Sviatoslav I is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 26, 2007. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Should the name be Sviatoslav or Svyatoslav? Whichever one, it needs to be consistent throughout the article. Right now they're both used: Sviatoslav in the title and very beginning and Svyatoslav throughout most of the text. Billy Shears 19:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
The map of Sviatoslav's state is a fiction. A self made map of unknown validity. The lands of derevlians on the nothern west from Kiev that were conquered by his mother Olga are not included into red space. They are presented even as the lands on the southern west?!?. On the contrary, the eastern and nothern boders of Rus (red and orange) are unreasonably enlareged (land of Polotsk was taken after his death by Volodymer, the land of Novgorod wasn't so big at that time). The boders signed by orange are nonsense, because nobody can prove that Sviatoslav had left his administartion there. Hazaria and Bulgaria were only plundered by the prince's armies but not conquered. Hazars were unable to stand after his blow but Bulgaria still to exist unntil the middle of 13 c.
Therefore Sviatoslav expeditions should be shown on the map as arrows (directions of his campains) rather than as encircling of paticular areas. It should be deleted as POV or remade. The sourses listed in the image are either unreliable or the author who created the map used wrong data. -- Alex Kov 17:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
"conquests" do not mean occupation. Sviatoslav's armies moved through the general areas depicted. Historical maps are never intended to draw clear-cut and fully accurate boundaries because such boundaries are impossible to determine even at that time, let alone today. This user appears to object to user-made images for the sake of objecting to them. By the standards he would impose every historical map on Wikipedia should be removed. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 02:28, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Selfmade maps should not be removed. I just dont like this paticular map, which is full of factual mistakes . The territory of Rus (red)in the north is unreasonably enlarged, while the southern lands are depicted as a smal area along the Dniper river. The derevlians are not the tribe from steps on the south but woods on the west. Read Tolochko or Rybakov, or any other valuable historiography on the subject to learn the realms of Rus during the reign of Sviatoslav. You'll see that your map is wrong and it should be remade. If you want to show the wars of Sviatoslav on the east do it by arrows (es. in case of Khazaria and Bulgaria). Thats a ussual way of depicting war campaigns of those who invaded but not conquered (occupied) the lands of foes. For example, look at the maps of crusades. The crusaders took several castles and towns in Asia Minor on their way to the Holy Land, but in the cartography these castles and towns are not included (encircled) into the borders of the crusarers' kingdoms.
Please remade your map in accordance to historical facts and rules of cartography. --
Alex Kov
05:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I belive that the old name Durostor is more appropiate for accuracy, Silistra is the modern name. CristianChirita 06:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the Byzantine Greek name was Dorystolon. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 21:41, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
How do we get the Gibbon text moved to Wikisource where it belongs? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 02:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
First, let me say this is one of the best, most entertaining articles I've read for a GA review. Extremely interesting! The lead is somewhat weaker than the rest, and the Russian phrases could possibly also use a a Latin alphabet transliteration. "Kievan Rus'" is written both with and without the '. Some references have odd little underscores, such as "Primary Chronicle _____." - what do they mean?
Still, none of these seem enough to withold GA. However, this article seems near-FA, so fixing them would probably get it the rest of the way.
2a has the weird underscores, so is only a mostly-pass. 6b is a get-out clause if there's no images, so it's not applicable.
