- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F7 by Explicit ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:03, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
- File:HeneralLuna.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by User:Lonedirewolf ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Actor is still alive, therefore the claim that no replacement is possible is false. KTo288 ( talk) 11:00, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:02, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
- File:Dilbert TV show Alice.png ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Pachisu124 ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Redundant to File:Alice icon.gif, see WP:NFCC#3a. Stefan2 ( talk) 12:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
But that picture I uploaded shows the animated version of her. The GIF only shows what she looks like in the comics. In the TV show, she looks a bit different
-- Pachisu124 ( talk) 22:46, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete: One of these images is supposed to serve as the primary means of identification. For the extra image, there are more stringent requirements. It's appearance needs to be critically discussed. Currently this is not done in the article. – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 22:58, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: How do we critically discuss its appearance? -- Pachisu124 ( talk) 20:23, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- @ Pachisu124: Something like this. If sources don't make such discussion, obviously the article can't either, of course. – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 20:30, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep: We needed a picture of her in the animated series and I couldn't find any on Wikipedia, so I uploaded my own, from Veoh. -- Pachisu124 ( talk) 22:00, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Pachisu124: it would be appreciated if you argued why we need it, and on the basis of the
non-free content policy and guideline. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs)
22:02, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- @ Finnusertop: because the article only has a picture of what she looks like in the comics. The comic and the TV show are separate, so it should be kept. Or maybe I should upload a full body version of her because the article doesn't have any-- Pachisu124 ( talk) 22:08, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
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- Comment: NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!-- Pachisu124 ( talk) 17:14, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Explicit ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:02, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
- File:Dilbert Wally animated.png ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Pachisu124 ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Redundant to File:Wally Dilbert.jpg, see WP:NFCC#3a. Stefan2 ( talk) 12:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F8 by Explicit ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:02, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
- File:Cultural festival.JPG ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Ciclone ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Unused and unexplained. It does not seem like a cultural festival or any kind of festival. Because of lack of explanation, it cannot go to Commons. Codename Lisa ( talk) 16:36, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete Unidentified group of people. Seems to be unencyclopædic. -- Stefan2 ( talk) 13:15, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
- Found a diff in which it was used here, and there is a related file rename request. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 19:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy deleted G7 as Potguru uploaded a black rectangle over the top saying "blanked, at authors request" Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 23:14, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
- File:Twitterdrumpf.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Potguru ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).
Subject in image is Donald Trump, a biographical subject who is still alive. This is a derivative work that fails WP:NFCC#1 and WP:NFC#UUI since the image of Donald Trump is a copyrighted one (assumed copyrighted since the source of the original photo is not posted here, and is thus unknown) and the subject is still alive. Steel1943 ( talk) 17:06, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Subject in image is Donald J Drumpf, a parody account apparently created by John Oliver and/or HBO. I just added a link to the original image [1] on the file page. Subject in image is NOT of Donald Trump, a living person as the dissent contends but a "likeness" of a "parody" creation per my answer below. -- Potguru ( talk) 17:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Moved from File talk:Twitterdrumpf.jpg#CSD discussion- Strong Keep - Have searched high and low and cannot find an image of any quality or type on the subject of the parody character Drumpf. But an image is necessary for the artcile the subject of whom is the parody creation Donald Drumpf. The twitter likeness seems the most reasonable and attribution was given to the source in this derivative work. I contend, because a similar likeness (the actual twitter avatar) has now been seen by more than 28,000 "followers" and is being adopted at a rate of more than 1000 new followers per day (self observed estimate) in addition to exposure in international media that this single clearly attributed image when used in the context of describing the parody character in an encyclopedic setting is most appropriate and (more importantly) the only known image that fits the needed use. -- Potguru ( talk) 16:55, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @ Potguru: ...And how does this address whether or not the original photograph used in this derivative work is free or copyrighted? Steel1943 ( talk) 16:57, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- The image is a derivative work of a copyrighted image which I make the claim we, the humans, have a right to use under the fair right doctrine which allows for images (even copyrighted ones) to be used for educational purposes. I am proposing that for the purpose of illustration of this parody creation we humans are allowed to use this image for education (non-commercial) purposes. Such as in the english speaking version of the article here:
/info/en/?search=Donald_J_Drumpf. I am not convinced any other use of the image is allowed beyond my personal (and non-commercial) use. --
Potguru (
talk)
17:03, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Fortunately
copyright laws are a little more strict than that and not based on "
Because I say so" rational.
