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Retrocausality is up for deletion here. Tim Smith 20:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Electric universe (concept) is up for deletion. Tim Smith 04:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
User:Tim Smith has been the subject of a new User request for comment. -- ScienceApologist 19:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Discussion is ongoing here about whether Christopher Michael Langan's "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe" deserves a section in his article. Outside input appreciated! Tim Smith 20:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I propose that we should get Wikiproject userboxes involved to identify users. I also feel that we should expand our project page to make it more like other project pages. (example: related projects section) Lighthead 21:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I have proposed a deletion review of The Photon Belt if anyone wants to contribute their comments about it. - Eep² 09:13, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a new WikiProject task force proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Inter-religious content that is being proposed to deal specifically with articles whose content relates to several religious traditions. Any editors interested in joining such a group would be more than welcome to indicate their interest there. John Carter 15:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Conspiracy Con has been nominated for deletion--even after extensive sourcing. Please give your comments/vote. Thanks. - Eερ² ( t| c) 21:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi guys. I just wanted you to know I began a page today of interest to your project: Category:Alternative Views articles needing expert attention. This is part of the expert finding process. Goldenrowley 04:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
At least topic-oriented WikiProjects such as this one (and most all others as well). It is a well-proven mechanism for recruitment to the project, and it provides a central focus helping us to identify where specific work is needed. The basic form of an assessment department rates articles by quality (from Stub to Featured Article). Many WikiProjects also include an importance (or priority) scale. More advanced features such as requests for peer-review, photo, infobox and alerts for pages in particular need of attention can be added also. For more ideas about how we can shape this project, take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide/WikiProject. I have set up assessment departments for two other WikiProjects ( Rave and Alternative medicine), and I will do it here also if this move is approved of. __ meco 10:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Goals of Rational Skepticism:
Goals of Alternative views:
I see no relationship between the two, but different goals with very different ideas. Thus I am removing the Rational Skeptics from related. -- Northmeister 12:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I think that this removal qualifies as a violation of WP:POINT and I have reported it here. Northmeister should know better. ScienceApologist 15:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
There is now a proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Due weight for a group which would work to help ensure that our content complies with the principle of WP:Undue weight. One of its foci could definite be the so-called fringe theories, including fringe scientific theories. Any editors interested are encouraged to show their support there. Thank you. John Carter 18:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
What is the role of science in producing authoritative knowledge? How should Wikipedia report on pseudoscience? Veterans of numerous edit wars and talk page battles spanning dozens of articles across Wikipedia, User:Martinphi and User:ScienceApologist will go head to head on the subject of Wikipedia, Science, and Pseudoscience in a groundbreaking interview to be published in an upcoming issue of Signpost. User:Zvika will moderate the discussion. Post suggested topics and questions at The Martinphi-ScienceApologist Interview page. 66.30.77.62 ( talk) 18:24, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Before we get a project banner template to stick on articles' talk pages, I don't think we are going to make very much headway. __ meco ( talk) 11:20, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
We have at Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative Views/Articles a list of articles which several editors have deemed to be within the scope of this project. I have initiated the work of adding our new talk page banner to these articles, however, I am finding so many entries which I cannot with my best imagination understand could possibly have anything to do with this project. I have however tagged all articles without letting my second thoughts interfere. This has been done up through Black people, which again made me balk. Perhaps we should discuss, and possibly prune, this list before I proceed further? __ meco ( talk) 09:36, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
The scope of this project is fuzzy, to say the least. As Meco notes, inclusion of Black people into the scope of this project would mean that you could probably auto-add each and every article on Wikipedia. Tell you what, how about tagging those articles (if any) not falling into the scope of "alternative views"? You'd be done much sooner.
