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OK, to start off, here are some questions on your list of desired information:
Also, would it be worth organising a separate 'to do' list of redlinks? Or can we just work from the Castles in Scotland list. ::Supergolden:: 10:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
The standalone map looks good. Infoboxes can become overbearing for all but the largest of articles, especially when competing for space with photographs. Just my 50p worth. -- Cactus.man ✍ 15:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I've thought some more about the 'status list' idea. I envisage the life of an article as follows
I think if we could (to-do) list each castle under these approximate headings then it would provide a good check of progress. I will begin to do this on the progress page. Slink pink 17:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed some recent entries by User:Lianachan which relate to places rather than castles, e.g. Thurso (now removed). We will have to keep a careful watch for such additions. Slink pink 11:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Do we need both the category and the page? Slink pink 11:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
I have now looked through all the pages that exist on the Castles in Scotland page and have shortlisted my top 5 for the following reasons (no 1 being my favourite):
Well, your thoughts are appreciated. I think that if we can agree an approximate layout, then a template can be created. Slink pink 17:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
From these articles it would seem that the following structure could be used:
Although its good to have a map for each castle, I think there should always be a picture at the top, with the map at the bottom maybe? ::Supergolden:: 11:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
For castle articles, I think that there should be some sort of an infobox on the side that says basic information like the name of the castle, where it is, what year it was built, who built it, and possibly a picture. -- Isabella123 23:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I have put up a request for a {{ Scotland-castle-stub}} template and category at Wikiproject Stub Sorting. I think this should be OK, so in a week we should have our own stub cat for stubby castles, like my favourite, Moreland Castle ::Supergolden:: 12:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I just found out about this project. Thanks, Slink Pink, for getting this going, and thanks, Supergolden for pointing me here.
Do any of you more experienced Wikipedians know whether Wikipedia supports some type of simple database functionality for articles within a category. I'm imagining someone doing a simple search for all Scottish castles that are, for example, tower houses in Arberdeenshire. We'd have to define a set of basic fields for Scottish castles -- location, type of structure, year of initial construction, year(s) of significant expansion, family (or families) with significant connection, etc. -- which would probably be reflected in an infobox.
Obviously, this could be done at the most basic level with a table on a Scottish Castles page with all of the data, but I have something a bit more interactive and integrated into Wikipedia than that.
I have no idea whether this is possible. If it is, I'd appreciate a pointer to an example of something like this elsewhere on Wikipedia. (If it's not possible and the reasons have been discussed elsewhere, I'd appreciate a pointer to that.)
-- JohnPomeranz 21:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[I've copied some discussion from above related to this issue to bring it all into one place...]
The standalone map looks good. Infoboxes can become overbearing for all but the largest of articles, especially when competing for space with photographs. Just my 50p worth. -- Cactus.man ✍ 15:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Although its good to have a map for each castle, I think there should always be a picture at the top, with the map at the bottom maybe? ::Supergolden:: 11:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[Now adding my own two cents (pence?)...]
I agree. Location maps are good. I like the Scotland Infobox map, but it's hard for us non-Scots to use when the subject mapped -- castles in this case -- are generally listed by county because it doesn't show the borders of the counties. I recognize that adding all the county boundaries would clutter up the map. Could we compromise by showing regions and grouping castles by region (or would that fail because some regions have too many castles to make a readable list)?
I note that a few castles (e.g. Brodie Castle and Huntly Castle) have a different style of location map created (or at least added by) User:Topbanana. I like these images, but their fault is not showing the location in the larger context of Scotland.
Maybe what I'm looking for is general Scottish castles article with a large map showing all the castles in Scotland and then detail maps for each region. (Such an article could also talk about Scottish castles in general, discussing common features, etc.)
Another idea... Rather than a simple dot on the map for the castle, could we use symbols that provide more information? Ruin vs. Standing; Open to the public vs. closed; different symbols for different basic types of castle construction... Whichever information we think important enough to make clear at first glance.
-- JohnPomeranz 22:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a slightly different topic from the location map, so deserves it's own heading. I have also copied some relavent comments from above.
First, I think your suggestion of a proper Castles in Scotland article is great - i think we really need some sort of overview of how castle building developed across the country, different types of castles, architectural styles, why castle building stopped and when, why there are more castles in some areas, modern day preservation and restoration, all that stuff. The current list page could then move to List of Castles in Scotland. A fine idea. ::Supergolden:: 10:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I have created a template for the project: {{ WPSCOTCASTLE}}
Which looks like this:
![]() | Scottish Castles Project‑class | ||||||
|
This can be put ON TALK PAGES of relevant articles to draw attention to our efforts. ::Supergolden:: 08:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Newark Castle, Port Glasgow was moved to Newark Castle, Inverclyde, the reason given in the edit summary being "std dab by local govt". This "std" is not reflected in the Castles in Scotland list, where Newark Castle, Fife is the only other title to use the current local govt. name. Nisbet, Berwickshire uses the historic county, and Beaufort Castle, Scotland the country. The Earl's Palace, Kirkwall and Bishop's Palace, Kirkwall use the town name, Earl's Palace, Birsay the name of the village and parish. The "std" was not discussed on the talk page or here. Using the county or region name is useful for castles in the countryside, but not the normal usage for castles in towns. A move back to the original name has been requested at Wikipedia:Requested moves and votes are at Talk:Newark Castle, Inverclyde. Serious consideration should be given as to whether this new naming "std" should be introduced. dave souza, talk 18:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC) amended .. dave souza, talk 20:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
What to include? The time has come to decide what will be allowed on the Castles in Scotland list. We need to decide what makes a castle a castle and whether or not to include other castle-like things (e.g. tower houses) in our list, or what to do with the things not in our list. Do we...
