reminded residents not to use the water until they get an all clear. When that will be, they don't know.' I'd call that significant and ongoing. —Torchiesttalkedits11:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support We wouldn't buy "no evidence yet of human injury" from BP or Exxon-Mobil if they caused a similar catastrophe; why are we buying it from the EPA? Attempts from them to downplay this are pure CYA.--
WaltCip (
talk)
15:46, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support A significant environmental disaster. When you are closing rivers it's a big deal. And no, I don't trust the EPA anymore than I would BP to be upfront about this. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:27, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Post-posting comment this has barely scratched the surface of news outside the US, and it currently has no clear consequences. In other such situations we usually wait to find out if anything truly detrimental takes place, rather than relying on editors' personal opinions on conspiracy theories or cover-ups. This posting is poorly thought through in my opinion, Gold King Mine doesn't have an article, and all the news outlets are suggesting nothing has actually really happened. Of course if something does, we could post it, but right now it looks completely absurd to post this item with no real definition of the impact of the spill. Of course, once we start seeing all the animals and humans nearby dying, we should re-consider, but right now, nothing is happening.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
19:44, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A list of mostly smaller
waterway spills throughout the world that received major attention with the damage observed over time. FWIW, the 3 million gallons for this one equals 25 million pounds. --
Light show (
talk)
20:14, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Pounds of what? That's just a conversion of water volume to water weight. Here's another one: It's 9 acre-feet of contaminated water (which already has a dilution). Lake Powell is 24,000,000 acre-feet of water. It takes in 9,000 acre-ft of water a day. The dilution rate is order of magnitude over a mile and the spill is 250 miles upstream of Lake Powell. The total volume of contaminated water is 0.1% of a days worth of water. By the time it gets to Lake Powell it will be spread into multiple days (the 9 stays the same, the 9,000 grows so dilution in the stream is likely to make it unmeasureable). It then gets added to the 24,000,000 acre-feet. Whatever the PPM was at it's highest concentration, divide it by 30 million for worst case. Every day that passes, double the 30 million. (3rd day after spill means 120 million). --
DHeyward (
talk)
22:14, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
You are right that one can't talk about gallons of solution as if they equal pounds of pollutant, but cadmium is lethal (LD50) in humans from between .35g and 3.5g, with inhaled dust being far more toxic. The estimated 3 million gallons spilt includes not just solute but also tailings, which means sludge. Comparing the volume of the spill with the volume of Lake Powell is an apples and oranges thing. What matters is the inflow from the spill and the outflow from the Colorado. This will be affected by the sedimentation, but the problem is the sedimentation still poisons bottom feeding fish, and doesn't just disappear--rather it become sequestered, causing long-term damage. What is known hear is worth posting, what is not known here is no objection to posting.
μηδείς (
talk)
22:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The safe levels of cadmium in drinking water is 5 ppb. The post-spill measurement was 6 ppb at the highest concentration. Lead was a much higher increase than cadmium and cadmium is being played as a red herring. It's not an issue. In the entire 25 million pounds of water, there were 65 grams of cadmium total. It's considered safe to drink with 50 grams of cadmium in that amount of water. --
DHeyward (
talk)
01:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Both articles updated One or both nominated events are listed on
WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet
WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Support. Came here to nominate it myself. This is the most-important football club tournament in the Western Hemisphere, and the 2nd in the entire globe.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
14:17, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: The prose summary for the finals is acceptable. Referencing is at acceptable levels. No reason not to post this now, even if the articles aren't perfect. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose you think seven sentences of prose, including one dedicated to an injury and one dedicated to a red card, is an adequate summary of two 90-minute matches in an ITNR? I don't think so. Seven paragraphs would be more appropriate.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
That's raising the bar a bit high: two or three well written and properly referenced paragraphs would suffice. But I agree that the update is currently insufficient.
