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For older discussions before this article was split, see Talk:South Atlantic tropical cyclone.
Can the wording used be consistent? It is called a cyclone and a hurricane in the intro. It should be called either one or the other. And I'm currently leaning away from "hurricane" Hopquick 06:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC).
I changed the wording to this: "it was the first positively identified hurricane strength system in the basin" Please feel free to change it back or change it to whatever you wish, but the way it was worded... "first...hurricane" implies that Catarina was a "hurricane" which it technically...probably isn't. Hopquick
AFAICT this is an "unnamed" cyclone and, according to our naming practices, should be called either 2004 Catarina Cyclone or Catarina Cyclone of 2004. Jdorje 03:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
to mean a chronological first, the same alphabetical name system applied in North Atlantic and East Pacific hurricanes. I believe Brazil must be hit by tropical cyclones in the distant past, unless this is for sure the first time for Brazil or we're in serious trouble if this proven global climate change is upon us. Back in the late 1970s, below average winter "cold spells" struck the North American continent and covered pretty much the Eastern half of the U.S. It brought the first (and only) measured snowfall in Miami, Florida on Jan. 25, 1977 and the 45 straight days of heavy snow in Buffalo, N.Y. in Jan.-Feb. 1977 never occurred again. Was this a sign of a new "ice age"? Nope... we won't be complaining now on global warming or the controversy of a new "hot age" to come. I guess Brazil has (finally) a hurricane problem to get used to or there's no recorded history of such in Brazil before 1880. -- Mike D 26 02:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
All this is great but it'd be nice if there were a source that actually convinced me the name "Cyclone Catarina" has any validity. The citation given is to a brazilian meteorological journal and simply calls it "the cyclone Catarina", also referring to it as a "hurricane" (i.e. "the cyclone Catarina was a hurricane"). Also that's just an extract from a lecture by a single group, not representative of scientific consensus. Further, though the article states that SATCs are in the southern hemsiphere and therefore "typically" considered cyclones and not hurricanes, there's no citation on this given and it contradicts the previous citation which calls it a hurricane. Finally, the "aldonca" name appears to come from someone's homemade web page from hong kong, and is certainly not a "reliable" source; the WMO citation eric gives is broken now. In conclusion: though someone's done some good web searching to find this information, the citations are bad and the text is full of assumptions hidden in weasel words throughout the naming section. In the absence of an actual name I'd much rather treat this as an unnamed storm. — jdorje ( talk) 07:49, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
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Titoxd(
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09:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC)In the past this article said the top wind speed was 85 mph. A moment ago it said 95 mph. I changed this to 100 mph based on this data, which gives the top speed as 85 knots. It's worth noting that the way rounding is done, 80 knots is 90 mph and 85 knots is 100 mph, so since all organizations use knots in multiples of 5, I believe no tropical cyclone has ever officially had winds of 95 mph. Jdorje 19:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
The lowest pressure in the infobox is listed as unknown. However there's probably an estimate of it somewhere, if we could just find it (in fact that's probably the case for all storms in the satellite age...most southern hemisphere storms have their pressure listed as unknown right now, though). Jdorje 21:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This picture shows an estimate of 981mb. -- Ajm81 17:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
See http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagem:Furac%C3%A3onoBrasil.jpg . -- Jdorje 05:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I was browsing WMO docs and ran across this list of reports. At random I opened up the report for RA IV Hurricane Committe. It seems Brazil sent a representative to this WMO hurricane committee meeting in Miami in 2004, and she gave a presentation on the cyclone. Not much information there, but it does indicate the Brazilian government isn't denying the "incident". Looking at the 2005 report, there is no brazilian member present this time but the list of tropical cyclone meteorological offices does include a brazilian weather center. — jdorje ( talk) 06:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
David H. Levinson, ED.. 2005: STATE OF THE CLIMATE IN 2004. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 86 (6), pp. S1–S86
p. S30
“FENOMENO CATARINA:” THE SOUTH ATLANTIC’S FIRST HURRICANE?—M. RUSTICUCCI35 AND M. A. FORTUNE17
This is a grab from BAMS and is copyrighted material from the
American Meteorological Society, it is publically available though and a scientific journal so meant to be open, so in a talk page it's okay but don't paste this stuff.