Mlpearc (
open channel)
17:20, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Even better is the fair use doctrine. Here is a wonderfully insightful article about it in the
encyclopedia. --
Potguru (
talk)
17:24, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Oh dang, MLpearc, it looks like your gonna need to stop your relentless effort to thwart my putting up an image of drumpf because Examples of fair use in United States copyright law include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, r... I took that right out of the encyclopedia [2] on the subject. --17:26, 4 March 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Potguru ( talk • contribs)
- Even better is the fair use doctrine. Here is a wonderfully insightful article about it in the
encyclopedia. --
Potguru (
talk)
17:24, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Fortunately
copyright laws are a little more strict than that and not based on "
Because I say so" rational.
Mlpearc (
open channel)
17:20, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- The image is a derivative work of a copyrighted image which I make the claim we, the humans, have a right to use under the fair right doctrine which allows for images (even copyrighted ones) to be used for educational purposes. I am proposing that for the purpose of illustration of this parody creation we humans are allowed to use this image for education (non-commercial) purposes. Such as in the english speaking version of the article here:
/info/en/?search=Donald_J_Drumpf. I am not convinced any other use of the image is allowed beyond my personal (and non-commercial) use. --
Potguru (
talk)
17:03, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete: but on different grounds than the nominator. [3] The issue is not WP:NFCC#1 but WP:NFCC#8. The use of this image fails contextual significance on two counts. 1) There is no real or official appearance of "Drumpf", so any one image fails contextual significance in the capacity to identify the subject of the article. I don't think that any one of the iterations of this meme are established enough to pass as the likeness of "Drumpf". An image is not necessary for the reader to comprehend what the article is about. Make notice that John Oliver only used images of Trump in his conventional appearance on the show. 2) Visual aspects of the image itself are not critically discussed either, so this image fails both instances of WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion. Editors above are encouraged to argue on the basis of our non-free content policy rather fair use in US law, because, I quote: "The use of non-free content on Wikipedia is [...] subject to purposely stricter standards than those laid down in U.S. copyright law." ( WP:NFC) – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 18:09, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for that meaningful input. To your comment "Visual aspects of the image itself are not critically discussed either" there were mentions of the Drumpf character in the show while the wispy hair Trump image was being shown. Do you think a derivative or screen capture of that single frame might be a better way to illustrate this? thanks again! --
Potguru (
talk)
19:08, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Potguru: It would shift the argument, but unfortunately only to face serious objections of replaceability (
WP:NFCC#1) that the nominator mounted. If "Drumpf" looks exactly like Trump, then there is no reason to use a non-free image. Using a screencap has even further problems: assuming that the "whispy hair Trump" photograph itself is copyrighted, we'd be dealing with a copyrighted image within a copyrighted image, almost certainly in violation of
WP:FREER. It doesn't eliminate the
WP:NFCC#8 issue either: non-free images are used to either identify a subject or as images whose appearance itself is critically discussed within the article. The latter is presently simply not in the article. Oliver's discussion of "whyspy hair Trump"'s appearance would have to make it into the article first; so far it has been thought of as so irrelevant that no mention of it is made. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs)
20:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- any chance we can use this?
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/705464735353991168/d4eBpkKr.jpg Deepdrumpf is mentioned in the article and it would suffice for my purposes of illustrating a possible drumpf image. Or I could make a collage of a variety of images perhaps? thanks so much! --
Potguru (
talk)
21:05, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Potguru: Currently the visual aspects of that image are not discussed in the article; and it's not a particularly good image to identify the entire "Drumpf" phenomenon, so fails
WP:NFCC#8 on both coutns of
WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion. Collages of non-free images are almost certainly a violation of minimal use
WP:NFCC#3, see
WP:MONTAGE. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs)
22:00, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- thanks! How about this one for now? File:Donald_Trump_-_Caricature.jpg|thumb|center|706x504px|Donald John Trump, Sr., aka Donald Trump, is a celebrity business man and media personality. He is a candidate for president in the 2016 Republican primary. This caricature of Donald Trump was adapted from Creative Commons licensed images from Max Goldberg's flickr photostream -- Potguru ( talk) 22:14, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Potguru: Currently the visual aspects of that image are not discussed in the article; and it's not a particularly good image to identify the entire "Drumpf" phenomenon, so fails
WP:NFCC#8 on both coutns of
WP:NFC#Meeting the contextual significance criterion. Collages of non-free images are almost certainly a violation of minimal use
WP:NFCC#3, see
WP:MONTAGE. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs)
22:00, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- any chance we can use this?
