The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A reassessment nomination. A 2006 a-class promotion that contains substantial uncited text; would likely be assessed as a start-class or c-class today. Original nominator has not edited since 2014.
Hog FarmTalk15:12, 28 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I'll see what I can do to try and provide some cites for the uncited bits - and to provide where possible more useful cites rather than citing the whole book - help would be helpful of course - does anyone have a link to the original A-class review?
Nigel Ish (
talk)
18:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Additional comments: Most of the sourcing issues on the main "Design and development" and "Operational history" sections should be fixable as long as enough effort is put in, although page numbers for "McLaren 19982 would be helpful - similarly, the "Variants" section should be fixable. The "Operators " section is a bit of a mess as it seems to be trying to cover all F-84s, not just the straight-wing Thunderjets that are the subject of the article - this should either be trimmed back to just cover Thunderjets or split off to cover all F-84s, leaving a summary and redirect design. The "Aircraft on display" section seems to be badly sourced (with both unsourced entries and entries with non-RS sourcing) - some thought is needed for this section.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
20:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)reply
I've now worked through the history, versions and operators sections - leaving the detailed lists of USAF operators and Netherlands aircraft as the fixed and swept wing variants need to be de-picked. I would like to ask what's the best way forward for the Surviving aircraft section if anyone can be bothered to comment.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
21:24, 30 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Might it be best to scrap the section about display aircraft? It looks like it would be difficult to verify all of the entries, and near-impossible to get any kind of completeness.
Hog FarmTalk14:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)reply
This F-84 article lacks citations in many places after the Korean War section, especially variant and on display list entries. Good progress needs to be made on this soon or delist it, imo.
-Fnlayson (
talk)
22:32, 29 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Took a quick scroll through of text. Especially noticeable to me was the Surviving aircraft section. It not only lacks cites, it seems bent on listing every surviving F84 in existence. How many times do you have to see the same airplane with a different background?
Georgejdorner (
talk)
20:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Note that this article actually has an Aircraft on display section which is more limiting than a Surviving aircraft section. Several entries are not sourced and entries have some repeated links which are being removed.
-Fnlayson (
talk)
21:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)reply
I think I've fixed the remaining cn tags in the variants section - I think it's probably better to move the On display section to a daughter article - otherwise people will just re-add it with similarly dubious sourcing.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
15:36, 2 September 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Nigel Ish: - I'm a bit busy right now, but I'll try to get to this next week. Looks like the uncited text has been resolved except for a few stray things in the operators section.
Hog FarmTalk22:34, 14 September 2022 (UTC)reply
I don't think " "USAF Losses in Korea". www.alternatewars.com. Archived from the original on 29 February 2020. Retrieved 6 March 2020." is RS but beyond that this is looking pretty much ready to keep. I'll see when I can chip in a prose read-through but don't know what that'll be for sure.
Hog FarmTalk18:29, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
It appears to be an extract/summary from
[1]United States Air Force Statistical Digest Fiscal Year 1953 (and in particular Table 10 - pp. 26–29), which is a US Government document - while an old primary source, the statistical digest probably counts as a WP:RS.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
20:12, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Ah, okay. So we can verify where the website (which doesn't seem particularly authoritative on its face) is getting that information. Would it be possible to cite directly to the old USAF document instead?
Hog FarmTalk20:27, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
According to Willis there was a 127th Fighter Squadron which was part of the ANG - but based at Wichita (which would suggest the Kansas ANG rather than Michigan?), which was activated to join the 137th Fighter Bomber Wing of TAC. Willis doesn't mention the various 127th Wings. Of the ones list in the last paragraph of the Design and development section, all bar the 127th were SAC units.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
09:02, 22 October 2022 (UTC)reply
I'm not convinced that the paragraph in question actually adds much to the article - why mention SAC units (and not all the SAC units) in the design and development section? I'm tempted to remove it.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
09:19, 22 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Kind of bizarre.
127th Wing redirects to
Michigan Air National Guard and
127th Fighter-Bomber Wing redirects to an unrelated unit. No page on the wing itself. However, the 127th Wing has been a fighter wing, but it never had any of the three designations listed in the article. The wings listed (except for the 127th) were all SAC units. However, there were ADC units, TAC units, USAFE units, PACAF units, ANG units and reserve units that flew the straight wing version of the F-84. These were not the first operational units to fly the F-84, the
14th Fighter Group (ADC) was
Knaack with F-84Bs, the
20th Fighter Group (TAC) was the first to equip with the F-84C. I agree with
Nigel Ish that this doesn't belong in the development section. It also implies that wings that were not even around until 1953 were flying the Hog in 1948 (407th, 506th). --
Lineagegeek (
talk)
20:32, 22 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Lineage of US aviation units of all their armed forces seems a bit crazy and coverage on Wikipedia is inconsistent - the 127th FBW article actuallly covers the 127th Fighter Squadron - which is the one that was/is part of the Kansas ANG - there does appear to have been a separate 127th Wing which at some stage became page of the Michigan ANG, possibly as some sort of umbrella wing for the 107th Squadron - wether it has anything to do with the F-84 is another question.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
20:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)reply
For that it needs someone with access to McLaren - I have asked on Wp:Military History. Otherwise, if we want cites with that degree of accuracy, it is replace where possible and remove where not.
Nigel Ish (
talk)
10:46, 23 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Ping everyone here
buidhe,
Nigel Ish,
Peacemaker67, @
WP:MILHIST coordinators:
. Hi everyone I took a two-month break because of my exams and back then this was nominated though this nomination was back then dead for already two months. Now I'm back I want to finish this so that we have a small clean-up with our ARCs. Can we please have a look into this? Cheers.
CPA-5 (
talk)
19:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Due to RL stuff, I don't think I'll be able to follow up here until March 2 at the earliest, and it'll probably be a few days after that so I can catch up on more urgent things.
Hog FarmTalk22:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as I can tell, the only outstanding stuff is the missing page numbers from McLaren. Can anyone spot anything else that needs to be done?
Nigel Ish (
talk)
22:26, 23 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I'm not planning to follow up, all I can say is that the article is not what it was when I last commented, so please disregard my comment. (
t ·
c) buidhe00:04, 24 February 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.