The nominated redirect was
Kept. Essays in Wikipedia space have no more legitimacy than ones in user space. If people feel target should be in Wikipedia space, than I suggest they try to convince
Daduzi to move it there. --
JLaTondre
14:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
The user wrote up an essay on Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. The user made the page to look like a genuine Wikipedia policy or a guideline, but if you read it closely it is not. I feel like people are using this redirect link to trick people into thinking that what they are saying is Wikipedia policy, but it is not. This fraudulent link needs to be removed to avoid confussion.
Pinkkeith
20:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep. The redirect is useful (in fact, on discovering it I put it on my userpage), and when followed is clearly a user subpage. At the risk of irony, I like it. (Fortunately, such arguments are appropriate in non-article space.) —
Saxifrage
✎
21:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Comment It reminds me of other web based scams where you click on something and it looks like it is a legitament page but it isn't. This is a dangerous page. If you like the user's essay, use the main link. --
Pinkkeith
21:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep, it's tagged as an essay at the top, just like
WP:DICK,
WP:CRUFT and others. Essays can have shortcuts.
Night Gyr (
talk/
Oy)
21:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Comment
Wikipedia:Shortcut: "Shortcuts" in Wikipedia are a specialized type of redirection page that can be used to get to a Wikipedia project reference page more quickly Note that it doesn't say redirection to user pages.
- Keep. For comparison, look at WP:WPR and scroll down to 'Department of Fun'. Clearly there is some tolerance of non-policy items in the WP shortcut name space (cf. WP:DUCK, WP:STUPID). I personally find Daduzi's essay interesting and might refer to it in the future. Since it's labelled as an essay I think the risk of misconstruing it as settled policy is small. If you look in the Talk page of his article, you'll see that some of his commenters like it so much they want it to be a guideline.
EdJohnston
21:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- The Department of Fun are all in Wikipedia space too. If others want to see the article made an official guide then then it could be directed there. Until then this is dangerous and unethical. --
Pinkkeith
21:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Comment The WP: redirect and the Wikipedia namespace being official policy and guidelines only is an assumption you made. The assumption is untrue, and to be honest I'm not sure why you make that assumption. We could have a separate namespace for non-policies/guidelines, but why? The WP namespace is fine, along with templates that clearly mark guidelines and policies as such.
ColourBurst
23:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep its a shortcut to an interal document that is only relevant to the Wikipedia. Just because its not in the wikipedia name space doesn't mean anything.
WP:HELP goes to the help name space. The fact it says on the header "This is an essay. It is not a policy or guideline. Please update the page as needed, or discuss it on the talk page." should tell anyone what the document is. If it really bothers people move the essay to the wikipedia name space. —
Mitaphane
talk
03:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep, useful shortcut for good essay.
Kusma
(討論)
11:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep, useful.
Voretus
talk
18:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Strong Delete It is a cross-namespace redirect, which is fishy to begin with, and then the fact that the WP namespace is redirecting to a user page hosting something that looks like an official guideline... is just too much. Should definitely be deleted as The redirect might cause confusion. and to a lesser extent as a cross-namespace redirect. --
Dgies
08:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Move the target to
Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. The number of people having contributed or commented on the talk page shows that this is in fact no longer a personal essay, so it is suitable to the wikipedia namespace.
Tizio
16:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep, disclaimer makes it clear that it's not an official guideline. Would also back the move described above if the article is looked over by some non-contributors first.
Sockatume
17:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Move the target per Tizio. --
Renesis (
talk)
17:47, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Move per Tizio. ~
BigrTex
02:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep the redirect. Whether or not to promote the target from a private essay to a generally accepted guideline page is a separate decision - it is not appropriate to attempt to decide that in this forum.
Rossami
(talk)
05:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Move the target per Tizio et al. Technically, we're not
MfD, but it obviously has a fair degree of support as an essay, and that will solve the policy problem with the shortcut. Gavia immer (
u|
t|
c)
18:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Move essay and keep redirect. Per reasons above which I cannot explain better. --
Kunzite
05:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Shrug If cross name space redirect is a major concern (and I don't feel as strongly about it as many regulars on RfD do), then I'd rather move the essay to Wikipedia space than eliminate the redirect. The redirect has somewhere between 50 and 100 links to it, mostly in AFD, so maybe 25-50 real calls going back to July 25, or about once every three days. No strong reason to come down one way or another for me, but I'd choose keep untouched as first choice and move the target as second choice.