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/705464735353991168/d4eBpkKr.jpg Deepdrumpf is mentioned in the article and it would suffice for my purposes of illustrating a possible drumpf image. Or I could make a collage of a variety of images perhaps? thanks so much! --
Potguru (
talk)
21:05, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Potguru: It would shift the argument, but unfortunately only to face serious objections of replaceability (
WP:NFCC#1) that the nominator mounted. If "Drumpf" looks exactly like Trump, then there is no reason to use a non-free image. Using a screencap has even further problems: assuming that the "whispy hair Trump" photograph itself is copyrighted, we'd be dealing with a copyrighted image within a copyrighted image, almost certainly in violation of
WP:FREER. It doesn't eliminate the
WP:NFCC#8 issue either: non-free images are used to either identify a subject or as images whose appearance itself is critically discussed within the article. The latter is presently simply not in the article. Oliver's discussion of "whyspy hair Trump"'s appearance would have to make it into the article first; so far it has been thought of as so irrelevant that no mention of it is made. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs)
20:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for that meaningful input. To your comment "Visual aspects of the image itself are not critically discussed either" there were mentions of the Drumpf character in the show while the wispy hair Trump image was being shown. Do you think a derivative or screen capture of that single frame might be a better way to illustrate this? thanks again! --
Potguru (
talk)
19:08, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete per NFCC criterion 8, or the violation thereof. There are free images that can be used to describe the subject, and Oliver never used this image in his description of Trump. I don't exactly see the purpose in adding the Twitter avatar as well. epicgenius ( talk) 19:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- please, please, please point me to a good, free, image of the subject. If I could find one I would not need to continue attempting to post a "free" version. Thank you so much! --
Potguru (
talk)
20:23, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Potguru: See
Commons:category:Donald Trump. I think ninety-nine percent of readers know that "Drumpf" is actually a mockery of Trump.
epicgenius (
talk)
21:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- I appreciate that, perhaps as a placeholder (if my image is voted down) but I don't think any of those capture the parody. They all seem to lack a mustache, or little hands, or wispy hair. Is the wispy hair image in the public domain anywhere? Thank you so much. ( I like the little hands in this image
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drumpf/). --
Potguru (
talk)
21:48, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- HAHAHAHA!! Nope. But you can include a screenshot of the YouTube video where Drumpf is mentioned. epicgenius ( talk) 00:56, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- I appreciate that, perhaps as a placeholder (if my image is voted down) but I don't think any of those capture the parody. They all seem to lack a mustache, or little hands, or wispy hair. Is the wispy hair image in the public domain anywhere? Thank you so much. ( I like the little hands in this image
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drumpf/). --
Potguru (
talk)
21:48, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- @
Potguru: See
Commons:category:Donald Trump. I think ninety-nine percent of readers know that "Drumpf" is actually a mockery of Trump.
epicgenius (
talk)
21:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- please, please, please point me to a good, free, image of the subject. If I could find one I would not need to continue attempting to post a "free" version. Thank you so much! --
Potguru (
talk)
20:23, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete - this picture originated from a Twitter account not connected to John Oliver, the man who popularized 'Drumpf'. We are just getting the avatar of some random Twitter user, not one account maintained by Oliver or his representatives. In that case anyone, even me, could create some random Twitter account on Drumpf and get our avatars featured here regardless of copyright? That's just ridiculous to violate copyright in this manner. This picture is not officially Drumpf. starship .paint ~ KO 22:59, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- Oliver mentioned the twitter account in the show (verifying)... I'm fairly certain the account is controlled by the company although I do not understand how the account shows an origination date of 2013. --
Potguru (
talk)
23:41, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
- If you cannot provide a source of Oliver or his company claiming to own and use the account, then no talk. The account shows an origination date of 2013 because it's not related to Oliver, and has been parodying Trump since 2013. It has been tweeting in in 2013, 2014 and 2015. It seems like WP:V is not your strong suit. You, Potguru, added unsourced claims that the Twitter account tweeted thousands of times in just a few short days. Do you know what you are doing? starship .paint ~ KO 02:14, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
- Oliver mentioned the twitter account in the show (verifying)... I'm fairly certain the account is controlled by the company although I do not understand how the account shows an origination date of 2013. --
Potguru (
talk)
23:41, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/510452555030077440/Cogylk6_.jpeg
- ^ Fair_use
- ^ This is obviously not used to portray Donald Trump in his normal appearance, so using any free picture of Trump as a free alternative is not possible. This case is very much reminiscent to using screencaps of films to portray the characters that are played by actors who are alive, when there is a difference in appearance. Use like that is explicitly allowed per WP:NFLISTS§5.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.