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If we need it, it needs a headnote defining the family more closely. Otherwise, this is liably to be categorising people by surname, which is not allowed.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
13:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Joseon Dynasty painters
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Nominator's rationale: Here, Joseon is the country, not the 20 rulers. This was already done for Goryeo.... and for the Joseon article itself.
Pldx1 (
talk)
16:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Culture in German occupied Belgium during World War II
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Delete per nom. Culture is not a vague concept, but occupied Belgium was still Belgium. All content is presumably already somewhere under Belgian culture, where it should be.
Place Clichy (
talk)
20:40, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete I was open minded about this before I clicked through the articles: Tintin comics published during the war and several writers who were active during this period. Doesn't seem to be an occupation theme here. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:56, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Satellites by type
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Keep In the absence of a more detailed rationale, one seems to be the type and the other the purpose. I'm willing to reconsider though if form and function are the same in practice. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
09:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Pumpkin Star
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Category:People of mixed Sinhala-Tamil descent
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Creator comment I don't understand; what do you mean by "messy"? It is a relevant category given the ethnic tensions and conflict between the Sinhala and Tamil people of Sri Lanka and thus decrease in Sinhala-Tamil marriages.
Yohan Antjont Sunanda (
talk) 17:18, Sat 29 May 2021, GMT
@
Yohan Anthony Sunanda: "Descent" categories are inherently a bit unsatisfactory as they're hard to get reliable
WP:REFERENCEs for - and they tend to be a bit "fuzzy", editors start applying "descent" categories to someone on the basis of great-grandfathers and the like. That's one aspect of the "messiness", descent is not clear-cut and verifiable in the same way as holding a passport. Secondly, someone's descent is rarely relevant to their story. There are exceptions, eg someone like
Michael Chopra who went through a saga of potentially playing football for India despite being a British citizen, by virtue of his Indian family heritage. But in general there's huge amounts of
WP:OVERCATEGORISATION based on descent that is not appropriate relative to its importance for most people. Combine that with the sourcing problems and you can see why I'm not a fan in general of most descent categorisation. Moving on to this category in particular, if you read
WP:OVERCATEGORISATION you'll see that intersecting categories are generally discouraged except for properly big categories, we have
pretty good tools for finding intersections like between people of two different descents. Categories on Wikipedia are rather more sophisticated than simple metatags. And in this case
Category:People of Sinhalese descent is not just small but non-existent, which hardly suggests we need an intersection category. One other thing - when creating categories, please make sure that they are categorised in turn, it's important that they're in the hierarchy so that humans and maintenance bots can find them.
Le Deluge (
talk)
11:25, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete, we categorize people by ethnicity, but as far as I know there is no separate Sinhala-Tamil ethnicity. If mixed marriages is a notable topic, by all means create an article.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
22:22, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete We categorize people by recognized ethnic gorup. Thus Metis, but Metis are an ethnic group, not just every person with both Native American and European ancestry.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom and previous editors. Multiple ethnicity is not a defining ethnicity, though people who would self-identify as both Tamil and Sinhalese could in theory be parented to both categories. Note that a large purge will probably be necessary for Sri-Lankan categories, as some editors have apparently considered that every single category should be split along ethnic lines, and that ethnicity, or ethnicity-occupation intersection, is defining for everybody, in complete contradiction with our guidelines
WP:EGRS,
WP:OCEGRS and
WP:CATDEF.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:48, 7 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Anthony family (Susan B. Anthony)
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Delete, family without main article and borderline
WP:SMALLCAT. One of these two criteria would not be sufficient to have me vote delete, but the combination is. If kept, rename per nom.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Five members is the generally accepted cut-off number for
WP:SMALLCAT, so I would like to see a stronger consensus to delete this category instead of the proposed renaming.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
✗plicit08:43, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Delete we lack a topic article. With family categories we should always insist on a topic article. Otherwise we get true messes like we used to have with an article linking 7th or greater cousins together who had no concept themselves that they were in any way related.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:28, 3 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Tunisian theologians
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Create subcat. Tunisia had an early Christian history, and several noted Christian theologians were from that part of the world (albeit before it was known as Tunisia). I've added a couple to the category.
Grutness...wha?04:52, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Why cant we rename it and then give it a new parent, if that is required? I dont think any of the early Christians would be regarded as Tunisian.
