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Could we elaborate on the nature of her mental illness? I'd like to know more, and I haven't seen it covered in too much detail.
That would be because no detail has yet emerged, not least because of the reticentness of the Howard Government and the negligence of the Department of Immigration. One hopes a
Royal Commission will eventually be established to shed light on this most tragic of wrongdoings.--
Cyberjunkie15:06, 15 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Also remember that she is a human being, and thus entitled to rights such as privacy, particularly where medical conditions are concerned. I added a statistic to the story, this point should not be so heavily emphasised in the media, as one in five people in Australia have been diagnosed with a mental condition. -
Shevek14:51, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Once again, how the deportation was carried out is yet to be revealed. Certainly, if this is the result of the proceedure, one wonders if it could be called 'legal' or 'due process'.--
Cyberjunkie07:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)reply
I propose a rollback of edits made by
User:Shevek.
my reasons :
"when she was suddenly and mysteriously deported. Australian relatives including her infant son, did not know of her 2001 deportation until 2005, and she had been listed as a missing person."
DIMIA do not accept the phrase 'wrongful deportation' so that is NPOV already. I was trying to correct that by describing what happened. It is not sensational - what words do you use to describe what happened to her? Was it not sudden? Was it not mysterious? Which of these two adjectives do you think is a sensation? I shall use it to launch a brand of laundry powder.
I can tell you it was both, please compare the case with any other cases you can find out about by trawling the net, her deportation was sudden in comparison with many illegal immigrants. Look at Cornelia Rau who was locked up here for 10 months. Alvarez I have heard was deported in three days flat. And the fact that even her immediate family were not alerted, and nobody outside of DIMIA knew what had happened for 4 years, is mysterious. I assert that the original state of the article, and your rollback is POV. Please do not re-POV the article. -
Shevek15:06, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
there are also problems with facts. Vivian did not have an infant son when she was deported / when she went missing --
Iambuttons11:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
i'm more curious about whether or not you read the rest of the article (or kept up with the news) since you seem quite determined about the three day deportation scenario
i think the first paragraph (before Shevek's edits) actually states the reason why Vivian Solon is special => " In May 2005, it was discovered that she was wrongfully deported as an illegal immigrant in July 2001."
No, she is more special than that. DIMIA sat on the information for two whole years after they found out. Her immediate family in Australia did not know she had been deported. Nobody knew. They told no-one. -
Shevek15:20, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
This is the orgininal paragraph before
User:Shevek's edits.
Vivian Solon, also Vivian Alvarez and sometimes Vivian Young, is a migrant
Australiancitizen who had been living in Australia for at least 18 years. She migrated to Australia in the
1980s via spousal
visa after marrying an
Australian with whom she had one child and subsequently separated. A later relationship resulted in another child. According to her family, she has a history of mental illness that
immigration officers were unaware of when they encountered her. In May
2005, it was discovered that she was wrongfully deported as an illegal immigrant in July
2001.
I've put it here as an archive.
If there isn't any strong dissent against rolling it back over the weekend, I'll bring the paragraph back when i update the page with new information on Monday.
--
Iambuttons11:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
I do agree with you, I believe that the new edits are non-NPOV. Rollback. I've also added a NPOV dispute tag. -
Aaron Hill 12:11, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
I reverted the article before I viewed this discussion, but I may as well record my agreement. They were POV additions in the main, but also inappropriate for the introductory paragraph.--
Cyberjunkie12:14, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
No, they explain what the whole article is about so the reader knows why they are reading about 18 year resident so-and-so with-a-family-who-is-very-nice, which is how the original read. -
Shevek15:06, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
a couble of points :
* use of the term infant
when i made that comment about her son not being an
infant, i was using the layman's understanding of the term infant - which by anyone's defination, is a child at the early stage of development. unless a legally trained individual is reading the article, one wouldn't be assuming from reading the amendment that a minor was involved.
* use of the term sudden
there was nothing sudden about the deportation. its quite obvious that
Shevek made the amendments based on
Shevek's assumptions of what the case is all about. if one reads all the relevant referenced articles, one will discover that there was at least three months between when Vivian was picked up by DIMIA, and when she arrived in Manila.