Still, it's a pretty clear pass. Great work! Adam Cuerden talk 14:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm a busy editor and have multiple tasks on my hands. I don't have time to analyze irresponsible edits by any stray wikipedian, but I decided to make an exception for Beit Or:
Unless detailed explanation of every unsubstantiated edit is forthcoming, they will be reverted. -- Ghirla -трёп- 08:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Ghirla, please do not insert your comments within comments by other editors: readers of the talk page will not be able to understand who said what. Beit Or 12:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Pace, gentlemen. Let me see if I can help move things forward. No. 4: This is actually closer to the account given in D.M. Dunlop's work- that the Khazars first permitted the Rus to go down the Volga, then tried to stop them (killing many in 911 or 913). I don't think, however, that any contemporary source definitively linked Sviatoslav's campaign with these earlier events. But if it's in the EOI we could say something like "Such and such scholars promoted the view that Sviatoslav's war against Khazaria was provoked by the Khazar policy of ...." and then cite to the appropriate article's authors. With regard to #5, I requested a citation for the quote "I am coming for you" (or whatever it was) not because I wanted it removed but because I wanted to know what the source was. If indeed it was from the Primary Chronicle, it should DEFINITELY stay, but it wasn't identified as such and because it was added by an anon, I was a little suspicious. If Ghirla says it comes from the Primary Chronicle, I see no reason why not to add it back in (with the note that the Chronicle reports it). Re: primary sources/secondary sources... I've seen some discussion about this but never reviewed the actual policy (nor do I know where it's located). I tend to be in favor of quoting primary sources where possible and relying on secondary to interpret. I've seen some users object to this entirely... Usually these are people who want to whitewash elements of Muhammad's life by saying you can't quote to this or that primary source reporting some terrible thing he did because you're not "trained in interpretation" or something like that. With regard to No. 3, I don't know what Malusha's relationship with Sviatoslav was. The Vladimir I of Kiev article says she was a concubine and Vladimir was illegitimate. How do we know whether she was a wife or concubine? Does the Pr. Ch. say, or some other document (even if they do we should regard that with caution because these are Christian docs and not pagan). In medieval Wallachia, a son was legitimate if he came from "his father's bone." Was it the same in Russia? If we don't know, maybe (at least for now) the best thing would be to say "wives and concubines". No. 6 - I think the modifications to the Khazar campaign section are generally good and help with clarity. No. 7 the reference to the visitor appears ot have been added so it looks like all is well. Let's try to keep it civil- through all of our efforts, I think the article is much better now than it was a week ago, and if we can continue to collaborate peacefully I think it will be an FA before long. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 14:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the citation requested note from the line "Иду на вы!" based on Ghirla's statement that it comes from the Primary Chronicle. If this is not so let me know. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 18:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
That would be in Nicolle's Attila and the Nomad Hordes (Osprey) among other sources. I will try to find a cite. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 14:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
The guidance on the usage of primary vs. secondary sources is provided by WP:RS: "Wikipedia articles may use primary sources only if they have been published by a reliable publisher e.g. trial transcripts published by a court stenographer, and may use them only to make purely descriptive claims... In general, Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable secondary sources." Beit Or 21:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
guys, the "prefer scholarly secondary sources" policy intends to avoid amateurish interpretation of primary sources, which are often less than clear. Of course the PC is crucially important, but we cannot discuss and interpret it in home-grown wikitranslations, we need to base our discussion of primary sources on scholarly discussions of these primary sources. Khazarian correspondence and the PC are both primary sources, and you should just present both for what they are worth. Conclusions such as the 940s connection are not to be treated as "self-evident" as Beit Or seems to attempt, but, at least if challenged, need to be attributed to some scholar or other. As far I understand, the Encyclopedia of Islam is just the source of the text of these correspondences, and not of the conclusion, or is it? It the Enc. of Islam does claim the connection, it would then be Ghirla's turn to say "however, according to Dr. Y, this connection is unlikely or overstated" or something. dab (ᛏ) 13:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I should probably point out here that the primary sources listed: Documents of trials, etc, clearly indicate that a modenrn context is being considered.
E.g., they're meant to avoid people writing on, say, an actress' divorce from running off and getting a copy of the divorce trial, spilling all sorts of new nasty private information onto Wikipedia. Are we seriously trying to say that notable, published historical documents are inappropriate for historical sources? Or, ad absurdum, that an article on, say, The Importance of Being Earnest must avoid using the play as its source? No! This is ridiculous, and the guideline is probably being misinterpreted. Adam Cuerden talk 17:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Should there be a separate succession box for prince of Novgorod, khan (claimant) to Bulgaria, etc.? Also, are there any indications that Sviatoslav used the title Khagan Rus'?