GRBerry
20:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep and move, even though this is leveraging RFD in unintended ways. This seems to have gained enough traction to be an essay in the Wikipedia space. But it's clearly marked as an essay, so the argument for deletion holds no merit. --
nae'
blis
16:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep (and possibly move) Policy does not dictate that cross-namespace redirects are prohibited. Additionally, the fact that this is not a guideline or policy is clearly and in no uncertain terms marked at the top of the page. If people fail to notice that then, frankly, they're idiots. Finally, I feel the essay is significant, useful, and relevant enough that it should be moved to the Wikipedia namespace anyway, which would render the nominator's argument null and void. --
Y|yukichigai
21:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Move the essay. It's not a guideline nor policy, but essays are allowed WP: style redirects. While ILIKEIT probably doesn't have enough eyes yet for it to become anything more than an essay, it is still useful.
ColourBurst
23:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The nominated redirect was
Deleted. --
JLaTondre
14:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
Some nationalism seems to be at play here. There were plenty of "saviours" in the history of Europe (
Alexander I of Russia was one). Until the term is generally established among scholars, the misleading redirect has to go. --
Ghirla
-трёп-
17:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Delete per my nom. --
Ghirla
-трёп-
17:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Delete. The term is not in general use, and cannot escape being POV. Gavia immer (
u|
t|
c)
18:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- As Ghirlandajo notes, a variety of people (
William Pitt the Younger, Alexander I of Russia, etc...) have been referred to with the epithet "The Saviour of Europe." So unless anyone thinks that this redirect should be turned into a special sort of disambiguation page listing all people who can be shown, with
reliable sources, to have been widely referred to with this term, I say delete.
Picaroon9288
21:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Delete or turn into some sort of disambiguation page/article. Do not keep as a redirect to this one person, no. --
nae'
blis
16:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Delete per nom.--
Aldux
13:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The nominated redirect was
Kept. --
JLaTondre
14:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
Serbia was not independent in 1999, it was part of
FR Yugoslavia //
Laughing Man
16:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep - Does not qualify under reasons for deleting a redirect except as a borderline case of The redirect might cause confusion. Someone confused in this manner would be helpfully corrected by being redirected to the article. --
Dgies
16:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- This is also an example of The redirect makes no sense as it is factually inaccurate. Also please be advised that this redirect was created yesterday to simply make a
point. //
Laughing Man
17:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Factually inaccurate is not the same as nonsensical. Yugoslavia contained Serbia so this redirect does make sense. It may however be politically motivated, but I wouldn't know. --
Dgies
21:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep - I’m sick and tired of this kind of “
Serbian Guard
Cabal“ here in Wikipedia. Nobody in the
Western World
free
media (and other media outlets too) refered to the NATO campaign as “NATO Bombing of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia” because since no bomb was dropped and no bullet was fired by the military organization in
Montenegro, whose leader
Milo Djukanovic distanced the republic from
Milosevic regime since he came to Montenegrin power in 1998. Here’s the proof:
-
Image:Milo djukanovic.jpg Montenegro leader
Milo Djukanovic and Secretary of Defense
William Cohen at Pentagon, November 4, 1999 — few months after NATO attacks on Serbia in
Kosovo War]]
So, as I said
here, even the title “1999 NATO bombing of Serbia” is better than “NATO bombing of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia” — the latter title was just common in the
semi-free and non-free media from
Russia,
Belarus and Milosevic’s
Serbia — and the three were
politically linked at the time.
Yes, the redirect makes sense and is factually accurate because Montenegro wasn’t the target of NATO. The target was the Milosevic regime and their
ethnic cleansing policies in Kosovo. That’s it--
MaGioZal
20:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Comment - As you can see from the comments by
MaGioZal, he or she has created this redirect simply to make a
WP:POINT (that he could reference in a discussion, see
[1] for more background). There has been a discussion on the name of the article, and MaGioZal created this redirect to support his view on what the article title should be, just because he or she could. //
Laughing Man
21:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- So, by now, 2 votes for keeping the redirect against 1 objection.--
MaGioZal
21:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Here’s another proof of what I said about the reasons why is appropiate to keep the redirect:
an article on today’s
Washington Post about Kosovo status and brief history. And in no part of the article the word “Federal Republic of Yugoslavia” is used:
“Kosovo has been a U.N. protectorate since NATO bombed Serbia in 1999 to force late Serb leader Slobodan Milosevic to pull out his troops, accused of killing ethnic Albanian civilians while trying to crush a guerrilla insurgency.”
And there’s many more articles on respectable sources with the same wording.--
MaGioZal
22:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
- Keep. It absolutely makes sense. --
Renesis (
talk)
17:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
reply
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.