This article is about a song recorded by American
Tejano music singer
Selena for her last fully recorded album before she was
shot and killed a year later. This song holds very dear to me as it brings back nostalgic memories of my mother while growing up. I've made a major overhaul a few months ago and updated the article and subsequently asked the GOCE to copy-edit it. After that, I re-read the article a few times in the weeks following the c/e to make sure the article is indeed ready to be nominated at FAC. I hope you guys enjoy reading the article as much as I had writing it. Best –
jona✉19:02, 1 June 2016 (UTC)reply
and produced by Selena's brother-producer -> ,while production was handled by Selena's brother and producer
Done.
follows the ranchera storyline of a woman in agony after the end of a relationship. -> portrays the ranchera storyline of a woman in agony following the end of a relationship.
her third successive number-one song -> remaining her ...
It wasn't her last number one song on the chart, the current further shows the singer's US number-one streak during her peak and if I add "remaining", would imply that this single was her last number one.
and became the most successful U.S. Latin single of 1995 -> with it becoming the most...
Done.
ranked the ninth-best Tejano recording -> who ranked it?
Done.
The music video -> An accompanying music video
Done.
have since recorded -> have since recorded cover versions
Done.
Tito Nieves, and the Mexican pop -> Tito Nieves and Mexican pop
Done.
and Nieves' version peaked at number seven on the U.S. Tropical Songs chart -> while Nieves' version charted at number seven on the US Tropical Songs chart
Done.
Inspiration, writing and production
a mariachi -> a mariachi track
Done.
The group -> Following this, the group
Done.
interview Selena's -> interview, Selena's
Done.
Music, theme and lyrics
with ranchera and flamenco influences -> ,incorporating ranchera and flamenco influences into its sound
Done.
at a moderate -> at moderate
The a is needed as it wouldn't make any sense to the reader to say "and moves at moderate 95 beats per minute".
"desperate", "sentimental" -> "desperate" and "sentimental"
Done.
and music critics -> while music critics
Done.
Critical reception and performance
Rename section into "Critical reception and impact"
Done.
and Paul Verna -> while Paul Verna
Done.
fans and are Spanish-language counterparts -> fans, with them being Spanish...
If I add that, it would read as if the fans were Spanish-language counterparts rather than the songs in question.
Chart performance
Rename section into "Commercial performance"
Done.
For the aspect, it would be better if you would unlink all the red links
Done.
Fix for the entire article: U.S -> US
Done.
Music video
The music video -> An accompanying music video; unlink "music video"
Done.
Credits and personnel
Credits adapted from Amor Prohibido liner notes. -> Credits adapted from the liner notes of Amor Amor Prohibido
File:No_Me_Queda_Mas.ogg: FUR for this article should be expanded
File:Selena_No_Me_Queda_Mas.jpg: FUR does not adequately explained why it is necessary to include this image - what information is it intended to convey? Needs expansion.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
02:00, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Nikkimaria: I added the album cover FUR template to the cover art that provides a more understanding than the previous method used, while also expanding the sound file with additional information that may had been missing. Thanks again for your comments –
jona✉12:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Nikkimaria: I took another jab at it and tried it in my own words, I hope that my explanation for the purpose of the cover art has fully satisfied your concerns. Thanks –
jona✉14:06, 23 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Sorry about that :/ I have removed the image and tagged it orphaned for deletion as it does not convey any necessary information the reader can gather without reading the article; the caption was addressing the singer's dress which did not provide any value to reader. –
jona✉18:12, 23 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Comments from EditorE
OK. The article looks pretty good from a quick scan through, but after looking at a few parts of it a little more, I have a few comments:
I'm not so fond of how the Billboard.biz citations are formatted. Billboard.biz is still Billboard magazine, and it is published by Prometheus Global Media. The publisher for these sources are missing in the cites, and should be added. Billboard.biz should also be changed to Billboard.biz.
