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The result was keep.  Frank  |   talk  22:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Anthrax hoaxes

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Wikipedia is not a collection of news headlines. Tavix |  Talk  23:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep - it needs to be rewritten and better cited, but I don't see what policy or guideline this violates. Bearian ( talk) 17:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Reply WP:NOT#NEWS. Tavix |  Talk  02:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• keep and improve. Significant part of the history of the entire set of anthrax events: more hoaxes than actual. Either make it into a list article (probably and then rename it as a list) or a regular article (maybe not). Hmains ( talk) 01:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, news appearances doesn't remove notabilty. Anthrax hoaxes is obviously a common phenomenon. 96T ( talk) 15:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep. The correct responses to a list of mostly unsourced and probably non-notable anthrax hoaxes would have been to turn it into an article about anthrax hoaxes, as I've done. Deletion is a blunt-edged tool and wasn't appropriate here. Fences& Windows 21:38, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 21:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

List of current Vice Presidents

List of current Vice Presidents (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Delete as an unreferenced list with a non-notable intersection. "current" is not static, which provides significant challenge for being encyclopedic. Tavix |  Talk  23:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep Although in poor state, it is comprable to List of current heads of state and government. There is nothing wrong with current articles. See that, List of Permanent Representatives to the United Nations, List of current United States governors, etc. It is perfectly relevant to list current second-in-commands. Reywas92 ^Talk 02:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep But wouldn't it be better as a chart so we can see the previous years too. Each year should be a column. -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) ( talk) 07:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep Article needs refs and some other work, but the topic is notable and there is precedent, as per Reywas93. Cerebellum ( talk) 15:16, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per Reywas92 et al. This can be fixed in the normal editing process. Lists are more difficult to maintain than categories, but that both are allowed, by consensus and precedent. This is a list that would be of obvious use to our readers. Bearian ( talk) 19:02, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - Needs a lot of work, but there's not really anything wrong with its topic. Will be hard to maintain, but not impossible. Can't see any violation of WP:LIST, Lord Spongefrog , (Talk to me, or I'll eat your liver!) 20:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete and possibly redirect to List of current heads of state and government. Just because it can be maintained by someone, in theory, doesn't mean that it can or will. And I'm not convinced that it will be. JBsupreme ( talk) 09:01, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep It would probably look nicer in the form of a table, but it's obvious from all of the articles called "Vice-President of _______" that there are people who do keep an eye on such things. Part of the process of bringing it up to a current state will be to add this link to the other articles. I suppose that it's possible that it might not be maintained even after it is linked to other articles, but I'm not particularly bothered by that possibility. Mandsford ( talk) 19:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

It turns out that there were three changes that needed to be made. Mandsford ( talk) 19:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Obvious keep - sloppiness is not a reason to delete an article, and at this point it doesn't look so bad anyway. The fact that it will require updating on a regular basis is no reason to delete it either. Things change; that's what makes Wikipedia such an ideal medium for an encyclopedia. And it's not like we're talking about the spelling bee champions of an obscure elementary school here...it's the second- or third-in-command in most countries.  Frank  |   talk  02:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep needs some TLC, but it's definitely a notable list. The implied qualifier that this only lists political positions (as opposed to, say corporate ones) should be made explicit. Them From Space 03:19, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:54, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

BBClone

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The subject software of this article is non-notable and entirely unsourced. It has never been sourced. There was an AfD in 2006 when web software had no notability standards and the reason to keep then (google hits) would not result in the article being kept now. Miami33139 ( talk) 23:30, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete: I can't find significant coverage for this software. Joe Chill ( talk) 02:27, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Nothing I can find in a reliable source. -- Glenfarclas ( talk) 02:42, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Tragic death, but aside from his death he didn't received significant coverage. Didn't pass WP:ATHLETE and WP:MEMORIAL applies. Fences& Windows 00:09, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Bernd Dittrich

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Non-notable athlete. Does not pass WP:ATHLETE. While his death is tragic, it is not notable and Wikipedia is not a WP:MEMORIAL. Reywas92 ^Talk 23:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Keep. Actually the main reason I created the page was based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_in_2009 listing where Bern Dittrich appeared as an entry for 11 November 2009 and stayed there as a red link for quite a while. When an entry for death of an individual stays there for almost a month without ever being challenged or deleted, it is an indication of its importance. He has also played in three different formations, in Vienna, in the States and in Vancouver, Canada werldwayd ( talk) 06:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Anyone can add an article to the Deaths list as long as there's an obit. I have complained about that on its talk page: not everything there is notable. I have multiple times deleted/challenged redlinks on that page, but its regulars claim pages should be there for a month once added, no matter how non-notable. Although the Vienna team may be semi-professional, high school and college playing sure as heck don't count. Just because someone dies and is listed there does not mean he passes notability. Reywas92 ^Talk 22:50, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Weak Delete - Really? Almost a month? I thought there was a bot assigned to stop redlinks being added to these pages. Anyway, he still fails WP:ATHLETE. His death seemed to get some coverage, however, ( [1], [2]) though I'm not sure if this is enough to assert his notability, Lord Spongefrog , (Talk to me, or I'll eat your liver!) 17:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Weak delete per Lord Spongefrog. It would appear that he's only notable because of his death; sadly, Wikipedia is not a memorial. SMC ( talk) 06:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Not sufficiently notable as an athlete, and his death, while tragic, was not a genuinely notable one (cf. Jasper Howard), some news coverage notwithstanding. -- Glenfarclas ( talk) 02:46, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 21:55, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Escape to donegal

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Per WP:NFF, this has only recently entered production, and the production itself is not notable. Wait until they're in post-production to add it. — ShadowRanger ^{( talk| stalk)} 22:58, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete as nom - for reasons given above. — ShadowRanger ^{( talk| stalk)} 22:59, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete, WP:NFF is clear about pre-release, and the production itself is not notable, no coverage except press releases from February 2009. A Wiki article should wait for the film's release. Chuckiesdad/ Talk/ Contribs 23:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep - this film is produced by Jeffrey Wetzel who produced THE HANGOVER. this is a major motion picture with a major star. (Alan Cumming) See IMDB page. this film was featured in VARIETY earlier this year - WikiEditor20100 —Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiEditor20100 ( talk • contribs) 23:26, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - You still haven't said how the production itself is notable. Has anything happened in the production that would have notability? You need to read WP:NFF, then, if you still believe this is notable, explain why this film is an exception to the general rule that films still in production do not get articles. Is this film magically immune to being scrapped? Did one of the stars throw a hissy fit about their role? Or is it just like most productions where there is little to no news aside from press releases and puff pieces that tell you little except how much star power it has? — ShadowRanger ^{( talk| stalk)} 00:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete for reasons given. Eeekster ( talk) 02:47, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - per nom Cynof Gavuf 10:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom and above; pretty sure notability isn't transitive in that way. If it isn't notable in itself... SMC ( talk) 10:53, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Weak Keep: Per [3], [4], [5], and [6]. Joe Chill ( talk) 20:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Merge with Alan Cumming per WP:NFF. Cerebellum ( talk) 22:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy Delete per WP:CSD#G11. ( non-admin closure) A Stop at Willoughby ( talk) 00:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

UAS Laboratories, Inc.-The Probiotic Company

UAS Laboratories, Inc.-The Probiotic Company (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Blatant advertising of an organisation. Eight Ounce Kitten ( talk) 22:49, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Speedy delete: G11 - blatant advertising page Random Time 22:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Speedy delete: G12 - Ignoring the advertising, it's blatant copyvio. I've CSD-ed. — ShadowRanger ^{( talk| stalk)} 22:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Brett Luskin

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I found one ref besides myspace here. The article has been cleaned up good by editors, but it started as a poor vanity article. Is the one ref enough to keep this, afaik fails all of wp:music Pirate ^Argh!!1! 22:29, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Does not appear to pass criterion 1 of WP:MUSICBIO, as I can not find that he "has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works". Neither does he seem to satisfy any of the other criteria.  Gongshow  ^Talk 22:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Speedy delete - The article says he's a member of a group called Shotty No Blitz. As you can see, that's a red link, so surely if a band is non-notable, then its members are also non-notable. DitzyNizzy (aka Jess)| (talk to me)| (What I've done) 00:13, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - As the one who removed all of the nonsense from the article in the first instance i found it very lacking in any real content but felt it would be hypocritical for me to nom it for deletion. It could have been taken as bitey. The one ref that was subsequently found by the nominator isn't enough to meet WP:MUSIC. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 09:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. — J04n( talk page) 13:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per DitzyNizzy; I should also note that I was unable to find any references for the band. The Corsair piece in the external links is this article's best shot, but I don't think we can justify an article based on a single news story. Cerebellum ( talk) 22:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete a single article in a college paper does not establish notability -- Whpq ( talk) 17:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect to The Giver. I'm redirecting, editors can pick whatever material might be useful out of the history. Fences& Windows 00:11, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

The Giver Trilogy

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Article is all original research and there is already an article on Wikipedia - The Giver. Eight Ounce Kitty 21:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

• Redirect (without merge) to The Giver.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 21:58, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Redirect The article is in a sad state, and this trilogy is usually not described in detail. The second two novels are considered follow-ups to The Giver. All three are rarely discussed. Angryapathy ( talk) 22:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Merge The information here is specific to the books mentioned. The 'trilogy' itself is not an actual trilogy, but three books that happen to take place within the same fictional setting. They each stand alone, and so should their articles. I will take on the clean up of the second and third books mentioned. The Giver is strong as it stands. Sabiona ( talk) 19:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect to ItaloBrothers. JForget 21:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Stamp on the ground

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Contested prod - original prod rationale was that it failed WP:NSONGS; I'm inclined to agree Falcon8765 ( talk) 21:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Speedy Delete per A9 No evidence of song (or band for that matter) to meet WP:N. Angryapathy ( talk) 22:11, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Comment An A9 speedy would be declined because the band, ItaloBrothers, has an article. 71.255.89.120 ( talk) 00:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Lots of Ghits, but that's not a sufficient reason to keep an article. I'm not finding any in-depth coverage for the song, so unless such evidence is presented, it appears to fail WP:NSONGS.  Gongshow  ^Talk 22:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Possibly replace with redirect to ItaloBrothers. There's just not relevant content available to warrant an independent article. -- Tjohns ✎ 14:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.

