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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. And while this isn't really the forum to use to mediate content disputes, since there isn't really a consensus to move here, it would seem natural to restore the contents to countries that are on islands, with perhaps a separate section discussing borders or the lack of them.
Dekimasuよ!00:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.
I agree there is a problem here. This is currently a list of borderless countries, not of island countries. This page used to contain countries like the UK and Indonesia, but at some point they were removed. I see two options: we could alter the page to include all countries on islands, or we can rename it
list of borderless countries. -
SimonP (
talk)
17:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - I agree that there is a problem here, but rather than it being a problem of a misnamed page, it is a problem of 'Definition Creep'. The page made perfect sense vis-a-vis the title when it was originally started (see
HERE. The original purpose (i.e. definition) for the 'List of Island Countries' page was;
This is a list of countries which are made up of just islands. This means that they are either a single island or a group of islands.
That's a BIG difference from what the page is now. Now, the page's lede has a completely 'fabricated' (i.e. totally made up) description of what an 'Island Country' is. It is more than clear that the current definition existing on the page is artfully fabricated so that whomever, along the way, could add their own country to this list. But, the correct thing to do is to regress back to the original
Stated Intent of the page, and toss out everything that has been 'creeped' into it. Since the lede (definition of what an Island Country is) came straight out of someone's imagination, rather than a published Reliable Source, I am going to help this project by tagging everything on the page that carries the malodorous stink of having been created solely in the mind and imagination of some past Wikipedia Editor.
Joe Hepperle (
talk)
10:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't see your reasoning,
Joe Hepperle. An island country must be an island and must be a country. Island's are waterlocked, and obviously don't border anything. QED. The lede seems to be perfectly neutral to me, and we don't need to reference the obvious. I certainly don't seee the need to regress the page.
YeshuaDavid (
talk)
23:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Oppose. I normally argue that the title should be made to fit the article as it is currently written, not the other way around. However, in this case, an article called "
List of island countries" is needed at Wikipedia. Evasive euphemisms like "list of countries without borders" or "list of borderless countries" are lame and, even as separate articles, would be
content forks. (Plus, wasn't the
Mongol Empire a "country without borders" as were many premodern states?). As
User:FingersOnRoids[1] and
User:Joe Hepperle argue, stop the mission creep. — AjaxSmack 19:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Support: I agree this article should be combined with island country article. There seems no need to keep a separate article just for a listing. Also I don't see the need for an article distinguishing island countries that have a land border or not. Seems to be useless trivia. If one wants to know that just look at the entry for the country and see if it borders any countries (by land).--
Mistakefinder (
talk)
01:46, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Oppose: Wikipedia is full of separate 'list of' articles. Why should this be any different? What is a mistake is confusing "list of countries with no land borders" and "list of island countries." Haiti, Dominican Republic, Ireland, and United Kingdom are Island countries. Australia isn't.
Aldenrw (
talk)
19:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Support: Merging both articles would make this list look more encyclopedic. Also, this "list" should be renamed into "Island countries" or any other title that mght come to better describe the description of what an
Island country is.
Krenakarore (
talk)
21:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
This list is more complete and with one (or two) clicks of the mouse can easily be sorted by area. By merge I mean redirect.
AIRcorn(talk)05:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Just what is a "notable region". Any objective criteria? Or is it simply notable if a good few Westerners might expect to see it listed? How about we just apply objective criteria.
84.203.72.55 (
talk)
21:42, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
It is very difficult to define a non-sovereign political entity as a constituent country or dependent territory or self-governing area, but all 51 dependencies/territories recognised by the UN should qualify as "notable regions" in Wikipedia articles. Astonishingly, French Guiana, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, and Macao are the only four ”notable regions" in the world which are not entirely on islands. Hong Kong presents a strong case for inclusion as an island territory though, since it has a significant portion of its land and population on islands, its capital district is also on an island. Macao has a significant portion of its land and population on islands too, but its capital district is on a peninsula.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
15:17, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Because Australia is too big to be classified as an island country. It has an area equivalent to approx. 75% of the total area of all the world's sea islands. The Australian continent is as big as all the sea islands in the world, excluding Greenland, combined. However, I reckon Australia is worth mentioning in this article. We could include Australia in a separate section for statistical purposes, just like we have included the four major continental landmasses in the article
List of islands by area.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
15:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Hawaii, Réunion, Mayotte, Martinique, and Guadaloupe
I've added these to the "Dependencies and other notable regions" section. I'm not sure why they would be excluded. Hawaii is a state in the United States, and the other four are Departments of France, and as such are fully integrated parts of their countries; but, and this why I included them, are thousands of kilometers away from their homeland.
