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Nominator's rationale: I suggest renaming the category 'Palestinians' to 'Palestinian Arabs' to make a clearer distinction between nationality and ethnicity categories. The term 'Palestinians' can be ambiguous as it refers to both. By using the term 'Palestinian Arabs', we can better differentiate between the two.
Nagsb (
talk)
22:09, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose — Arabs are from Arabia. Palestinians are from Palestine. Also, Lebanese are from Lebanon and Egyptians are from Egypt. Genetics confirms it. That many speak a variant of Arabic-language is a result of historical conquest. Remember, Scots are not English. Also, Americans are not English and Australians are not English. That they mostly speak a variant of English-language is a result of historical conquest. William Allen Simpson (
talk)
05:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
William Allen Simpson for this meaning of the term Palestinians, Palestinians are from Palestine, i. e. nationals of the State of Palestine, we have
Category:Palestinian people. This category is for another meaning - for one specific ethnic group in the State of Palestine. This is exactly the confusion I was refering to.
Nagsb (
talk)
07:03, 23 April 2023 (UTC)reply
The naming is terrible. These really need to be split between people and topics.
There is no consistency between "Israeli Arab" and "Arab Israeli". Same with Bedouins and Druze.
Looking at the various subcategories, these are mixtures of Arabic-language with semitic peoples, not Arabs from Arabia per se. Apparently Egyptians call Bedouins "Arabs", but mean "nomads". The word "arab" doesn't even mean the same thing.
Oppose nomination unless there is clear evidence that this is the common name for a specific group of people. In fact, if such evidence is available, it would be recommendable to write an article about the topic first.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:30, 23 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kievan Rus' people
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Comment — I'd looked very carefully at exactly what had been agreed, since not everybody updated their older comments. This was mentioned, but the re-parent part of the nomination was never fixed. William Allen Simpson (
talk)
05:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:16th-century Austrian literature
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Nominator's rationale:delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Merging is not needed, the subcategory is already under appropriate parents.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Support For the 16th-century Category, why is the (sole) poet
Heinrich Vogtherr even categorised as Austrian? He only spent the last 2 years of his life there. He was a German national and arguably part of the HRE for all of his life.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
20:42, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Tornadoes by country
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Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus
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I keep looking at this category tree and I can't make sense of it, especially the relationship between the terms 'nobles/nobility', 'princes of/in', 'royalty', and 'rulers of'. We are doing many simultaneous CfRs on Kievan Rus', all of which I support individually, but I'm kind of losing the bigger picture. I guess I'll just have to wait for the dust to settle. I think I'll wait with nominating more until the present ones have been completed.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
20:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Neutral as page creator. I created this due to it needing to be split from the noble titles category, and at the time there were a couple of subcategories which appear to have since been reorganised. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
01:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Yes, that was part of the reason why I wanted to wait for the dust to settle. But when both of you pressed forward, I decided to go ahead and try to construct a proper category tree. And now I'm the one running too far ahead and not waiting for the dust to settle (whahaha!). Oh well. I'm sure we will all figure this out. I've learnt to cooperate with you for several months now, we are getting better at it.
Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
00:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Suggested category tree for People from Kievan Rus'
@
Marcocapelle,
William Allen Simpson,
Laurel Lodged,
Fayenatic london,
Paul 012, and
Mzajac: please let me know what you think. I hope this makes clear why I couldn't make sense of the current category tree, which not only needs to have a couple of renamings and re-parentings, but also has
Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus and
Category:Princes in Rus' trying to do multiple jobs at once, and therefore failing at them. This is quite a complicated question to solve (which is why I wanted to wait for the dust to settle), but I think that now, using the existing (imperfect) examples, this is the most reasonable proposal I can currently offer. (Using indent seemed the best way to visualise this, please let me know if that's an issue). I hope we can find solutions to the remaining questions I have. Thanks in advance, and cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
23:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
I’m not familiar with all of these, but to me plural Princes of Kievan Rus sounds like a set of individuals, while singular Prince of Kievan Rus is a topic about the title. —MichaelZ.23:40, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment — While it seems reasonable, my preference is that these had been nominated separately, instead of trying to cram too much general discussion into one place. You are not all computer or information scientists, but I've tried to give examples of careful nominations updating one part of tree at a time (usually bottom up instead of top down). William Allen Simpson (
talk)
05:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Yes, of course. I'm not saying we should agree on every part of this proposal right now, I'm just suggesting a general direction in which we could take this category tree. Each of them will still have to be discussed on a case-by-case basis (I've not nominated anything new).
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Category:Heads of State of Estonia
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Nominator's rationale:WP:C2D main article
State Elder of Estonia, which I moved per
Talk:State Elder of Estonia#Move suggestion that nobody had acted upon for 15 years, and because State Elder was used way more often in the main article itself than Head of State, and because Wikipedians don't see that 'Heads of State of Estonia' is a title rather than a position (a mistake I initially also made, because the only difference is that State is written with a capital S) by making
Category:Presidents of Estonia a subcategory instead of a sibling. State Elder / Head of State and President are both titles for the position of a head of state. On an etymological note,
en:wikt:vanem#Estonian means (1) parent (2) elder, leader, chieftain,
en:wikt:riik (genitive riigi) means (1) state, country, polity (2) government (mostly the Estonian government), so rather than "Head of State", it also makes more sense to translate Riigivanem as "State Elder" (or "State Parent"; note that "elders" in English originally meant "parents" or "ancestors", just like en:wikt:Eltern in German and en:wikt:ouders in Dutch still do). There is no Estonian equivalent meaning for "head" in vanem. Finally, see
Elder (administrative title), where the meaning of elder in the sense of "older" or "oldest" is used, and vanem is also translated as "State Elder".
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
05:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
PS: I intend to CfR
Category:Rulers of Estonia for a rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia (lowercase s) hereafter in order to correct the category trees, which are currently a mess exactly because people have been mistaking this category (failing to spot the capital S) for a generic function rather than a historic title that only existed between 1920 and 1937 and is now obsolete. (The renamed category might also include
Category:Dukes of Estonia). But, one step at a time. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
06:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
For procedural purposes, that might actually be a much better idea, yes. Thanks! Should we continue this CfR or withdraw it, just create that subcat, and then nom Rulers for downmerge?
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
06:15, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Oceanian rulers
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For merging we do not have to wait per se. If the other discussion closes as rename earlier than this discussion we can simply adapt the target here. If not, the merged
Category:Oceanian monarchs should be nominated for renaming separately.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
09:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:South American rulers
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Category:Empresses and imperial consorts of Ethiopia
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Rename, remove two parents, and purge one article, it is more to the point to distinguish monarchs from consorts than to distinguish men royalty from women royalty.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
10:24, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Radio stations licensed before 1923 and still broadcasting
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Delete per nom. I suspect it may have something to do with copyright issues, as 1923 is significant in the history of U.S. copyright law, but it still doesn't seem to be a useful cat here. Perhaps it would be for Commons for PD purposes, but I don't know enough about it.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
03:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Plants used in Ayurveda
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Ayurveda is an alternative medicine system originating in India that recommends diets and herbs for health.
Liquorice,
Long pepper and
Myrrh mention this association in passing while
Aloe,
Alfalfa and
Rose don't mention it at all. The
Clove article says that spice is used in pumpkin pies, curries, baked hams and cigarettes but we don't have categories for those uses because it would create clutter at the bottom of the article. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)reply
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