Now, if we see this as the private project of some Wikipedians, a list of "here are some articles we like to keep an eye on", fine. In this case, move it to user space, and refrain from tagging talkpages. But like other Wikiprojects, you seem to be keen on letting the world know "we were here", leaving your tags at the top of random talkpages. If this is to be the way it is done, let the scope of this article be defined very clearly. E.g., only articles on topics directly attributable to a notable controversy. Perhaps only those articles that qualify for Category:Controversies, and perhaps Category:Hypotheses (but, if Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative Views simply equals Category:Hypotheses, what is the point? People can already navigate by category). Otherwise, the project tag will mean nothing. Alternatively, as I said, you are perfectly free to userify this and then do as you please, just as long as you refrain from advertising on article talkpages. If this project is simply a counter-project to Wikipedia:WikiProject Rational Skepticism, as I daresay it appears, it should be scrapped, or merged: we don't need turf-wars-by-project-templating. If there are two sides to a given field or topic, interested editors should unite within one Wikiproject and try to collaborate, they should not create party-line Wikiprojects vs. counter-Wikiprojects. All we want is proper enforcement of WP:DUE. If a minority view is notable, let it have its own article. If not, prevent it from having its own articles. I am disturbed by the implication that this project will try to "save" minority view articles from deletion if notable, while the obvious alternative: make sure that minority view articles failing our notability criteria are duly deleted, is conspicuously absent from the project goals. If you have any experience at all in this field, you will agree that creation of minority view articles isn't a problem, they get created at a staggering pace. The difficult part is figuring out which to keep, which to merge, and which to delete. If you take a "keep by default" attitude, you are not "free of bias". The proper attitude dictated by our policies is "keep if notability is established, delete or merge otherwise". -- dab (𒁳) 11:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Can this project be applied to conspiracy theories? Smallman12q ( talk) 00:20, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion on the talk page of the above article which I believe would be of interest to the members of this project. Any and all input is welcome. Thank you. John Carter ( talk) 17:05, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot ( Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 04:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Over on the AIDS denialism talk page a new user ( Haytham2 ( talk · contribs)) is giving a description of this project which seems to be at odds with what this project says it is about, and also at odds with wikipedia policy. If some people with more experiance of this project could take a look, and point out any inaccuracies on the article talk page and perhaps to the user as well, I'd be very grateful. I'm pretty sure he is wrong in his interpretation of this project, but clarification would be helpful. All the best, Verbal chat 13:47, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I was pretty clear in my posts on that page that I am not promoting my view (although ended up defending it in response to other posts), but rather trying to correct an "unfair" and "biased" term that is consistently used on Wiki: "denialist". While I understand that the majority of the scientific orthodoxy uses this term, it is also an intentionally pejorative term simply never ever used by dissidents (which is what they/we are called). "Denialist" brings to mind Holocaust deniers and also the unscientific frame of mind of denial itself. So since "AIDS denialist" is neither accurate (no dissident denies AIDS, but only HIV or its role), nor respectful, it seems to me to fall well within the scope of this project. Any more experienced editors here please correct me if I am wrong. Haytham2 ( talk) 23:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
A project looking to cover "alternative views" on Wikipedia would see to it that there is an article on Aids denialism, not to try and give it any credibility it does not have. Wikipedia is a platform to document the most lunatic, extremist, dumb or eccentric views there are, if only they are notable. But it will always label them for what they are. If they are pseudoscience or hoaxes, they will be labelled as 'pseudoscience', or 'hoax'.
