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Nominator's rationale:WP:SMALLCAT. Nine articles total in this tree, with the South African Republic categories under Transvaal. There's enough in the South African Republic tree (7 articles) to justify splitting it out to centuries, probably, if not for the fact that the whole republic existed within one century. Transvaal only has two articles in it. This merge/delete nomination would condense everything to
Category:Establishments in Transvaal and
Category:Establishments in the South African Republic, with the latter being a sub-category of the former. ~ RobTalk21:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Photo sharing
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Nominator's rationale: The category is actually about the sharing of images - not just
photographs. One could also create a new category but in my view that would be undue here as these categories would overlap way too much - almost all entries of the current category would need to be copied over (except a handful of entries like
500px; note that image-sharing communities are typically also photo-sharing communities so most entries would really need to be in both categories). Note that even if a new category would be considered appropriate here that can still be done (and more easily so) after the category got moved. (Alternative name:
Category:Picture sharing)
Fixuture (
talk)
20:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
RevelationDirect: Nice find - I actually forgot I made a post about it already. It doesn't change anything though as I got no reply and this is the normal way to propose moving a category....or at least I thought until now: I guess one should only request a renaming here if the entries of the category don't need to moved over? When would that be useful? Isn't the only use of this then category-renamings which entail removing or changing the category from most of its articles? --
Fixuture (
talk)
20:53, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose The Move Request template usually brings in some more input to come to a consensus on article naming. In general, I favor having category names match the wording and scope of the main article because it makes the inclusion criteria clearer for editors and the navigation clearer for readers. I generally oppose category renames that are trying to bypass a consensus for the name of the main article but other editors in CFD might feel differently.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:39, 12 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Wikipedia categories named after Wikipedia categories
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Delete The edit summary by the creator is "creating vital category in the epo cat tree (more of a pile of branches, not connected to each other, but you get the idea)". If categories aren't connected to each other even from the creator's perspective, I'm not seeing a administrative benefit to keeping this category.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
20:47, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
joke, im sorry, i let my personal feelings override my editorial professionalism. i hate the eponymous category "tree", and wanted to express it, but of course this is technically vandalism. ***Delete*** as creator, who has no rationale for keeping it.
Mercurywoodrose (
talk)
05:27, 12 June 2016 (UTC)reply
I've removed the parent cats on that basis. This is a waste of everyone's time. And it's only because he's an experienced editor with no other track record of disruptive editing that I'm aware of, that I'm not applying a level one warning.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
14:17, 13 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Children's charities based in England and Wales
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The legal jurisdiction of
England and Wales is the root of the problem. All English and Welsh charities are registered with the Charity Commission for England and Wales, but that does not imply that they are based in both England and Wales, nor that they operate in both, nor indeed that they don't operate in other countries. We use the UK as the main geographical focus in line with all the other organisational categories, and it makes no sense to replace it with a focus on England and Wales.
Rathfelder (
talk)
22:35, 31 May 2016 (UTC)reply
Note that the nom wants to merge to UK, while Necrothesp wants to split England from Wales. Personally, I think both proposals are reasonable. The single jurisdiction of
England and Wales doesn't keep us from subdividing into the constituent "countries", as is done with most other categories. --
PanchoS (
talk)
02:51, 4 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: More discussion is needed to differentiate between splitting these up and merging them to the UK.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ RobTalk17:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mental structures
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Category:Works based on the Holy Grail legend
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The result of the discussion was:rename. There's no consensus to delete. The arguments to merge weren't convincing to other editors, especially because certain works contain the object of the Holy Grail but aren't based on the Arthurian legend. (
non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk15:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: After some thought and coffee, it seems to me that this is a reasonable solution to what to do with Stefanomone's other outlier category for Holy Grail-related works. I see that it was renamed minorly in
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_August_24#Works_inspired_by. I think Foo in fiction is probably best because the Grail is an object and narrative device, whereas all the other categories in the 2012 Cfd were all for Works based on literary characters, i.e., protagonists.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
15:48, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
But surely there are a LOT of adaptations of Arthurian legend that don't involve the grail?
The Sword in the Stone (novel) and many adaptations of it; anything with Merlin, Excalibur, etc. but not the grail. So I don't see how a straight-up merge would work. To take up your point about the quest,
Quest for the Holy Grail has existed as a redirect since 2004. Maybe that could be a basis for a rename if we have to add a word or two to make the Works based on foo construction work?