The Russian Wikipedia claims that Svyatoslav's conquests are comparable (by area) to those of Alexander the Great. Could anybody check the size of territories conquered by the two? -- Ghirla -трёп- 06:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
In fact, if you look at the map above, which I created and which was removed by another user because it depicted too large an area of rule, you will see that the area depcited there is still considerably less than 2.1 million sq. miles. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 16:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
There is a very nice statue of Svyatoslav, by Eugene Lanceray, see here. I'm not sure whether we may upload it, in regard to our copyright rules. -- Ghirla -трёп- 16:26, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Do we know what year this picture was taken? It might be public domain Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 03:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Svyatoslav's foreign policy is being discussed here. Comments are welcome. -- Ghirla -трёп- 13:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
The extent of Kievan Rus' to the Dniester River (Southern Ukraine, present-day Moldova and Transnistria is being discussed here: Talk:History of Transnistria. There is some confusion and the input from specialists would be appreciated. - Mauco 06:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I really like this article. Would nominating it for FA be appropriate, think ye? Adam Cuerden talk 15:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I've uploaded a newer, somewhat more conservative version of the map incorporating his subjugation of the Alans
Looking at random pages, I saw that Battle of Silistra said "Kievan knyaz Sviatoslav Igorevich..." It's not my field, so I mention it here so someone who knows can deal with it. Tom Harrison Talk 02:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
It should be part of Ukrainian history portal. (unsigned)
"Sviatoslav began by rallying the Khazars' East Slavic vassal tribes to his cause." What's the point of mentioning of adding "East" to Slavic? Division of Slavs into three categories was performed in 19th century.
The article says: "East Slavic: Святослав Ігоревич". There is no one language called "East Slavic" (see East Slavic). This looks like the modern spelling in Ukrainian or Belarusian (I am not sure), but certainly not in Russian which has no letter "І" but uses "И" in its place. Tsf 12:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
He was not germanic king. What you do not agree? I simply corrected incorrect information. It is not a test. And the Russian work kniaz is really derived from Germanic one, but it is more correct call Sviatoslav by his Russian title rather than German.-- 212.176.15.250 14:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
What an occult, nationalistic nonsese (LOL). Kniaz was purest Slavic word (i would not wonder if the same occultists would also claim that "indo european" word Mama / Mother also derives from Germanic "Mutter" or Milk from germanic origin too). The transliteration of Kniez, Knez is "konyez" (from kon, kony; "the horse (man)".
Please lock his IP from editing... Look at his history. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.182.27.196 ( talk) 20:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC).
I added a link to Sviatoslav's link family tree] to the article a few hours ago because he happens to be one of the earliest ancestors to most members of royal families in Europe like the Windsors for instance. This information is new and, I guess, interesting almost to everybody. However, the link was removed by one of the editors. My question is why?.. -- Stanley78 22:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you. Honestly, I just loved the web-site. I just don't see how we can include the link for the style reasons. We cannot use it as a ref. We could use it as an "External link" but we do not have such section and even having them is usually a bad idea. I am looking forward for the way to include the link. -- Irpen 23:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Prince Charles Philip Arthur George Windsor, or Prince Charles, the husband to the late Princess Diana, is in the 40th (XL) generation while Sviatoslav is in the 5th (V) in the family tree at http://en.rodovid.org/wk/Special:Tree/561. -- Stanley78 23:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Sviatoslav was the great grandfather to Anne of Kiev, the daughter of Yaroslav the Wise. It was Anne who united the bloods of Western and Eastern European royal families. -- Stanley78 23:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to comment an article about Sveneld, Varangian warlord of Sviatoslav, which seem to have been Mixed up with Sviatoslav I of Kiev(Marie Wikipedia fan)2008-06-15 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.249.24.192 ( talk) 20:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Unless my eyes are lying to me, I cannot find a single reference to the work written by the authors Franklin and Shepard. Perhaps someone can list the title and publication information of their book/article?-- The Diamond Apex ( talk) 14:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks!-- The Diamond Apex ( talk) 14:48, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Name Svyatoslav DOES exist in medieval Slavic states, in exactly the same time period...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetoslav_of_Croatia
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetoslav_Suronja
due to linguistic differentiations, old slavic -jat wowel tranformed to characteristic wowels -e, -je or -ije that differ modern Slavic languages...
