Category:Railway stations served by Northern (train operating company)
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Nominator's rationale: Northern has lost their franchise and it has been handed over to Northern Trains. Therefore, this category needs to be renamed as Northern no longer has the franchise.
Pkbwcgs (
talk)
20:02, 1 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Alt rename and purge (e.g. remove
Crewe railway station which has Northern services, but is operated by another TOC) or (preferably)Delete/listify per my comments at the 2014 CFD referred to above. Note: The alt rename is not ideal as some of the articles (e.g. Crewe) don't even use the word "franchise". DexDor(talk)06:38, 2 March 2020 (UTC)reply
@
DexDor:This category group isn't for the operators of the stations, but the operators of the trains that serve the stations; therefore, Crewe may be in more than one of these categories. I don't see why the word "franchise" needs to be mentioned in
Crewe railway station at all, it is sufficient for the article text to show that some of the services at Crewe are operated by (insert name here), provided that the name is linked back to another article that gives the details about the franchisee. The Crewe article needn't be explicit that (insert name here) is the current franchisee for the Northern franchise. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
20:23, 2 March 2020 (UTC)reply
I've amended my !vote to delete. Re "it is sufficient for the article text to show that some of the services at Crewe are operated by (insert name here), provided that the name is linked back to another article that gives the details about the franchisee." that's stretching categorization too far. No-one in the real world would seriously describe Crewe as a "Northern franchise railway station"; and that's especially true in a historical context (the article is about the station's 150+ years history, not just about today). We have much better (e.g. more defining, more permanent and clearer) characteristics to categorize stations by (e.g. which county they are in). DexDor(talk)21:25, 2 March 2020 (UTC)reply
So are you saying that Crewe doesn't have services operated as part of the Northern franchise? If so, then who operates the local stopping service between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly? --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
23:42, 2 March 2020 (UTC)reply
No, I didn't say that. Who (currently) operates the local stopping service between Crewe and Manchester Piccadilly isn't a defining or permanent characteristic of the station. DexDor(talk)07:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)reply
I'm arguing that the served-by categories should be deleted. That deletion should not leave any stations uncategorized (as they should be in stations-in-county categories) so that deletion would not be dependent on the creation of any replacement categories.
Whether stations-on-line categories are created is a separate issue; such categorization might not be a good use of editor time as articles about train lines (
example) already include diagrams that are a much better means of navigating (between the articles about the stations on a line) than a category would provide. DexDor(talk)18:39, 3 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Categorization by who manages a station is better (more defining and less transitory) than categorization by who serves a station, but (imo, in the UK at least) it's still not permanent enough to be suitable for categorization; a station may exist for hundreds of years during which the company/ies that manage it may change many times.
A large station that I use has platforms for mainline trains and platforms for local trains. The staff on these platforms wear different uniforms, but as a passenger I've little interest in which company/ies (currently) manages the whole station. That info should be in the text/infobox of an article, but not necessarily a category. DexDor(talk)20:54, 3 March 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree that categorisation by who manages the station is less useful than by who serves it. A station is generally managed the TOC that operates the majority of the services but there are a great many exceptions to this for various reasons - indeed there certainly used to be a handful of examples of stations managed by a TOC who did not operate any services there (I can't remember whether there currently are).
Thryduulf (
talk)
10:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)reply
There are other examples, more directly relevant to this case: stations between Stalybridge (exclusive) and Huddersfield (exclusive), such as
Mossley, are managed by Northern Trains but have only
TransPennine Express services. Paradoxically, both
Stalybridge and
Huddersfield, which do have Northern Trains services, are managed by TransPennine Express. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
11:19, 15 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:WWOR-TV
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Nominator's rationale: Wikipedia has a longstanding consensus against categories for individual television stations. The majority of the contents here, further, are people who have worked for the station, which is a clear violation of
WP:PERFCAT -- and while there are also a couple of local and/or syndicated shows that aired on the station, we don't categorize syndicated shows by individual station at all -- and once the syndicated shows and the staff are removed, there aren't enough local original productions left to justify a special exception from the longstanding consensus. Furthermore, this has also been tried and deleted in the past, and is thus technically speediable, but since the deletion discussion was 12 years ago I felt it more appropriate to relist for a new discussion rather than speedying.