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• Merge/Redirect to ItaloBrothers per Tjohns. Cerebellum ( talk) 22:14, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. And since we've no place to go...... ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 01:06, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Waldron Mercy Academy

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One award and one reference in a local paper is not enough to keep in the face of our usual presumption that grade schools are not notable. ukexpat ( talk) 21:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Post nomination comment: The text also appears to be very close to a copyvio of this page. –  ukexpat ( talk) 22:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• I compared the text and believe that the information in Waldron Mercy Academy has been sufficiently paraphrased as to avoid a copyright violation. Cunard ( talk) 01:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep - WP:COI notwithstanding, the Blue Ribbon Schools Program award does make it notable.-- Blargh29 ( talk) 21:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. -- ukexpat ( talk) 22:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

UKexpat - Adding an article on Wikipedia has become a lot more difficult than I thought it was going to be. Your assertion "One award and one reference in a local paper is not enough to keep in the face of our usual presumption that grade schools are not notable" is disappointing. It's a national award given by the US Dept. of Education. Very few schools across the country have won more than once--we've received it twice. The reference is from The Philadelphia Inquirer, which has a circulation of a few million subscribers. Trishlockett ( talk) 22:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I am aware that you are a teacher for this school that the article's title clearly states is that right? Eight Ounce Kitten ( talk) 22:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Actually no, I'm the marketing director, not a teacher. Let me give you some background on why I've spent several hours of my day here today. I went to a workshop yesterday on social media and the CIO of a school whose school's article is on WP told all of us how easy and beneficial it was to be on Wikipedia. So, I jumped on here this morning. Again, I had no idea it was going to be so difficult. Any suggestions? Trishlockett ( talk) 22:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

For one thing, tell that CIO that they are not being beneficial when they edit articles with a conflict of interest and misadvise others to do likewise. -- Orange Mike | Talk 23:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete - non-notable school. -- Orange Mike | Talk 23:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Strong keep - not only a Blue Ribbon school, the highest award an US school can receive, but a double award winner. Couple that with a bunch of notable alumni and plenty of sources that meet WP:ORG and it makes a convincing case for notability. COI we deal with by editing and, if necessary, by the use of admin tools - advise/warn/block. This is also a case where WP:BEFORE procedures should have been applied. This was AfD'd less than 2 hours after creation and there is no indication that the nominator has searched and evaluated available sources nor considered the merit of the awards. The way forward is clean/source/expand not delete. TerriersFan ( talk) 23:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep – I'm satisfied by the History section, not the Awards section, that the institution deserves an article. I should note that my opinion comes from one helluva' anti-Catholic; just one who thinks that History ought to be preserved and defended in an encyclopedia. The WP:COPYVIO problem can be solved by further editing and referencing. If da' penguin did something of an institutional nature in the US in 1861 that still stands in 2009, then it is notable achievement of said penguin. In this case, notable enough for an article (I considered merge to the Catherine McAuley article, but this would end up lopsided in that article). Per WP:SS I consider this article a spin-off the Catherine McAuley article.

My opinion rationalizing my keep vote comes largely from the New Melleray Abbey article, an article about some old guys in a house. A notable article about notable old guys in a notable old house that dates to 1849: Plenty historic enough for Wikipedia at over three million articles; and I appreciate being able to learn about it here, and then being able to research more off Wikipedia because of the WP:EL provided there.

However, it's easy to see that this article needs work. There are plenty of resources for this, including WP:UFY, WP:INCUBATE, and notably in this case, WP:SUP (note to Trishlockett, click on each link to see what I'm talking about). It's not hard to forgive Trishlockett a blatant WP:COI here, the editor is new and missed doing some research first; some research that involves sifting through hundreds, if not thousands, of policy and guideline articles. Trishlockett, as a member of an educational institution, may want to look more in to what these institutions actually do, and less time listening to CIO's. I've no doubt the kids being educated there, with the teachers' help, can trundle down to the library and find the references I expect in the article, none of which, I note, will be found on Google Scholar because of their age (last I heard 1861 predates 1994), and will probably need some good dusting when they're found. Get out the teachers, mobilize the kids, per Wales, and fix the article, don't delete it. — Aladdin Sane ( talk) 00:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep Blue Ribbon schools are notable. Furthermore, this article confirms that M. Night Shyamalan, a two-time Academy Award-nominated filmaker, attended this school. The article lists more notable alumni. Two Blue Ribbon awards and multiple alumni confirm that this school is notable. Cunard ( talk) 01:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep due to multiple Blue Ribbon awards. Notable alumni is not sufficient criteria, as notability is not inherited. Original author has been sufficiently minnowed. -- SquidSK ^{(1MC• log)} 01:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Thank you all for your input and your patience for this WP newbie. I'll continue to work on the article. What a great idea involving our students. They've probably already contributed to other articles in the past. I apologize for my naivete. Trishlockett ( talk) 02:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep This school seems to have more notability than most schools that are the subject of articles. I'm impressed that Trishlockett didn't become hostile, which is what most newbies with COI would do. Thanks for being good-natured, Trishlockett! -- Biglovinb ( talk) 09:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Strong keep I would advise the nominator to read WP:ORG, specifically this: "The organization’s longevity, size of membership, or major achievements, or other factors specific to the organization may be considered." The Blue Ribbon Award is certainly a major achievement, and the longevity is also a factor, as noted by User:Aladdin Sane. Also, it is misleading to refer to the 16th largest newspaper in the United States as a "local paper". Coverage in the Philadelphia Enquirer goes a long way towards establishing notability. Finally, as the nominator's assertion that grade schools are not generally notable, I'm having difficulty finding that in any of the notability guidelines; could you please provide a link to whatever policy that's from? Cerebellum ( talk) 15:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

the general rule is a practical rule based on experience: in the last 3 years essentially all articles of primary schools have been merged or redirected to the school district or town or whatever seems the best place. None have been kept as separate articles unless there is some really special distinction, as there is here. At first, I personally did not want to accept Blue Ribbon as sufficiently special, but the consensus has consistently been that they are. What we consistently do is policy just as much as what we write down. It is often much easier getting consensus at AfD, than at a formal policy discussion,which requires an undefined supermajority--which in practice tends to mean that a few people stubbornly objecting can prevent adoption. DGG ( talk ) 04:35, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Snow Keep. Per all the above keeps. Not even close.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 23:54, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Comment. Just a suggestion -- if the nom is agreeable at this point to this closing as a snow keep, that might perhaps save some people some time.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 00:16, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Comment - I believe you're thinking of speedy keep, not snow, and only if Orange Mike also retracts his deletion support would it qualify. An admin can close the AfD early citing a snow keep but that's up to the admin's judgment, not any actions taken in this discussion. -- Atama 頭 00:56, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. I'm deleting before Transwiki. This material is no use to Wiktionary, the sources aren't any good: they need permanently archived sources that attest to the use, not websites, and most of those terms are in Wiktionary anyway. If anyone wants a copy for userspace, let me know. Fences& Windows 00:19, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

List of slang terms for fat people

List of slang terms for fat people (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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A combination of an indiscriminate list and, primarily, a list of dictionary words. Coming from the second link, "Wikipedia articles are not dictionary articles, are not whole dictionaries, and are not slang and usage guides." (bolding mine). Additionally, the references used are very iffy: going through, the most unreliable sources used are about.com, wiktionary, urbandictionary, and slangsearch. Mm40 ( talk) 21:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete Poorly sourced and poorly organized list. Belongs at Urbandictionary, not here. Angryapathy ( talk) 22:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete we are not a dictionary. also, see List of slang terms for police officers for an even more poorly sourced list of this type, which i would recommend for deletion. if we did allow such lists, we would obviously have more than this one and List of terms for white people in non-Western cultures. List of terms for ethnic exogroups links to articles, thus is an acceptable list here. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 02:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Transwiki to wiktionary 70.29.209.121 ( talk) 05:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per WP:NOTDICTIONARY. A fairly useless list which is just going to act as a magnet for every unsourced piece of slang under the sun (which is pretty much its' current state of affairs). SMC ( talk) 11:19, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Comment: I'm not sure whether to delete what could be a good article, but it also has potential to become a magnet for vandalism. I'd like to see a discussion as to why this list was created. WP:DICT could apply here, as does WP:LIST. Disclosure: I am 200 pounds. Bearian ( talk) 17:44, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per everyone. JBsupreme ( talk) 09:01, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Transwiki to Wiktionary. Kubek15 ^{T C S} 19:01, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete Same descriptions given over and over again. It seems that it would do nothing but pour fuel on the spread of insults of overweight people. The C of E ( talk) 21:28, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete/Transwiki - Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Cocytus [»talk«] 23:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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Google Watch

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The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 01:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Anthony Floyd

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Fails to meet notability guidelines and lacks sources. Article includes very little detail. Sottolacqua ( talk) 20:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NTEMP. I can't even find sources in news articles about him, and the evidence from the page leads me to suspect that any such sources would be a "one time event" indicating his recruitment and/or dismissal. -- Mpdelbuono ( talk) 21:00, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
  • After seeing Angryapathy's source, which I did not find on my own, I agree with his assertion of keep. -- Mpdelbuono ( talk) 23:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per WP:ATHLETE. According to this [7], he played in games for the Indianapolis Colts, which meets "played in the higest level of sports." Angryapathy ( talk) 22:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per WP:ATHLETE. I've added the Colts info and a reference. Mm40 ( talk) 14:09, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per WP:ATHLETE. Cerebellum ( talk) 16:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep: Passes WP:ATHLETE. Joe Chill ( talk) 16:41, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - playing in games for the Indianapolis Colts, a professional team in the NFL, means that he passes WP:ATHLETE and is thus notable. Cocytus [»talk«] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Secret ^account 15:46, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

KOBRA (roller coaster)

KOBRA (roller coaster) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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A stub about a roller coast that is scheduled to start rolling next year. Prod tag disputed by the article's creator. Problems with WP:CRYSTAL and WP:RS. Warrah ( talk) 20:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Add these two sentences to Chessington World of Adventures. Even when it is finished, this particular roller coaster is not likely to be noteworthy enough to merit a full article. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 02:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• SAVE. Do you remember when SAW - The Ride article first started? That was only two sentances long and you idiots never put the deletion tag on it.