Modest Geniustalk15:54, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Question I don't want to get into a debate about OTHERSTUFF type matters, but the community roundly decided to NOT post the CONCACAF tournament earlier this month, but a similar CONMEBOL tournament would get posted? They are equivalent FIFA regions, why is one regional FIFA tournament worth posting and another not? I'm not arguing we should or shouldn't post either this one (or should have posted the other). I'm just trying to understand what the standards are for deciding which tournaments to post and which to not. If there's good reasons, I'm quite understanding, but I can't figure out how two nearly identical tournaments would have differing levels of support. --
Jayron3216:01, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Any reasonable football observer knowledgeable about both regions would say that the CONMEBOL tournament is a significantly higher standard than the CONCACAF standard. Also, Mexican teams, which are the strongest in the CONCACAF region (judging by the winners of the CONCACAF Champions League) also compete in the Copa Liberatadores. The South American tournament is also much older and more established and valued by its fans.--
Johnsemlak (
talk)
16:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I can appreciate that. The standard supposedly argued for not posting the CONCACAF tournament, however, was "We don't post regional tournaments", not "We don't post this one tournament because it's not good enough". I'm just looking for consistency and understanding. Your explanation makes sense, and would have made sense at the last (non-)posting of the CONCACAF tournament had that been the argument; but the argument posited there was "We don't post regional tournaments"... Thanks though, your explanation is reasonable. Still inviting more commentary. --
Jayron3216:28, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Nominated by [[User:
120.62.19.227 (
talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)|
120.62.19.227 (
talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)]] ([[User talk:
120.62.19.227 (
talk) 19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)|talk]] ·[{{fullurl:User talk:
120.62.19.227 (
talk)
19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/preload_credit&preloadtitle=ITN+recognition+for+%5B%5BNational+Socialist+Council+of+Nagaland%5D%5D§ion=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=National+Socialist+Council+of+Nagaland&preloadparams%5b%5d=nominated}} give credit])reply
Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Truces have been notable enough in the news. I believe the FARC agreement was posted at some stage. The end of the Lankan civil war also was posted.
120.62.19.227 (
talk)
19:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: Significant development likely to bring conclusion to a lengthy rebellion in one of the world's largest and most diverse countries. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
00:11, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I should note that even the most cursory glance at these articles shows them being well far removed from being fit to post. Somebody with greater knowledge of the subject than I have should clean them up with suitable, preferably scholarly, references. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
15:34, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Comment Just want to note that this conflict has already received a few blurbs here. I would prefer putting this back to Ongoing, over posting a new blurb.
Mamyles (
talk)
14:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose unless the situation changes significantly. All three sources you cite are very careful to make it clear this is not an invasion but just the supply of military equipment and advisors ("local journalists told the BBC that Emirati troops had recently disembarked in Aden and were deployed as advisers, rather than in combat, while a Yemeni military official denied foreign troops had landed in Yemen"). That Saudi and UAE are willing to commit expensive equipment rather than just providing moral support is significant, but it's a long way from a ground invasion (by this logic,
the UK is currently engaged in an invasion of Ukraine). –
iridescent15:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Newsflash from "so called" invasion: Saudi Arabia sends new military equipment including tanks from Sharura into northern Yemen to support government forces fighting Iran-backed Houthi militants.VOA --
Jenda H. (
talk)
08:49, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The key word there being "equipment". Supplying weapons to an ally, along with instructors to show local troops how to operate it, is not an "invasion", or by that reasoning the US, Britain, Russia and France are between them currently invading most countries in the world. –
iridescent09:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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==== [Posted] Discovered debris probably of lost Flight 370 ====
The wait is implied, but at this point it seems all but certain that the flaperon belonged to MH 370. An official annoucement might come
as early as today. This ITN/C is just so we can decide on which blurb to put eventually. --
bender235 (
talk)
05:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - Thanks for the nomination, Bender235. Under the rules, it goes to the date of event. Id est ("that is") the date when the debris was discovered. I assumed it was August 1, but it turns out to be July 29. I've moved the nomination twice to earlier date. But we'll see how it goes. --
George Ho (
talk)
05:58, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
My triple mistake. July 29 was a debris discovery. August 1 was a debris transfer to France. The blurb is still too soon to tell. But I still can't figure out which date to put in. For now, I've moved the nomination back to the date of nomination for further updates.
