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Jack Wilshere (
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AfD)
He is part of the arsenal fc first team so a profile should be allowed to be put up of him on wikipedia he has been given a shirt number which can be confirmed on
http://www.arsenal.com/player.asp?thisNav=first+team&plid=86459&clid=4421&cpid=703
Jackwilshere19 (
talk)
23:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - arsenal.com link doesn't work by the way.......... --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
18:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - there is a relevant discussion
here.--
PhilKnight (
talk)
23:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Keep deleted - still fails
WP:ATHLETE as not having played a competitive first team game. Arsenal make wide use of their squad in, for example, the Carling Cup, so it is significant that he hasn't played a competitive match, yet.
Smile a While (
talk)
17:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - it is remarkable that a 16 year old player should be so close to the first team squad in the first place, so I don't really find it surprising that Wenger didn't give him his debut as a 15 year old in the Carling Cup last season. Even Cesc Fabregas had to wait until he was 16 to make his debut. Anyway, there is of course no policy argument to object to this deletion but from one football fan to another, this kid will be an England international before he is 20 years old, I guarantee you.
ugen64 (
talk)
16:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Shouldn't be too long before he plays a first-team game then, at which point he can have an article no questions asked. But at the present time there is no reasonable reason to undelete the article --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
18:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Endorse deletion The reason his article was deleted was that he has never played in a fully professional league. This has not changed since the AfD debate. How about waiting until he actually makes his professional debut?
пﮟოьεԻ
5
7
17:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - agree with Number 57, after his professional debut the article can be restored.
PhilKnight (
talk)
19:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Endorse deletion. Deletion Review is a venue to point out how the deletion process has not been followed. It is not a venue to present new arguments, or repeat old ones, that belong in an AFD.
Stifle (
talk)
11:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Endorse deletion -
User:Jackwilshere19 is just re-hashing arguments presented ad nauseam at AfDs on youth team players. The player in question did not then and still does not now satisfy
WP:N,
WP:ATHLETE or even
WP:FOOTYN and there is no valid reason to open a DRV at this time --
ChrisTheDude (
talk)
13:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Endorse deletion The deletion at AfD was correct and the reason for deletion, that the subject does meet
WP:Athlete, has not been addressed, that is, he still does not meet
WP:Athlete. --
Malcolmxl5 (
talk)
19:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Overturn. The AfD appears to have focused on the strict definition of
WP:ATHLETE rather than considering
WP:N. Since the AfD closed on July 27th, this kid has got major media coverage. He even got headlines in my local newspaper, thousands of miles away
[3] that notes "Premier League club Arsenal has included 16-year-old midfielder Jack Wilshere in its first-team squad for the new season". In addition to the Toronto Sun, he has had coverage by
Canadian Press,
Setana Sports "one of England’s most talked-about teenagers", the
Internation Herald Tribune where Wegner is quoted as "He looks strong enough and he is not fazed by the big games", the
Daily Mail "rated highly by Sir Trevor Brooking, the FA's director of football development, and a first-team debutant in the Gunners' pre-season games.", the
Malaysia Star, and
hundreds of other media references in the last month alone.
Nfitz (
talk)
17:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Overturn
WP:ATHLETE is an inclusion criteria, it does not exclude individuals who do not satisfy the specifications. Wilshere satisfies
WP:N, having had received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.
Alansohn (
talk)
00:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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- The problem with
WP:N is that it is a totally unrealistic barometer of notabilty for football players. Football recieves blanket media coverage, to the extent that semi-professional players playing at the fifth level can have more coverage than heads of state. Ergo
WP:ATHLETE is necessary to tease out the truly notable players. If this kid leaves the club and never makes a first team appearance, will he be notable for playing in a couple of pre-season friendly matches?
пﮟოьεԻ
5
7
10:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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- While you may protest about
WP:N in general, and
Wikipedia:Notability (people) (of which
WP:ATHLETE is a subcomponent), it is the official guideline on the subject.
Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Additional criteria specifies that "A person is generally notable if they meet any of the following standards. Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included; conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included. Should a person fail to meet these additional criteria, they may still be notable under WP:N." WP:ATHLETE is intended to avoid disruptive arguments about notability of individuals who pass an agreed upon standard; it most emphatically does not exclude articles for individuals who don't meet it. WP:ATHLETE is a great (albeit imperfect) argument for retention; on its own it is an invalid argument for deletion. The whole concept of notability is based on media coverage, not our personal biases. Saying that Wilshere and other athletes receive "blanket media coverage" is the exact evidence we're looking for to support notability.
Alansohn (
talk)
14:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Please read all the quote you gave yourself. It also says that "conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included". That is a guideline but not mandatory either way. -
Nabla (
talk)
18:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Overturn. He was brought on the trip to the Netherlands for the club's match against FC Twente, but was an unused substitute. I have created an outline of a potential article at
User:VincentValentine29/Sandbox.
Vincent
Valentine
13:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Comment - there is another sandbox version
here.--
PhilKnight (
talk)
13:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Overturn And I must say that I am shocked by several of the opinions expressed here. Subject-specific supplemental notability guidelines are intended as a second catchment that articles which can not clearly pass WP:N can be kept under. They are intended to be used for subjects for which definite consensus has determined are frequently unable to pass the vague overall notability guideline, but are surely notable. They are by no means intended as an additional hurdle that an otherwise notable subject must also pass, in order for its article to be retained. To suggest that WP:Athlete can be used to delete an article on the basis of notability when the article clearly passes WP:N is simply an obnoxious twist-up of the rules.
Jerry
talk ¤
count/logs
00:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
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