This is why the heliocentrism icon is an extremely poor choice for representing this project. The implication is that "an idea that may sound stupid today may still turn out to be correct in the future". This is what every crank will tell you about their pet theory. That is an inversion fallacy, of course. Ground breaking ideas are often ridiculed. From this it doesn't follow that if your idea is ridiculed, it must be groundbreaking. It is astronomically more likely that it is ridiculed simply because it is ridiculous. -- dab (𒁳) 13:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Here are some thoughts to get a discussion going:
So, what think ye? Are you here at this project intent on ensuring that NOR is upheld and that the policies regarding the proper treatment of Fringe theories/alternative views are upheld, or do you think that they are getting the raw end of the deal and so you are here to ensure that they get more coverage? -- Fyslee ( talk) 03:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
<-- Maybe the section Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative Views#Motivation should get tweaked with the addition of Vassyana's qualifiers, because there are newbie editors who are so simplistic that they might interpret this project as license to engage in OR. -- Fyslee ( talk) 14:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
<-- copy begin -->
I see that you added WikiProject Alternative Views back into Talk:Medical cannabis. That's fine, but I originally removed it because I'm not sure how it fits into your project. It's already tagged as a member of WikiProject Medicine, WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants, and WikiProject Alternative medicine. How does tagging it with "Alternative Views" help the article? Or to look at this another way, how does "alternative views" apply? Just consider me ignorant on the matter; all I ask for is some form of education on the topic, as I'm not familiar with the AV project. Viriditas ( talk) 09:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- I hadn't noticed that it had been taken off the project. Well, it's a judgement call, and there is decidely significant overlap between some projects. I figure it belongs as the topic encompasses some significant conflict between its proponents and the scientific/medical establishment. I consider a topic being prominent conflict material to be one major criterion for deciding that an article belongs to WP Alternative Views. __ meco ( talk) 10:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you for explaining. If that is your position, then I disagree. The conflict does not stem from the scientific nor the medical establishment, but is solely a political and governmental issue concerning the use of illegal drugs. Looking at surveys that measure public opinion across the board, those in favor of using medical cannabis or at least allowing it are a significant majority, so I don't see how this is an "alternative view" at all. Yes, it is now considered alternative medicine, but until sweeping drug laws were put in place across the globe in the early 20th century, cannabis was once part of the medical establishment. I really don't see this as an "alternative view" in any way. The right to self-medicate, to alleviate pain and suffering, is a basic human right that no government can regulate or take away. Viriditas ( talk) 10:25, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- You state your position in an interesting manner. As I read you you are actually advocating that medical cannabis should be perceived as an uncontroversial subject. It is my clear perception that this is a controverisal issue, and simply shifting the controversy from the realm of physicians and scientists to that of politicians and government figures does not suffice to make it an uncontroversial issue. I'll be glad to discuss with fellow Alternative Views project members this particular article and whether there is consensus to have it included in our project if you insist that it doesn't belong. __ meco ( talk) 10:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- What is controversial about the issue? Surely, you should be able to describe the controversy in a sentence or two? I think you will find it very, very hard to show any controversy when discussing the use of medical cannabis by people suffering from serious diseases, and that is exactly what this topic is about. I think I can safely observe that there is no controversy. What there is, however, is the political and legal will of a very small group of people who wish to prevent others from alleviating pain and suffering. No, that is not controversial by any stretch of the imagination; The correct word for it is criminal. Which is an alternative view? Viriditas ( talk) 11:14, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
<-- copy end -->
<-- Copied from above:
There's no reason it cannot be both! :-) Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative Views#Policies and guidelines supports the first. At the same time, Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative Views#Motivation supports the second. This project's purpose, as I understand it (an interpretation I believe is supported by the main project page), is to make sure neglected minority views have their coverage improved within the bounds of established policies. There's plenty of "alternative views" areas that need a lot of attention, and even expansion. Some are horrible stubs. Others are fluff pieces or hit jobs written by editors looking to share The Truth. Sometimes a significant minority (of coverage in reliable sources) may be excluded, simply because the previous editors were not aware of it or were not aware of its extent. I'm sure you can imagine plenty of other examples. The key is that this all should be done while following our basic content principles. It should not be an excuse to correct the horrid wrongs of the orthodoxy or any other such nonsense.
tl:dr version: Both. Follow policy. Improve neglected areas. :) Vassyana ( talk) 05:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
...
<-- End copy. Continue below.