-- Cbbcfan ( talk) 10:35, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• No opinion But I think Cbbcfan's comment should stand. It's a fair comment, and I think we're all grown up enough to stand being called idiots. Canthusus ( talk) 11:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

A more direct opinion from this user is seen at this diff [8], to give some reference of weight of the comment left here. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 12:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete: Not even a roller coaster... "amusement ride" is more accurate. Rides of this type aren't in the consensus of amusement park rides notability. WP:N troubles per that and a duck test. Wikipedia is not a directory of every carnival and amusement park ride on the planet. Having checked, "Disc-O" is not a classification of roller coaster, which would have the closest tangent to notability possible. Unless this ride breaks a variety of world records or reaches notability in some other form, this just isn't going to work here, WP:CRYSTAL and WP:RS not withstanding. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 12:12, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

No comment on incivility from User:Cbbcfan, though I'd suggest a reading of WP:GNG and WP:TALK to learn some of the proper vocabulary in Wikipedia discussions. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 12:12, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Comment. It might be worth noting that User:Cbbcfan has been blocked indefinitely for editing abuse. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 17:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Hum. Noted. Thanks for the notice-- that alone can't "count" and theoretically shouldn't matter, however since I see it's almost exclusively related to matters in this article and this AfD, I suppose that suggests a heavy COI in any comments, on top of the COI of being the article primary contributor. Just... on paper. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 03:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

The way I see it... Cbbcfan created the article. It was quickly tagged as an "article for deletion". The user took offence that people were "trying to delete the article" (possibly not understanding that AfD is a discussion process, and also feeling ownership of the article) so reverted the AfD notice. This got the user in an edit war with lots of other editors (myself included) over whether the AfD template should remain, resulting in an inevitable 72 hour ban to allow things to cool down. At the same time, Cbbcfan's comment was removed from this page, thus excluding him/her from the discussion - this really wound the user up and they responded with some very angry words, resulting in an indefinite ban. So, yes, Cbbcfan has been blocked indefinitely for editing abuse, and that was related to this article and this discussion. But I don't think that's a COI that's relevant to whether the article should stay or go. We've got someone who has made useful contributions in the past, who got him/herself in a corner through misunderstanding the process, and responded rather too angrily (personally, I'm not convinced that indefinite block was appropriate - time to calm down might have been more constructive, and I would support a reinstatement if the user requested one and showed that they had learned). All of which is to say that I don't think the status or personality of the original editor of the article is relevant. What matters here is whether the subject of the article is sufficiently notable, and is likely to contain sufficient content for inclusion in Wikipedia. Canthusus ( talk) 10:37, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I concur that the blocked/unblocked status of the article's author does not directly affect the worthiness of the article regarding deletion. It does have some weight on the credibility of the contributor if there are some questionable, unsourced sections of the author's contributions. We should also look at the contributor's overall contributions. This may be a one-time event in which the contributor (and possibly the blocking admin) overreacted. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 01:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete - It's not a roller coaster; it's a flat ride. But in any case, the only coverage about it I could find is [9] which isn't sufficient to establish this as a notable ride. -- Whpq ( talk) 17:38, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Definite consensus to delete. This bio as it stands definitely has no place in Wikipedia. The notability is also very much in doubt. Fences& Windows 20:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Dr. T.R. Gopalakrishnan Nair

Dr. T.R. Gopalakrishnan Nair (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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This is a long and rambling career résumé, and badly written at that. It's an essay, original research, an advert, and I'll welcome anyone who says it ought to be speedied. I just can't quite justify nominating it there. But it has so much that screams "speedy" to me and even looks like a copyvio, though I can't find the source! Fiddle Faddle ( talk) 18:58, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete - It looks like it was speedy deleted before for being a copyvio of http://www.trgnair.org/ . The new one looks like very similar material with near gibberish (e.g. "An ambidextrous personality…") inserted to make it harder to identify as a copyvio. — ShadowRanger ^{( talk| stalk)} 19:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete Non-notable self-promotion. Angryapathy ( talk) 22:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. -- - Spaceman Spiff 03:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete: notability and copyvio issue. -- Redtigerxyz ^Talk 03:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete for non notability.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 07:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep The article is badly written, but the subject meets WP:PROF. Cerebellum ( talk) 16:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:25, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Substance is missing. Xxanthippe ( talk) 10:07, 8 December 2009 (UTC). reply
• Delete. Could not find any entries in WoS using his last name plus the names of various co-authors listed in his CV. His publication venues are evidently not mainstream peer-reviewed journals, although he lists them as such, i.e. "International / National Journals". Impact likely nill and GS shows h-index of 0. Uncontroversial delete. Respectfully, Agricola44 ( talk) 16:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC). reply
• Delete - promotional; I don't there there is enough reliable, third-party information to merit inclusion. Cocytus [»talk«] 23:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Military Aircraft Serial Review

Military Aircraft Serial Review (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Non-notable hobby book for aviation enthusiasts, one of many on the market. Nothing to show why it is anymore notable than any other. Contested prod, article had been deleted a year ago following a prod for lack of notability MilborneOne ( talk) 18:12, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete I second that, doesn't seem worthy of notice. Nuclear Lunch Detected   _Hungry? 18:45, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Detete per nom.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 19:22, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom Nick-D ( talk) 21:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. — Nick-D ( talk) 21:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete: I can't find significant coverage for this book. Joe Chill ( talk) 00:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete, insufficient reliable source references for article subject to pass notability. -- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 08:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. no consensus for deletion JForget 21:46, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Riyadh Shikawi

Riyadh Shikawi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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The attempt to find more reliable sources has failed. The merge proposal has been on the page for ages now. No signs of interest or explanations are given on both talk pages. This article here is solely base on the primary source and the fact that this name was on the FBI list for a while. For me it looks 99 % sure that it is Abdul Rahim al-Sharqawi and in this case i do not think there is much to merge. Abdul Rahim al-Sharqawi has already a section about the rendition, maybe just the fact that he was on the FBI list and then delete and redirect. If we speak about two different individuals than this article should be deleted because it fails WP:BIO notability and my attempt to find reliable secondary sources have failed. IQinn ( talk) 17:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep, "the fact that this name was on the FBI list for a while" seems to miss the fact he was arrested by the CIA, handed over to Jordan, put in Guantanamo Bay....he's somebody a lot more happened to than simply "his name appeared on a list for a while". And generally when the FBI issues a terrorism alert, Wikipedia (rightly) adds an article on the subjects. However, if it is shown that it's the same as the other article, then Merge is appropriate. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 18:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• "Arrested by the CIA, handed over to Jordan, put in Guantanamo Bay..." not in the article so far. Where are the sources for that? Would it be a sign that they are the same person? There is nothing more than that he was on the FBI list for a while. Could you please add the sources if you have? IQinn ( talk) 18:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Introduction to the article says, a Yemeni who is currently held at Guantanamo...He was named as a suspect in a Yemen plot...the FBI discovered that he had been arrested by the CIA and rendered to Jordan. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 18:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Sure, but that's all not sourced. IQinn ( talk) 19:03, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Which is not the basis for an AFD, it's the basis for an {{ unsourced}} tag. I don't mind you adding such a tag - and if nothing can be found in a few months, revisiting the idea of an AFD. I do however mind the idea of deleting an article about an apparently very notable person because people are too lazy to fact-check. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 20:11, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

How do you know they are notable? The creator may say they are notable, but I could create an article saying "TParis00ap is president of the world from 1987-Present". Such a claim would suggest I am notable and by your logic the article should stay until such a time as WP:RS are not found in a few months. WP:V states that the threshold for inclusion is verfiability, not truth. If the "very notable" assertion were sourced so it could be proven, than you would have an argument. But unless it can be verfied, then that sentance cannot support WP:N. Also WP:V puts the burden of sources on the content creator, not the deletion nominator. Unsourced material may be questioned and suggested for deletion.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 19:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

The information was added by a fairly trustworthy editor with 2000+ edits on en.WP - I would give him the benefit of the doubt, although it is legitimate to ask him to add citations and footnotes - WP did not used to work that way, and many editors are/were unaware of the need for footnoting each claim when many of "these" articles were created. Looking at this government publication, this book, and a Google News Archive search...he seems to be who the article claims he is. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 19:54, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

{edit conflict) It is amazing. How many people are there now, that you have attacked in an uncivil way - whenever somebody nominated an article from your project - to Afd for discussion? More than ten? There was time enough to fix it. And you could have fixed it now and you still have time to fix it. This article has been a problem for years. Do not waste time with attacking people. IQinn ( talk) 19:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

User:Iqinn: I don't see any apparent attacks about this subject from User:Sherurcij, but if you know of any I would suggest you bring it to WP:DR instead of here. This discussion should be about the subject, not about incivility by any of the contributors. Let's all refrain from personal attacks here please. I'm not sure if the "too lazy" comment was interpreted by you as an attack, but I hope you understand he did not say you were lazy. He could have meant the content creator was lazy not to add the source. Please always WP:AGF. I suggest a cookie of peace?-- TParis00ap ( talk) 20:05, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

For what it's worth, TParis is correct that my reference to "laziness" is a general inference of an "unreferenced fact". You, me, the creator, the last person to view the article, we all should have spent 20 minutes adding references. We didn't. But that's cause for a clean-up of the article, not its deletion. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 20:10, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

By the way i did check more than 20 minutes and when there is nothing to add than it's time for AfD IQinn ( talk) 20:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I think you've both acted in in good faith. User:Iqinn probobly did spend more than 20 minutes and did his best to find sources. Most folks have different techniques of finding sources and some techniques are better in certain circumstances than others. I find tweaking google searches even a little will produce significantly different results. It's all about having the gut feeling about how to type a search to get the desired results. Apparently User:Sherurcij has found some creditable sources that should be included if we can work it out. I'll see what I can do with what was provided and add the others to "External links". [[WP:V] requires claims to be verified, but it is obvious from the sources provided in this debate that the subject is notable. But unless we can figure out a way to add the sources, we can't meet WP:V. Luckily, WP:V doesn't require WP:RS to be easily verified, only that it is possible. I'll work it a little.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 20:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete per the nom. The user's argument for keep is based on unsourced claims. They are not independantly verifiable. The nom already tried to find sources and could not. User:Sherurcij is suggesting that if someone wrote an autobiogaphy with claims of notability, they should be kept. As far as I know, that is only enough to save someone from WP:CSD, not WP:AfD. Apologies if that is not the case, but that is how I read it.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 19:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Comment I made some changes with the sources suggested by User:Sherurcij but I still support my delete !vote. I made a good faith effort to fix references and use the ones provided. Some of the material provided I did not have the capability to add. However, I would like to note that many of the sources have minute mentions of the subject as an associate of AL-RABEEI which would not support WP:N requirement for significant coverage.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 20:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per User:Sherurcij, and the sources he has linked above. The article meets WP:N. Cerebellum ( talk) 17:01, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  Did you check the sources? Most are trivial mentions that he is an aquaintance of someone else or that he was part of 8 other people removed from the FBI list. Almost none have significant coverage and almost all are trivial mentions. I only say most because I cannot read the books but the snippets suggest the same trivial mentions. WP:N states "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources." User:Sherurcij has proven he exists, not that he is notable.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 17:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

The sources do not suggest he was a tailor who made a suit of clothes for notable people, they suggest he was a terrorist and the subject of an international manhunt. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 18:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

You've got no argument from me there. But they don't say why he was significant or more important than any other terrorist out there. Should we have a page for anyone who has ever held a gun for Al Queda or the Taliban? We need to know why he was significantly more important than any other terrorist.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 18:25, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Al-Qaeda, perhaps. The Taliban, obviously not. Should we have an article on every bank robber? No. Should we have an article on every bank robber who was on the FBI's Most Wanted list and triggered an international manhunt? Yes. Sherurcij ^{( speaker for the dead)} 19:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