Bearcat (
talk)
19:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Support in principle -- However, I would not want to amalgamate Chinese and Korean scholars (outside America), as they are liable to bring different perspectives on their subject.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:07, 2 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Delete is there any connection that makes Korean-American biblical scholars different from any other FooEthnicity-FooCountry biblical scholars. Is their scholarship somehow unique or tainted by the ethnic category? If not, it's not a notable intersection and a last-rung category.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
23:11, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American educators of Chinese descent
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DeleteAmerican educators of Asian descent, like most of these descent categories, is a redlink. Hard to imagine an NPOV article that could be written other than a list (which again begs the question of why the association is notable). And how much descent is required; some hold that all the pre-Columbian peoples of the New World are descended from Asians. So are we to be put into this category?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
23:14, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American educators of Korean descent
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Why assume it will grow? The burden is on creators of small categories to prove that it will grow into a category with a sufficient size as to be useful. Either way, it is a triple intersection that is discouraged in policy. Are American educators of Korean descent distinguished enough to have an article written about the topic itself? If so, please provide evidence. If not, it should be deleted.--
TM13:18, 2 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Taiwanese-American diplomats
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Delete as the category says, these are people of Taiwanese descent. Nothing indicating some vaguely expressed "descent" from Taiwan (or anywhere else) has bearing on a person's diplomacy?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
23:22, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sri Lankan-American diplomats
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Category:Filipino-American diplomats
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Category:Cambodian-American diplomats
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Category:Bangladeshi-American diplomats
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Category:Afghan-American diplomats
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Category:Pakistani-American diplomats
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Category:American dancers of Hong Kong descent
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Delete per my comment on the above category - dancers are no different than diplomats (or nearly anything with a few exceptions and only those who are immigrants rather than descendants long ago.
Carlossuarez46 (
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23:23, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American jurists of Hong Kong descent
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Delete per my comment on the above category - jurists follow the law; to the extent someone seems to imply that those of Hong Kong descent do things differently, which is presumably why the intersection would be notable, prove it.
Carlossuarez46 (
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23:26, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American jurists of Vietnamese descent
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Category:Vietnamese-American theologians
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The general rule is 5 articles in a category, so a category with only 1 article is usually considered too small to be useful. If you can provide evidence that there are 4 other notable Vietnamese American theologians AND that Vietnamese American theologians constitute such a unique combination that one can write a Wikipedia article on them (like
African-American businesses) then I will gladly withdraw the nomination.--
TM14:11, 3 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Is there an argument for the existance of Vietnamese American theology? Yes. The currently single Wiki page associated with the category,
Peter C. Phan, includes the foremost scholar in the field, who has written specifically on this entitled "The Dragon and the Eagle: Toward a Vietnamese American Theology."
For the general rule of 5 articles, can you point me to where this is specified (I cannot see it in
WP:Categorization). This is not an area I am most familiar with, but some (near) notable individuals include
Jonathan Tran,
Anh Tran,
Mai-Anh Le Tran, and possibly
Dominic Mai Thanh Lương. We cannot create stub categories. But if you merge this category today, when scholars like the above become more notable, will we then recreate the category that has been removed? --
Caorongjin (
talk)
16:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)reply
The fact that one theologian wrote about diaspora topics does not mean that we should create an entire tree by descent for theologians.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
Agreed (and struck).
TM posed a false corollary which I was answering: the claim that the existence of a notable “Vietnamese American theology” topic and article should lead to the creation of a “Vietnamese American theologians” category. The category creation should be tied to the existence of figures who can be identified as such identity, irrespective of their theological production. You may have, for instance, non-Vietnamese Americans who are working with Vietnamese Americans and help construct a theology for them that can rightly be called Vietnamese-American theology. —
Caorongjin (
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08:44, 4 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:American dancers of Vietnamese descent
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Category:American dancers of Taiwanese descent
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Category:American dancers of Indian descent
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Category:American dancers of Pakistani descent
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Category:Canadian comedians of Pakistani descent
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Category:American comedians of Pakistani descent
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Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to
Category:American comedians. Small category (1 article) unlikely to grow. Also a triple intersection of nationality, profession, and ancestry that is not independently notable.
TM03:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)reply
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