Rathfelder (
talk)
20:02, 2 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Governing Council of the ECB
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Comment -- This is specified for "current" members. We do not normally allow current/past splits. Expand abbreviation certainly. However the name of the category is too long.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:49, 3 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: There is consensus to expand the abbreviation and add "members" to the name, but where in the title should the latter be placed?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
✗plicit08:27, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The latter not necessarily so. I would rather expect articles about actions of the council when the category name does not specify members.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
03:23, 2 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Otolaryngologists
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In the spirit of consensus, I am also OK with a merge as nominated to the surgeons parents in case the physicians parents are not preferred.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:52, 7 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Doctors are increasingly specialised. There is nothing special about otolaryngologists, except that the speciality has been established longer than many others. Why are we picking on them?
Rathfelder (
talk)
08:19, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
You are right that there is nothing special about otolaryngologists, the nomination would have been the same for any other occupation.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
13:37, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
So why exactly does
WP:SMALLCAT not apply? Physicians is a "large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". There are about 160 articles about otolaryngologists and there is potential for growth.
Rathfelder (
talk)
13:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
This is not a discussion about physicians in general but about a subsubspeciaization of physicians. 160 Articles is a very low number considering there are some 200 nationalities. We don't diffuse
Category:Romantic poets by nationality either.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
13:57, 30 May 2021 (UTC)reply
It is not an issue of destroying, the usage of that word is completely inapplicable here. This is a merge proposal, not a deletion proposal. It is an issue of not diffusing by nationality. Categories low in the tree with a relatively low article count do not have to diffused by nationality. That does not just apply to physicians, it applies to every occupation, as I have showed before with
Category:Romantic poets.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
04:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Romantic poets dont have much in common with surgeons. And there is no reason to think that romantic poets cant be divided by nationality. You are not answering my questions about
WP:SMALLCAT. If it doesnt apply here, where does it apply?
Rathfelder (
talk)
19:49, 1 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose all theseCategory:Medical doctors by specialty and nationality is a well established large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme - established in 2009. The whole point of it is to ensure that smaller specialities and smaller countries are equally treated. Not that
otolaryngology is a small speciality. It's one of the oldest and biggest (and best paid) surgical specialities with numerous sub-specialities. There is plenty of potential for growth - as
WP:SMALLCAT allows. NB while the article is
Otorhinolaryngology the medical journals all seem to use
otolaryngology.
Bigwig7 (
talk)
09:11, 5 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Devotees of Paramahansa Yogananda
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Oppose. If a person has a Wikipedia page in their name that is significance enough. There are tens of thousands of devotees worldwide but most do not have a Wikipedia page in their name.
Red Rose 13 (
talk)
07:30, 1 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Documentary films about the Armenian Genocide
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Category:Romanov Family Association members
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After the royal family was executed in 1918 during the Russian Revolution, the escaped and already overseas members remain defined as being the House of Romanov in exile which is why we already have
Category:House of Romanov in exile. In 1979, the
Romanov Family Association was created and its membership is limited to legitimate descendants, although there is
some controversy over the lineage. Being a member of a family association isn't defining when we already have a category for that same family and the contents are listified
in the main article. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:12, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
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Category:Local units of the Boy Scouts of America
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WP:SCOUTSTYLE emphasizes how unlikely it is that local scouting groups are notable, which is likely why this 13-year-old cat still only contains 3 articles with little room for growth. When you put together the miscellaneous articles that don't belong in either the councils or camps categories, it's not a cohesive grouping that would aid navigation: an
equestrian troop, a
drum and bugle corps, and a
dance troupe. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:12, 29 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Upmerge local scout units, basically anything below the council level, are virtually never notable. Although with the way some interpret GNG, the fact that one could find 3 newspaper articles mentioning members of that troop doing things, would lead to some arguing they pass GNG. Which really tells us some misunderstand GNG, and we should be much more cautious about content from local papers running human interest stories on local events. I suspect my old troop 1973 of what was then the Detroit Area Council (I think that was the name, we were not in Clinton Valley Council because the church building was in the other council area, even though I myself lived in the Clinton Valley Area), got at least 2 articles mentioning it over the years, maybe more. We got heavy coverage when we had 7 boys get their eagles at once, so we may have had 2 papers publish articles then, and if so they would have had 2 different writers.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
12:35, 3 June 2021 (UTC)reply
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