Let's give it a try here. The section currently has this wording:
Version 1 (current version):
Here's an attempt to tweak it and enlarge it:
Version 2 (Fyslee):
That's a start, and I'm sure it will need more tweaking. Please propose your version(s) below and number them. -- Fyslee ( talk) 02:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
(Note: I'm a he, not a she. *chuckle*) I'm good with most any revision close to the mark. Please be sure to remove or merge material from other sections, so the page doesn't become redundant. To me, the essential point boils down to: "We are not here to correct real-world coverage. We are here to report real-world coverage. We are not here to counterbalance real-world sources. We are here to balance according to real-world sources." --
Vassyana (
talk)
21:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 08:44, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
It's intriguing that the military recruitment tools of East European nations qualify as "alternative" views. Another example of Western bias on the English Wikipedia?
I mean did you even read the external link to the Socionics INSTITUTE? Any of you? Did you even think about this?
I realize it's not fair to blame all of you for this insult to the history of East Europe scientific acheivement, but to those who are more competant about these things do speak up next time. Also, I like how MBTI merits inclusion on the CD, yet socionics doesn't despite its much more advanced model. I wonder if there is a conflict of interest afoot? Tcaudilllg ( talk) 11:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
![]() | WP:NOT#PLOT: There is an RfC discussing if our policy on plot, WP:PLOT, should be removed from what Wikipedia is not. Please feel free to comment on the discussion and straw poll. |
Apologies for the notice, but this is being posted to every WikiProject to avoid accusations of systemic bias. Hiding T 13:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Some of you may wish to participate in the discussion on renaming the category Armenian Genocide deniers to Armenian Genocide skeptics. The discussion is here.-- Anthon.Eff ( talk) 14:30, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Obviously I understand the goal of any project here is defined by its members individual opinions of what it should be, so this might not have a definitive answer, but I'll propose the question nonetheless.
As I understand it, the main current goal of this project is to look for small underdeveloped articles "needing attention" (possibly stubs), or to create new articles, for subjects without a lot of coverage on Wikipedia, owing to the fact that those with knowledge of them or with interest in these topics are in a minority and thus under-/un-represented. Or not fluent English speakers and mainly contribute to projects in other languages.
My question regards large existing articles that receive had a lot of attention, are on topics of great popular interest. When viewed by an "average" English speaking white male American (just using the typical en.wikipedia editor according to statistics as an example) the topic of these articles might seem well represented in their contents, but in reality the views of minority cultures, nationalities, etc. might not be well represented.
What are people's views on this? It's an area that might not show up on radar as easily as small under-developed articles might. ɹəə pıɔnı 09:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Does your project care about what happens to the talk pages of articles that have been replaced with redirects? If so, please provide your input at User:Mikaey/Request for Input/ListasBot 3. Thanks, Matt ( talk) 01:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.
We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.
If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 21:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
The article on Terrance McKennas Timewave zero has just been through an Afd which it survived with no concencuss. A user is now trying to merge it into another article where it is reduced to a paragraph. Any comments on the debate are welcome. Lumos3 ( talk) 11:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Cirt ( talk) 06:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I have reviewed Raëlism for GA Sweeps to determine if it still qualifies as a Good Article. In reviewing the article I have found several issues, which I have detailed here. Since the article falls under the scope of this project, I figured you would be interested in contributing to further improve the article. Please comment there to help the article maintain its GA status. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 05:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
An RfC has been opened - discussion at Talk:Bristol Indymedia. Jezhotwells ( talk) 08:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Hello. I am getting in touch with you because I am after some advice, and this seemed the most reasonable space to ask. I have been involved in creating an article about Steve Lightfoot, who is a conspiracy theorist with some quite unusual views. I am of the opinion that Lightfoot is notable, but so far people are nominating the article for deletion. I am obviously prepared to accept the result of the discussion, but I am concerned that the only people involved in the discussion are Stephen King fans, who may well dislike Lightfoot (as King crops up in Lightfoot's most well known theory). I was wondering if you had any advice - I am aware that the very nature of Alternative Views is that they are often harder to source than mainstream ones, and despite Lightfoot's mention in several (both local and national) news sources, I am concerned I am fighting a losing battle.
I wonder if anyone could advise me:
- if there is a better way of sourcing my article to avoid its deletion or - if I'm just going nowhere and the article is likely to be deleted anyway.