Once again, your thoughts/suggestions are welcomed. Slink pink 16:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Having previously expressed a wish for as many images as possible of the interior, exterior and gardens/other features of note, it occured to me that each article (where required) could have three sub-pages containing only images. For example,
The article could contain a small number of the best, say one or two from each category, or more if it was a particularly large article. I think that this may help to keep a good balance of text and images throughout without sacrificing material. If this seems agreeable, I can produce a sample using Elcho Castle for which I have a large number of images, and the article needs written anyway. Slink pink 06:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
This page is growing quite rapidly these days, so I would like your opinions on the proposal of creating a number of other work pages, like the progress page, to categorise specific queries and notes. I don't know what to call such pages or how many we may require. Slink pink 06:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Hope everyone likes the Project Page reshuffle. I wanted to get more stuff from the discussions onto the front page, hopefully to encourage more involvement and discussion! Feel free to edit away... ::Supergolden:: 10:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there a standard format for citing those tourist boards/notices (those things with lots of info on the castle that are there for visitors to read) as sources. I added soume info to the Broughty Castle article that I got from some but I thought it would look better if it was referenced. Ydam 12:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I've taken some photos of Dudhope and Mains castles in Dundee but they don't have articles as of yet so I'm going to place them here so that when they do get articles they'll be easily accesible for those that need them. Ydam 15:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
At a minimum, I suggest all articles contain a sentence as follows: "The Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland lists the site as a ____________ (e.g., castle, tower, motte, etc.) and holds records for the monument in its databases under map sheet __________ (e.g., NS92SE), site number _________ (e.g., 3). See article on Crawford Castle.
It would also be helpful to researchers in history and archeology as well as persons researching ancestry or planning to visit Scotland to include (in each article re Scottish Castles) the raw data from public records as shown in the article for Crawford Castle. A good primary source for location and archeological data for many Scottish castles can be found in the public records held in the National Monuments Record of Scotland database. Subheadings listing or expositing this data could include those subheads shown in the article for Crawford Castle (i.e., exact location by map coordinates, archeological notes, etc.). Also, please consider adding footnotes to your article. The archeological data from the National Monuments Record of Scotland database includes footnotes and it would be immensely helpful if those footnotes were reproduced in each article on a Scottish castle. I cannot recall if I had to pay for some of this information when I originated the article on Crawford Castle. Not all of the information held in the National Monuments Record of Scotland database is available on line.
This is NOT to say the article on Crawford Castle cannot be improved - it has a long way to go and I would appreciate any help you can give to improving this article as well as the Lindsay Tower article. I initially had some trouble distinguishing Crawford Castle from the castle known as Crawford Castle or Spetisbury Rings, iron-age fortification and its ruins, at Spetisbury in Dorset, England (see Crawford Castle (disambiguation)). There are likely more good connections to be made between Crawford Castle and William Wallace that have not been uncovered.
Anyone heard of this one. I'd never heard of it before and it's not in the list but I was browsing through this leaflet and it featured it. I'd love to go and get a photo of it for any future article but aside from the fact that it's in Dundee I can't find any information on it or its precise location aside from a vague reference to it being north of dundee Ydam 18:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Billreid has added an infobox to Spynie Palace and Duffus Castle (there may be others). I think this would make a great template for use across the wikiproject, but I think some discussion is needed to make sure the template suits all castles. My comments would be to add an entry on 'Condition' (ie ruin, occupied, etc), and on a more cosmetic point, to take out the frames around the imiages, and put the photo, rather than the map, at the top. Anyway, thanks to Billreid for making a start. What does anyone else think? ::Supergolden:: 12:52, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Duffus Castle
Location |
Duffus,
Nr Elgin,
Moray,
Scotland 57.68N 3.29W |
---|---|
Established | c.1140 |
Last occupied | 1705 |
Construction | First castle: wood -
Motte-and-bailey Second castle: - stone keep with curtain wall |
Built by | Freskyn, of Strabrock and Duffus |
Owner | Historic Scotland |
Entry Fee | No |
Recently published: Castles of Scotland- Martin Coventry, Birlinn General 2006. It lists around 2700 fortifications in Scotland Brendandh 22:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 20:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afriad) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 15:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)