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
20:36, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. The Grail also appears in non-Arthurian fiction such as the film Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) and the novel The Silver Chalice (1952). One features the Holy Grail in the 20th century, the other features a fictional history of the Grail in the 1st century. Arthur and his cast of characters are not involved at all.
Dimadick (
talk)
10:08, 12 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename' per nom - I don't think we could classify Monty Python and the Holy Grail as "Arthurian fiction" because it's clearly derivative, but it's pretty clearly got the Grail in it. There's probably a Dan Brown movie or three that references it too.
MSJapan (
talk)
07:18, 13 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete putting a slew of films that have something to do with the holy grail together would be like putting together a
Category:BMW cars in fiction with all the movies featuring BMWs together. Are there reliable sources that say that the holy grail defines these works (if so, remove other - apparently non-defining things), and one can always find sources for things like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is defined by Harrison Ford or Sean Connery, but we'd never categorize that film based on its defining actors.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
18:24, 13 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Imperialism terminology
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Nominator's rationale: In this one, Stefanomione has quite simply misunderstood how the structure Fooian terminology works.
Category:Political terminology or subcats would be where any bona fide entries are found. Terminology used to describe colonialism or imperialism belongs in the field of study or ideology in which the terms are used -- not the "y" being addressed. (i.e.,
Category:Watergate scandal isn't "Republicanism terminology") Added to that, a great deal of the category such as
Category:Former empires and
Category:Overseas empires isn't terminology at all, simply subtopics.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
15:31, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Units of morphological analysis
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Nominator's rationale: Two categories created simultaneously by Stefanomione for linguistic morphology-related sub-units, but with no clear reason why some are split off into morphological analysis. I should point out that
Morphology (linguistics) is the actual name of the main article, so if someone wants to rename, as well, fine with me. Again, I'm open to other or more broader solutions, too, but if no one has any yet we could just regard this as a sensible first step. Also, I would really welcome any expert input: I have a M.A. in English literature but I shied away from the more structural stuff.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
13:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Certainly, deletion would be fine by me. Again, I just wanted to propose a most modest first step, since this is an area in which I have only a passing knowledge.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
21:44, 18 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dictionaries of sociology
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@
Marcocapelle: Apart from sociology, political science, economics, psychology and law are usually considered social sciences. The existing
Category:Law dictionaries should of course be kept intact as a subcategory. There should be dozens (!) of dictionaries in this area sufficiently notable to have an article. --
PanchoS (
talk)
21:16, 18 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dictionaries of economics
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Category:Units of information (cognitive processes)
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Nominator's rationale: Also created by Stefanomione back in 2008 I'm surprised no one has challenged this category before, if only on the basis of the daft name. Unsurprisingly, we do not have a main article
Units of information (cognitive processes). The category as currently composed mixes abstract concepts (concepts, memes) with units of morphology, which is to say, the study of the smallest units of linguistic meaning. Seems to me to be another example of
WP:ARBITRARYCAT, of his tossing together unrelated things so as to sketch out his sweeping vision of "this is how we think..." But of course, no one here has ever thought quite like Stefanomione, thank god. I'm very open to other solutions for this Cfd, short of deletion, certainly. I daresay there's a lot of other early work from him in the fields of linguistics and narratology in need of cleanup.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
13:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Linguistic units of information
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The result of the discussion was:upmerge. This is just a container category to hold two subcategories, and the
WP:SMALLCAT arguments are strong based on how that guideline is typically applied. Upmerging still keeps the semantic units and narrative units split out from the larger category, so concerns that there are a meaningful difference between these two categories aren't very convincing; we don't lose anything by eliminating the container category, since the sub-categories will still exist. (
non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk15:08, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Upmerge An unnecessary category level created by Stefanomione back in May 2008. Except perhaps for
phonetics, which studies the physical sound characteristics of language, linguistics as a study of language is the study of the transmission of "information" in language, no? Moreover, the addition of
Category:Narrative units here is in error, in that things like television episodes and film scenes are not linguistic units in the true sense of the word, but that can be cleaned up.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
12:40, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
I'm not surprised if it's "flawed": as I've mentioned elsewhere on this page, this is not my area. I had been enrolled in a post-graduate course on this stuff (taught by New Yorker writer Adam Gopnick's dad) and couldn't drop it fast enough. But here's the thing:
semantics is described expressly as "the study of meaning..." not information. The word "information" is never used in the main article in its linguistics section. So if this were to be kept, shouldn't it be
Category:Linguistic units of meaning?