George Ho (
talk)
06:09, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Obviously we should. But anything but a confirmation later today would be a huge surprise. They already confirmed it was a Boeing 777 part, and there's no other airplane of that type missing in that part of the world. This entry is just to discuss the blurb, not to post anything prematurely. --
bender235 (
talk)
06:27, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose The finding of a piece of debris does not of itself resolve any of the questions surrounding the plane's fate.Will reconsider if/when they actually find the plane or reach some definitive conclusion about what happened to it. Finding a piece of debris is not ITN material. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
18:01, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support - the flaperon has been confirmed to have come from the missing aircraft. This is a significant development in the mystery.
Mjroots (
talk)
18:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support why we needed to wait for a few days after this discovery to confirm the ultimate fate I know not, an as-built record would have confirmed this in seconds. Nevertheless, we can now claim the end of the beginning, we now know for a fact that the aircraft was destroyed.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support, this is the first totally independent piece of evidence that confirms that the plane indeed crashed somewhere in or near the current search areas in the Southern Indian ocean.
Count Iblis (
talk)
19:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
There seems to be a suggestion on the errors page that there is still some doubt about the certainty of experts regarding this piece of debris. The person raising the concern links to a NYT article that implies the experts are still not 100% certain. No one has responded to the error suggestion there, so I thought I'd mention it here. Are we sure they're sure?
Rhodesisland (
talk)
21:47, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
As I understand it, it has been confirmed that the piece of wing they found was that of a Boeing 777; this flight is the only Boeing 777 that is missing. There were indeed varying statements from the different agencies involved- but it is very hard to see how this could be anything but part of this flight.
331dot (
talk)
22:02, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A street-corner sized
sinkhole forms at the intersection of Fifth Avenue and 64th Street in Sunset Park in
Brooklyn, New York City, ruining the street corner. The northbound N Broadway Local train undergoes delays; there is at least one disconnected pipe and some gas lines requiring repair by National Grid workers. Local police cordon off the area. No fatalities or injuries are reported.
(Business Insider, via MSN)
Two express passenger trains (12 coaches of the
Kamayani Express; to
Varanasi from
Mumbai, or Bombay)
derail, after being partially swept off a bridge while crossing flooded tracks in
India's
Madhya Pradesh state leaving at least 31 people killed and about 100 others injured. Related to this incident are monsoon rains and the end of a cyclone which have killed more than 100 people in India.
(NDTV),
(Reuters via MSN)
Two boats collide between Kiwa and Remba Islands on
Lake Victoria leaving several people dead.
(The Nation)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Her death is currently on the front page of the New York Times, which describes her as "Natalia Molchanova, widely regarded as the greatest free diver in history", so should be notable enough. I am only nominating for RD and not for a full blurb, as I don't think sports or extreme sport deaths are news on the same level as e.g. international conflicts for the purposes of ITN.
Thue (
talk)
20:19, 4 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support blurb now that search-and-rescue efforts have been called off. Highly notable person at the very top of her athletic field, believed to be dead in an unusual and poignant way. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
00:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment possible blurb, considering that she was literally a legend and has gone missing underwater for three days. She could hold her breath for nine minutes. Given it's making the homepage of the UK version of the BBC News website, this is most certainly significant.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
That the greatest ever free diver is missing, presumed dead? Well there you go, the idea of a blurb was that it would cover the idea that she is missing, presumed dead, rather than confirmed dead, which RD would require. Either way I can see that you aren't interested in this nomination, fair enough.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
21:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Lack of confirmation is a good reason to not post it at all, not elevate it to a blurb. With all due respect to the presumably deceased, this is a minor death of a niche athlete. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
22:20, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I made an accurate appraisal of the nomination. If that highly offends anyone, that's something I have no control over. I said exactly what I meant to say. --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
17:07, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure I understand the difference here. How exactly do you evaluate a death nomination without evaluating the person who died? --
Bongwarrior (
talk)
17:37, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD as an important figure in free diving. I'm learning toward weak oppose for a blurb, based on my subjective evaluation of this individual's importance, though I do understand other editors may judge her importance differently.
Mamyles (
talk)
19:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support RD oppose blurb. This is rather clearly qualified for RD but the article is too small to meet the prior ITN criteria before we had RD. Should go up ASAP.
