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Requested move 2
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
– (Relisted.) It seems to me that the
patronymic is ill-suited as a disambiguator, and should not be used as such until really needed. People are much less likely to know a notable person's patronymic than what he/she indeed is notable for, when the name is searched for, or when the name is appearing in a list (e.g. a category such as "xxxx births").
HandsomeFella (
talk)
19:18, 7 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Support. Excellent idea. I hate disambiguating Russian people when patronymics are used. People are far more likely to know that a person is a skier/footballer/politician/etc than what their patronymic is.
Jenks24 (
talk)
03:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Support. I tend to agree that "the
patronymic is ill-suited as a disambiguator, and should not be used as such until really needed. People are much less likely to know a notable person's patronymic than what he/she indeed is notable for..." I think this has come up in similar move discussions before but I can't remember where.
WP:NCRUS doesn't address it either. It's something warranting a discussion so I'll post a note at
WT:WikiProject Russia and
WT:Disambiguation. —
AjaxSmack03:22, 10 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment: I've heard – but I'm far from certain – that the patronymic is used only on formal occasions or when you know a person well. In other words, you don't speak of
Putin as Vladimir Vladimirovich, unless you – and those present – know him fairly well. I think this (if true) further discourages the use of patronymics in wikipedia.
HandsomeFella (
talk)
11:01, 10 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Traditionally, it's the proper way to address someone that you don't know well. But in modern use, especially in English sources, it's often not used. --
Born2cycle (
talk)
19:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Without getting into evolution and varieties of conjugation, its use is primarily in polite (formal) conversation, where using the first name only is considered intimate, while not knowing someone's patronymic is a potential source of embarrassment (so, address and refer to others by given and patronymic). At least in the not too old days. As for use of the full name including patronymic, that's mainly in deference in the third person. (Patronymics were once reserved for the nobility and higher classes.)
PЄTЄRS J V ►
TALK05:15, 11 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Support: a bracketed disambiguator will be much more useful for a reader trying to find the person they are looking for in a category or other list.
PamD07:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Support. Support in general. Obvious exception is whenever someone is commonly referenced with the patronymic in reliable English sources. --
Born2cycle (
talk)
19:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC)reply
Support. Even though I think it was me who moved some of these to a patronymic form, that was quite some years ago. The fact that the search box now offers suggestions as one types the search string in makes disambiguation by occupation more helpful to readers than disambiguation by patronymic.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); October 13, 2011; 16:18 (UTC)
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