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What's wrong with this paragraph:
Bogdan | Talk 08:10, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not really. He promoted the draft, publicizing it, and inviting people to vote it. In regards with the EU, the EU said not to change the constitution until an EU one was drafted. It's main role was to bypass a referendum for accession (that happened all over Eastern Europe, even Bulgaria will have one), Romania will not, due to this constitution. The main reason was fear of a very low turnout following the integration costs. -- Xanthar 1 July 2005 18:48 (UTC)
POV and absurd. "Had no choice"? Hardly. Also, the miners did not restore peace, but brought chaos and violence.
Absurd. What has the will of the people to do with the constitution ?
What 2nd term? It was his third/fourth! The constitution was to apply from 1991 on. That meant that the president "in term", that was under NO constitution, was to follow the 1991 constitution. Many people did not want him for president. They were simply faced with the prospect of an ultra nationalist dictator-like, mad man. And between Hitler and Khruschev (this was a comparison in fashion back then), everyone chose Khruschev. If Stolojan/Isarescu made it that far (it did not because of poor campaigning - in the villages no-one even knew that they ran, or were accused by the rural SPD/PDSR clique) they would have won. The will of the people IS the constitution, and therefore IT cannot be mocked. And what he did was not take into accout the will of the people, as expressed through the constitution, but disobey it. -- Xanthar 1 July 2005 18:59 (UTC)
No, he did not did reform. In fact, he delayed most of the reforms, during the Roman and Nastase governments, because they did not matched his communist views. Bogdan | Talk 23:55, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Reform, huh... After 11 years of Ilescu, Romania is poor, filled with corruption, got into Nato only due to luck, and after serious negotiation and sacrifice (Bulgaria got out easier), ended talks with the EU only to be a show for Nastase on TV in his confrontation with Basescu (thank God Basescu won), by signing whatever the EU demanded (if they demanded 3 steel factories and 2 refineries closed by 2007, he probably would have signed it, OH, HE DID SIGN EXACTLY THAT!). God save Romania and the Romanians inside it... -- Xanthar 1 July 2005 18:59 (UTC)
Newcomer comment: whereas the English version of Iliescu's biography tends to go towards an objectivity of some sort, the Romanian article on I.I., when someone or other tried to bring some objectivity in, is constantly changed to a whole page of accusations (which I'm not saying they cannot be real), instead of a regular biography of a former chief of state. Can Romanians not be objective?
Don't listen to Bogdan, he is probably one of those frustrated blokes with no real idea of objectivity. L337 Krew ( talk) 09:19, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
This article is now the first link on searching for Ion Iliescu on google, even above the presidency site. :-) Bogdan | Talk 16:40, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I don't have enough time to write right now. Maybe I'll try later. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 09:05, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I thought Ilici is a nickname given by political opponents. Please document the systematic revert of his name to Ilici as middle name.
"In 2005 investigations began that should eventually lead to his being put on trial for a number of accusations, including crimes against humanity, related to the bloody abuses of power he committed during the years 1989-1990, especially during the 1989 Romanian Revolution and the Mineriads."
Overexaggerated and utterly presumptuous statement. The fact is, he has never been put on trial. Another fact is, he has not been officially indicted of any of the above counts. Especially not of 'crimes against humanity', which is a fantasist and preposterous charge. Moreover, the word 'should' does not turn statements into facts.
"He was responsible for calling the miners of Jiu Valley to Bucharest on 28 January and June 14, 1990"
A highly contested issue in Romanian politics, actually. But if one drops Wikipedia's 'neutral point of view' policy, then one can squeeze this issue into a hard fact and we're fine. Who needs neutral points of view anyway?
But he himself, and his supporters, contested hotly that version of the facts. Wouldn't it be in the interest of fairness to state that? Maybe even contrasted critically with the above quotation, why not?
"In 1995, the Ziua newspaper published an interview with an ex-KGB officer in which he declared that Ion Iliescu was a member of the KGB"
I'm not talking about political slant, I'm talking about professionalism.
Maybe one should specify the fact that 'Ziua' is not exactly 'The New York Times' of Romania's mass media, in case some well-meaning reader is inclined to think 'newspaper' means 'newspaper with serious deontological standards'. These allegations, even though made as long ago as 1995, are still at the insufficiently founded allegation stage: one starts to wonder why.
But no, I'm sorry, I'm utterly wrong! Here comes the solid proof:
"However, a few days later, some journalists of the Ziua discovered they were being watched by the Romanian Intelligence Service -- the official explanation was that the secret service was in fact watching a spy that lived nearby."
As I said before: one starts to wonder why. And by the way: does anyone else feel a scent of conspiracy theory in the air, or is it only me?
User:128.36.87.85, you put the disputed tag on the article, but did not say what exactly you dispute. So, I'm removing it. 83.103.181.182 16:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
If anyone is willing to write about them in the article, here is the series of articles from Evenimentul Zilei, the first one being the interview and the others being reactions to it and the last one he apologises and attacks EvZ for not letting him "correct" the interview.
bogdan 21:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
It seems that this article is focused primarily on all the bad things about Iliescu (and I agree there are many), rather than taking a balanced approach that sounds in any way objective. What about NATO accession under his leadership? Planned EU accession? Economic growth under his last presidency? There was a lot of history during the eleven years he was in office -- much of it which he played a part in. Given realities in Romania, it is highly unlikely he will ever be prosecuted for his role in the miner's riots or during the Revolution. Yet this is placed near the front of the article, indicating somehow that an indictment is imminent.