Syntax, is "the set of rules, principles, and processes that govern the structure of sentences in a given language, specifically word order." Which seems to me to be no less
information, which is described broadly and simply as "that which informs... that from which data and knowledge can be derived." So I rather think the oppose is based on a flawed premise, and a merge, no matter my semantical failings, is the way to go.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
14:51, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Works about the Holy Grail legend
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The result of the discussion was:rename as per nom. There is no consensus to delete. The arguments for renaming are based on
WP:CATNAME, which suggests we categorize based on the article names. The oppose argument doesn't refute this application of CATNAME and it's not clear what argument he's making against renaming. (
non-admin closure) ~ RobTalk15:15, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Then my question remains: if the "article concerning the legend is at Holy Grail," why do you seem to be supporting the need to add the word "legend," as has been done here (if I understand you correctly) ?
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
19:48, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Flora and fauna of Rajasthan
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Nominator's rationale: We don't generally have "Flora and fauna" categories so such categories (these are the only 3) don't fit the wider category structure and hence have been placed under one/both of fauna/flora cats (causing incorrect categorization). This layer of categorization is unnecessary. DexDor(talk)10:43, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
I've no objection to splitting to
Category:Flora of Madhya Pradesh etc and that can be done before or after any removal of the flora&fauna level (although we are generally moving away from attempting to encode the distribution of species in categories). The number of articles in these categories is not large and all I've checked are (where appropriate) already in at least one flora/fauna category. IMO, it's not reasonable to request that the admin who closes the CFD do a split. The wording "disproportionately radical proposal that would damage established category structures" is a strange way to describe this nomination - the whole point is that Flora-and-fauna-of-<place> is not an established category structure. DexDor(talk)04:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
DexDor: Just a short answer:
Category:Biota of India is an established scheme though and already had some per-state subdivisions, so a reasonable rename target would have been
Category:Biota of Rajasthan, but it didn't come to my mind either. I renamed it accordingly, but didn't remove the badge, so it may still be deleted. You're right in that my comment was a bit over the top, and I'm sorry about that. No hard feelings from my side… :) -
PanchoS (
talk)
16:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Charitable foundations based in the United States
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Category:Malteser International
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South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
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Support per nom. How is it that we can support this ridiculous level of subcategorisation, which is part of an extensive tree structure, yet must make an exception for
Category:Roman Catholic dioceses in Réunion, because it is part of an extensive tree structure? I'm baffled at the inconsistency of the application of the logic.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
09:34, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Durrani Empire
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Carolingian Empire
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The result of the discussion was:merge and delete per
PanchoS's alternative proposal, which is slightly restrained version of the nominator's plan. There is not quite a consensus for the full plan set out by the nominator
BU Rob13, but I think that Panchos's plan is the solution which will satisfy most of the concerns of most participants in this discussion. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
14:52, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:WP:SMALLCAT. Five pages total here in the establishments categories, and there are no pages in the whole history tree, just the establishment categories. If we kept the History category, it would just provide an extra layer of categorization. ~ RobTalk04:04, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Oppose, from SMALLCAT: "unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". As for the "History" category, there are plenty of pages that can be added there.
Fram (
talk)
06:22, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
The SMALLCAT exception prevents small categories in an overall scheme to be randomly selected for deletion. In this case the whole scheme is under discussion, that's completely different.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:48, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
"As for the "History" category, there are plenty of pages that can be added there." Indeed, everything in this entire tree could be placed under the history subcategory since this is a historical (non-current) topice.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
13:29, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Blue Ribbon Award (railway) winners
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Every year, the Japan Rail Fan Club gives out these awards to two different models of trains that began to be manufactured in Japan the prior year. (By "models" I mean versions of full-size trains, not toy trains.) Japan does have several manufacturers, but not that many models come out each year and the awards don't seem defining to the articles. For comparison, we don't categorize individual car models under any of the
Category:Motor vehicle awards. The winning trains are already listed
here and
here. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
01:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Rotary Foundation fellows
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Awards automatically issued to the Monarch of Kedah
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