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![]() | This article contains a translation of Андропов, Юрий Владимирович from ru.wikipedia. |
He was Christian?! Source? I find it very doubtful that not only a hardliner communist would be one, let alone the one running the KBG with his record — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.184.193 ( talk) 00:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
^ Probably meeant that he was BORN a Christian. ( 120.149.122.162 ( talk) 07:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC))
This could sound unbelievable:
....Both campaigns were carried out by a typically Soviet administrative approach and harshness vaguely reminiscent of Stalin's rule.
But this is from my personal, documented, experience.
The latter tale tells two things, isn't it? Mikkalai 19:48, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
"Andropov's legacy remains the subject of much debate within Russia and elsewhere, both amongst scholars and in the popular media. He remains the constant focus of television documentaries and popular non-fiction, particularly around important anniversaries" - although I recall him being parodied in the video for Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Two Tribes, his status in the UK - I can only speak for the UK - is one of total obscurity. Whereabouts is he 'the constant focus of television documentaries and popular non-fiction'? I'm not saying that he isn't, merely that this sentence needs expansion. A search of both Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.com reveals a flurry of books with 'Andropov' in the title from 1983-1984, but very little thereafter. - Ashley Pomeroy 13:58, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Some are claiming he was Jewish (eg this and this). Was he? Kwantus 05:43, 2005 Jan 17 (UTC)
Well, one was able to choose your ethnicity in the good old union. Seriously. If your parents were georgian and jewish for example, you could choose between georgian and jewish ethnicity on your passport. 88.73.2.54 ( talk) 08:56, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
-- Prove it with a source Peter S Strempel
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23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Andropov's mother is described here as "the daughter of a rich Jewish merchant." Why is the term "rich" invariably affixed to "Jewish merchant"? Aren't most merchants rich? This strikes me as a residually anti-semitic usage, even setting aside the slightly smarmy tone of the section in general. Jperrylsu ( talk) 03:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
-- Viva political correctness. Let me propose that the difference between starving in the streets and being sent to private school qualifies as 'rich'. --Peter S Strempel
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23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
One must say though, these "rules" are entirely man-made. It makes no sense, that some is a jew for life if the mother was jewish (even if the mother was only half jewish and her mother was half jewish), despite being a catholic, atheist or even an anti-semite, but NOT being a jew if only the father was jewish...
It's pretty stupid, arbitrarily and makes no sense. It's pretty interesting though, that secular regimes followed jewish law to determine whether some one was jewish or not...
I never understood why even many atheists and the like take these odd "rules" seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.2.54 ( talk) 08:52, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
-- Ho hum. What's the point? Who cares whether he had his foreskin involuntarily amputated? Does that really shed life on being a murderous bastard? I'd like to think that peopel who meet me don't assume my worth is summarised by Jewishness or not. -- Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
As many other articles concerning Socialism in general and the Soviet Union in particular this article is badly in need of a total revision ! I do not want to appear immodest but I think I have written quite a good German version of the Andropov article on Wikipedia. Contrary to the English version the German one (which admittedly is still a work in progress) really tries to be both factually correct, comprehensive and (more or less) truly objective, not containing the typical Wikipedia-style gossip, factual errors and above all anti-Soviet and anti-socialist prejudices. Since I do not have the time to do so by myself at present, perhaps somebody with a good faculty of the German language could try to translate the German article into English. Markus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.194.203 ( talk) 17:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
The Early life section says "Andropov was the son of a railway official and was probably born in Nagutskoye" this is disputed further down in the Controversy section.
Perhaps saying "Andropov's biography stated he was the son of a railway official" and adding a reference to the controversy section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.204.101 ( talk) 00:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
-- Perhaps? Aren't you sure about this? Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
To replace the Andropov photo that a 'bot deleted, I found a photo [1] on a Marxist website that claims that all of its content is "Creative Commons". So I presume that its OK for Wikipedia. (The only "problem" with the photo is that he's giving a quite friendly wave, for a KGB guy.) There may be some other photos too, I didn't spend time looking through their gallery [2] and photo album [3]. - Ryanjo 02:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
-- This is nonsense. Time is such a major concern that anything it does is fair use in its own right. I am not an attorney in Florida, but I'm fairly sure that I could argue the case in any courtroom (even dressed in one of those cheesy seersucker suits). -- Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Need clarity and completion regarding his first wife. It tells her name, where she was from, and that she had cancer in 1983. Nothing at all about when the marriage ended (or began). Then, nothing regarding the dates of his second marriage, only that they met during WWII. It doesn't even give the second wife's name in this section. Very poorly done. Venqax ( talk) 18:11, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Andropov's kidneys stopped working in January 1983 but he didn't die directly because of kidneys failure because as i said they totally stopped working in january 1983. His health also harmed by long-term complications of diabetes. According to the Soviet medical report Andropov suffered from several medical conditions: interstitial nephritis, nephrosclerosis, residual hypertension and diabetes, which were worsened by chronic kidney deficiency".