Islands that are very close to the parent colony, with no other special status, should not, I think, be included in the list. Nor would I include administrative divisions of Island Countries already listed. But if an island province (to use a generic term for a first level division of a country) is far enough away from the homeland, it seems to me it should be included.
I've also added a column for geographic location for both tables.
The title of the article is pretty clear, so it makes no sense to include subdivisions or dependencies. The only exception that might make sense is French Polynesia, which is an "
overseas country" of France, the various Netherlands Antilles or Greenland.
212.113.145.253 (
talk)
00:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
There's nothing but semantics that link French Polynesia and Aruba closer to each other than they are to many of the other entries on this list. Dependencies etc. are often listed in lists of countries.
CMD (
talk)
01:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
There is no guideline for countries, bar the general ones about following external sources. Dependencies are often included in lists of countries in external sources. Country is an inherently ambiguous word.
CMD (
talk)
01:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Those articles used to be called lists of countries. They were changed after many editors demanded the inclusion of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland into the lists.
CMD (
talk)
09:11, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Hawaii shouldn't be included. It is very difficult to define a non-sovereign political entity as a constituent country or dependent territory or self-governing area, but all 51 dependencies/territories recognised by the UN should qualify as "dependent territories and other notable regions" in Wikipedia articles. As a U.S. state, Hawaii is not one of them.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
15:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The Status of Malaysia
Looking at the list and map of island nations, the absence of Malaysia puzzled me. The main page defines an island country as one whose primary territory consists of one or more islands or parts of islands, but what does that mean for Malaysia, which has considerable land both on mainland Asia and the island of Borneo? It seems that the rule that primary territory of a country is that which contains its capital city is in play, meaning that because Kuala Lumpur is not located on an island, Malaysia cannot be considered an island country. If this was the case, then,
Equatorial Guinea would have to also be considered an island country because Malabo is located on Bioko island, but it too does not appear on the map. In my opinion, the fact that the majority of the country is of an island and not peninsular is enough to deem Malaysia an island country. I also realize that population may also be a factor in determining the threshold, but if it is not, I believe that the status of Malaysia should be given further consideration. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Mr M Mashup (
talk •
contribs)
03:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
You have initiated a very interesting discussion. In my opinon, there are at least four countries worth mentioning:
Equatorial Guinea,
Denmark,
Malaysia, and
Australia.
Equatorial Guinea has more land on the African mainland, but its capital city is on an island.
Denmark also has its capital city on an island. If we include
Greenland and the
Faroe Islands as part of Denmark (which is politically correct), then Denmark is a country dominated by islands.
Malaysia has more land on islands (
East Malaysia), but the majority of its population and its capital city is on a peninsula.
Australia is a unique continental country. It is the only country in the world which occupies an entire continent. Some people like to call Australia an island continent. In my opinion, Australia is too big to be classified as an island country. It has an area equivalent to approx. 75% of the total area of all the world's sea islands. The Australian continent is as big as all the sea islands in the world, excluding Greenland, combined. Nevertheless, I reckon these four countries are certainly worth mentioning, we should include them in a separate section for statistical purposes, just like we have included the four major continental landmasses in the article
List of islands by area.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
13:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I moved these entries from the sovereign states section to the notable regions. Northern Cyprous do not have the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states and Niue and Cook Islands are subject of New Zealand so none of them is considered
Sovereign state according to the definition. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
85.73.215.212 (
talk •
contribs)
Northern Cyprus is a
de facto state, its sovereigny is disputed. Niue and the Cook Islands are
associated states of New Zealand which have full treaty-making capacity within the UN System. They are sort of semi-independent countries between sovereign states and dependent territories. In my opinion, all these three political entities (plus Taiwan) are worth mentioning. I am happy with the list in its current format.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
13:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Kingdom of Denmark
I am curious as to why the Kingdom of Denmark is not listed as an island state? Does anybody know?