In that case, you would have sources saying "He robbed a bank". In this case, we do not have a source that says what he did. Only that he was an aquaintance of someone else and the FBI wanted him.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 19:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tim Song ( talk) 01:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep. Appears to satisfy the GNG; difficulty in categorizing reasons for coverage not grounds for deletion. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 02:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  How is difficulty in coverage not grounds for deletion? The key idea for WP:GNG is significant coverage. This subject does not have any significant coverage. He has quite a few trivial mentions focusing on his removal from the FBI list and nothing else. Please check the sources. WP:V states that the basis for inclusion is verifiability, not truth. We cannot verify anything significant about this person. This may also be a WP:BLP issue (not well versed in BLP). There are quite a few unsourced claims in there. If the unsourced libeus is removed and the trivial sourced content is removed - we no longer have even a stub.--v/r - T P 03:07, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep Impossibility to find sources to verify is grounds for deletion; difficulty with the sources is not. And yes, we should have an article about every individual on the most wanted list: that's a clear sign of national-level importance as a suspect or criminal. The FBI is the appropriate agency to determine that, not Wikipedia. Though they may sometimes jump to unwarranted conclusions, nonetheless they count as an adequately RS. DGG ( talk ) 04:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Speedy redirect to Al Hajj Abdu Ali Sharqawi. This article asserts that Riyadh Shikawi's real name is Abdul Rahim al-Sharqawi and links to that page, which is a redirect to Al Hajj Abdu Ali Sharqawi. If they are the same person, they don't need two separate articles. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:17, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Per Sheru.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 09:05, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Free per click

Free per click (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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The article appears to be OR, based on a concept created by the page's creator and primary author ( Rsantiag. The article has only two sources, both self-published and created by Rodrigo Santiago. Searches did not find any additional references to this concept other than by Santiago. Absent additional sourcing, topic is not notable at this time. Ravensfire ( talk) 17:09, 4 December 2009 (UTC) Ravensfire ( talk) reply

• Delete, this is self-promotion and original research. Haakon ( talk) 17:29, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete as OR. An interesting read, but OR nonetheless. SMC ( talk) 17:47, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom, et al.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 19:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete original research. Doc Strange ^Mailbox Logbook 21:17, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete Probably well intentioned, but not notable, WP:OR and relies on WP:SPS. Johnuniq ( talk) 23:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - there are possible sources, but nothing actually newsworthy, see [10], or reliable. Bearian ( talk) 17:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Cirt ( talk) 11:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

SimplyTweet

SimplyTweet (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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A twitter client with a few reviews linked as sources - but nothing that seems to establish notability. Random Time 16:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep: Per [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], and [16]. Joe Chill ( talk) 22:17, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per Joe. Update the article with these references. SMC ( talk) 06:16, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Updated article with links suggested by Joe. Hboon ( talk) 14:45, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - As far as I can tell, there are enough sources that are reliable and independent of the subject that confer notability. As such, I think that the article should be kept and expanded, with more references. Cocytus [»talk«] 23:30, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, sources listed above demonstrate adequate significance. – Juliancolton |  ^Talk 01:56, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy Delete Zsinj ^Talk 02:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Fake Brit

Fake Brit (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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No reliable sources found Polarpanda ( talk) 15:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT ( talk) 16:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• I couldn't find any sources either - and since the article makes no claim of significance it would seem to be liable to speedy deletion as well. Olaf Davis ( talk) 17:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Speedy delete per WP:CSD criteria A7.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 19:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Speedy delete per above. No indication of notability, and I could not find in-depth coverage for this person.  Gongshow  ^Talk 22:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 01:11, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Leigh Ann Hester

Leigh Ann Hester (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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While I have the highest regard for all our men and women in military service, it has already been established that the Silver Star, as only the third highest award for valor in the order of precedence, is not considered notable in of itself to be suitable criteria for an article on Wikipedia. The fact that Sgt. Hester is female does not change this fact. She is a soldier and we need to make uniform standards for inclusion. Rapier1 ( talk) 17:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Keep - I don't have access to deleted articles and it's unfortunate that (if I'm interpreting your talk page correctly) the article about your father, who was also a Silver Star recipient, was deleted (is that policy written down somewhere?), but in fact Sergeant Hester's gender is exactly what makes her notable. -- CliffC ( talk) 18:21, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Strong Keep. Being the first woman to receive the Silver Star since World War II most certainly makes her a notable and well-known war hero of the Iraq War! -- Evans1982 ( talk) 19:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I don't deny their heroism, in fact, I firmly believe that the Silver Star should be a notable award in of itself (Let's reopen that debate in fact). Having been shouted down on this point, however, I don't agree with the fact that these brave young ladies' gender is enough to make them notable. If the award itself isn't notable, then being the first woman to win it can't be considered notable according to WP:N. It's unfortunate that if these ladies had posed for Playboy they'd merit an article (but as national heroes they don't) and I lament the screwed up societal values that Wikipedia adheres to, but the policies are clearly stated. Being the first woman to win a non-notable award in any given conflict does not make one notable. Rapier1 ( talk) 19:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Comment - this Google News Search turns up 192 hits for her. Although it's a given that her gender is what's responsible for so many articles, this amount of news coverage alone makes her notable. -- CliffC ( talk) 19:57, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep The world media has spoken: The fact that she is a female who received the Silver Star is notable in their eyes. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs)/( e-mail) 03:52, 3 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT ( talk) 16:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep - seeing as though the Silver Star is given to soldiers in combat, and women in the US military are not directly in combat units, these women are unique recipients. Jauerback ^dude?/ _dude. 17:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep: The subject is definitely notable. I'd recommend that the nominator avoid nominating articles that involved Silver Star recipients for deletion because of his conflict of interest. This could potentially be seen as bad faith nominations in retaliation for his Dad's article that was deleted. It seems the nominator is nominating in good faith though, I am just warning of a potential perception.-- TParis00ap ( talk) 21:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 01:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, passes notability per WP:ANYBIO, WP:BIO#Basic criteria, & WP:GNG. -- RightCowftCoast ( talk) 03:41, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep Leigh Ann Hester's notability is unquestionable, really. The Silver Star isn't the Medal of Honor, but it's no trivial award, either, and there aren't that many female Silver Star recipients around. It's quite an achievement, especially considering that the military still bars women from many combat assignments at this time. Methychroma ( talk) 20:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per Davidwr. With the de facto relegation of the Medal of Honor to a posthumous award, the Silver Star is almost second only to the Distinguished Service Cross and her equals ( Navy Cross and Air Force Cross) for those who survive the action. (The Distinguished Service Medals are higher in precedence, but are "end of tour" awards for high ranking officers, not combat decorations. The sources are there and the uniqueness of an award of this level to a female is itself notable. Bradjamesbrown ( talk) 15:20, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - In my opinion, she passes WP:ANYBIO. There certainly seems to be enough reliable, non-trivial coverage of her to merit inclusion. Cocytus [»talk«] 23:26, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 01:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Monica Lin Brown

Monica Lin Brown (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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As with Sgt. Hester: While I have the highest regard for all our men and women in military service, it has already been established that the Silver Star, as only the third highest award for valor in the order of precedence, is not considered notable in of itself to be suitable criteria for an article on Wikipedia. The fact that Sgt. Brown is female does not change this fact. She is a soldier and we need to make uniform standards for inclusion. Rapier1 ( talk) 17:49, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Keep - I don't have access to deleted articles and it's unfortunate that (if I'm interpreting your talk page correctly) the article about your father, who was also a Silver Star recipient, was deleted (is that policy written down somewhere?), but in fact Sergeant Brown's gender is exactly what makes her notable. -- CliffC ( talk) 18:21, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Strong Keep. Highly notable and well-known war hero of the Afghanistan War! As CliffC mentions her gender itself makes her notable as only the second woman since WWII to receive the Silver Star and the only woman of the Afghanistan War to receive the medal. -- Evans1982 ( talk) 19:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I don't deny their heroism, in fact, I firmly believe that the Silver Star should be a notable award in of itself (Let's reopen that debate in fact). Having been shouted down on this point, however, I don't agree with the fact that these brave young ladies' gender is enough to make them notable. If the award itself isn't notable, then being the first woman to win it can't be considered notable according to WP:N. It's unfortunate that if these ladies had posed for Playboy they'd merit an article (but as national heroes they don't) and I lament the screwed up societal values that Wikipedia adheres to, but the policies are clearly stated. Being the first woman to win a non-notable award in any given conflict does not make one notable. Rapier1 ( talk) 19:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep The world media has spoken: The fact that she is a female who received the Silver Star is notable in their eyes. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs)/( e-mail) 03:59, 3 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT ( talk) 16:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Person notable for one event, and as established above, the Silver Star is not a high enough award to automatically confer sufficient notability. What sources there are can be considered news coverage. Powers ^T 17:07, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - seeing as though the Silver Star is given to soldiers in combat, and women in the US military are not directly in combat units, these women are unique recipients. Jauerback ^dude?/ _dude. 17:33, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 01:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, subject passes notability per WP:ANYBIO, & WP:BIO#Basic criteria via significant coverage. -- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 04:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
  • The Silver Star is apparently not considered a notable award, as not every recipient garners an article. Powers ^T 16:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep combination of SS and being female brought her to attention of press, which is what makes her notable. Buckshot06 (talk) 21:27, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep The Silver Star may not be the Medal of Honor, but it's still a distinguished award (third-highest after the Medal of Honor and Distinguished Service Cross), and women who have won it are hardly a dime a dozen. So she's definitely notable. Methychroma ( talk) 23:05, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep WP:NOTE and WP:BIO criteria met, along with "significant coverage" requirement. -- Alan ( talk) 23:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep: Per the other keeps. Joe Chill ( talk) 16:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep: Agree with other reasons to keep article, as per. - Signaleer ( talk) 07:26, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep for the exact same argument made at the other AfD. Bradjamesbrown ( talk) 15:22, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. JForget 21:41, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Nanotech age

Nanotech age (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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wp:crystal. This article seems like a random assortment of predictions about technological developments in the 21st century. I'm not against having this article, but there seems to be no consensus, among the people making these predictions, about what developments will take place, other than the existence of nanotechnology itself in some form. I think this article would have to be entirely rewritten, and have at the very least an outline of the groups of people making these predictions and how they differ from each other. Bob A ( talk) 14:27, 26 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• delete, no need to have a separate article from nanotechnology. Polarpanda ( talk) 18:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC) reply
• If there is no need for the Nanotech age article to be separate from the nanotechnology article, why don't you merge the nanotech age article into the nanotechnology article? GVnayR ( talk) 03:13, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. I would be confident to merge this article into nanotechnology, but I oppose that: the whole content of nanotech age aims at essay-ish and speculative prediction of the future whereas nanotechnology is about realistic technology of today. Nanotechnology is one of the most dynamic fields of science and any prediction for longer than a couple of years is just unrealistic. Materialscientist ( talk) 04:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - How can I make my article less essay-ish? I have cited 25 references in my article and that information should be merged into a related article rather than deleted. After all, I am a avid fan of nanotechnology and Raymond Kurzweil and I would like to see the transhumanists of Wikipedia do more to preserve this knowledge that our sons and daughters could really use someday. GVnayR ( talk) 04:16, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