That said, the article is a very good start thus far (although some of the language is awkard). It would also be worth noting Iliescu's remarks denying the Holocaust in Romania, which prompted international pressure that forced him to found the Wiesel Commission for the study of the Holocaust in Romania. Iliescu subsequently accepted the Wiesel Commission's recommendations on Holocaust education in Romania and accepted official responsibility for the Antonescu regime's direct involvement in the Holocaust and the death of several hundred thousand Romanian Jews. Arguably Iliescu's turnaround on the Holocaust was politically motivated, it is nonetheless commendable.
It is easy to bash Iliescu, but the man was elected on multiple occasions to lead his country and he still remains a popular political figure in some parts of the country (particularly rural areas). I'm not suggesting that his record in Romania be whitewashed, just that the uninformed be given a broader picture with at least some objectivity of what Iliescu did and still does represent.
This is not in any way meant to be crticism. Just some suggestions for making the piece even stronger. Congratulations to all who have worked on it.
I think that the first paragraphs are over-flattering, so I tried to balance the view. In 3 minutes, some anonymous guy, probably a Kiseleff activist (ask Mitrea), a 'postac' deleted it without any discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nomoteticus ( talk • contribs) 15:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
He was a member of the Communist Party, a Central Committee member, a minister in a Communist government, the president of a County Council, etc. bogdan 14:18, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
But what purpose is served by "Rom. politicians"? I think it should lead to subcats, and have no article leading directly to it (if possible). Since Iliescu is already in 2 (3) subcats, I think he's safely out of the vague one. Should I get him out of "politicians"? Dahn 14:59, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
-- Eumc 00:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
--
Eumc
00:11, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
There in no doubt in my mind about who comrade Ilici Iliescu really is and what kind of thoughts and ideas go through his mind,no matter where he is and what time of day it is.I was quite involved in what happened during the revolution of 1989,going out in the street and participating to many anticommunist meetings during the 90s.I remember very clearly,as if it were yesterday,that one day, immediately after Ceausescu had run away,Ilici and general Guse were on foot in front of the Council of Ministers building,close to the subway entrance.I was very close and I could hear Ilici tell the general that "we must call Moscow and tell them who we are and what we want". In fact,the first time I saw Ilici ,I asked what is he doing among the revolutionaries and why don`t we send him where he deserved to be - in jail,where all communists should have beeen sent those days.Had we done that,today Romania would not be today the last country to join Europe and the red stigma would have been long ago definitely wiped away from the face of the people.
I think a citation is needed when the article claims that 1 million votes were cancelled at the 1996 elections. 1 million out of about 17 million voters is 5-6%, quite much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.197.223.44 ( talk • contribs) 12 October 2006.
How can it be merely "alleged" that "The miners descended on the capital, armed with wooden clubs and bats and attacked the protesters." If we are going to split this into what is alleged and what is known, we should not classify something this indisputable as merely "alleged". - Jmabel | Talk 20:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I took a look at the French and Romanian Iliescu articles... they are very poor, POV, and contain biaised statements, they're merely pamphlets. This one is amendable, but still complies with neutrality and objectiveness principles of wiki. Let me congratulate you for your job, pals, since Iliescu is still such a 'hot' subject. -- dio 11:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Originally, he claimed to be a "freethinker" (liber-cugetător), which in Romanian is used as a synonym for "atheist". (see the dictionary definition)
Later, before the 1996 elections, during the TV debate with Emil Constantinescu, when asked whether he believes in God, Iliescu avoided the question, but he claimed that while he is a "believer" (credincios), he disagrees with the idea of "crede şi nu cerceta" ("believe and don't question"). These two affirmations are contradictory (and that's what Constantinescu replied to him), but Iliescu probably meant "morality" rather than "faith". bogdan 12:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
i don't think that's enough to call him an atheist... but anyway, we are not here to comment what he said... Anonimu 13:58, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Free-thinker is not used (in practice) in Romanian as a synonym for "atheist". Those who use this word are actually using it with an opposite meaning.The best example is Pavel Corut . The connection between atheists and Iliescu is a joke and an insult. Azdfg ( talk) 15:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Would it be posible to replace the actual picture with the official portrait?-- Alex:Dan 18:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:Ion Iliescu 1965 poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Image:Psd.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Iliescu contested ever saying that, so giving it as an undisputed quote violates WP:BLP. (in Romanian) interview in which he denies he said it. Feel free to add it back as a controversial issue, but not as an undisputed quotation. Pcap ping 04:49, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Based on how much space is given to this issue, you'd think this is the worst Iliescu has done. I'm considering condensing that section to 1-3 paragraphs, after I find more sources. Any objections? Pcap ping 15:59, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I will keep adding the style and awards to Iliescu's info as it is the sae case in other personalities...what is wrong in specifying his awards and adding His Excellency? — Preceding unsigned comment added by EddyVadim ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
should include that though he enjoyed a certain popularity due to his opposition to Ceauşescu and image as a revolutionary, his political career after 1989 was characterized by multiple controversies and scandals. Public opinion regarding his tenure as president is still divided. [1]. -- 144.131.184.153 ( talk) 01:51, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
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Who says that Iliescu was "excpelled from the party"? He never was, neither in 1984, as the article pretends, nor later or earlier. Although you find the claim also in the Romanian version, it is obviously untrue. I talked to Iliescu yesterday, and he denied the fact explicitely. Given his interest to play down his role as a communist leader, his denial is utterly convincing. Norbert Mappes-Niediek, South East Europe correspondent (who took for granted that the Wiki claim was right and was corrected by his interview partner Iliescu). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.102.53.86 ( talk) 15:16, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:47, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
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is there any statement he made declaring his atheism Allahbosno77 ( talk) 12:57, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
In the intro it says that he "is a Romanian politician and engineer". He made no contributions to the engineering field, no achievements, no inventions. His entire career was political. Why is there mention of him being an engineer, even though he's a career politician? He is widely known for his political career, not for his engineering degree. CubicalEuphemism ( talk) 15:50, 6 June 2024 (UTC)