Evolauxia
08:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
References cited in above article:
Bonatti, J. P., V. B. Rao , and P. L. Silva-Dias, 2004: Estudo observacional da propagação para leste do fenômeno Catarina e sua simulação com modelo global de alta resolução. Proc., XIII Congresso Brasileiro de Meteorologia, Fortaleza, Ceara, Brazil, Brazilian Society of Meteorology, CD-ROM. [Available from Sociedade Brasileira de Meteorología, Rua México, 41, Sala 1304, Centro 20031-144, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.]
Gusso, A., 2004: Aspectos Físicos Preliminares do Ciclone Extra-Tropical Anômalo Catarina na Perspectiva do Sistema de Satélites NOAA. Proc. XIII Congresso Brasileiro De Meteorologia, Fortaleza, Ceara, Brazil, Brazilian Society of Meteorology, CD-ROM. [Available from Sociedade Brasileira de Meteorología, Rua México, 41, Sala 1304, Centro 20031-144, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.]
Mattos L. F., and P. Satyamurty, 2004: Catarina 2004: um Sistema Meteorológico raro no Litoral Brasileiro. Proc. XIII Congresso Brasileiro De Meteorologia, Fortaleza, Ceara, Brazil, Brazilian Society of Meteorology, CD-ROM. [Available from Sociedade Brasileira de Meteorología, Rua México, 41, Sala 1304, Centro 20031-144, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.]
Reale, O., and R. Atlas, 2001: Tropical cyclone-like vortices in the extratropics: Observational evidence and synoptic analysis. Wea. Forecasting, 16, 7–34.
Menezes, W., and P. L. Silva-Dias, 2004: Um estudo do impacto das opções físicas do modelo RAMS na simulação numérica do ciclone Catarina. Proc. XIII Congresso Brasileiro de Meteorologia, Fortaleza, Ceara, Brasil, Brazilian Society of Meteorology, CD-ROM. [Available from Sociedade Brasileira de Meteorología, Rua México, 41, Sala 1304, Centro 20031-144, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.]
Sampaio-Calearo, D., and Coauthors, 2004: Monitoramento do Catarina no Centro Operacional da Epagri/ Climerh. Proc. XIII Congresso Brasileiro De Meteorologia, Fortaleza, Ceara, Brazil, Brazilian Society of Meteorology, CD-ROM. [Available from Sociedade Brasileira de Meteorología, Rua México, 41, Sala 1304, Centro 20031-144, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.]
Silva-Dias, P. L., M. A. Silva-Dias, M. Seluchi, and F. O. Assis-Diniz, 2004: Ciclone Catarina: Análise Preliminar da Estrutura, Dinâmica e Previsibilidade. Proc. XIII Congresso Brasileiro De Meteorologia, Fortaleza, Ceara, Brazil, Brazilian Society of Meteorology, CD-ROM. [Available from Sociedade Brasileira de Meteorología, Rua México, 41, Sala 1304, Centro 20031-144, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.]
Evolauxia 08:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Chin, Gilbert. The First of Many?. Science; 8/26/2005, Vol. 309 Issue 5739, p1302-1302, 1/5p, 1c
Halverson, Jeff. A South Atlantic Rogue. Weatherwise; Jul/Aug2004, Vol. 57 Issue 4, p62-63, 2p, 1 map, 1bw
Hecht, Jeff. The strange tale of the hurricane that wasn't. New Scientist; 4/24/2004, Vol. 182 Issue 2444, p16-16, 1/6p
Pearce, Fred. New Scientist; 9/24/2005, Vol. 187 Issue 2518, p10-10, 1/2p, 1c
Wilkinson, Bert. Caribbean experts sound warning about climate change. New York Amsterdam News; 4/8/2004, Vol. 95 Issue 15, p14-35, 2p
Evolauxia 09:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
What should the importance be on this one? It wasn't particularly damaging, and deaths weren't too high. However, given Catarina's unusual circumstances, I think it is mid. Agreed? I know I could have just done this myself, but this was a storm I thought should give some though. It was fairly important, at least. Hurricanehink ( talk) 02:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
The South Atlantic isn't a typical breeding ground for tropical cyclones, or up to most meteorologists' knowledge. I'm sure the arguments on whether to call it a tropical or subtropical storm system, or either caused by climatic shift from global warming or not. Before 1960, there was no professional meteorologist survey of the South Atlantic, partly to the once believed myth of "No tropical cyclones ever formed there". There are strong anticyclonic storms coming out of the Antarctic (45 or 50S parallel) in open swaths of the South Atlantic, but for a hurricane-like entity to strike Eastern coast of South America is indeed rare. But, how unusual was it or was there cyclones in the South Atlantic before recorded weather history in the 1880s? Brazilian meteorologists didn't always had the best weather technology until recently, and any serious tropical cyclone development would ever get recorded in the pages or blogs in the Brazilian weather offices. So far, the South Atlantic is mainly not a place to find tropical cyclones, except some disturbances and patterns are known to happen in the Southern hemisphere summer. Just like the occassional tropical storm made landfall in California and the extratropical systems had strike Northwest Europe, there is natural explanations for why these cyclones reach them in certain circumstances. The surprising Tropical Storm Vince in 2005 was over the Iberian peninsula, while I recall dissipated or mid-latitude Pacific "Hurricanes" was seen away from the U.S. Northwest coast has reasonable theories why this was possible. I've heard a few strong or longer-lasting typhoons reached northward to Siberia, Russia in close distance to Japan. The overall improvement in studies of oceanic currents, sea temperatures and variable wind shears may give out an answer for rare South Atlantic cyclones (or this counted as one). I would like to know, maybe there's more to explore in meteorology. -- Mike D 26 02:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