Done
The Alt description for the cover is decent, but not perfect. It should include a mention or the background and that the photo Selena is in is covered by a frame and is titled.
editorEهեইдအ😎22:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Done
I'm also gonna have to be picky with the English, since this is, after, a FA nomination. Starting with the lead, you need to put the period in the quote. In this case, its the quote of "nothing but happiness"
Done
"children's singing competition" Did the source specify which competition? If it did, the name of the competition should be added.
Added
The infoboxes and charts lists for two of the cover versions of the song are unnecessary. Since there isn't a lot of chart peaks that the cover versions, they should be removed and any bit of commericial performance info should be handled by the prose. The subsections are also unneeded in this case, given that there's not a lot of info on both covers.
Done
The year-end and all-time chart lists needs to be scoped.
"You should mix up how you refer to the song. "No Me Queda Mas" appears so many times in the lead (7 times) it becomes redundant. Especially when it's used in two sentences back to back. Ex: "the song", "it", etc.
Done
"Be consistent on how you refer to the Billboard charts. For the Tropical Songs chart you have it as "US Tropical Songs" but the Regional Mexican Airplay doesn't have the US in front of it.
Done
Inspiration, writing and production
The info box says the song is a mariachi song, but this section claims the song was meant to be a mariachi song, so is it a mariachi song or not? The source makes it seem like it isn't.
The plan was for it not be a mariachi song, I am only going by what the critics wrote and they called it a mariachi track; despite the company's efforts to have it "sweetin" by Silvetti. –
jona✉14:10, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Critical reception and impact
Link
Bidi Bidi Bom Bom, as it's the first time it's used in prose and delink it the second time it is used. (I took care of this.)
Thank you =)
Commerical performance
Stay consistent with how you refer to the billboard charts. Is it Hot Latin Tracks or Hot Latin Songs? In the lead, you use Hot Latin Songs. In this section you use Hot Latin Tracks, and later in this section you use Hot Latin Songs.
Done
Cover versions
You should arrange these in chronological order. You go from Archuleta performing it in 2010 to someone recording it in 2005.
Done
When did Graciela Beltran record her's? I'm guessing 2003 based on the source's date.
Done
You need to add that Lopez performed the tribute at the 2015 Billboard Latin Music Awards. Also, include its chart performance.
Done
Palomo's chart performance is confusing. The lead says the song reached number six on the Regional Mexican Airplay but this section says "it reached number eight." Also, what chart did it peak at number 19 on?
The year-end chart in 2011 is not an "all time charts". It's just Billboard ranking the songs in the past 25 years to celebrate the Hot Latin Songs anniversary.
Categories such as "Tejano music songs" and "American Latin music songs" are already listed on "Selena songs". Why is needed here?
Removed
"Flamenco songs" isn't really appropriate since it's listed as an influence and not as a genre. *Remove the "procession and succession" box as they aren't appropriate for song articles since 2010.
Done
It's an otherwise well-written article from my point of view. Just fix those issues and I'll be glad to give my support!
Erick (
talk)
16:28, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Support: Great work with this! It is a very comprehensive and well-written article. This definitely deserves FA status.
Aoba47 (
talk)
05:25, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comments from Prism
is a song recorded by American recording artist Selena for her fourth studio album, Amor Prohibido (1994). → is a song by American recording artist Selena from her [...]
while production was handled by Selena's brother-producer Since production is already mentioned, is producer really needed? Plus, I'm almost sure the term you used doesn't exist.
Avoid "with verb[ing]" constructions such as with the singer wishing her former lover and his new partner "nothing but happiness." Can "nothing but happiness" be paraphrased?
I'm confused. Reading
Billboard I understood that the original version was remixed for commercial purposes, while here it says that there was never an "original" version.
The "original" version was released during the early distribution of Amor Prohibido while the "sweeten" version replaced it
a few months later; where the front-cover reads "includes new version" of No Me Queda Más. –
jona✉18:43, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
This nom has been open a long time, @
EditorE and
Prism: do you have any further comments?
It's been several years since the nominator's last FA so I'd like to see a spotcheck of sources for accurate use and avoidance of close paraphrasing -- unless one of the reviewers above has done so and is prepared to clearly sign off on it, if not you can list a request at the top of
WT:FAC.