Superzohar
Talk 16:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC) -- Cite your sources Peter S Strempel
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23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
It seems that parts of the paragraph on his funeral were copied over from the article on
Leonid Brezhnev.
Compare the additions to Andropov's funeral on 12th July 2007, 11:23
[4]
His state funeral was one of the biggest the world ever knew. A four-day period of nationwide mourning was announced. His body was lying in state in an open coffin in House of Trade Unions in Moscow. Inside the hall, mourners shuffled up a marble staircase beneath chandeliers draped in black gauze. On the stage at the left side of the hall, amid a veritable garden of flowers, a complete symphony orchestra in black tailcoats played classical music. Andropov's embalmed body, dressed in a black suit, white shirt and black-and-red tie, laid in an open coffin banked with carnations, red roses and tulips, faced the long queue of mourners. At the right side of the hall, in the front row of seats reserved for the dead leader's family, his wife Tatyana Filipovna with her reddish- tinted hair held in place with a hairclip, sat alongside with her their two children, Igor and Irina.
and to Brezhnev's funeral on 23th June 2007, 13:56 [5]
He was honoured with one of the largest and impressive funerals in the world. His body was placed in an open coffin in House of Trade Unions in moscow. Inside the hall, mourners shuffled up a marble staircase beneath chandeliers draped in black gauze. On the stage, amid a veritable garden of flowers, a complete symphony orchestra in black tailcoats played classical music. Brezhnev's embalmed body, dressed in a black suit, white shirt and black-and-red tie, faced the long queue of mourners.
and on 12th July 2007, 13:45 [6]
At the right side of the hall, in the front row of seats reserved for the dead leader's family, his wife Viktoria, sat alongside with her their two children, Galina and Yuri.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.246.7.154 ( talk) 17:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
-- Nothing like being able to re-write history from yoou own coffin, innit? Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, 2 of the paragraphs are exactly the same as Brezhnev's. In addition, it reads like something out of a press magazine. For both reasons I just removed them. 213.114.83.242 on August 9th, 07:40 CET. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.83.242 ( talk) 05:41, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
These paragraphs are back. they should be at least rewritten so that they are not a carbon copy of the Brezhnev funeral description. Schmoozy 17:42, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
There are very few clickable references. Some of them seem to be out of date. dima 02:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)-- No shit!Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Is it true that Andropov's family's original surname was "Lieberman," as some websites state? Badagnani 05:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
A very interesting addition. I think it needs to be sourced though. Where is it from? Natebjones 15:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
-- No need for that here, innit? Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I think this article does not describe real deeds of Andropov. One important aspect is his involvement in organization of international terrorism worldwide [www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1398086/posts]. Another is his role in Hungarian events [7]. Work of fifth KGB directorate also was not described. Biophys 01:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Stop deleting the controversy section. It's an interesting detail about where he came from. I'm half Jewish (by the mother) so dont blame me in speculation! Ethnicity is an interesting fact that's worth being mentioned. Many people before you edited this controversy on his origin section. Your not to decide what will or will not be in the article. My sources are reliable. Just write Andropov Jew or Андропов еврей in google and you'll get more. M.V.E.i. 15:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
No, it is your responsibility to provide reliable sources. So far you provided NO souces that support your claim.
Your first/third source say:
Есть и другая версия. Будто бы мать Андропова в младенчестве подкинули к дверям дома купца Карла Файнштейна. Он вырастил девочку и удочерил ее, дав свою фамилию и отчество. Так ипоявилась Евгения Карловна Файнштейн. Впрочем, версия кажется слишком романной.
«Еврейский тип лица был у Андропова, – писал литературовед Вадим Кожинов. – В 1993 году я беседовал с бывшим заместителем председателя КГБ Ф. Д. Бобковым, и он сообщил мне, что, как в конце концов выяснилось, мать Андропова родилась в еврейской семье».
Но еврейское происхождение, если оно и было...
This source describes such claims as a "version" that is doubtful.
