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CBM ·
talk)
03:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Translation request
The Japanese article
ja:日本神話 has the following sections in あらすじ:
The category "sacred and mythical locations" is also odd. I've visited
Mount Hiei and
Mount Fuji, but if I had visited
Yomi I would not be able to tell you about it. The first two are actual places visited by Buddhist pilgrims (among others); the latter is the
mythical realm of the dead in Shinto.
Are members of this task force interested to create separate templates for religious and folkloric topics, ideally linked back to one another with a cross-reference? I'm not particularly expert in this area, but know just enough to take mild offense at the current templates.
Cnilep (
talk)
15:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I agree that all these non-Shinto creatures and other topics unrelated to the mythology seem out of place. The Japanese template only includes Kojiki and Nihon Shoki and the tales on the creation myth and the birth of the deities who rule the natural world. I listed these topics in my translation request above. Yokai and mukashi-banashi characters are topics of
Japanese folklore, and I think more templates are needed. I'm not a member of this task force at the moment, but that's my opinion. --
Shinkansen Fan (
talk)
17:13, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Please take a look at my {{Jmyth navbox long}}here. I added the content of the Japanese template
ja:Template:日本神話 to include the creation myth, mythology from Izumo and Hyuga, and the earliest emperors.
I don't think Buddhism and the Seven Lucky Gods belong here because their origin is not related to the mythology. Ryugu-jo most often appears in the folklore, so it should be moved to the folklore template. Also,
Kami is not specific enough and may be omitted. --
Shinkansen Fan (
talk)
06:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by "related to the mythology." Are you suggesting that there is a single mythic tradition in Japan? You may also want check out the template {{Shinto}}, by the way.
Certainly the 七福神 (mostly) have origins outside of Japan, but their treatment as a group is a strictly Japanese tradition, isn't it? (As I mentioned above, I'm not expert in this area.) Similarly, Buddhism has its origins in South Asia, but its practice in Japan is in some ways regionally specific. I guess it depends on what one means by "Japanese mythology".
I think that it might be good to remove the whole "Mythical locations" heading from the current template. As Shinkansen Fan says, Ryūgū-jō is mostly referred to in secular folklore (e.g. Urashima Tarō). Tamagahara and Yomi are important concepts in Shinto, but do they need a link outside that to Shinto?
Specifically regarding Shinkasen Fan's template: I don't understand the organization. This is probably because I have limited knowledge of Shinto. Importantly, though, there is no explanation of this organization on any of the pages linked. This makes the template not very helpful to Wikipedia users who are not already expert in the subject. Also,
navboxes are not supposed to contain red links, and both Izumo and Hyūga link to DAB pages and so need to be changed.
Cnilep (
talk)
14:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
The
Japanese mythology is a series of tales about the creation of the deities and the land in time immemorial, as told in Kojiki, Nihon Shoki, and Fudoki of some provinces such as Izumo. These texts chronicle the events that took place in Takamagahara, Izumo, and Hyuga. The creation process began with the birth of the five asexual deities,
Kotoamatsukami in Takamagahara followed by the twelve deities (seven generations), "Kami(no)yonanayo" (the seven generations of the divine age). Izanagi and Izanami are the seventh generation. Izanami gave birth to the land of Japan (Kuniumi) and the gods and goddesses of natural forces (Kamiumi). The Buddhist deities and the Seven Lucky Gods don't appear in the mythology because they are not ancestors or descendants of Izanagi and Izanami. Perhaps we can move the Buddhist deities to a Buddhism template. I think Shichifukujin falls into the category of folk beliefs rather than the mythology.
Both Takamagahara and Yomi are important in the mythlogy, so they should stay. I included Izumo and Hyuga as mythical locations.
Susanoo descended to Izumo and
Ninigi descended to Hyuga. Emperor Jimmu started his expedition to the east (Yamato) from Hyuga. There are a few other tales related to these places. The ancient provincial powers like Izumo, Hayato, and Kumaso may have their own tales, but I don't know much about them.
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