Request Information

Request made by: mp2dtw 04:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Where is the issue taking place?

... Metro Detroit

Who's involved?

...Polaron and I (mp2dtw)

What's going on?

...The name referred to, in three places under "Metro Detroit" as "Detroit-Warren-Flint". I changed it to "Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint" thinking that someone from Warren was having a good laugh. Within a few minutes it was reverted--not by someone from Warren, or even a Michigander. As surprising as it is to me (and the two people to whom I've mentioned it in the past hour or so), the census bureau does officially call us "Detroit-Warren-Flint" which, if you live here, makes very little sense. Warren is a 1950s/60s suburb filled with strip malls, subdivisions and a rather large GM facility. It is the third largest city in Michigan, only because most of that township incorporated at one time and the houses are smaller and closer together than in similarly sized fully urbanized suburbs like Livonia, Farmington Hills, and Sterling Hts. While I was growing up (70s/80s) we were always the Detroit-Ann Arbor CMSA. Detroit and Ann Arbor were the two MSAs essentially making up Metro Detroit. Then, Flint was added and I'd only seen us referred to as 'Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint.' The New York Times Almanac refers to us as 'Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint CMSA', as does the World Almanac, presumably because Detroit, Ann Arbor and Flint are the three PMSAs in the CMSA. In an exchange, Polaron stated that we should stick with the official designation. I understand Polaron's preference for official names, but there are times when being strict about such matters doesn't work. To someone outside Metro Detroit 'Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint' gives a better sense of the region. Ask someone within our metro area and Detroit, Ann Arbor & Flint are the three primary central cities. The only three cities in Metro Detroit with central business districts, both public and private colleges & universities, Amtrak stations, professional symphonies, television & radio stations, daily newspapers, art museums and other significant institutions are Detroit, Ann Arbor and Flint. In fact, Warren doesn't have a central business district (or a major mall for that matter), a 4-yr college or university, Amtrak station, a daily paper, a professional symphony or a museum or cultural entity of any significance. I'd like to point out, here, that I don't think that I'm being a snob. I live in Westland which is very similar to Warren in nearly every respect, except we have a major mall and don't have a large Big Three facility. It might make sense to, once, state something like "...Metro Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint (officially designated Detroit-Warren-Flint by the US Census Bureau)..."

If we were always literal and official, we'd say that the US is made up of 46 states, 4 commonwealths and so many territories. We'd never refer to someone as a 'Congressman' or running for 'Congress' because Congress is both the Senate and the House of Representatives. We'd say that London, England is a tiny city of one square mile and 9,000 (or however many) residents. But it makes sense to say 50 states, Congressman so & so or that London is the largest and wealthiest city in Europe because they're essentially, though not literally or officially, true. I think that it makes sense to equate Metro Detroit with Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint rather than Detroit-Warren-Flint.

What would you like to change about that?

... I'd like for you to weigh the issue and decide whether we should always be literal and official or that there are times when common sense or popular perspective can dictate something to the contrary. If you think that the later makes better sense, would this situation warrant the exception or, at least, a compromise? If changed, should this change the designation for Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint elsewhere?

Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?

...This is my first time doing something like this. I trust your judgement regarding discretion. Please feel free to e-mail me or leave a note on my user page.

Mediator response

I will take this case on. This is your first time requesting mediation, and this is my first time mediating. I hope I can be of help. I have notified both editors that I am here to help out, and I have given them my first compromise idea. Viva La V i e Boheme

Compromise offers

Please tell my what you think of each offer.

One option that you can take is do use all four, Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor-Flint. Viva La V i e Boheme

Another option is mentioned in the case above, "Metro Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint (officially designated Detroit-Warren-Flint by the US Census Bureau)". Viva La V i e Boheme

It seems that you both like some form of the Second Compromise, "Metro Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint (officially designated Detroit-Warren-Flint by the US Census Bureau)". I will change it, and it will be settled. Viva La V i e Boheme

Discussion

When referring specifically to the statistical area defined by the Office of Management and Budget, we should stick to the official name. In the Metro Detroit article, the official name appears only in two places: the infobox and in the intro paragraph (as a statistical entity used for the population figure of the metro area). I have nothing against emphasizing the role of Ann Arbor in the metro area in the article. In fact, the article might benefit from having a blurb about the role of each of the principal cities. It is not a problem to refer to it, additionally, by another name if, for example, that is what locals call it. My only point is that when referring to statistics, please stick to the official name of the area so others can easily look it up from primary sources if they wanted to. If you want to say, something like "The Detroit-Warren-Flint Combined Statistical Area, more commonly known as the Detroit-Flint-Ann Arbor metropolitan area...", that's fine. Just don't replace the official name with an invented name when referring to statistics (e.g. population, area, median income, GDP, etc.). -- Polaron | Talk 22:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC) reply