    I can help but noticing that we've had exactly the same arguments here. Materialscientist ( talk) 04:22, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

    There are interesting and profound differences between us, Materialscientist. I am a transhumanist but I am a not a scientist per se. You are a scientist but "choose" not to practice transhumanism. All the transhumanism "education" that I received came from Vernor Vinge and Raymond Kurzweil. Neither of them have strayed me in the wrong direction because they tend to think unconventionally like me. Maybe conventional scientists shouldn't be dealing with matters related to transhumanism and the Singularity. GVnayR ( talk) 04:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

    You mean "scientific minds" are intrinsically clouded in judging transhumanism and should be excluded from such debates? I don't believe so. Please understand that I, and most other scientists I know, are open to unconventional thinking - just tend to verify things before believing in them. Materialscientist ( talk) 04:36, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

    I found more than 20 references and cited them to the article where appropriate. If it's too much of an essay to be on this website, why don't you alter the style to make it look like an encyclopedia entry? I was conditioned in school to make essays, not encyclopedia entries. GVnayR ( talk) 04:42, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

    For whatever it's worth, i'm a transhumanist, but i come from a rather different memeticity than kurzweil. Bob A ( talk) 18:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

    I just happen to like Kurzweil's memeticity. The first book that I read that was really transhumanist was his "The Singularity is Near" book. GVnayR ( talk) 23:36, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• KEEP The Nanotechnology article is about nanotechnology. The Nanotech age article should be about people's expectations of nanotechnology. These expectations are real world facts that people should know about and deal with. There are 192 United Nations member states that have signed on to Millennium Development Goals.

The debate held at the University of Nottingham [ [17]] in August 2005 on Nanotechnology gives respectable real world opinions about the expectations for the future of Nanotechnology. What predictions are worth considering should be guided by their source from respectable institutions rather than by editors who have contributed to the Nanotechnology article and perhaps see their personal judgement about what is significan threatened.-- Fartherred ( talk) 16:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• Now that I see that more people are aware of the differences between my Nanotech Age article and the nanotechnology article, I will change my vote to keep. GVnayR ( talk) 16:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• Comment - I just got rid of the two dubious sources that Fartherred didn't approve of. After all, I believe this article has a future on Wikipedia. It is strongly suggested that Polarpanda and Materialscientist change their votes to keep because I am working hard to make this article less essay-like and more encyclopedia. GVnayR ( talk) 03:56, 29 November 2009 (UTC) reply

  Looking at the diffs, i don't see any significant improvement in the article. Some of the predictions i, personally, find likely, while some i find unsubstantiated and some i find banal or stupid. Even the ones i find likely are uncertain on account of peak oil. Bob A ( talk) 18:35, 29 November 2009 (UTC) reply

  If you listened to the documentary on the Minority Report DVD very carefully, the futurist said that fossil fuels on are their way out. Things won't come crashing to a halt because of peak oil because renewable energy is going to power everything in the future (i.e., solar, wind, nuclear fusion). GVnayR ( talk) 18:49, 29 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete, per nomination. Speculative articles about things that might be possible in the future are a fine thing, but Wikipedia isn't the proper venue for them. -- Christopher Thomas ( talk) 01:25, 30 November 2009 (UTC) reply

comment I suggest editing the article to bring it up to Wikipedia standards instead of deleting it. Consider this quote from WP:BEFORE "If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a good candidate for AfD." The Millennium Development Goals and the University of Nottingham nanotechnology debates are historical facts worthy of recording.

The informed discussion of what is necessary for colonizing planets is the basis for a group of Wikipedia articles. This demonstrates that some comment about things in the future is proper in Wikipedia. If unsourced and poorly sourced claims are removed from "Nanotech age" it can be well on its way to being a fine article.-- Fartherred ( talk) 02:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC) reply

If this article can be brought up to Wikipedia standards, why was it put for deletion in the first place? It would be in the best interest of Bob A to withdraw his nomination. Wikipedia can't close its eyes to future knowledge forever. Give it enough time, and this might become a FA-class article someday. GVnayR ( talk) 03:04, 30 November 2009 (UTC) reply

I've never claimed to be male. Bob A ( talk) 06:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I'm sorry for that gender-specific statement, Bob A. I will be more careful in the future. GVnayR ( talk) 03:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete because article's author User:GVnayR is not knowledgeable and topic is not notable. Wikipedia is not a place for speculative fiction. Brian Everlasting ( talk) 02:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Comment - There happens to be 5150 Google hits on "nanotech age." And I happend to be knowledgable about history, and a little bit of science and technology. It's not like I slept my way through high school. GVnayR ( talk) 03:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fences& Windows 16:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. -- Fences& Windows 16:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete, this article just seems to be speculation about things that cannot be verified until they actually happen (or don't as the case may be). Mah favourite ( talk) 05:45, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  Comment - Future knowledge should never be shunned on Wikipedia. If we don't add some stuff about the near future (outside of fiction), we'll start losing our viewers to Future Wikia once the Singularity gets closer and more people start to be curious about things like nanotechnology and moon colonization. GVnayR ( talk) 15:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  Comment, future knowledge is fine but this seems more like future speculation. In my opinion Wikipedia should only mention future events when it can be shown that definite plans exist for specific projects (similar to the articles for upcoming films, albums etc). If a company has outlined plans for a future development in nanotechnology and this has been discussed by reliable third party sources then an article can be written. The content of this article seems to me like broad speculation presented as fact. Maybe there is a way that the article can be kept by changing the way that the speculation is presented and calling it something like Theories of a future nanotech age but I am really not sure. Also, articles should not be written to try and keep 'viewers' at the expense of the core principles of Wikipedia. There are lots people who are interested in reading essays, stories, speculation etc, this doesn't mean that Wikipedia should start including these things. It is an encyclopedia and if people are after something other than encyclopedic material then it is fine for them to get it elsewhere. Mah favourite ( talk) 19:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  If that's what it takes to keep this article on Wikipedia, then I change my vote to rename this article to Theories of a future nanotech age. GVnayR ( talk) 03:20, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn and sources provided. Fences& Windows 00:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Deep Blue Orchestra

Deep Blue Orchestra (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Notability ( WP:BAND). Google search fails to produce any non-trivial reliable sources and news search fails to produce any as well. The article has two third-party sources linked, but it's not exactly significant coverage. Ks0stm ^{( T• C• G)} 16:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. — J04n( talk page) 20:45, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep: Per [18], [19], [20], [21], and [22]. Joe Chill ( talk) 04:45, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

You are decidedly a better and/or more dedicated researcher than I am. It is clear now that this is notable...is there any way to withdraw an AfD nomination? Ks0stm ^{( T• C• G)} 17:58, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep per Joe Chill (I never thought I'd write that). The reliable sources found by Joe Chill clearly prove a National tour of Australia, thereby allowing the band to pass WP:BAND. Bearian ( talk) 19:47, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per Joe Chill's finds, notability is established from multiple independent sources and satisfies WP:BAND.  Gongshow  ^Talk 17:55, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per Joe Chill: all these sources are sufficient to satisfy WP:BAND#1 Victor Silveira ( talk) 19:32, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Dream Interpretations

Dream Interpretations (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Contested prod. Orginal prod comments: "Seems to be WP:Original Research, an essay published by the user. Specifically WP:Synth, and included e-mail address suggests this is an advertisement."

Prod was contested with no reason provided. Another editor has since removed the e-mail from the article, yet it still seems to be an implied advertisement per "These are only examples of interpretations which I have already given to some of my clients." in the text, although this is not blatant as it may be taken from another source, as there are references present.

On balance though, doesn't seem like the kind of topic an encyclopedia would cover even after clean-up to remove synthesis. Thoughts? Taelus ( talk) 15:26, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete, original research and an essay of personal musings: For thousands of years now, dreams still remain as an ancient mystery. In my attempt to answer my curiosity to find out if some dream experts have common interpretations to a specific dream, I went through different book stores and surfed into the internet to gather facts on the matter using related reviews. Then redirect to dream interpretation. - Smerdis of Tlön ( talk) 15:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - More-or-less an Essay consisting of Original research. Well, there are some references, but it's mostly OR. The topic may be deserving of an article, but not much is saveagable in its present form. Lord Spongefrog , (Talk to me, or I'll eat your liver!) 16:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per WP:NOR. POV essay on Dream interpretation written entirely in first person per WP:NOT#ESSAY. MuffledThud ( talk) 12:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete: An essay. Joe Chill ( talk) 15:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete per nom, no redirect required. Vulcan's Forge ( talk) 00:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete Sort of an interesting essay about one person's way of thinking and logical connections — I don't think I've ever dreamed of lice crawling on me — but an essay nonetheless. Mandsford ( talk) 20:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete This is an essay giving the author's point of view, it is not encyclopedic. Mah favourite ( talk) 05:49, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was merge to Alliance Rail. Despite the limited coverage, the consensus is to combine Great North Eastern Railway (Alliance Rail) and Great North Western Railway into a new article about the parent company, Alliance Rail. Go to it! Fences& Windows 15:01, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Great North Eastern Railway (Alliance Rail)

Great North Eastern Railway (Alliance Rail) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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• Now also Great North Western Railway, contested prod. Adambro ( talk) 16:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Contested prod. The reason from the proposed deletion was as follows:

There was a flurry of news articles in late September following a press release by Alliance Rail which suggested they had submitted proposals to the ORR but nothing else has emerged since nor have any details of applications appeared on the ORR website. I propose this is deleted until, or if, anything more concrete emerges such as an ORR application, particularly when the service is planned not start for four years and the reports of a dispute with Grand Central cast further doubt about the likelihood of this getting off the ground.

The prod tag was removed, without explanation by Fizzycreative ( talk · contribs), which at the current time is that user's only edit. A Google search for the username reveals a a graphic design company of that name. The website notes that the company has been working with the subject of this article to design a logo which suggests a conflict of interests. It also suggests work is continuing to develop the services described in the article but I would maintain that until evidence of an application to run the services appears on the ORR website, it is premature to have an article about this subject which could easily come to nothing.

There is also a sister company, Great North Western Railway, which I also proposed for deletion and hasn't yet been contested. If it is whilst this AfD is still ongoing then I'll add it to this discussion since exactly the same issues apply to both. Adambro ( talk) 15:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k ( talk) 15:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k ( talk) 15:29, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Comment Alliance Rail Holdings (Alliance) is a UK Company (Registered in England Number: 07026295) and has submitted plans to the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) to begin the operation of new rail services on a number of routes from 2013 through its subsidiaries Great North Eastern Railway Co. Ltd (GNER) and Great North Western Railway Co Ltd (GNWR).

The fact that information has not yet appeared on the ORR website is not something that Alliance can control, but the applications were submitted on 23 September 2009.