By whom? I'm not at all knowledgeable about this subject, but I can spot an unreferenced assertion! Loganberry ( Talk) 01:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Cyclone Catarina has a good introductory sentence. The map in the picture is good, but the aticle needs more images. I found two sentences in the article not depth enough. "A compact storm, it continued westward while steadily intensifying, reaching hurricane strength on the 26th Thre are three images in the picture all put in the right place." It sounds word and not concise. "And: It also killed at least three and injured at least 75."The refrences, the ones I saw were reliable, but some more information from source 2 could be incorpoated. Footnotes are reliable statistics, and unless I'm wrong I did not find any of them to back up important statements. And if I'm wrong, please correct me. The article itself is well written and covers most of the aspects of the topic. Even for an extremly rare Cyclone, I did not spot many words that really needed to be highlighted. Only the season names and words from the Impact section were necessary And words such as influences and effective are good words for a geography Article. The lead needs a big expansion and needs to be citated inline. The first statement shows the importance of the Cyclone and should be backed up. Some of the writing sounds simple and narrow and I explained some that already. Good luck and my decisions will me made ASAP.
Criteria review
I'm failing the article because the lead is too short and WP:LEAD proposes the introductiry to be at least 2-5 paragraphs. Other than that, a second attempt WILL probably pass, but the lead is not enough and more sections could be added.
There's a spot of vandalism under "Rare formation" that mentions "homo sex," but I can't seem to find the edit in the history. Can someone lend me a hand? - Cubs Fan ( talk) 04:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi! I will be reviewing this article for GA status, and should have the full review up soon. Dana boomer ( talk) 18:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
I have a couple of issues, mainly with external links and referencing, and so I am putting the article on hold to allow you time to address these. Drop me a note if you have any questions. Dana boomer ( talk) 19:04, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I have changed this information to show that SSTs were below average ( second data ref for March 24), as the "above average" temperatures may have been an assumption. ~ A H 1( T C U) 03:31, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
"$350 million (2004 USD)"? The Portuguese Wiki-Page speaks about "250 milhões R$" (250 million R$), that would be about 120 million USD 2004 and today about 140 USD. Or I am completly wrong? -- WikiMax ( talk) 15:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
These can come in handy later:
Titoxd( ?!? - cool stuff) 02:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Cyclone Catarina has been adopted by Wikipedia for many years, because of its location (Southern Hemisphere) and being considered as typical. However, in Brazil, Furacão Catarina (Hurricane Catarina) is much popular than Ciclone Catarina (Cyclone Catarina). Hurricane Catarina is also more popular in English even if the decision of Wikipedia affects its popularity a lot.
Although the term cyclone is described as typical in the Catarina article, it only refers to the summary written by Gary Padgett, which cannot represent most of reports and meteorologists at all. The document by the Brazilian Navy in 2011 indicates not only the name list but the scale. The scale is completely the same to the one that North Atlantic Ocean uses:
As the document is currently the de facto standard of the tropical cyclone scale and naming of the South Atlantic Ocean west of 20°W, also with the popularity, my suggestion is to use hurricane completely to all hurricane-force tropical cyclones in the South Atlantic Ocean, including Catarina and future systems, until the World Meteorological Organisation appoints an agency to monitor that basin and changes the scale. -- Meow 05:37, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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