Any help you may have would be great - I'm not overly versed in the policies of Wikipedia (but I have been reading up), and any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Thalweg & Nimbus ( talk) 13:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
I have in recent times been in several confrontations with User:Verbal over the placement of the project banner on talk pages of articles on topics such as a Chemtrail conspiracy movie, an academic promoting reincarnation research, and most recently, an article on alternative media.
I think these skirmishes are highly unnecessary, and they also become disruptive when the evolve to bickering and revert wars. Since this is obviously a question which goes to the core of this project, i.e. which articles belong within the scope of this WikiProject, this page is the place where a thorough discussion should take place – a discussion which aims to revise our current scope description into something less ambiguous and having the broadest possible consensus in support of it.
The current scope of the project is defined to be:
I hope as many project members as possible will see the importance of conducting this discussion without further delay. __ meco ( talk) 14:47, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The scope section is not very clear. It should limit itself to describe the scope, i.e. which areas and topics are covered by this project.
I will put forward a suggestion that this project could become a parent project for some other projects dealing with fringe topics and disciplines, such as the Paranormal WikiProject, Alternate History WikiProject, WikiProject Alternative medicine, WikiProject Alternative education, WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants and WikiProject Cannabis. I am not proposing this, but merely presenting the idea here for others to comment on or discuss.
When it comes to conspiracy theories I would propose we cover articles on these, on conspiracy theorists and on media which promotes them in an earnest fashion, whether they be documentaries or fictional films. Movies and television that deal with conspiracy theories in an exploitive fashion, such as the movie Conspiracy Theory or the X-Files TV series should be outside the project scope.
I think we should consider subjects that are often ridiculed and demonized, whether that be the Myth of the Flat Earth or pedophilia advocacy, as well as alternative culture such as the hippie movement. We should cover drug policy reform and white supremacy.
These are my thoughts for now. Nothing hewn in rock, so please don't bring out your artillery quite yet. __ meco ( talk) 21:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I think it might help if the project had some kind of discussion on why people have alternative views and why others reject them. The general assumption of the project seems to be that most people are honestly trying to find the truth and can have an honest disagreement about what the evidence is saying. That is probably a reasonable assumption in most situations. But if you look at genocide denial, it is mostly about the motivations for genocide denial and pretty much assumes that deniers have some conscious or subconscious motive that blinds them to the evidence. I don't know what the best approach is here. Most of the time this is probably true... but is that a fair way to represent an alternative view? Yaris678 ( talk) 12:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I find that the article Stanley Meyer's water fuel cell clearly falls within the scope of this project. User:Verbal disagrees. Any takers? __ meco ( talk) 15:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me this whole project can be shut down by the reliable source policy on "Extremist and fringe sources". It says "Organizations and individuals that express views that are widely acknowledged by reliable sources as fringe, pseudo-academic, or extremist may only be used as sources of information about those organisations or individuals." In my experience, a source in the minority is barred completely because editors will revert it saying the source is "extremist or fringe". I have tried to cite a tenured professor who was hired to research for the US Senate and was unable to do so on the grounds the source was "fringe". The policy does not appear to allow any counter-arguments. If it is "fringe" (or, more accurately, subject to the possibility of being deemed "fringe" by other Wiki users) it is out! I suggest working to change that reliable source policy before going down this road of trying to ensure that "alternative" views get a hearing. Bdell555 ( talk) 20:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Bdell, I too can certainly relate to a lot of what you are saying. Who is the tenured professor you are referring to?
I am trained in science, have a couple of university degrees, and actually regard myself as a fairly mainstream person, but I do have an interest in the work of Ian Stevenson, who was a tenured professor at the University of Virginia until his retirement. On his death he received obituaries in NYT [2], Washington Post [3], and Daily Telegraph [4], so he is quite notable, and he has written 13 books, mainly published by the University of Virginia Press. He has worked in several areas, including reincarnation research.
