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Nominator's rationale: The article for these individuals is
Manga artist and all of the other categories related to them are
Category:Manga artists or a stem of that. Why should this one be any different just because it lists navigational boxes instead of articles?
Link20XX (
talk)
23:42, 24 October 2021 (UTC)reply
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Delete -- Only the subcategory should exist. However this needs
Shaurya Chakra to be made its main article. As I read it, this is an award at a level that passes the OCAWARD test, so that the right solution would not be listify and delete, but the list in the main article looks as if it needs a lot of links to be made to recipients who have articles.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
16:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Star Plus original programming
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Category:Wikipedians who like the Beatles
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Category:2023 Summer Youth Olympics
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Category:2022 Summer Youth Olympics
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Category:2021 Women's Cricket World Cup
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Comment + delete IIRC, this was one of a plethora of cricket events postponed due to the pandemic, so it made sense (at the time) to redirect a load of stuff, including categories. No issue with this being deleted - don't know if speedy applies here. LugnutsFire Walk with Me11:38, 24 October 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Murder victims by nationality
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Nominator's rationale:Victims is a
loaded word, and these categories can be more neutrally and no less precisely named as Murdered Fooian people. This would make the category scope clear, while avoiding concerns of whether the categories are implying a status of victimhood or something like that. It would also agree better with subtrees
Category:Assassinated people by nationality (which isn't "Assassination victims") and
Category:Murdered children (not "Child murder victims"). The parent
Category:Murder victims and others in that tree should probably be eventually dealt with, but they are not part of this discussion. This tree was previously
CfDed in 2011, but the reason given then was that it was ambiguous, and the proposal ended in no consensus. That is not the rationale for this proposal.
Paul_012 (
talk)
18:56, 2 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Strong agree – This is a sensible proposal. One convenient feature of the current naming format over the suggested change is that typing Foobian murder into HotCat autosuggests Foobian murderers and Foobian murder victims. The suggested format will break this neighborship between murderer categories and murdered categories in autosuggestions, but the advantages listed by Paul_012 far outweigh this minor downside. --
Iketsi (
talk)
02:19, 3 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Paul 012: I
WP:BOLDly changed the proposed names, 'Murdered Ancient Macedonian people' and 'Murdered Ancient Roman people' to 'Murdered ancient Macedonian people' (lower case) and 'Murdered ancient Romans', if you don't mind.
Avilich (
talk)
16:36, 3 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: For further consideration now that
Category:Murder victims is nominated. PS: XFDcloser could not handle relisting this large nomination, so the categories have not had their discussion links updated.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
✗plicit01:38, 24 October 2021 (UTC)reply
I have struck my oppose above upon the addition of
Category:Murder victims. I shall remain neutral on the matter; I can't offhand think of a situation where it would be inappropriate to describe a murdered person as a victim. (A murdered child is still a victim, whatever the category name.)
Oculi (
talk)
02:50, 24 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Opppose. Isn't broke, don't fix. "Murder victim" is how regular normal people talk, including our readership (remember them?) The more we talk like normal people instead of bots that haven't been programmed to understand idioms perfectly yet, the more comfortable our readers can be reading us.
FWIW I'm still having trouble imagining a person who is murdered but is not a victim of murder.
Xiao Zhen is not in any murdered person category, since he's the perp. The vic... person of deadness was Hiren Mohini, and he doesn't have an article, but if he did, why wouldn't he be a victim, having been, after all, stabbed to death with a kitchen knife and all. So still waiting on an example.
Herostratus (
talk)
08:13, 1 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment "Not broken" isn't a valid rationale for opposition, and the nomination's case is still valid. Nobody is disputing that murdered people aren't victims, but that wasn't even the point to begin with.
Avilich (
talk)
17:09, 8 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I would support "murdered fooyans" because it is conciser than "Fooyan murder victims", which has real value, while victims is already sort of implied by the murder. "Murdered fooyan people" over "Fooyan murder victims", however, is not shorter, just unnecessarily toned down. I'm on this slightly beyond "not broken" (while I agree that it applies): if this proposal is adopted, we would have less clarity without real gain.
gidonb (
talk)
13:07, 19 January 2022 (UTC)reply
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Category:Members of the Optical Society
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Nominator's rationale: Being a member of an academic society is almost never a defining characteristic (academies of science and other organizations where membership is strictly invitation-only being an obvious exception). The two subcats can be included in the parent cat (The Optical Society).
Randykitty (
talk)
07:35, 4 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment:
Softlavender being an optics expert is indeed a defining characteristic. That's why we have
Category:Optical physicists and
Category:Opticians. Being a member of a society just means that you pay their membership fees (being elected fellow is clearly something else). It doesn't even necessarily mean that you're an "optics expert" and, conversely, not all optics experts will be members of this society. --
Randykitty (
talk)
08:05, 4 October 2021 (UTC)reply
I see what you are saying. However in many cases that I checked the listee had received award(s) from the Society. In most of the cases I checked there was no other indication in the categories that the listee was an optics expert, even though it is usually their most defining characteristic. All of the listees I checked were indeed optics experts. In some of the cases they were also either Fellows or past/current Presidents of the society; I think what needs to happen is a clear-out of the parent category from those articles. I'm still in favor of keeping this category.
Softlavender (
talk)
10:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)reply
I went through every entry in this cat. After removing a few where the articles did not mention (let alone source) the membership, not a single ordinary member remained. Several were Fellows and moved to that cat. Four were honorary members (only 1 named/year, so quite an honor), so I created a new cat for them and moved them there. That left 3 bios: one for a former vice-president (1921), one for a senior member of the board of directors, and one a Nobel laureate who somehow never even got named fellow. I think it is arguable that the first two are not ordinary members and do not belong in the member cat but either in the mother category or in a category for vice presidents/senior board members (if either is deemed noteworthy - I don't think so actually). For the latter (the Nobel laureate), I think it is quite obvious that being a member of a society is far from defining for this person. --
Randykitty (
talk)
13:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete including the Fellows and Honorary members subcategories, per
WP:NONDEF. (If the latter subcategories are kept, the parent category should be kept as a container category.)
Marcocapelle (
talk)
14:57, 4 October 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Victims of the RMS Titanic
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Comment. "Victims of the RMS Titanic" suggests they were killed by the ship as opposed to by its sinking. "Deaths on the RMS Titanic" suggests they died on the ship, not necessarily in the sinking (in fact, many didn't die on the ship but in the sea). However, I would actually prefer
Category:Victims of the sinking of the Titanic to match the article
Sinking of the Titanic. On a technicality, note that the article is now called
Titanic, not
RMS Titanic, so any category title using the latter is probably best avoided. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
15:50, 11 October 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Disorders of adult personality and behaviour