The person seeking to have the entry removed clearly has little understanding of the process and the timescales involved with these types of applications. For instance Grand Central (another rail open access operator) was established in 2000 but did not begin operations until late 2007. Similarly proposed services by Grand Union (now to be operated by Grand Central) for Bradford to Kings Cross were first listed in 2005, but services are not due to commence until May 2010.

Alliance has many supportive stakeholders, and the applications have also been favourably reviewed by Passenger Focus (see their news archive), and the fact that these applications take so long has also been clearly identified by Alliance’s own press release. Alliance also has an appointed point of contact within Network Rail.

Whether services actually become operational will ultimately be decided by the ORR, and as Alliance has stated, the process for determining such applications is unlikely to be concluded until late in 2010 or early in 2011.

There is also a large reference to Alliance’s proposals in the latest Rail Magazine, dated 2 December 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alliance rail ( talk • contribs) 16:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Merge both: into an article about Alliance Rail. Articles about unconfirmed proposed rail franchises are too much like WP:CRYSTAL in my books. However, there does seem to be reasonable coverage of the company itself. Should the consensus emerge that Alliance Rail isn't notable, my preference will be to Delete. Chris Neville-Smith ( talk) 17:10, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep: Here are some additional references which would tend to establish notability for the two operating companies as well as Alliance Rail: http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/Second-London-rail-link-on.5675562.jp http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/4653813.Former_Grand_Central_boss_Ian_Yeowart_in_company_rift/ http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/Rail-boss-faces-legal-threat.5685793.jp – Eastmain ( talk) 17:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  Comment: That falls within what I described as a flurry of news articles following the Alliance Rail press release. None of those articles make these proposals any more than simply that, proposals. The same flurry of news articles doesn't really demonstrate that Alliance Rail merits an article either in my view. My opinion is that a company needs to do something more than make a proposal to operate rail services for an article to be merited. Adambro ( talk) 17:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  Question: Could I ask what your opinions on a merge to Alliance Rail would be Eastmain? Adambro ( talk) 18:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete:
  1. The author may not be aware of it but there is a blatant Conflict of Interest WP:COI - see his/her User name - the contributor is the interested party.
  2. The article is promotional - an attempt to awake interest in a possible future commercial enterprise (press releases).
  3. Wiki is not a crystal ball - the function of an encyclopedia is to report current and/or historical fact, not offer journalism or speculation on future events. WP:CRYSTAL (see Alliance's own self-condemning comment above: process and the timescales involved ).
  -- Kudpung ( talk) 00:05, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Merge: OK, I see that having two pages is just on a 'flurry' from the interview, so I agree with Chris to merge the pages and have infomation on Alliance Rail and some infomation on the proposed GNWR and GNER services. Likelife ( talk) 10:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Merge. They will certainly be independently notable when/if they get approved but not now. They could change significantly in both name and scope by then and it is too early to have articles on them. We generally don't have articles on railways that are only in the proposal stage unless they have been discussed at length in parliament or subject to some other formal process. That said, they are notable enough as proposals to include briefly in the parent company's article as future projects. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 12:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep or Merge and redirect without prejudice to standalone articles if the proposals progress significantly. These proposals have received independent coverage that shows they are being taken seriously. In the context of open access train operators in the UK this is significant enough that there should be some coverage somewhere on Wikipedia. Thryduulf ( talk) 15:31, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Please could people also see WT:UKT#2 things. A related discussion there. Simply south ( talk) 21:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Merge both into a single article on Alliance Rail, and leave redirects. The fact that they have two separate subsidiaries is not enough justification for the separate articles. Also, the merged article should stick to the bare facts, and be monitored for conflict of interest issues. -- RFBailey ( talk) 23:54, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

More Magazine

More Magazine (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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No indication that this is notable in any way, no sources given. — Chowbok ☠ 15:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Weak delete. With a circulation of 100,000, it may have some notability in Pakistan. The article needs some sources showing it though. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 16:36, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Weak delete. Could find no sources that show magazine meets Wikipedia:Notability_(media)#Newspapers.2C_magazines_and_journals. -- NeilN ^{talk to me} 16:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus, default to keep. Obviously this was trending strongly toward a delete until the last couple of days, at which point a number of credible and valid keep votes came in and additional sources were provided. Were this to be relisted (which I considered doing given that new info came in late), it's likely this might have ended with an even stronger "keep" sentiment, but I don't think it's worthwhile to bother extending the discussion. It's worth pointing out that the only choice here in my view (after factoring in strength and validity of argument) was between closing as no consensus or "keep" outright, in part because some of the delete comments do not really provide a rationale, and in part because some obviously missed sources when searching for info about the article subject (a lack of familiarity with Australian politics no doubt also played a role).

The concerns mentioned by Robofish in terms of BLP are well taken, particularly as this is a figure of relatively marginal notability who has received some rather negative coverage. At this time we don't have consensus to delete this BLP article in particular or these types of BLPs in general, but the least everyone here can do in the interim is watchlist the article and try to keep it up to snuff going forward. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 06:34, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Andrew Landeryou

Andrew Landeryou (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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This article was prodded on Nov. 27 with the following rationale: "no credible assertion of notability, no sources supporting basic facts, possible BLP violations." On Dec. 2, User:Rotovia removed the prod with the message "see talk." However, no such discussion was posted on the talk page, then or later. The fact is that the prod was correct: this article makes no credible assertion of notability. He's a right-wing blogger, but those are a dime a dozen; no effort is made to show that he meets our inclusion guidelines for biographies or that his website meets WP:WEB. The majority of material in this article has no citations, and there have already been BLP concerns as well as serious conflicts between the article subject and Wikipedia administrators. This article is unmaintainable crap that we don't need. *** Crotalus *** 15:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Merge to David Gerard Wikimedia blog controversy (only joking), actually delete per nom, the lead "In recent years, he has attracted attention through his website "The Other Cheek: Andrew Landeryou's Blog of Freedom," and VEXNEWS which has been the subject of media comment.[citation needed]" rather says it all. If that's the best this can do.-- Scott Mac (Doc) 15:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - non notable from internet source check. Ottava Rima ( talk) 20:30, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete, seems like he's not notable, unless some reliable sources can be provided showing otherwise (can't find anything myself though). Mah favourite ( talk) 05:55, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete There has been no significant coverage in reliable secondary sources of this person, at best all you get is a passing mention. This article, if you can dignify it thus, is a complete mess and liable to being problematic. I can see no good policy based reason for keeping it. RMHED ( talk) 20:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete The blog, Vexnews, is perhaps notable - it is a popular blog that regularly breaks stories that are picked up by the mainstream media - but Landeryou himself is not notable. mkativerata ( talk) 00:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Wikipedia's article on Andrew Landeryou is a waste of disk space. -- NE2 02:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. -- Bduke (Discussion) 05:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Fails all criteria at WP:CREATIVE. WWGB ( talk) 06:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete, VEXNEWS is perhaps notable, but I'm not sure that Landeryou is, beyond the drama that he's caused here. Lankiveil ^{( speak to me)} 07:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC). reply
• Question As I asked on the talk page, is this and this about the same person? There is nothing in the article about that. There is a fair number of "Andrew+Landeryou" Gnews hits. -- Apoc2400 ( talk) 15:19, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
  • That is the same Andrew Landeryou. -- Mkativerata ( talk) 20:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - I'm not seeing sufficient evidence of coverage in independent reliable sources for an article on Mr. Landeryou or his blog. I'm not sure what the first comment on this AFD is referring to, but if there's a Wikimedia conflict of interest issue here, all the more reason to delete the article. Robofish ( talk) 18:05, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

  Looking through the history of this article, I'm amazed to see it existed as a very poorly sourced negative article since 2005. It was only last month that someone bothered to clean it up. For a WP:BLP, and especially one of marginal-to-no notability, this is really not good. Robofish ( talk) 19:06, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete, seems like he's not notable, unless some reliable sources can be provided showing otherwise (can't find anything myself though). Mah favourite ( talk) 05:55, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep, I've changed my opinion to keep, as a result of the sources produced by Fences and Windows he seems to satisfy WP:GNG. The article needs to be tidied up and these sources added but that is not a reason for deletion. Mah favourite ( talk) 16:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep. He's a long-time political figure who runs one of the more notable political websites in the country. There's a ton of mainstream media sources on the bloke dating back years - it might well deserve a rewrite, but he's pretty clearly notable. Rebecca ( talk) 11:17, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep, per Rebecca. An important figure in Australian student politics, a central player in the Optima scandal that brought down MUSU and among the most notable Australian political bloggers. It would of course need plenty of work. -- bainer ( talk) 13:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete Beyond some ructions in student and Labor faction politics, not notable (he needs to be the *subject* of independent reliable sources, not merely mentioned by them.) Vexnews is clearly not a reliable source, I'm surprised that is even being considered - its own editorial statement contradicts our RS guidelines. Orderinchaos 05:52, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep. He's notable for being a fugitive from Australia for a year, [23] [24] and also for his blog, for which he has been described as notorious. [25] Had an intervention order imposed on him recently due to his blogging: [26]. More on his blogging: [27] [28] He seems to only be known for negative things, but that doesn't make his bio a hit piece as it can all be sourced. He's most certainly a public figure. Fences& Windows 01:15, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Oh, another angry middle-aged blogger. Yawn. And his twittery is humdrum. But immediately above, Fences and Windows manages to show that this one's been in the news for more than one event. So I suppose that he qualifies. Unenthusiastic keep. -- Hoary ( talk) 15:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Comment, Oh my God, see what they call him when searching by "Andy Landeryou". Abductive ( reasoning) 05:14, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 11:51, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

WarP

WarP (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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No coverage by reliable third-party sources. Additionally scope of activities is not international or even national in scale thus failing WP:CLUB. The article is filled with unencyclopedic, non-verifiable, that when removed would leave absolutely nothing in the article.