μηδείς (
talk)
19:51, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose on article quality. She clearly meets the bar for notability in her sport, with the sheer number of world records and gold medals - but the article is little more than a stub with an attached table that isn't completely sourced yet.
Challenger l (
talk)
20:45, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Posting a blurb means that this person is special enough to be featured on the front page. However, she's not prominent enough to be newsworthy; neither is her presumed obituary. As for the RD, that would mean she's dead. She's just drowned into the deep waters. Her body just disappeared, so perhaps I'll propose the missing persons ticker. In the meantime, let's not make death presumptions a real indication of death.
George Ho (
talk)
22:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment If we are going to do anything with this, it should probably be soon. We are inching towards the point where this nom is going to start looking a tad stale. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
03:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support but I recommend the blurb mention India (perhaps attached to the pipe of the Madhya Pradesh link), as neither location to me strikes me as well-recognized in the English-speaking part of the world. --
MASEM (
t)
14:16, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support This tragic accident meets the bar for posting to ITN. I agree with Masem, and suggest an Alt Blurb that includes the state and country for recognition, and because the district article is of low quality.
Mamyles (
talk)
14:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The
Athens Stock Exchange reopens after more than a month with share values falling by 22 percent in early trading.
(AP)
Puerto Rico fails to make a scheduled payment of
US$58 million to service its debts of $72 billion.
Moody's considers the commonwealth in
default.
(BBC)
Disasters and accidents
Flooding caused by heavy
monsoon rains has caused over 100 deaths in
India over the past week with tens of thousands of people taking shelter in
refugee camps.
(BBC)
After days of heavy rain, a fifty-year-old building collapses in the
Indian city of
Thane killing at least twelve people with many more feared trapped in the rubble.
(NDTV),
(AP)
In a unanimous decision, the jury rules that
James Holmes, having already been convicted for the shooting, is still eligible for the
death penalty.
(CNN)
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Famous English-American poet, polemicist, and historian of the Soviet era who won the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the United States, among other honors.
Kudzu1 (
talk)
00:16, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support – Highly regarded, and highly critical, British-American historian of the the Stalin era: influenced generations of historians.
Sca (
talk)
00:22, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Absurd that this was marked ready while comments refered to him in the present tense; the article needs a good going over. I certainly support the nomination of any anti-marxist of his stature, but we need sources for works and awards that don't have dated and specified blue links or full in text descriptions.
μηδείς (
talk)
02:29, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Withdrawn by nominator. Clear that there is no consensus to post, although I find it quite dismaying when people !vote against RD based on their personal opinion of the man or woman who died... -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
00:43, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Oppose As a New Zealander, I have to say that describing him as a "national hero" is pushing it - he was pretty well known, but probably not a household name. He is obviously a highly decorated war veteran, but there are lots of those and I don't think that's sufficient to warrant posting. It should also be noted that he was not the last of the Dambusters - he was the last Dambuster pilot, but there are still two Dambuster aircrew alive. In any case, I'm not sure that being the last survivor of a particular WWII operation - albeit a famous one - is sufficient to justify posting either.
Neljack (
talk)
01:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose A highly decorated war veteran. But is that enough to satisfy ITNDC? I don't think so though I'd probably support if he had the
VC -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
01:29, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose – The much-dramatized "Dam Busters"
raids killed 1,600 civilians, including 1,000 forced laborers, for what British RAF historian Jonathan Falconer terms as "a minor inconvenience to the Ruhr's industrial output." (Such attacks on dams were banned by an amendment to the
Geneva Conventions in 1977.)
Sca (
talk)
14:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Neutral there's really no need to start claiming collateral damage and dragging up historical hatred here. To do so is simply grotesque. Whether certain individual editors or writers believe it or not, the Dam Busters are an integral and notable part of the Second World War, just as the Nazis who murdered millions of civilians and forced labourers. We are not here to re-define what is and is not important in the context of history, news outlets have published this individual's death. Having said that, it's just another epoch-passing moment, the history will remain whether it's subjectively decided to be significant or not, it's still there.