Both Greenland and the Faroe Islands are listed on the "notable regions" list and they form a quite large part of the
Kingdom of Denmark. Denmark proper even qualifies as an island state on its own, according to the definition given in the article. Only
Jutland connects with continental Europe, and then even the northern part of Jutland is an island in itself (see
North Jutlandic Island).
A man-made canal won't convert a peninsula into an island. However, I do agree that the Kingdom of Denmark as a whole (98.9% of its territory is on islands) presents a strong case for inclusion.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
13:35, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Australia
Australia is located on a continent. Who considers it an island, he or she knows nothing about geography or simply are illiterate. In similar case one may call any continent as an island. About border, the island of
Hispanola which raises no doubts about its categorization as an island has a land border and on its territory are situated two counties. Similar case is with Cyprus. In the past the island of
Sakhalin was under jurisdiction of two different and completely culturally unrelated countries. So, the statement about whether Australia has border or not does not necessarily makes the continent an island. If Canada and Mexico would join the United States, the North American continent will not be an island.
Aleksandr Grigoryev (
talk)
22:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with you. Australia is not an island. It is a continent which has an area equivalent to approx. 75% of the total area of all the world's sea islands. The Australian continent is as big as all the sea islands in the world, excluding Greenland, combined. However, Australia is a unique continental country. It is the only country in the world which occupies an entire continent. I think we should at least include Australia in a small section for statistical purposes, just like we have included the four major continental landmasses in the article
List of islands by area.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
12:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
UK - one main island?
Surely the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is on two main islands, not one? After all, Trinidad and Tobago is listed as having 2 main islands.--
94.3.112.109 (
talk)
03:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
According to Wikipeda's definition of a
Sovereign state, namely "having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states", Taiwan is a sovereign state. (Despite it technically claiming the territory of the PRC and Mongolia, Taiwan's actual governed territory has been stable since 1949, and so can really be said to be "defined".) Therefore I am putting it back in the list of sovereign states. If anyone wishes to revert the change again, please explain why.
RitKill (
talk)
22:45, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
I agree with the
above comment by @
RhinoMind:, Denmark is probably worth mentioning.
Island country is defined as "a country whose primary territory consists of one or more islands".
If you consider Faroe and Greenland as separate countries from Denmark proper, then approx. 59% of the latter's population and 42% of its area are on islands, including the
North Jutlandic Island and
Zealand, where capital city Copenhagen is located.
If you consider the sovereign country of the
Kingdom of Denmark, which includes Faroe and Greenland, then 60% of its population and 98.9% of its area are on islands.
One could also argue about
Equitorial Guinea, whose capital city Malabo is on an island, but where islands cover just 28% of the population and 7% of the area.
Also, the map
commons:File:Island nations.svg pictures coutries "with land borders shaded green, and those without shaded dark blue". However, Cuba (which has a border in Guantanamo) is shaded blue. It could be shaded in green. Also, Japan theoretically still has a land border in
Sakhalin in the absence of a peace treaty with Russia settling post-WWII land disputes.
Place Clichy (
talk)
17:13, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
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Yes, I agree with you. Hong Kong and Macao are not countries, certainly not sovereign states. They are "special" political divisions within China. In other words, China considers them as subnational divisions with some "special power", so they are integral parts of China instead of associated states or dependent territories. However, in reality, Hong Kong and Macao almost function as two independent countries. They have their own governments, they have their own currencies, they control their own borders, they manage their own foreign affairs, they participate in international sporting events separately, they can even issue their own passports! There are 51 dependencies/territories recognised by the UN, I think Hong Kong and Macao are the only two territories which have the power to issue passports to their residents.
120.16.149.175 (
talk)
14:45, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
current talk page.