But there are sceptics on wikipedia who seemingly just don't want his work to see the light of day. And several articles relating to his work seem likely to be deleted, see [5], [6], and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of books by Ian Stevenson. I have never seen deletions being pursued so vigorously as here; it is like these people are on some sort of righteous crusade. It seems to me that sources such as the Journal of Parapsychology and Journal of Scientific Exploration are just not being seen as reliable in any circumstances. Johnfos ( talk) 20:07, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
A group of editors has proposed that the article Timewave zero be replaced with a REDIRECT. The article has been in existence since 2004 and has survived 4 attempts at AFD; I feel the redirect proposal is a way of circumventing Wikipedia process as it does not require discussion by the wider Wikipedia community as an AFD or Merge would. I has set up an RFC to discuss the propriety of using REDIRECT in this way see Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Policies. In the long term we need to set a precedent that replacing an established article with a REDIRECT requires as wide a consultaion as a merge or deletion. The article is already tagged as within the scope of the Alternative views project; contributions to the RFC would be welcome , go to Talk:Timewave_zero#Is a propsal to replace a long existing article with a REDIRECT in fact a deletion?. Lumos3 ( talk) 13:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
For anyone interested, there's a discussion currently in play over at talk:2012 millenarianism (recently renamed from 2012 doomsday prediction) about what should be the most appropriate name for this article, with its scope covering various 2012-related speculations/predictions/theorising/phenomena. Arguments for/against various current title proposals are at Talk:2012_millenarianism#Definition_of_Millenarianism and Talk:2012_millenarianism#Formal_discussion_on_page_name, and there's an open poll at Talk:2012_millenarianism#Title_of_article_--_the_.28single_transferable.29_vote.21. Contribs & thoughts welcomed.-- cjllw ʘ TALK 03:58, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
I have requested a list of popular pages for this project at [7]. -- Ysangkok ( talk) 15:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi. The article List of religious organizations is in need of serious help. It was in an abandoned state and discussed for deletion, however I feel it has strong potential to become a useful list. But it needs lots of help and collaboration. Is someone of you interested? -- Cyclopia talk 23:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello! HIV dissent is being changed to a forward for AIDS denialism. HIV dissent is about those who question the practices used in HIV research. It is not about AIDS denialism (HIV and AIDS are not the same thing), nor is it about HIV denialism (denialism isn't actually a word anyway). I believe that HIV dissent qualifies as an "Alternative View" not traditionally accepted by the mainstream. AIDS denialism is widely accepted by the masses, particularly in regard to the political issues in Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neuromancer ( talk • contribs) 04:26, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
After a recent request, I added WikiProject Alternative Views to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Alternative Views/Popular pages.
The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr. Z-man 00:52, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
/discuss —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.181.12.52 ( talk) 17:24, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Anarchism has been nominated for Good Article status. I have assessed it and placed in on hold so that some points I have raised can be dealt with. I see the article has this project's tag, so am informing people here. My comments are at Talk:Anarchism/GA1.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 16:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 02:31, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people
Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, many wikiproject topics will be effected.
The two opposing positions which have the most support is:
Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.
Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced BLP articles if they are not sourced, so your project may want to source these articles as soon as possible. See the next, message, which may help.
If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here
If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles that your project covers, to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip
If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip
Ikip 05:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Please comment and help create a consensus version at Talk:Alternative_medicine#RfC:_Proposed_new_section_.22Alternative_medicine_as_mainstream.22. Thanks. -- Brangifer ( talk) 15:09, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Announcing an RfC at Talk:Ghost#RfC:_Context_of_NSF_statement_about_belief_in_ghosts. The questions being discussed are:
1. Whether the National Science Foundation is a reliable source for stating that "belief in ghosts and spirits" are " pseudoscientific beliefs".
2. Whether their expressions can be considered to represent the current scientific consensus (in the USA) on that subject.
