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Truvor and Sineus or Tiura and Simo
One point which has been always with little notice is why Rurik (Rurikka) sent his, presumably
younger brothers to "rule" peoples at Isborska / Issa and Belojeozero / Valgetjärv. Maybe because they understood or had some knowledge of the language which was spoken in both places Vatja or Setu and Vepsä (Veps). All are Finno Baltic languages.
Wikipedians tend to be more liberal with what appears on talkpages, than this anonymous Finnish IP does.--
Berig20:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Sorry, I did not realize that English Wikipedia is a bulletin board for chauvinistic nonsense, something that the Finnish Wikipedia is not.--
217.112.249.15620:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)reply
"Truvor established his realm in the vicinity of Smolensk."
No, no, no. Smolensk rather than Pskov. Truvor established himself at Izborsk (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izborsk).
And this entry are foolish, because Smolensk, Pskov and Izborsk had independenced kingdoms.
I will be correcting this entry, exactly for "Truvor established his realm in the vicinity of Smolensk." on "Truvor established himself at Izborsk."
Dixi —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
213.79.82.181 (
talk)
22:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)reply
Move proposal
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
"Current scholarly"
Section Description second para boldly claims:
The current scholarly[by whom?] is that "Rurik, Sineus, en Truvor" should be read "Rurik, sine hus, en tro(gna) vär(ingar)" (Rurik, his house/relatives, and true companions).
Sounds like interpreted by someone who don't know the Scandinavian languages very well. There is no way that vär(ingar) could be shortened to vär. Vérr (< Pn. *viraz) on the other hand means "man", related to were in werewolf (= "man wolf"). Hús is neutrum and if in singular the reflexive pronoun sin, should be in the neuter form sit. It doesn't signify "relatives" but maybe "clan", for which plural is an odd occurrence but maybe possible if he had many clans at his back. For the literal interpretation "house" a plural might be possible, but the sum of all property would more naturally be termed oðal in singular.
I think some specific academic source (Dr. etc.) is needed for this far-fetched interpretation, it doesn't feel natural for someone who speaks Swedish and know something about the history of the language.
Rursus dixit. (
mbork3!)
13:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Secondly: it appears to me that the weird interpretation made in this article is not supported by the Soviet Encyclopedia who provides no detailed interpretation on the original phrase leading to "Rurik, sine hus, en tro(gna) vär(ingar)", so that this article
unduly synthesizes and
originally researches on the topic in a policy violating way. I'll add a synth-inline.
Rursus dixit. (
mbork3!)
13:21, 19 August 2012 (UTC)reply
This is your personal opinion which has zero weight in Wikipedia. Whereas I am willing to leave the tag of original synthesis, the tag of not having material in the source is clearly improper since the material is in the source. --
Ymblanter (
talk)
13:30, 19 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Ah, oh, preposterous and offensive. My voice accounts to 1, not 0, so consensus with me is required. My opinion counts for something and is quite sufficient when I put on question a statement and require an attribution. I don't make personal claims by require extra verification, I put a statement under question and giving some reflections should be enough to motivate the tagging. You cannot remove the [by whom] tag without consulting me, because you need the consensus, and especially you cannot remove the tag without providing attributions. You should reconsider your tone, which I find offensive and derogative. Secondly, the provably false statement that the Great Soviet Encyclopedia supports the explicit interpretation:
"Rurik, sine hus, en tro(gna) vär(ingar)" is the current scholarly interpretation
cannot be taken as a reason for removing a need for attribution. The sentence in this article claims something else than the provided source, so the citation of the Great Soviet Encyclopedia fails to support the statement in the article.
Rursus dixit. (
mbork3!)
13:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Accepted. Could we then perhaps substitute "current scholarly interpretation" for the opinion of Кацва and Юргано (perhaps Katsva and Yefganov Yurganoff?) and others? Then the attribution would fulfill the general guide lines that encourages
attribution.
Rursus dixit. (
mbork3!)
14:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)reply