Your second source says:
1. АНДРОПОВ (в некоторых источниках указывается - ЛИБЕРМАН) Владимир (┼1919, от тифа). Жена - ФАЙНШТЕЙН Евгения Карловна (┼1927 в Моздоке), дочь богатого еврейского купца (или, в некоторых публикациях, удочеренная им).
Id does NOT say: "Andropov is a Jew".
Your fourth source says:
Меж тем документальных подтверждений всего этого нет.
Translation: "there are no any proofs of that". Biophys 16:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
There are 3 references for the controversies paragraph. I cannot open the first one (
[8]). Is it my personal problem or has it disappeared? ``That pesky line-through makes it kinda hard to read. Innit. Peter S Strempel
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23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
The second one says:
“ | 1. АНДРОПОВ (в некоторых источниках указывается - ЛИБЕРМАН) Владимир (†1919, от тифа). | ” |
Note the words "in some sources".
The third one is to the book review in RussianSeattle journal. Could someone point out the place where it's written with certainty that he was a Jew?
While there's really a controversy over this matter the article now presents information so as if it were 100% truth. Alæxis ¿question? 18:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
`` Forget it. Unless one of the WikiGestapo with godlike powers comes across this article, actually knows something of it, and actually cares, you might as well call Andropov a Martian and no one would care. Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
See Webster's for the meaning of ' nationality' in English. The most common meaning is:
“ | 3 a: national status; specifically : a legal relationship involving allegiance on the part of an individual and usually protection on the part of the state | ” |
It's not the same as 'национальность' in Russian (it almost always means 'ethnicity').
That's why Jew isn't a nationality - for the citizens of Israel we'd use the term Israeli (and it is a nationality) and for other people of Jewish descent it's rather an ethnic/religious group. Alæxis ¿question? 08:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I can't keep up with the colons. Making sources fit with ideology is exactly what ideology is all about, including the current ideology infecting Western academies. But worse than having to quote some other idiot is having to apologise for facts that just don't sit too nicely with bourgeois sentiment. Like mass murder. Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
“ | 3. a. National origin or identity; (Law) the status of being a citizen or subject of a particular state; the legal relationship between a citizen and his or her state, usually involving obligations of support and protection; a particular national identity. | ” |
“ | 3. b. A group of persons belonging to a particular nation; a nation; an ethnic or racial group.
1832 J. HALL Legends of West 184 So the gentlemen in question, after some sharp repartees, and after their respective nationalities had bumped and jostled awhile, settled down into amicable travelling companions. 1832 Examiner 488/1 It leaves the various existing nationalities of Germany unimpaired. 1856 G. W. DASENT Jest & Earnest (1873) I. 311 Welded by time and trouble into a distinct nationality. 1864 G. W. DASENT Jest & Earnest (1873) I. 140 Curious it was to see how nationalities herded together over their food. 1874 W. STUBBS Constit. Hist. I. iv. 59 The Saxons in Germany were still a pure nationality. 1952 S. SELVON Brighter Sun v. 88 Whenever he saw a couple of different nationalities he used to hail out to them, and tell Stella that that was the way to live, especially in Trinidad. 1964 J. GOULD & W. L. KOLB Dict. Social Sci. 244/1 In the Soviet Union, nationalities is more frequently applied to the diverse national-ethnic units who make up the membership of the Union. 1984 B. L. VIGOD Jews in Canada 10 Many..came to doubt whether classic Marxism would respect Jews as a nationality. |
” |
-- Work permit 19:39, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
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Information should not be subject to superstition or sentiment. If you don't like an image say why and leave it be. It would help, too, if you could use English. Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
His original family name was Liberman-Faynstein and his father was a Jewish bourgeois. It is not anti-Semitic to mention this; quite the opposite: Andropov had to reinvent his identity as an Ossetian proletarian precisely to avoid the bigotry of the Soviet nomenclature against bourgeois Jews, who were seen as holding the reins of arch-capitalism. Suppressing the truth of Andoprov's identity does more harm than good to all parties. The comments here about how this is not worth mentioning because "Jew" is not a nationality are without foundation, because Jews were indeed one of the recognized nationalities in the Communist Soviet Union, and were so identified on their identity papers. This was one of the cynical justifications Stalin gave for establishing a "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" in the Far East, when in fact it was an excuse to deport them en-masse Siberia. J.D. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 ( talk) 20:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
There's a story that I was a petty aristocrat in Koenigsberg before I was ever conceived. Nothin' to say it weren't so. Nuttin' to say it was. But does it belong here? Peter S Strempel Page | Talk 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't believe the inclusion of the purported plot to launch a first strike on Pearl Harbor to instigate a nuclear war between Red China and the USA, should be included in the section concerning his term as KGB director.
this was proposed by
Kenneth Sewell, Clint Richmond. Red Star Rogue: The Untold Story of a Soviet Submarine's Nuclear Strike Attempt on the U.S., September 26, 2006, Pocket Star, 480. ISBN 1416527338
I doubt this is a corroborated event and this rather sounds like musings from a conspiracy theorist and not worthy to be mentioned in his biography.