See you there! -- Brangifer ( talk) 17:06, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Please, go make your voice heard in the discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reverse scientific method! Rursus dixit. ( mbork3!) 12:59, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Please weigh in there. This is just an announcement. -- Brangifer ( talk) 05:03, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
"Pharmaceutical Telepathy and the Human Biofield", March 2010
JohnDoe489 ( talk) 17:34, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am trying to start a debate about defining what news organisations, as a reliable source, are good for and/or not good for. It is not as clearly defined as other similar reliable sources policies and it should be. Please see Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources#News_Organisations_section ~ R. T. G 19:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I wish to express concern at the bias presented towards those who are not in favour of current 'accepted' popular climate change theories, and particularly towards the pages related to Climate Change and Global Warming. While there are arguments both for and against climate change, and on these I will not take a stance in this respect, but it is abundantly obvious that the page in question could be considered to be propaganda. My primary argument for this, is that all images on such pages only provide information which is consistant with the view of climate change lobbyists, whereas if, for example one was to compare levels of atmospheric carbon from the end of the Permian period to today, one would discover that during the Permian period, instead of 300ppm from today, it was closer to 3000ppm.
For an indicator of my claim to bias, a majority of the article on Climate Change Skepticism, details groups whose interest it was in to discredit climate change. Further indicators are found throughout pages of books published about such topics as "The Myth of Climate Change" one such case being the book Heaven and Earth, where more of the article about the book is taken up by criticisms leveled at it and how, in the eyes of the press and the ever elusive, completely consenual group that in this areticle are referred to as Scientists, in the entire section titles Receptions from scientists, only remarks made in a negative light have been shown (bar one which is entirely neutral), and if one cares to look within the scientific community one may discover a range of other viewpoints, as opposed to a collection of mathematicians, astronomers, astrobiologists and geographers. While I am not defending the book in question, I merely state that given a large enough group of people, there are bound to be differing views found within, as opposed to the concept portrayed within the article of a single unanimous viewpoint.
In Conclusion, the purpose of wikipedia is to allow a user to gain knowledge. Knowledge should be objective and not subject to bias. In such examples as is found here, instead of informing the viewer, it instead supports one viewpoint in favour of another.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.184.110.240 ( talk) 13:05, April 24, 2010
I have completed a new draft of Shakespeare authorship question, a problematic article about a minority viewpoint. I see that the article is assessed as High Importance here at this project, so I would sincerely appreciate input from some uninvolved editors who would be willing to review the article for its overall structure and format, as well as any NPOV or WEIGHT issues that have not been addressed.
Does the article progression make sense? How about the section heads? Are the in-text attributions handled properly? Are there any major issues that jump out at you?
Here is the latest draft that I am requesting comments on: [ [8]]. Please leave comments here or on my talk page. Thanks. Smatprt ( talk) 17:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
FYI, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World has been controversially merged into Gavin Menzies. An RfC has been opened on the issue, see Talk:1421: The Year China Discovered the World
70.29.208.247 ( talk) 03:09, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
A WikiProject has been created, for the topic with main article: Transcendental Meditation movement. The project page is located at WP:TMMOVEMENT. Feel free to list yourself as a participant there. Thank you for your time, -- Cirt ( talk) 19:24, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Confirmation bias, which is rated as high-importance for this wikiproject, has passed FAC. This brings the total number of FA-class Alternative Views articles to 3. MartinPoulter ( talk) 11:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.
We would like to ask you to review the Alternative Views articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.
We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!
For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 00:08, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
The following article was nominated for deletion, The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism. Since the article is part of this WikiProject, please feel free to raise your opinions in the AFD debate. Marokwitz ( talk) 08:32, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect to the spiritual side of "Harmonic Convergence" [I spent my last big one atop Haleakala, Maui back in the late 1980s] the generic English words "harmonic convergence" have importance in the semantics related to the development of hybrid electric bicycles which depend on harmonic convergence to balance human muscle/gear power with electrical motor power.