Consistent formatting and sufficient details – The formatting is consistent across the board.
Reliable sources (books, academic journals, expert websites) – All the sources are reliable. I just have one question about “El Nuevo Diario”. Could you please clarify the site’s background and expertise? It looks reliable and credible, but I just want to double-check (especially at this level).
According to their
about me page, they consider themselves to be a "commercial company" whose articles are targeted to the culture and activity of the Dominican Republic and their people inside the island and elsewhere worldwide. They have also published books and magazines under their publishing company. –
jona✉00:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Thorough referencing – Everything is thoroughly cited. The only sections unreferenced are the parts about the synopsis of the music video, which do not require citations.
To the best of my knowledge, there is not any close paraphrasing or any improper use of sources or sourced material
Thanks
Aoba for source review and spotcheck. Could I ask you to list the citations you checked for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing? It's something that many spot-checkers do; I ask because I just checked a couple at random, FN22 and FN23 for the statement ""No Me Queda Más" was praised by music critics, who considered it one of Selena's most successful singles", and both seemed to relate to a performance by Jennifer Lopez without clearly referring to the success of the single. Cheers,
Ian Rose (
talk)
14:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Ian Rose: FN#22 explicitly says "Selena's hits "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom," "Como La Flor," "I Could Fall in Love," and "No Me Queda Mas." while FN#23 said it is her "most beloved hits", but I see what you're saying. A google search brings up a
biography book on Lopez where the author said the song became "an instant classic", Ilan Stavans (who is sourced in the composition section of the article)
named it a "hit", but besides
a speculative assumption there are no other mention of the single being one of her most successful (other than the ranks by music critics). –
jona✉15:08, 12 August 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Ian Rose: I will do a thorough check of the sources for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing, and I will post any suggestions/comments/questions by the end of today. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, and I apologize if I made any mistakes.
Aoba47 (
talk)
15:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)reply
@
AJona1992:@
Ian Rose: I apologize for the delay. I have listed my comments below:
Reference 65 (
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/hillary-clinton-abuela-factor-n485226) is used to support that Clinton's use of Selena's music was well received, but according to the source, this decision was criticized with the emergence of hashtags like "Hispandering" and "Not My Abuela" so I would recommend revising this. I might add something along the lines about a mixed reaction to Clinton's attempt to appeal to Latino voters through Selena's music.
These are the only two issues I could find while checking through the sources. I was unable to access the sources that require subscriptions, but I will go on good faith with those few sources.
Aoba47 (
talk)
21:46, 12 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The link works correctly now. I am not sure why I kept getting a different one earlier. I have struck out my comment as you addressed that as well.
@
AJona1992:@
Ian Rose: Everything looks good, and the two points I brought up were addressed and corrected where necessary. I did not find any evidence of close paraphrasing and the sources are accurately used in the article.
Aoba47 (
talk)
21:39, 13 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Coord notes (2)
Hi guys, just glancing at the Critical reception and impact section again, I think polishing is needed before we consider promoting the article:
"No Me Queda Más" was praised by music critics, who considered it a hit single for Selena. -- I don't think critics "consider" something a hit, it is or it isn't, and that should be discussed in the Commercial performance section anyway.
You use the word "calling" five times in five sentences -- more variation of expression is needed. @
Mike Christie: I think you've recently written an essay on "critical reception" sections, would you mind having a look at this one and either CE or offer suggestions for improvement (feel free to look over the whole article, this just caught my eye)...
I have looked at the section once more and tried polishing it some more, hope it is looking better for the both of you and is up to FA standards. –
jona✉15:20, 20 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Comments from Mike Christie
Ajona1992, take a look at
this essay, which is what Ian was referring to; it's just my opinion and not any kind of Wikipedia style guide, but I hope you will find it useful. I've taken an initial look at the reception section in this article and I agree with Ian that it could be improved. Here are some thoughts.