in Croatian, word svet means holy, while word svijet means world
Also, check on bottom of above web URL's - lineage of Croatian kings and princes, and their names...
all the -slav and -mir endings that you can imagine
My name is Krešimir (Kreshymeer), and there is no EXACTLY that name in any Slavic language today, but there is Krassimir in Bulgarian and Russian, and they mean the same:
it is light (fire, bonefire) that illuminates the world - hence, this is one of manifestations of Sun God Svarog, as god of wisdom
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
93.143.153.80 (
talk)
08:35, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Коллеги, как по-вашему будет лучше перевести на английский язык его коронное:
Russian: "Хочу на вас идти" =
Church Slavonic: "Иду на вы": "I am going to you", "I am going against you", "I'm going to conquer you", "I'm going to fight you" или так как я перевёл в самой статье? Какие есть предложения? Некая Дарра Гольдштейн переводит следующим образом: "I'm coming against you".
P.S. Послание, отправленное им в Царьград было следующим: «Хочу на вас идти, возьму ваш город, как взял Болгарскую Преславу». --
George Serdechny
13:05, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
So, he had slavic name, gave his son a slavic name, worshiped slavic gods, but he was a Viking?
I have added part about Perun and Veles (which was removed by the same user who inserted the viking thingy), because it's not true that Primary Chronicle doesn't mention that. I don't know how to insert additional reference properly, but somebody else can do it, if I did something wrong. Here it is:
Russian traditional culture: religion, gender, and customary law, Marjorie Mandelstam Balzer, p. 4, ISBN:1-56324-039-4 (c), ISBN:ISBN:1-56324-040-8 (p)
http://books.google.com/books?id=WdCYt7zc8eEC&pg=PA3&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false -- Faveladweller ( talk) 17:31, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
So called "Varangians" as is believed weren't Swedish Vikings. But Vikings and Variags were not one and the same in reality, because Variags were elite Venedic (old Slavic) military units, trained since their childhood, which were mentioned also by gothic historian Adam von Bremen, where he described this military slavic tribe called Vagri, Vagrians. Their capital city was called Stargrad ("old city")and after that they became rulers over Rus (old Venetic Slavic) tribe. Their capital city was brought to Novgorod ("new city"). Rus derived from territorial place of Rasenia (in latin sources as "Ruthenia"- as occult perversion), which means "dispersion" (rassenia, rassenit; to disperse). Besides there remained 0 of so called "germanic" words in Russian, Ukrainian vocabulary, it was in reality opposite. That Swedish (old vendic origin) people remained more Slavic words than Russians germanic words. Here i read attempts that "Sviatoslav" might be germanic king, transliterated in Slavic. Swiatoslav as his ancestors were all of Slavic origin. So again, don't mix Vikings with Variags. Vikings were from Jarl Swedish tribes, when Variags were from Venetic slavic tribes, elite units, trained since their childhood. And then invited into Veche (a popular slavic assembly), like was also "1." Russian Khan ("great one")- general (when civilian ruler was Kniaz or Knez) Riurik.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Sviatoslav I of Kiev. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:24, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Sviatoslav I of Kiev. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:17, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
The article as it stands does not meet FA criteria due to lack of citations for content. The problem is worse than it appears because some footnotes are not in fact references, but themselves contain unverified information such as: "The exact date of Sviatoslav's Bulgarian campaign, which likely did not commence until the conclusion of his Khazar campaign, is unknown." If the article isn't consistently verifiable to high-quality reliable sources, it will need featured article reasssment. ( t · c) buidhe 06:58, 25 February 2021 (UTC)