The Rambling Man (
talk)
18:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment – This user suggests that those interested in the topic read this
section of the relevant article, and decide for themselves whether Mr. Munro's participation in the raids qualifies him for RD posting.
Sca (
talk)
21:35, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The orange tag and sparse sourcing, along with the rather disjointed nature of the article - it needs a re-write into a proper article, and not simply a disjointed association of sentences and a handful of paragraphs. Another that is a depressing sight for one with his honors and long history.
Challenger l (
talk)
00:13, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:23rd World Scout Jamboree (
talk·history·tag) Blurb: The 23rd World Scout Jamboree, the world's largest youth event, is being held in Kirarahama, Yamaguchi, Japan. (
Post) Alternative blurb: Naruhito, Crown Prince of Japan, visits the 23rd World Scout Jamboree, being held in Kirarahama, Yamaguchi, Japan. Alternative blurb II: Israel boycotts the 23rd World Scout Jamboree, being held in Kirarahama, Yamaguchi, Japan. News source(s):http://newsfirst.lk/english/2015/08/japanworld-scout-jamboree-reaches-fourth-day/105771 Credits:
Er, what INTR is this? I'm not seeing anything scouting related there. And generally Oppose, not a significant event. --
MASEM (
t)
22:31, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Why would we post a scouting jamboree? Also the article, which is pretty short, says nothing about Israel boycotting it. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
22:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Being the 'world's largest' X doesn't automatically mean it makes ITN. News coverage of this seems limited. I've also removed the ITNR as this is not on the list.
331dot (
talk)
22:39, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Described by the Wall Street Journal as "the nation’s first-ever federal limits on carbon emissions from power plants", and FWIW, Obama himself says it's “the single most important step America has ever taken in the fight against climate change”. Also described as "major" in CNN link above, so this seems significant. However, the article is new and still rather short, so it should be expanded before posting (assuming there's consensus to do so, of course).
Everymorningtalk21:11, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak Oppose posting the announcement of a domestic policy 'plan' that will almost certainly be challenged in court or possibly overturned by Congress. It will probably be a long time before this is implemented.
331dot (
talk)
21:21, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose unbinding policy fluff meant for press consumption. Even if it were a law it would have no guarantee of any actual effect four administrations from now.
μηδείς (
talk)
21:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose per above comments. It's a policy goal, likely to be aggressively challenged in Congress and the courts. These kinds of announcements are a dime a dozen. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
21:37, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Think this still would need Congressional approval, and I also believe it is in response to a recent court case where the EPA's previous clean power plant rules were overturned. Not seeing immediate newsworthiness here but DYK is good target. --
MASEM (
t)
22:29, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support conditionally The Greek debt crisis was quiet when it was removed from ITN/R. Now, it's loud again.
Athens Exchange is not a particularly great looking article at the moment, though. Also, neither source you provided refers to this as a "crash". –
Muboshgu (
talk)
18:13, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I agree that this is not the greatest article, but I think it is adequately referenced and will serve.
Greek government-debt crisis, which I would normally think the better target, unfortunately has issues that probably can't be resolved in a timely manner. I have also added two sources that specifically use the word "crash" though I do believe that commonsense would allow for that adjective when talking about these kinds of one day losses. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
19:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I just rerated it as start-class. It has about 2500 B of prose, and seems to be beyond a stub class article. I do agree though that the quality isn't presently sufficient for posting. –
Muboshgu (
talk)
18:49, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Wow. I don't usually question other editors in their vote rationals, and in fairness there are some reasons I could think of that might give an editor some pause on this nomination. But yours is not on the list. I don't see how that oppose rational could not be applied to the vast majority of what we post on here. The word "frivolous" comes to mind. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
21:45, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Now, now,
WP:NPA! A bleak day on the Athens Exchange, no doubt, but stock markets are notoriously volatile. In deference to
Addy's sensitivities, though, I'll change my vote to wait – for now.
Sca (
talk)
21:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I wasn't criticizing you. I was criticizing your vote rational. That said, I will admit that I am not altogether happy with the article quality. I just think this is a news item that should be posted on ITN. I would call my own vote as the nom a weak support.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Catholic and a Baptist church in Las Cruces,
New Mexico are rocked by explosions at a mailbox and a trash can.