* use of the term mysterious
while it is a mystery to the public what exactly happened, and the facts are slowly being unfolded, i think its a stretch to use mysterious to describe what happened in this case. From the facts that have been uncovered so far, it is quite clear that there was deliberate intent from DIMIA for the deportation to take place. There are a couple more updates i haven't done to the article with reference to newspaper articles and radio interviews that reflect the facts.
* use of the term wrongfully deported
Solon was an Australian. She possessed an Australian passport. The Prime Minister has offered a qualified apology on two occassions. While the lawyers would rub their hands with glee as their pockets get filled for spending time in the courts trying to determine whether or not the deportation was wrongful, the facts demonstrate quite clearly that her deportation was a mistake. So I don't see why describing her plight as wrongfully deported is any further from the truth.
* DIMIA sitting on information
while I concur that DIMIA not revealing that they had the knowledge is an interesting information to share, the key point about Vivian is that as an Australian with an Australian passport, she was deported by the Australian authorities. I do not personally believe that DIMIA not sharing information with the family carries more weight than any of the other aspects of this case. I would even argue that the fact that so many levels of government were involved (even international agencies) yet Solon was still deported is a more interesting than just DIMIA sitting on information
This article has been tagged as POV. I suspect that this tag largely referred to the introductory paragraph, which has since been rectified. I am reluctant to remove the tag, however, as there may well be other points of contention with the article. Please identify them here, so that they may be fixed.--
Cyberjunkie15:05, 20 May 2005 (UTC)reply
The opening paragraph continues to be edited and reverted. Below is a suggestion for the wording of the opening paragraph - perhaps people can discuss it here rather than continually changing the article.
Vivian Solon, also known as Vivian Alvarez and Vivian Young, is an
Australiancitizen who was reported by the media in Australia to be wrongfully
deported to the
Philippines by the
Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs (DIMIA) in July
2001. In May
2005, it became public knowledge that she had been deported, although DIMIA knew of their mistake in
2003. Solon's family had listed her as a
missing person in early 2001, and until May 2005, did not know that she had been deported. The circumstances surrounding Solon's wrongful deportation have caused much controversy in the
Australian media.
Solon migrated from the Phillipines to Australia in the
1980s on a spousal
visa after marrying an Australian man, with whom she had one child. A later relationship resulted in another child. According to her family, Solon had a history of
mental illness that DIMIA officials were unaware of when they encountered her.
(Yes I know that this is two paragraphs!) I believe that this wording puts the focus on her deportation first and foremost, but doesn't stray into POV. I'm open to suggestions on the last sentence of the first paragraph however, it's a little
weaselly as it stands. --
bainer01:10, 21 May 2005 (UTC)reply
I think that proposed introduction is a valuable enhancement. I support the article being revised to incorporate it. Over time, as the article becomes more complete, the introduction will open to further enhancements.--
Cyberjunkie08:11, 21 May 2005 (UTC)reply
I like the new paragraph. Just to avoid the argument of the legality of the use of the term wrongfully deported, i've suggested that we insert the phrase reported by the media in Australia to be to more accurately reflect the spirit of the case. --
Iambuttons01:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Given that the deportation is self-evidently "wrongful", I doubt any further qualification is required.
Shevek's claim that DIMIA do not "accept" the case being described as "wrongful" is weak and unsubstantiated. I have not come across any sources in which DIMIA reject "wrongful" and I'm sure that an examination of Lateline transcripts would show Minister Vanstone herself using the word. --
Cyberjunkie04:31, 23 May 2005 (UTC)reply
TONY JONES: But you would agree in this case something has gone awfully, terribly, tragically wrong?
AMANDA VANSTONE: Clearly.
TONY JONES: Criminally wrong?
AMANDA VANSTONE: I don't think it's helpful to speculate without knowing the facts...
I don't think it's too much of a problem using the word wrong. I don't believe the wording as it stands implies anything criminal. --
bainer05:24, 23 May 2005 (UTC)reply
Needs updating
I'm not particularly well-informed on the latest developments however I do know as much as that a financial compensation deal with the govt has been agreed to. A few areas need updating.
Timeshift11:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)reply
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