(The sources in the article, btw, are not reliable, and winning interschool events does not satisfy notability guidelines) Aditya Ex Machina 14:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Actually, the sources are as reliable as most others, though it may not satisfy notability guidelines.-- Karmanyaaggarwal ( talk) 15:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

All the sources fall under WP:SELFPUBLISH (as they have absolutely no editorial oversight, alternatively you might want to read up on WP:RS). Additionally they're all trivial mentions, with no third-party coverage. Since I see you're new to Wikipedia, I've left a bunch of useful links on your talk page that you might want to check out. Aditya Ex Machina 15:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Delete per nom. Polarpanda ( talk) 18:47, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete: Fails WP:N. Joe Chill ( talk) 22:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 03:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Esperanza Miyake

Esperanza Miyake (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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She undoubtedly exists; she certainly wrote (co-wrote, actually) the book mentioned; and she gets a few hits on Scholar. Does this cross the bar for notability? I'd suggest it doesn't. Black Kite 14:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Delete. Little impact yet. Article was created too early. Xxanthippe ( talk) 21:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC). reply
• Delete. Early-career scholar with little impact yet, e.g. books written = 0, books co-edited = 1, h-index = 0 (WoS) and 2 (GS), no other notable academic achievement, title, accomplishment, etc. that shows up on Google – way short of anything in WP:PROF. Article history indicates this is a student-created fan page. Uncontroversial delete. Respectfully, Agricola44 ( talk) 16:28, 8 December 2009 (UTC). reply

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The result was speedily deleted. TN X Man 14:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Rakesh Siing

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No indications that this person ever actually existed. Fails WP:BIO. Perhaps falls under WP:HOAX as the person is claimed to be president of Dhaka which can refer to either a city or a district, but not a country, and therefore has never had a president. WikiDan61 ^ChatMe! _ReadMe!! 13:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Aside from the nom there is one editor arguing for deletion, while we have three expressing a keep sentiment (including Edkollin, who did not officially !vote), one merge, and one on the fence. There's no consensus for deletion, and the keep commenters all invoke specific sourcing provided during the AfD by Edkollin showing that the term "Second British Invasion" has had some purchase (at least in the 1980s in the U.S.) and thus might plausibly be a basis for a Wikipedia list article. Thus we end up with keep, though of course a merge remains an editorial option outside of the context of AfD, and is something that could be pursued on the talk page. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:17, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

List of Second British Invasion Artists

List of Second British Invasion Artists (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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List based entirely on one source. The second source makes no mention of "Second British Invasion". Basically just a list of British bands that popular in the early 80's. You could make similar list for practically any era of music. Ridernyc ( talk) 03:27, 26 November 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Comment: There is a section called "Second British Invasion" in British Invasion so if it's a valid section a list seems appropriate. If not, that section should be removed, or at least renamed. Polarpanda ( talk) 09:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC) reply

I am confused about

A. Why this list is being singled out for deletion when most lists, especially about lists music genres have no citations at all and seem to list every and any act that editors seem to think fits the particular genre.

B. Why lists exist and why there seems to be little or no standards that apply to them when compared with regular articles.

The second source was put in as a backup source for the first source. The first described the British Invasion groups that as acts that largely derived their American success from MTV. The second source listed acts that were successful in America due to MTV during the same time period but did not mention the words "British Invasion" specifically. The second source was clearly describing the same phenomenon as the first. To delete the article because the second source did not specifically say British Invasion is just as the cliché says not seeing the forest from the trees.

But the real problem and where you should be putting your cleanup efforts is trying to find out what the policy is for lists and establishing or reestablishing enforcement for those. Or maybe we should do without lists at all. I am sorry I went on and on but I am used to being criticized for trying to limit further damage to existing lists. This list was originally in the main article but moved out because me and other editors had to almost daily delete additions that did not meet the criteria for Second British Invasion as established in the article. This move seemed to help. Edkollin ( talk) 07:50, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

WP:LIST might help answer your questions. IMO lists are needed as a way to find articles. Polarpanda ( talk) 09:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC) reply

The policy says treat the list as a regular article but the reality (at least with popular music) is that they are an anything goes zone where Wikipedia standards don't apply. Another words the de facto consensus is for anarchy.

As for Second British Invasion since it was a phenomenon not really a genre a group will not be labeled a Second British Invasion act but a New Wave or Syhthpop or whatever genre they were. Articles about the Second British Invasion will list the top five or ten groups as examples of the phenomenon but will not give you a comprehensive lists of every Second British Invasion act of note. Edkollin ( talk) 00:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• Merge somewhere, please. I don't think that the term "second British invasion" ever really caught on, and for good reason. We did have an article called Second British Invasion, but it's been merged into British Invasion (which was about the wave of British rock groups that were popular in the mid-1960s). We have an equally indiscriminate List of New Wave bands and artists, and my feeling is that it would be better to attempt to make that one a better list by throwing in discriminating information about who was from the U.K., who from the U.S., and who from other nations. There's no denying that "British invasion" was a well-known term, but calling anything after that a "second British invasion" really Americocentric POV of the worst kind, isn't it? Is the point supposed to be that the history of new wave didn't begin until people in the United States started listening to it? If anything, it was more of a case of an "American invasion", with lots of U.S. groups following the path of a genre of music that was invented in the British Isles. Mandsford ( talk) 18:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC) reply

We go by reliable sources not what you think. There are articles and books chronicling that era by reliable sources that use the term. I would agree it is not as widely used as the original term but you do not need that type of mass recognition for it to be notable. We have articles on some fairly obscure genres.

Off Topic: Good luck with the New Wave List. I could not agree with you more about the New Wave List. That list was one I was referring to both in my questions above and my statement "de facto consensus is for anarchy". I have run in to wall after wall in even just trying to limit further damage. Edkollin ( talk) 08:05, 29 November 2009 (UTC) reply

It doesn't matter what I think. However, if you found only two "reliable sources" that suggest that "second British invasion" caught on, that might make a difference about what other people think. The idea of comparing Eurythmics to Herman's Hermits makes me laugh. Mandsford ( talk) 16:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC) reply

Discussion as to whether the the British Invasion article should be split belongs on that talk page. This is a discussion about deleting the The Second British Invasion List Article. There are two reliable sources in the British Invasion subsection that says the phenomenon existed. I'll move copy them to the list article. Edkollin ( talk) 04:37, 30 November 2009 (UTC) reply

Other Sourcing [29] [30] [31]. I believe that the additional sourcing I've shown here and added to the article plus the dozens of hits from reliable sources from back then and in this decade you will see if you go into Google News archives shows that this was a notable phenomenon. Edkollin ( talk) 17:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I agree with edkollin on this one (and believe me, this is rare enough to be duly noted) : most artists on this page already make part of other more inclusive and "documented" pages and for the few artists left that are not part of those pages, they'd better join them, in my opinion. Not without saying that this list of Second British Invasion bands looks rather random and poorly constructed in its present form because of the various musical genres represented by the artists chosen to sum up the invasion. Not that this Second British Invasion is not worth mentionning, of course, but maybe not worth having its own list created as it is. CouchJarvis ( talk) 01:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

The confusion I think stems from the Second British Invasion being a phenomenon not a genre. While most Second British Invasion acts were loosely New Wave not all of them were. Eddy Grant, Musical Youth was not New Wave but had US success in this period due to MTV airplay and were British thus satisfying the criteria. Edkollin ( talk) 19:49, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Which is why I think if the page is to be kept, it would be more interesting to have it organized by musical genres which would result in suppressing the "random impression" that this page about an existing phenomenon (thus deserving its page, like any other phenomenon) presently conveys. CouchJarvis ( talk) 21:01, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Delete - Not enough independent sources that make it notable Cynof Gavuf 11:12, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, I think Edkollin has found enough sources. Polarpanda ( talk) 12:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, There are sufficient sources.-- SabreBD ( talk) 12:48, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Wizardman 00:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

1 billion hungry campaign

1 billion hungry campaign (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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No reliable sources for this campaign. Article then appears to be about related stuff and not what the articles title states. Polargeo ( talk) 16:58, 12 November 2009 (UTC) reply

This also may be a recreation of an 1 billion hungry petition which was speedily deleted Polargeo ( talk) 17:03, 12 November 2009 (UTC) reply

Reliable sources have been added. The page is about a humanitarian campaign and in line with similar pages of other UN/humanitarian organizations. user:Lowpet —Preceding undated comment added 11:09, 13 November 2009 (UTC). reply

As this campaign is clearly identified as an FAO initiative 1billionhungry, 1billionhungry.org, not dated linked to the World Summit on Food Security 2009 why not move this article into the World Summit article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.45.195.128 ( talk) 18:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Seems like a merge to World Summit on Food Security 2009 is probably the best idea. Glass Cobra 23:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Delete as per nom. More about the FAO than topic. If there is anything worth keeping, move it to FAO. -- P 1 9 9 •  TALK 20:05, 1 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Delete per nom, though maybe paraphrasing it and putting it in the FAO article would be worthwhile. SMC ( talk) 11:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect to Tom Kuntz#Short Films. Consensus is to delete and redirect.  Sandstein  10:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Tokyo Breakfast

Tokyo Breakfast (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Non-notable internet satire. External links confirm it exists but that does not satisfy WP:N (first 100 Google hits fail to show independent coverage in reliable sources). I have PROD'ed it twice before and both times it was endorsed by other editors, then inexplicably removed. GSMR ( talk) 16:14, 16 November 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Merge and redirect back to section at Tom Kuntz/Short films. Kuntz and some of his later works have a notability. This one does not... unless an editor other than myself considers a few possible sources [32], [33], [34], [35], [36], [37], [38], and works to bring the article itself into line. Until then, all I can opine is a merge, as that places the information in the place readers might expect to find it. NOTE: Declaration of COI: I have twice worked with Kuntz. And though I am offering a hopefully neutral opinion here, I will never edit should refrain from editing his article nor and articles about his projects. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 04:31, 17 November 2009 (UTC) reply

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT ( talk) 12:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Comment No one wants to improve this per the possible sources? My having worked with Kuntz on other projects suggests improvements here be done by others. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 20:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC) reply

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• Delete and redirect to Tom Kuntz#Short Films. The sources provided by Michael Q Schmidt mostly aren't very reliable, and none give significant coverage. Michael, you can feel free to use the best of those sources to cite the material in Kuntz's bio about this short film. Fences& Windows 01:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy keep; this is a real geographic place ("populated place" in GNIS). Deletion nomination was motivated by an apparently erroneous GNIS search result. I'm glad that this AfD caused me to notice this article and clean it up. -- Orlady ( talk) 17:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Sharps Chapel

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Geo stub topic I tried to clean up. Original poster RVed. On further investigation I cannot find any GNIS [39] indication by the place name of the article title. Article tone is also problematic. Shadowjams ( talk) 12:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k ( talk) 16:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Speedy keep - This is a real place that simply didn't have an article yet. I can't imagine why GNIS didn't return a record for it, as it even is a USPS-recognized postal "city".
  I've replaced the strange little essay with a short article about the unincorporated community, and I've renamed the article to Sharps Chapel, Tennessee. -- Orlady ( talk) 17:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. JForget 21:39, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Malta–Slovakia relations

Malta–Slovakia relations (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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the last AfD seemed more like no consensus, note it was closed by an admin who is now banned from closing bilateral AfDs. in any case, these 2 countries do not have embassies, and almost all of the third party coverage is based on mulitlateral relations. [40]. simply being EU members does not guarantee automatic notability...I would like to see keep votes actually show evidence of significant third party coverage. LibStar ( talk) 12:10, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• I don't see why prime ministerial visits don't count as 3rd party coverage... they must have said something during the visits. Polarpanda ( talk) 13:47, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Slovakia-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k ( talk) 15:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep I've added several third party independent links (in English) describing bilateral relations in the shape of official visits and six bilateral agreements spelling out cooperation in the avoidance of double taxation, air services, health care, combating crime, visa abolition, and investment. Multilateral relations are also obviously a type of relations. Both are European countries in the Euro Zone and have close multilateral relations based on trade and illegal immigration agreements. Notability is established. -- Cdogsimmons ( talk) 04:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