I suggest disambiguation or some other way to work around a "spiritual" meaning getting in the way of technology. Any suggestions? Bobkiger ( talk) 18:10, 3 October 2010 (UTC)Bobkiger
I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick ( talk) 20:22, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
A discussion has begun about whether the article Werner Erhard vs. Columbia Broadcasting System, which is relevant to the subject of this WikiProject, should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Werner Erhard vs. Columbia Broadcasting System until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Thank you for your time, -- Cirt ( talk) 18:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I notice that the Shakespeare authorship question article has not been assessed. How is that done and who does it? The article is currently in WP:PR with plans to try for FA when that is completed. Tom Reedy ( talk) 06:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
{{ Fringe}} has been requested to be renamed, see template talk:Fringe. 65.95.14.34 ( talk) 12:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi guys!
Great project idea!
I recently founded WikiProject Dacia out of good faith and interest for the Dacian history. Unfortunately, the knowledge about the subject is scarce and the controversy is high. Not soon after the completion of the project structure, I came under attack and falsely accused of Protochronism. One illustrative example is the conflict around the Dacian script, labeled as Protochronistic and fringe theory by some and proposed for deletion, although notable. The entire project is under attack as well.
A large amount of attempts to calm the situation has been done from the project level:
I would greatly value your input, as I am sure you are faced with similar situations. Thanks a lot and best regards! -- Codrin.B ( talk) 17:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Venus project has become a recognizable name. There has to be 100s of people like me who don't know when they are looking for "venus project" that it has an association with Fresco or Zeitgeist untill they discover it in one of the three sites. Links among the three is entirely appropriate. But disapperaing one of them into another one of them has to border on intellectual fraud. "Related" to each other does not mean "same" as each other!!! 64.118.18.55 ( talk) 15:13, 11 February 2011 (UTC) John
Given the closely linked subjects of the various religion, mythology, and philosophy groups, it seems to me that we might benefit from having some sort of regular topical discussion forum to discuss the relevant content. I have put together the beginnings of an outline for such discussion at
Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/2011 meeting, and would very much appreciate the input of any interested editors. I am thinking that it might run over two months, the first of which would be to bring forward and discuss the current state of the content, and the second for perhaps some more focused discussion on what, if any, specific efforts might be taken in the near future. Any and all input is more than welcome.
John Carter (
talk)
Automated message by
Project Messenger Bot from
John Carter at 15:44, 5 April 2011
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Rumors about the September 11 attacks is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rumors about the September 11 attacks (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.-- The Devil's Advocate ( talk) 18:00, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Don't you guys notice a reoccurring theme here...
Check the bottom all the references are from a government agency or the so called "4th branch of government" the media...
They are obviously hiding something. No sight of this happening in China?
Come on guys do your research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.4.177 ( talk) 07:12, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
There's an interesting discussion going on at Deletion Review over whether an article about a prominent raw foods advocate and spiritual teacher should be created or continue being deleted. Of note, there is a controversial section in the article which has raised questions about BLP and RS issues. The subject also requested deletion of the prior article in an Afd. The topic definitely presents alternative view , so there may be areas where your WikiProject is relevant. I would appreciate any thoughtful comments or criticism, especially in the area of your speciality, the handling of alternative views in the article. Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 17:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
There has been a long-standing dispute on the above article relating to some proposals, particularly by Robert Eisenman in his book James the Brother of Jesus (book), and James Tabor, and his book The Jesus Dynasty, regarding whether the sources named above qualify as fringe theories as per WP:FT. I had some time ago recused myself from editing the content because of some accusations of falsifying sources. However, I believe that an independent review of all the relevant articles by knowledgeable, uninvolved, editors, would be very useful. Thank you for your attention. John Carter ( talk) 23:25, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Can anyone from this project provide some insight into the discussion regarding Talk:Fractal art#Dr. Bahman Kalantari. - Shiftchange ( talk) 09:12, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
There is now a proposed general Manual of Style for Religion and other articles relating to ethoses or belief systems at Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/Manual of style. Any input would be welcome. I personally believe at least one of the reasons why many articles in this field have been as contentious as they have been is because of lack of such guidelines, and would very much welcome any input from others to help come up with some generally acceptable solutions to some of these problems. John Carter ( talk) 21:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)