(USA Today)
Services are held outdoors after Dustin Connor allegedly stole a computer, discharged fire extinguishers, and damaged a cross and other structures at a church in Piqua,
Ohio. He is aleady a person of interest in similar vandalism to another church in the town.
(The Washington Times and The Dayton Daily News)
In an apparent road rage incident in Reedley,
California, an 18-year-old pregnant woman is shot in the left eye after passing a slow-driving SUV which subsequently pulls up alongside and opens fire.
(Sky News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see
this RFC and
further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets
WP:ITNRD.
Support on severe article improvement Right now the article is a massive BLP failure and needs serious sourcing work. --
MASEM (
t)
13:20, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose blurb. This is not a world-changing death and we really need to be a lot more careful on where blurbs for RD candidates are used. --
MASEM (
t)
14:43, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support / Support blurb - Icon of the 60s Merseybeat scene, unexpected death, worthy of a blurb.
Masem, I'm not seeing any tags in the article.
Mjroots (
talk)
13:38, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
More than half of the paragraphs on her bio and career are unsourced. No, there are no tags but just the lack of a maintenance tag doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist. --
MASEM (
t)
14:43, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Opposeunless the article can be completely reliably sourced by midnight tonight, or when she stops being on the front page of
BBC News, where she is currently the lead story. There are just too many unsourced quotations and claims.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont)16:03, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I agree that this does not currently merit posting but on what basis are you imposing a time limit? Usually people have until a nomination drops off a page, especially if there is support for posting on the merits(as there is here)
331dot (
talk)
16:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I understand your view, but your initial post seemed like a deadline or ultimatum after which this would no longer be valid for discussion.
331dot (
talk)
16:47, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I seem to remember waiting nearly a week to get
Francesco Rosi posted at RD. I'd suggest that Cilla, being many times more notable in UK than Rosi, ought to expect to be posted regardless of any time limit. But then I'd also expect far more editors to help in improving the article. All the sources required will be in English for a start, well
roughly English, anyway.
Martinevans123 (
talk)
17:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Support conditional on major improvements to the article Subject is clearly ITNDC material. But as noted above the article has significant issues, mostly in the
WP:V area. I have added a ref improve tag. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:50, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Not Ready Martinevans work has indeed been good, but there are plenty of claims like comparisons with other artists that need citations.
μηδείς (
talk)
00:38, 4 August 2015 (UTC)reply
As one that had issue with the sourcing, the current version does look sufficiently inline-sourced to post now, good work. --
MASEM (
t)
14:45, 4 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Turkey has killed around 260 members of the
Kurdistan Workers Party in recent bombing campaigns in Turkey and northern
Iraq. Officially the operation was started to attack
ISIL but over 90% of attacks were against the
PKK.
(AFP via Yahoo! News)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support We certainly should post women's world records just as we would post men's. They should be treated equally. This was the first women's hammer throw to break the 80 m mark. It beat the previous record by 1.5 m. I think that warrants posting.
Neljack (
talk)
09:44, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose. I don't think an athlete extending their own record is as notable as a new person doing so, especially in one small track and field event. I'm also not seeing a great deal of coverage of this.
331dot (
talk)
12:04, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
P.S. I also agree with TRM's observation. We really don't want to set a precedent here. Sports records are set with great frequency and it would be a nightmare trying to decide what gets posted. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
16:57, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose The hammer throw is only marginally important to the general sport audience for a few days every four summers, and even then, pales next to the track events.
InedibleHulk(talk)00:41, 3 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Weak oppose. The CNN story states "On closer look, researchers propose new species: African golden wolf". This isn't someone finding a new species in the jungle somewhere, but a reclassification of existing species(based on DNA as Abductive states).
331dot (
talk)
12:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose per 331dot. This looks more or less like a renaming or reclassification of something that has long been known to exist. That's too trivial for ITN. -
Ad Orientem (
talk)
17:00, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose: I'd definitely back this if it were a new species being discovered, but these sort of taxological reshufflings happen fairly often and with literally no effect on the world outside the particular scientific discipline. -
Kudzu1 (
talk)
00:45, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.