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Is the NATO reporting name necessary in lead sentence? The reason given for adding the NATO reporting name,
[1]"NATO names are, frankly, much better known" is incorrect, it may be better known in NATO countries, but there are countries outside NATO. The name can be mentioned later, but it is pro-NATO bias to mention it in lead. It is not Natopedia. Otolemur crassicaudatus (
talk)
14:05, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
I believe the NATO class designation is ok. Outside the CIS it is more readily recognised than (or at least as readily as) the actual class name in Russian.
Sv1xv (
talk)
14:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
I agree with olyeller21, it is needed but it seems wrong to have it in an infobox just as any other piece of information. Its not like "population", this is 20 lives lost and 21+ in danger of being seriously affected.
Wikisaver62 (
talk)
17:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Making the change. I'm
being bold deleting the infobox as the info in it is in the body of the article. It's redundant to have it listed twice.
The infobox deletion was reverted because the infobox was meant to summarize text in the section. While I do agree that infoboxes summarize a body's information I believe that the section it is summarizing is too short to warrant a summarization especially since it has its own article. I will honor that editors wishes but continue with the deletion of the casualties and injuries as discussed and agreed upon here.
OlYellerTalktome08:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)reply
From the Wiki page for Freon " It is one of a class of chemicals called Haloalkanes". I will guess then mean Halon. Halon is also a firefighting agent, and a CFC, which based on its being a CFC is being phased out in the US Navy. Halon dis not displace oxygen; and potentiaolly safe to enter a space where halon had been discharged. Halon, however would break down from high heating, and one by-product was a toxic gas, maybe a nerve agent. Halon might put a fire out but provided No protection to prevent the fire from restarting/reflash.
Wfoj2 (
talk)
02:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)reply
RE: Fire Source / Freon / Halon
Halon gas does suppress fires by displacing oxygen (it's heavier than air) and it is not a CFC. CFC stands for Chloro Flouro Carbon. Halon is Bromine based. They share similar properties, but are different gasses. It's kind of like confusing Oxygen with Hydrogen. Both are volitle, but only one of them we can breathe. [The above unsigned comment from
User:Sundive
Fire suppression activity of Halon is not perfectly understood, but it is a chemical process not an oxygen displacement mechanism. Normal system operation requires a concentration of Halon to be maintained in the space for a period of time. This concentration is relatively low, in the 15% range, this is why trapping persons in protected areas dose not normally ashyxiate them. Of course being sealed in a room with a fire has consequences! One of the big drivers for using Halon was this fact as weighed against one of the more popular early suppressants, carbon dioxide, which did displace all the oxygen in protected areas and did asphyxiate all trapped in the space.
69.228.216.116 (
talk)
16:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
The US Navy uses Halon 1301 as its suppression system. While about as destructive to ozone as a CFC, chemically it is composed of Bromine, not Chlorine. It works as a fire suppression system through a chemical process that absorbs the energy of the fire as well as through oxygen displacement. Dumping any gas into a sealed space up to a concentration of 15% will have a significant impact on fire propagation. Remember, oxygen is about 21% of total air. It is the ability to absorb the energy of fire (eliminating the heat side of the fire triangle) that makes Halon 1301 an effective suppression agent. The soak time of Halon is necessary because while enough heat energy may have been removed from the space at the lower oxygen concentration, if the space is ventilated and fresh oxygen introduced there may be sufficient heat energy to reignite the fire (sort of like a backdraft).
Dworjan (
talk)
23:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Yes the Navy uses 1301 as do many facilites that installed it prior to it being broadly restricted due to ozone depleting characteristics. But, it does not work primarily as an oxygen displacer like carbon dioxide, or an energy grabber like water mist. For reference just look at the Wikipedia article on it and follow the external link for general information. The primary mechanism is chemical interference with the combustion reaction.
69.228.216.116 (
talk)
17:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)reply
It depends on your definition of a "gas mask". The stuff in question, so-called "ПДА" ("personal'nyi dykhatel'nyi apparat" or Personal Breathing Apparatus) is indeed a small oxygen bottle with mask fitting, good for about 30 minutes of idle waiting or 10 minutes of work, indended to keep the crewman alive until the compartment is ventilated, or, optionally, until one connects to a cental breathing line through special hose. There might be confusion of terms, also. In Russian, the word for filtering gas mask and independent one is the same -- "противогаз", so it's neccessary to clarify it in times of doubt. --
Khathi (
talk)
05:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)reply
That's a tough one to say because India hasn't purchased the Submarine.It just leased it.But I too think that it can be renamed to INS Chakra.
Srikar Kashyap (
talk)
11:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)reply
File:Akula class submarine.JPG Nominated for Deletion
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The submarine is no longer "K-152 Nerpa" I propose all K-152 Nerpa terms to be replaced with INS Chakra except in places where the accident is mentioned — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
122.161.215.19 (
talk)
17:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)reply
As mentioned by
User:Srikarkashyap here
Talk:Russian_submarine_K-152_Nerpa#Rename_.2F_Redirect, this is a difficult issue, as the submarine is leased, not purchased. The are rumors that after the expiry of the 10 year lease, India has the option to buy the submarine, but that is disputed, and as such is prohibited under international treaties as this is a nuclear sub. I am not sure what to do. But building a consensus is a must for renaming the article.
Anir1uph (
talk)
06:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Requested Move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Russian submarine Nerpa (K-152) →
INS Chakra – I have previously(1 year ago) opposed the idea of renaming the article but after giving it a thought, I feel it makes sense to move the article. The boat will stay with India for 10 yrs which is quite a long amount of time and India will most probably buy it off after ten years. If India doesn't buy the sub then, we could rename it back to Nerpa in 2022
. For now, I would like you all to consider the rename request. Cheers, Relisted.
BDD (
talk) 22:43, 26 December 2013 (UTC) ƬheStrikeΣaglesorties16:37, 7 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Russian submarine Nerpa (K-152) →
INS Chakra – I oppose the idea of renaming the article but it also needs to have an interactive reference to any article labeled INS Chakra. The submarine will stay with India for 10 yrs which, while quite a long amount of time, still does not make it belong to India. At the conclusion of the 10-year lease the lease may be extended or the submarine returned to Russia. It cannot be sold to India.
While the formatting is confusing, the comment above "Do NOT Support" is this user's rationale. Its resemblance to a move request is probably accidental. --
BDD (
talk)
22:44, 26 December 2013 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment How do we handle vessels in similar situations? If this will be known as the Chakra for ten or more years, the move could be a good idea; if it's going back to Russia, then it seems the Chakra period is just part of the Nerpa's history. How can we make a decision without
speculating? Do any reliable sources still call the vessel Nerpa? --
BDD (
talk)
22:43, 26 December 2013 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Chakra is Akula-I Improved and not Akula-II, there is only one Akula-II ever built that is "K-157 Vepr"
Chakra is "Akula-I Improved" and not Akula-II, there is only one Akula-II ever built that is "K-157 Vepr". It is correct to refer to it as "Project 971-I" a subdivision of "Project 971". Do not refer to it as Akula-II class. This is a wide misconception.
standardengineer (
talk)
13:35, 21 October 2015 (UTC)reply
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