Category:Defunct terrestrial television stations in the United States
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Nominator's rationale: Per the lede on
Terrestrial television, "...while in the United States it is called broadcast or over-the-air television (OTA)."
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Category:Golden State Killer
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The result of the discussion was:rename. The main consideration is
WP:C2D, which may be extra important since
Joseph James DeAngelo was known by multiple names. Another discussion can be held as to how well the contents actually fit/how defining the category is. bibliomaniac1503:27, 18 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose or Delete most of these articles are about the Golden State Killer, but most of the things covered by the article don't name him. I note we have a separate article about
Boston Strangler than the one about
Albert DeSalvo; probably because the crimes are more notable than the perpetrator. That editors elected to go the other way at the article for the
Golden State Killer ought not classify things that never mention Joseph James DeAngelo to be in an eponymous category. Similarly, all the various works about Jack the Ripper wouldn't be categorized in Jack Smith if we find out that Jack Smith was Jack the Ripper.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
21:15, 23 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Jack the Ripper is practically a legendary figure by now, and there are two articles for the Boston Strangler and Albert DeSalvo because its heavily disputed if DeSalvo is actually guilty of all the killings, that is not the case with DeAngelo.
★Trekker (
talk)
11:47, 24 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: It looks like the discussion is expanding to consider whether the category itself is defining.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac1521:09, 26 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment I have deleted inappropriately included articles from the category. It now only includes books and documentaries related to DeAngelo.
JJARichardson (
talk)
23:52, 16 August 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:1C1+1C1 locomotives
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Comment (and weak keep) we have an entire tree of categories using the UIC system (as in 1C1+1C1) and a whole tree of the equivalent Whyte system categories (as in 2-6-2+2-6-2). From memory, the Whyte system is usually used for steam locomotives and the UIC system for diesel and electric locomotives (this might just be in the UK and Commonwealth countries, or it might be worldwide - I'm not sure). If both trees are kept, though, some stipulation may be needed so that we can say "That's a Bo-Bo, but that's a 4-4-0"
Grutness...wha?15:49, 26 July 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Sleeping heroes
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Nominator's rationale:merge, not a defining characteristic. In fact in most of the articles in this category the term is not used at all.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
11:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Well it is
Drake's Drum that is actually in the category - I probably should have said that. Yes,
Untersberg is a mountain, one with
Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor asleep underneath it, as a long section explains. That the 2-line lead does not mention this is a
WP:LEAD issue. Like most of our leads it is much too short, which is why "not mentioned in the lead" is such a poor test of "defining" - I agree it is a fairly good test on the rare occasions when the lead actually meets policy.
Johnbod (
talk)
18:08, 26 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep I'm not sure what "the term is not used at all" is supposed to prove; as Johnbod says, there is no suggestion that "
sleeping hero" is a canonical name that one would expect verbatim in any relevant article. When I created the category I chose "Sleeping heroes" rather than "King under the mountain" as its name because not all instances are kings; I am very amenable to changing the name if that would make it more obvious whether some articles belong in it (e.g. mountains, though some heroes sleep elsewhere). As regards "defining characteristic", that is often in the eye of the beholder; physical-geography references for a mountain will ignore legends about it where cultural surveys of the region would not. If a current article version cites mainly the former type that may be because the mountain has little cultural significance or because the article's main editors were geologists. Articles in the category have at a minimum a section called something like "Legends" that describes the idea;
King Arthur's messianic return,
Knights of Ålleberg,
Nero Redivivus legend,
Sebastianism are clearly defining, and for many of the articles about mythical characters, the sleeping story is a significant part of the legend. For historical people and actual places, the "defininingness" of this particular myth can be discussed case by case on the relevant article's Talk-page; perhaps this category should be removed from some of those articles that currently have it, but by the same token perhaps it should be added to some of the many other articles listed in the main
King asleep in mountain article. Deleting the Category entirely is too crude a solution to whatever problems may exist with the current uses.
jnestorius(
talk)19:14, 26 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep "Not a defining characteristic" is a nonsense argument. The legends of Frederick Barbarossa, Ogier the Dane, the Knights of Ålleberg, Sebastian of Portugal and the Marble Emperor are very clear: one or more sleeping heroes waiting for centuries but who will return when the country needs them. "King in the mountain" is a common legend in European folklore (see
King asleep in mountain). It is relevant for readers to locate similar legends from other cultures so a specific category is quite in order. The category title should not refer to a king since one of the main examples of this legend, Ogier the Dane, isn't a monarch.
ValentinianT /
C06:52, 27 July 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:WikiProject Administrator Members
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Category:Human activities with cetaceans
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Merge (Option B) as the cetaceans level is unnecessary (whales and dolphins being appropriately named subcats).
Oculi (
talk)
10:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Relevant sites for whale watching
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Re "would probably no longer exist if not for whale watching, which accounts for well over half of its economy." - there's nothing in the Kaikōura article to support that.
Kaikōura#Economy doesn't mention whale watching; the article just says "[It is now] a popular tourist destination, mainly for whale watching (...) and ... dolphins.". DexDor(talk)09:45, 28 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Yup - have done. CATVER points out just what I'm saying, that the articles need work in order for them to have references which verify that whale watching is a defining characteristic of the places - the problem is with the articles, not the category itself. As to the ELs being specifically about tourism and whales - you're asking for information about tourism and whales - where else do you expect them to come from? I'm not likely to link to an article about mountains. If you google Kaikoura almost ever single article you get is a tourism site related to whale watching. Of the first 25 ghits, you get the town council's page (which prominently mentions whale watching in many of its articles, the Wikipedia article, and 23 tourist sites, all of which prominently refer to Kaikoura's whale watching. As it was, I deliberately linked an article from the government's Department of Conservation, thinking that might be neutral enough to satisfy even the most cynical of tastes, but I was clearly wrong.
Grutness...wha?03:25, 30 July 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mazun
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Weak keep - not one I'd go to the wall for but there's a "part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" argument as part of
Category:Provinces of the Sasanian Empire, and "realistic potential for growth" given that it covers ~4 centuries of the history of 5 modern countries in the Gulf. If it looks empty at the moment, I suspect that's a
WP:GLOBAL failure on the part of en.wiki, presumably Arabic or Farsi wikis will demonstrate the potential for growth? We're not good on this kind of stuff in general compared to eg
Category:Provinces of the Roman Empire.
Le Deluge (
talk)
11:22, 13 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Well
WP:SMALLCAT emphasises "potential for growth" and there's no doubt that the Sasanian Empire is the subject of serious academic study among professional historians - Oxford even has
chair to
it. So then it just comes down to how you interpret "realistic" given that Wikipedia has no
WP:TIMELIMIT. If a new Pokemon character didn't have a full biography within a week of being announced, it's probably not going to happen, but editors tend not to be so quick on serious academic subjects, particularly when they address
WP:GLOBAL issues. And ultimately it's the
WP:GLOBAL aspect that means I would cut this one a lot more slack in determining what is "realistic" - the fault lies in en.wiki editors, not the subject per se.
Le Deluge (
talk)
13:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)reply
It is not "part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" since most provinces of the Sasanian Empire do not have a category. As for "realistic potential for growth", realistically we will not reach a handful of articles within the next 5 or 10 years and if and when that happens it is okay to reestablish the category. Categories are not meant to compensate for underrepresentation of articles,
WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS also applies to Wikipedia itself.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
19:39, 13 July 2020 (UTC)reply
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Category:Balasagan
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