orphaned, superseded- Jack ·
talk · 17:20, Sunday, 18 February 2007
Delete. Although I was a bit confused between this image and the image that is now on
Vinyl until I read the article, I believe that the other one is, not only is better quality, but more accurately reflects the subject. Harryboyles06:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Keep I realize that it will be deleted along with the rest of previously used season promos, but I'm not going to support that with my vote. --
thedemonhog04:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)reply
In
Social Consequences by Gottfredson, the source for this image the bell curves are used to make inferences about job potential and other factors. This is the only reason the curves are made the same size even though the populations are different sizes. I have created a new version of this graphic because I felt that this version did not correctly reflect the intention of the source. It displays sensitive data in a shoddy manner without any context.
Gottfredson's curves are rather roughly drawn, as is this approximation of those curves that I'm asking to be deleted. This roughness is acceptable only because of the rough ideas she's trying to convey using this graph. It's more of a diagram than a graph, when you think about it. Moreover, this type of graph represents a certain kind of POV. Without the labels it could be misinterpreted to be an exact presentation of IQ scores. It is not an exact representation of IQ scores, it's a part of a thesis on the implications of the gap in a social context. Taking it out of context and removing the labels makes it seem more scientific than it really is.
On the wikipedia we favor more information over less. Removing the labels removes important information about the way the graph was made to further a POV on this topic by obscuring the nature of the kind of discourse this graph was designed to promote.
futurebird05:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
String Delete- When I first saw this new graph with the "jobs" I did not like it. But, now I can see how it is better to "include more information" rather than hiding things just because some people will find them offensive. The labels help me to understand where the person who made this graph is coming from. It gives it CONTEXT. I think that is incredibly important with a topic like "Race and intelligence" since that's where this image will go in the end. So, this image without the "jobs" must go. The image should always have the "jobs" on it. That's what the woman who created it is trying to say with it. We can't change it just because we're embarrassed for her.
JJJamal06:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Very strong agreement with keeping new version and deleting old version. Wikipedia should provide as much information as possible and allow readers to draw their own conclusion.
Iseebias
Delete/remove old version. Even with the new version, the only reason to display it would be to illustrate Gottfredson's hypotheses. So, those crude simplifications reflected in the image should be pointed out in its caption. ---
Sluzzelin06:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Where the hell is this being used? Never mind. I don't wanna know. Looks like a graphic illustration of the mind of an old math teacher (obese, built like a boxcar, hairy with a moustache) in high school who pulled me aside and asked me if my mom (a teacher, later administrator, who graduated college at 19), would clean her house, or could suggest anyone who could ('cuz all colored women did domestic work, right) -- and then later tried to advise me against attending college. WTF? If we're not going to just blow the sucKKKah up (both of them), then the new version -- by all means.
deeceevoice07:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Strong keep - futurebird's presentation of this subject and seemingly her understanding of it is inaccurate and biased towards a fringe POV. more importantly, there's nothing about either image that actually merits deletion. which of the two should be used in any particular article at any particular location is a matter of article construction. nothing about the images themselves is a problem for WP policy. don't try to circumvent discussion by calling for straw polls to delete material you don't like. --
W.R.N.08:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Keep new version and delete old version but move "Training potential" and "Career potential" closer to the left and align them properly (and maybe use different font/fontsize), otherwise it looks as if IQ 55 is the one with the career potential.
SecurID13:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
comment using one version or another in any particular article is context dependent and not an issue for IFD. there's nothing "wrong" with either image in themselves, and neither can directly substitute for the other in all contexts. --
W.R.N.21:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Keep both - the two bells are different. They give different information to readers. If one says the old is "superceded" by the new, then all but one curve bells concerning intelligence among races should be deleted. --
Deryck C.13:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Comment If the copyright status is OK, then I'm all for keeping it. It's a userspace photo and thus there are less restrictions. However, the issue of copyright is one, I'm not sure of. One point I noted is that you, Tony, are technically not the creator of the photo, the photo studio is and thus has copyright if I am right. Harryboyles10:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Comment On the image description page, the user has stated that it is a GFDL image, however there is no tag. Im have not put the tag on myself because I believe the uploaded should confirm this his/herself. I have stated this on the user's talk page. Harryboyles10:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC) (signed a few hours after I posted)reply
Keep: Image listed by anon. user without explanation given. Since the original image is tagged and not orphaned, an incomplete IFD is not strong enough put the image to deletion. --
Deryck C.13:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)reply
Comment - Image History: The original uploader uploaded it with the deprecated tag {{PD}}.
User:TeunSpaans nominated it for deletion, stating that "Maxfield died in 1966, less than 70 years ago, so copyright has not expeired". The uploader then changed the PD tag to {{PD-US}}. Harryboyles08:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)reply