First, you have several sentences at the end about awards and top lists; those could be usefully split off into a small paragraph about the awards, with an introductory sentence such as '"No Me Queda Más" received several awards and accolades.' I think those last few sentences are fine.
Here are the key words from the quotes (other than the long one from Burr): "romantic", "popular", "instant classic", "evocative", "bonafide hit", "one of Amor Prohibido's biggest hits", "key hit", "world music flourishes". Four of these ("romantic", "popular", "evocative", and "world music flourishes") are descriptions of the song, and the others describe its success. How about restructuring the section as follows?
Positive comments about the song
The song was a hit from Amor Prohibido
It received several awards and accolades
Here's a draft; how does this look?
The song was well-received, with reviewers describing it as "evocative", "romantic", and "bittersweet"; Quintanilla's use of "world-music flourishes" on the song was noted approvingly by Michael Clark. Ramiro Burr felt that the lyrics, about "finding the strength to walk away", evoked "the pain of love and the tone of redemption". The song became an "instant classic", according to Roger Burns, writing in Icons of Latino America. Other reviewers agreed that it was one of Amor Prohibido's most successful singles releases, with Lisa Leal of KVTV commenting that the song is a Spanish-language counterpart of the Beatles' 1965 single, "Yesterday", in fan popularity.
"No Me Queda Más" received several awards and accolades. It was the Song of the Year at the 1995 Broadcast Music Awards, while Vela received the Songwriter of the Year award in 1996. Its video was honored Music Video of the Year at the 1995 Billboard Latin Music Awards. "No Me Queda Más" was ranked as the ninth-best Tejano song of all time on Ramiro Burr's top-ten list. It has appeared on several critics' "best Selena songs" lists, including BuzzFeed (at number one), Latino Post (number four), and Latina (number five).
I've cut specific mention of some of the reviewers, because I don't think the reader really needs to see them inline; the footnotes can give the details. I compressed several points ("key hit", "one of the biggest hits" and "bonafide hit") into a single sentence without direct quotes, as I don't think the quotes were adding anything that we can't say with paraphrases.
Are Michael Clark and Ramiro Burr worth naming? They both wrote in the same newspaper, I gather, so perhaps we should just give the name of the paper rather than their name?
I've implemented the draft into the article, Ramiro Burr is a well-known Latin music critic than Michael Clark who happened to just write an article on the singer. I found another comment on the song by a reviewer on the San Antonio Current where one said it was "overwhelming [sad]", but after reading your essay and re-reading the draft, it's best to leave it out of it since we already have a laundry list of critics who basically said the same thing about its lyrics in the composition section. There is also a MAC cosmetics line bearing the songs name but I found it to be too promotional and left it out of the article. –
jona✉17:21, 20 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Tks Mike, I think that'll do, the reception section was the main thing that seemed to need more work, and it looks greatly improved now -- tks also Ajona of course. One last thing though: in the Music section, I believe we should be attributing inline the quotes in the sentence Selena sings the song "in a low, sober voice", in a "desperate" and "sentimental" way. In the rest of the paragraph we give names or at least the generic "music critics" as the sources for descriptive quotes, should do the same here. Cheers,
Ian Rose (
talk)
10:48, 21 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Tks Jona. Sorry, my last glance through raised another query in my mind: critics have described "No Me Queda Más"' lyrics as "torchy", "mournful", "piercing" and "heartbreaking" -- I can imagine lyrics (i.e. the words of the song) as well as vocals being described as "torchy", "mournful" or "heartbreaking", but lyrics being described as "piercing" sounds a little odd. Is it really the lyrics that all these critics refer to, or is it in fact the vocals, or a mixture? If a mixture, perhaps the simplest solution is to just drop the word "lyrics" from the sentence, and it will make sense. Cheers,
Ian Rose (
talk)
13:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Tks for that link -- "piercing ballad" sounds to me like a description of the song as a whole, not the lyrics alone, so my suggestion (unless anyone has a contrary opinion) would be dropping "' lyrics" from the sentence I quoted and then you have all the bases covered and nothing jars. Cheers,
Ian Rose (
talk)
22:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC)reply