I am nominating this for featured article because I feel that this article meets all requirements to become a featured article. Several years and hard research and dedication have gone into this article and I would like to get this through the "final" phase. Thank you.
Lordelliott (
talk)
02:58, 7 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Siuenti says
It seems to justify the "Goddess of Pop" appellation by going out and looking for sources which call her that and adding as many as possible. Not sure that's appropriate.
Siuenti (
씨유엔티)
03:00, 11 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I think this might be arguing the case from primary sources, when I'm fairly sure you should be looking for neutral and authoritative secondary source(s) which say she is "known as" such. Compare a google news search for "known as the king of pop"
Siuenti (
씨유엔티)
05:16, 11 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I was unable to find an authoritative secondary source stating exactly that she is "known as the Goddess of Pop". However, there are numerous reliable sources such as
CNN, Time, Forbes, Money, The New York Times and Billboard calling her "the Goddess of Pop", which could easily support that she is "commonly/often referred to by the media as the Goddess of Pop" instead of "known as", which is a much stronger claim. Do you think we should remove that sentence anyway?
Lordelliott (
talk)
06:12, 11 May 2017 (UTC)reply
If her Armenian-ness was enough to justify a place in the lede sentence it would be mentioned somewhere else in the lede, but it isn't. Put the Armenian in (early) Life and Career.
Siuenti (
씨유엔티)
03:05, 11 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Sorry I wasn't clear, by "Armenian" I mean "Armenian: Սարգիսեան [sɑɾkʰəsˈjɑn]". Looks like you can link to en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Սարգսյան and I would also like a little superscript question mark ?link to
Armenian_alphabet so I can try to figure out what letter does what.
There isn't. In fact, although her political views have attracted much media attention, she's not exactly known for it. Corrected to: "Over the years, Cher's political views have attracted media attention, and she has been an outspoken critic of the conservative movement."
Lordelliott (
talk)
04:00, 11 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Information in this quote: "By the end of 1967, they had sold 40 million records worldwide and had become, according to Time magazine's Ginia Bellafante, rock's "it" couple.[36]" could provide good context and notability in the lead.
Siuenti (
씨유엔티)
05:32, 11 May 2017 (UTC) (just a suggestion)reply
I found
this one from
CNN: "The singer's 1998 comeback track marked the first prominent use of a technology called 'Auto-Tune', a pitch correcting software that has since changed the music industry. Auto-Tune alters the pitch of a singing voice to make everyone sound perfectly in tune. When used properly, it's subtle enough that it can't be detected. But Cher's producers played with the idea of cranking it up to 11, creating the now-familiar effect that is part human synthesizer, part robotic voice." I think "as a deliberate creative effect" pretty sums up what the article says: that the use of Auto-Tune on "Believe" was intentionally exaggerated ("deliberate") to create the robotic sound on her voice ("creative effect"), rather than correcting it. What do you think?
Lordelliott (
talk)
12:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Done, but I absolutely have no idea what to put in the title and description of the second sample (without Auto-Tune). Could you help me with this?
Lordelliott (
talk)
06:52, 29 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Now it says "for comparison this bit has no auto-tune" or something like that, which I'm happy with. Actually I didn't mean a sample of the same words, but in fact that was a great idea. Do we know how many samples we can squeeze in according to
fair use? I'd like one for maybe Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves or I Got You Babe, something early and big, demonstrating the contralto described. It would hardly do her sales any harm (
Fair_use#4._Effect_upon_work.27s_value)
Siuenti (
씨유엔티)
07:19, 29 May 2017 (UTC)reply
You got it. I have bundled the "Music" and "Voice" sections for page layout purposes (the "Gypsys" sample would make the audio box too long and it would not fit in the section) and because we already talk about her voice during the "Music" section. Do you think it's fine?
Lordelliott (
talk)
14:52, 31 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Heh, that is what appears to be a
WP:closely worded paraphrase and definitely requires attribution - you may as well just quote them. Unless of course the Wikipedia article came first and Billboard are closely paraphrasing Wikipedia instead...my head hurts.
Siuenti (
씨유엔티)
23:38, 25 May 2017 (UTC)reply
A lot of good work has gone on here so congratulations. Just a few points:
There are currently some tags put on the lede. I did not put them there, but I would concur with their general sentiment. This is something that needs to be dealt with.
Midnightblueowl (
talk)
21:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I think that we need to mention a little of Cher's early life in the lede. A short sentence about her place of birth and ethnically mixed background might suffice. See for instance the GA-rated
Angela Lansbury article as an example of what I am talking about.
Midnightblueowl (
talk)
21:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)reply
There are quite a few websites cited but they are not archived. That would be a good step to take to prevent them from succumbing to link rot.
Midnightblueowl (
talk)
21:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)reply
The lede seems to place a particular emphasis on what might be regarded as significant achievements ("By the end of 1967, they had sold 40 million records worldwide", "her first million-seller song", "watched by over 30 million viewers weekly", "earned $300,000 a week for her 1980–82 residency show", "reached a new commercial peak in 1998" etc). This results in it reading a little bit like an advert rather than an encyclopaedia entry.
Midnightblueowl (
talk)
15:43, 2 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Comments –
Grammar glitch in the lead: "becoming one of the best-selling music artists in the music history." Remove "the music" from the end of this sentence.
1946–1961: Early life: Minor, but according to the
Manual of Style USA should be either U.S. or US instead.
1965–1967: There's double punctuation at the end of "behind the Beatles' Help!." In this case, just use the exclamation point in the album title as abbreviation; you shouldn't add anything else.
Giants2008 (
Talk)
21:43, 10 June 2017 (UTC)reply
Coord note -- this review has been open almost six weeks since its belated transclusion on 10 May without approaching consensus to promote (I note the nominator hasn't been active for some time either), so I'll be archiving shortly. Cheers,
Ian Rose (
talk)
08:55, 19 June 2017 (UTC)reply