This article should not have been renominated for deletion. There were links to 3rd party coverage that were found in the first discussion that were never added to the article but clearly helped in the keep result. This looks like a second bite at the apple after a result the nominator didn't like.-- Cdogsimmons ( talk) 04:55, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

any article can be nominated or renominated for deletion. the best way to save articles is to improve them with reliable sources. LibStar ( talk) 13:12, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Although, the Article Rescue Squadron has been somewhat successful in saving valuable material from deletion, they have not been as successful as I would have liked. Many of these relations articles, which could have been improved if anyone cared to do the work, have been needlessly deleted. That is in large part a result of cavalier attitude toward deletion. A more appropriate course of action would be to ask the creator to improve the article, to put out calls for help on the talk page or at the relevant national wikiproject, and then to attempt improvements by oneself. An Afd should be the last resort in a situation like this where articles with obvious potential merit are being put on the chopping block.-- Cdogsimmons ( talk) 14:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep as sources have been added and the article has been expanded. That is how AfD should ideally work, they should encourage editors to improve the article. Thanks for the good work Cdogsimmons. Pantherskin ( talk) 13:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete - an absurd premise for an article, of course. Look: two EU members are going to have some degree of interaction. They're going to sign scraps of paper on the ever-so-mundane themes of "cooperation in the avoidance of double taxation, air services, health care, combating crime, visa abolition, and investment". They're going to have "memoranda of understanding" "setting the framework within which authorities from the two countries" will go about their routine bureaucratic work. Their presidents (who, I might add, are figureheads) are going to shake hands with each other. They're going to say friendly words about the other party on rare occasions. They're going to have "excellent" relations, because what on earth else would we bloody expect for a small central European country and a pair of islands 850 miles away, on a continent that has abolished war and clings to pacifism as a sacred totem?
• Now that we've cleared that up, let's be mindful of what the problem is here: the lack of multiple sources actually covering "Malta–Slovakia relations" as such in any meaningful depth. Determined and foolhardy Wikipedians declaring such and such flotsam they may come by on Google to evidence "relations" does not an encyclopedic topic make. For that we need actual sources describing an actual phenomenon, not trivia we'd never notice outside this series of nonsense articles.

Does Wikipedia have a word for the opposite of a peacock term? When people talk about "trivia" and "scraps of paper" they are engaging in debate by using the opposite of a peacock term, anyone have a suggestion on what to call it as a retronym? What is the opposite of a peacock, what is an ugly bird? Should it be called "turkey talk" or "trash talk"?

• By the way: "41 years of lasting cooperation"? Putting aside the peacock language, is anyone as amused as I am by the assumption that it will always and forever be 41 years since 1968? Add, add your trivia in peace, but go ahead ignoring such glaring errors. - Biruitorul ^Talk 02:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply

One wikipedian's flotsam may be another's obsession. Please do not refer to other Wikipedians as foolhardy in the future (particularly when you are referring to me). It is insulting and violates our policy of WP:No personal attacks. I think you will find that the information in this article is also well sourced. -- Cdogsimmons ( talk) 04:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

[W]hat on earth else would we bloody expect for a small central European country and a pair of islands 850 miles away, on a continent that has abolished war and clings to pacifism as a sacred totem? Nothing is obvious, as Foreign relations of Slovakia#Liechtenstein will tell you. 96T ( talk) 15:22, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Keep, much coverage in secondary sources. Six bilateral agreements also constitute relevant bilateral relations in my book. Headlines such as "Malta and Slovakia to strengthen bilateral political and economic relations" and "Improving ties with Slovakia" indicates that Malta-Slovakia relations as a subject, and not just elements of their relations, is given independent coverage. 96T ( talk) 15:22, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep, there seems to be enough in the sources to demonstrate notability for this topic. There are actual sources about the links between the two countries in this case (this is not always the case for these relations articles). As per Biruitorul's point above, I have removed the 41 years line because Slovakia has not existed for this long anyway (the source isn't in English so I'm not sure in what way it mentions their 41 years of cooperation). Mah favourite ( talk) 06:30, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep It meets every standard of notability and for verifiability. -- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) ( talk) 08:22, 9 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Cirt ( talk) 03:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

OmniCode

OmniCode (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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At the previous deletion discussion in 2006, the main argument for keeping seemed to be that the nominator's Google test was flawed. Which, perhaps, it was. However, the evidence presented in that discussion appears to have been limited to Google and the User Friendly site. Our notability guidelines require significant coverage in reliable, independent sources, and this article contains no such references. I also can't find any such references myself, although that may be due to confusion with other things named "OMNICODE" or some variant. As such, since this appears to have no notability outside of the User Friendly community, I don't think Wikipedia is the place for this content. Powers ^T 12:05, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Delete - I can find no reliable sources writing about this. -- Whpq ( talk) 17:47, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Delete standards now are different from 2006 and this is unsourced silliness. Miami33139 ( talk) 07:29, 8 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) Tim Song ( talk) 01:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Tajikistan national under-17 football team

Tajikistan national under-17 football team (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Amateur football team, doesn't meet WP:SPORTS. Shadowjams ( talk) 12:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

WP:SPORTS is WikiProject Sports, not an inclusion guideline. And if you meant WP:ATHLETE, that only applies to individuals, not teams. Powers ^T 12:11, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

It doesn't meet WP:N in any case. Do you have an actual opinion? Shadowjams ( talk) 12:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I thought I'd start with questioning the basis for deletion; without a clear understanding of the grounds on which you were suggesting this be deleted, I couldn't very well agree or disagree with you. Powers ^T 13:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

Really? By its terms, it's outside of WP:ATHLETE which is the relevant guideline. I'm not of the opinion that WP:Athlete is so technically hamstrung that it might preclude looking at athletes that don't participate at a professional level. Shadowjams ( talk) 14:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

WP:ATHLETE only appears to cover individuals, not teams. There are countless teams for which the players are not notable, but the teams are. Powers ^T 17:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. ChrisTheDude ( talk) 15:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep: National representative team, playing at a level at which FIFA run globally reported tournaments. Players at this level are unlikely to be notable, but the team is. The existence of such articles is useful, almost essential, to prevent inappropriate info about such underage teams being reported on the main national team site, which should be reserved to data about the senior men's team. Kevin McE ( talk) 17:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep is an article for a national team at a recognised youth level, and team have previously played in World Youth Cup. Eldumpo ( talk) 10:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep as per above, notable national youth team. Giant Snowman 22:15, 6 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep. I'm at a complete loss to understand this nomination. Surely common sense tells us that a national representative team in the world's most popular sport is a suitable subject for an encyclopedia article? For the wikilawyers here a a few of the many sources available: [41] [42] [43]. Phil Bridger ( talk) 11:33, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - U-17 national team for football is notable, and WP:ATHLETE isn't the relevant guideline to reference in this case. -- Whpq ( talk) 17:49, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep - U-17 teams are notable and there are many examples currently on Wikipedia. GauchoDude ( talk) 18:28, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep representative youth national team who have qualified and played in an international FIFA tournament. -- Jimbo ^[online] 18:44, 10 December 2009 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy keep, non-admin close, withdrawn by nominator as article improved and only dissenting opinions offered ♪ daTheisen (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

The Latter Five Poets of the Southern Garden

The Latter Five Poets of the Southern Garden (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD)

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Sigh. My PROD was removed because it's a stub, for some reason thinking stubs are immune from deletion for any reason. I'll quote myself from the PROD: "As it stands, it is literally just a list. A list of 5 things, 2 of which don't even have articles." The 3 working links are also stubs with no sources. There is no "Basic Info" or explanation text as is required by WP:STUB ♪ daTheisen (talk) 10:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
Nominator note: Here's policy on lack of stub immunity for no sources, and they must have some actual explanatory information. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 10:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Procedural Keep - I removed the PROD, and I see that the AfD rationale has not improved. I don't think that "stubs are immune from deletion". Simply, the fact of being a stub only is not a proper rationale for deletion. If an article has problems that can be dealt with editing rather than deletion, it must not be deleted, per deletion policy. Since adding sources and creating articles are obviously problems that can be dealt with editing, the nom rationale is moot (What the nom links about stubs is a style guideline, not policy). -- Cyclopia ^talk 12:30, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I'm not preventing anyone from improving the thing. I basically ran into a wall of "huh?" as Chrajohn did. It's because there's no content or context. I see Note that if a small article has little properly sourced information, or if its subject has no inherent notability, it may be deleted or be merged into another relevant article in the guidelines, and realize this precisely follows that. How would you react to an article that read "Number turkey 4 2 6 73 1" with half red links, marked as a stub? That's what it looks like to me, albeit with larger words. A stub needs an explanation of topic, some shot at notability and some kind of resourcing. New stubs might be treated more loosely by NPP as a courtesy but even that's on an assumption if immediate improvement. Would suggest you remove that text about being open to deletion, since any stub gets by? Actually, does this have an article on zh.Wikipedia with any kind of (English) usable resource? If yes, I'll give good faith on notability to the sister project and look a lot different at it. ♪ daTheisen (talk) 15:05, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

I evidently still was not clear. The article is not a nonsense list, it clearly states that it is a list of Chinese poets and some of the links are blue and link to informative, even if short, articles. If it looks to you like a string of gibberish, I don't know, but you probably should read it better before considering it as such -it is not definitely as such. Given that there is some meaning in the article, it cannot be deleted simply because it is a very short stub. We do not delete article for problems which can be dealt with editing, simple as that. If you have other rationales to suggest deletion, fine, but the one you proposed is definitely not a valid one. And, yes, if you PROD an article and it gets deleted, you are obviously preventing anyone to improve it. -- Cyclopia ^talk 18:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Comment: Google Scholar returns a handful of hits and a general Google search returns a bunch more, but I can't evaluate any of them due to the language barrier. The term seems to have also been translated as "South Garden Five Gentlemen". -- Chris Johnson ( talk) 12:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Comment. I think you'll find that the "South Garden Five Gentlemen" was a name used for the Early Five Poets of the Southern Garden, active in the 14th centrury. Phil Bridger ( talk) 15:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. — Chris Johnson ( talk) 12:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep and flag for expert attention. The presence of some hits in Scholar and Books for the string of Chinese characters would appear to indicate that this group is not something that someone made up. A Ming Dynasty literary circle would appear to make a strong initial case to be something an encyclopedia ought to cover, even without a lot of English language data out there. Unless there's some indication this is a hoax, and I don't see that, I see no reason to delete stated here. - Smerdis of Tlön ( talk) 15:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep as per Smerdis. Obvious indications of notability and sources clearly exist. Edward321 ( talk) 02:18, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply
• Keep per the sources that I have added to the article. Phil Bridger ( talk) 15:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC) reply