Aerie124 ( talk) 00:53, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. I take it that A didn't get to it, otherwise I'd be ash along with the rest of the world. Conspiracy? Well, wasn't that what the KGB, CIA, MI6, etc, traded in? Mention the wretched thing, but make sure the sources are good. -- Peter S Strempel
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23:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
There was a template at the top of the article about the content's accuracy being disputed. The template was removed earlier today without a reason, and without discussion. I figured that it shouldn't have been removed without a discussion about it first, so I went ahead and reverted the edit. The template was then removed again, with the given reason "No explanation is given for the template". I then figured that it should be discussed if the template needs to be there or not, to avoid problems. My opinion is that the template should be there until more references are put in the article to verify the contents. Opinions are open to discussion. Thanks. -- Lord Gorbachev ( talk) 08:30, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
This article needs additional citations for
verification. |
This article needs additional citations for
verification. |
The article says that Andropov insisted on the invasion of Afghanistan, but if you check the reference (The Protocol of the meeting of Politburo of Communist Party from 17 March 1979) it turns out he was against it. Timosha2 ( talk) 17:42, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Now it says he opposed the invasion. But now it also includes the strange statement:
″Andropov opposed the decision to intervene militarily in Afghanistan on 24 December 1979.[26] Among his concerns was that the international community would blame the USSR for this action.[27]"
Other countries might blame the USSR for the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan? Well...yeah. Who else would be blameworthy? Venqax ( talk) 18:17, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
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Someone should convert the photo [10] to grayscale to get rid of the blue cast. Kendall-K1 ( talk) 23:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
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An interesting thing about Andropov is that everyone, both Russian and non-Russian, faces a historiographic challenge in verifying which things were true about him and which ones were things that he and his Chekist colleagues encouraged the world to think were true about him. We have this on very good, Soviet-native authority, via Solovyov & Klepikova 1983 and Volkogonov 1998, among others. Solovyov & Klepikova clearly respected Medvedev's biography (Medvedev 1983) and yet also fairly pointed out that much of its information came from inside the Union and only passed outside the Kremlin in a form that the Chekists allowed to pass. An example of "true versus encouraged to believe" is that the idea that he was against intervention in Afghanistan is considered "widely known" but seems in retrospect to be something that everyone has been encouraged to believe, whereas in fact he was one of three or four Politburo members who expressed written support for the intervention during at least some phase of the time when it was being contemplated. Notwithstanding the reference cited in the article which claims to be a Politburo meeting transcript, in which Andropov is shown arguing against the intervention, there seems to be some possible revision of the full record going on. One wonders about KGB doctoring of the record in the late 1980s after the intervention had turned out to be a bad idea. The idea that he was the "liberal Chekist" is another item widely believed but not well supported by the evidence. In both of the first-mentioned books he is clearly presented as in fact thoroughly Chekist, and although it would break some Soviet hearts to hear it, Solovyov & Klepikova show how he presided over a de facto Russian empire rather than a true fraternal socialist union. Thoroughly Chekist despite not wearing a leather coat with a Mauser at his belt, as Volkogonov said. And yet more appealing than Brezhnev because at least he understood that the economy needed substantial restructuring, even if, as Volkogonov says, he was not equipped to successfully achieve it, being too much a Leninist to do anything but double down on Leninism. In future I plan to add this aspect of his identity, this historiographic challenge, to the article, citing those sources. Karmanatory ( talk) 02:38, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Where is this coming from? Stalin was the first general secretary. Then between Stalin and Brezhnev the post didn't exist. Then Brezhnev was the second general secretary. And Andropov was immediately after him. Therefore, Andropov was the third general secretary, and not the fourth! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bv36 ( talk • contribs) 15:53, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
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While I agree with underlying substance, starting with "Thus there was a certain inevitable amount..." seems to veer into general commentary inappropriate for a Wiki article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8001:6A44:B892:4133:F289:F7E:CC82 ( talk) 01:12, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
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