Category:People associated with Winchester Cathedral
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Because that's exactly what happens in reality. The priests and bishops do their work surrounded by corpses. Other workplaces may have potted plants or pictures on the walls; cathedrals have corpses under the floor, in the walls and in raised boxes. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
18:32, 23 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Reply@
BrownHairedGirl: Wow, we hardly ever disagree on category issues! But we do here:
PROCEDURE: If someone submits a CFD nomination for a parent category without the sub-categories, I'll oppose it on prodecural grounds to avoid orphaning categories (
example). But I don't see anything procedurally deficient with nominating 1 of 8 sister categories. We're discussing this category because it was nominated.
BACKGROUND: I've been spending a lot of time sifting through the wreckage at
Category:People by scandal (examples:
1,
2,
3). Seeing just how bad these "associated with" categories can get has definitely stiffened my resolve that these should be avoided when practical.
EXCEPTIONS: If navigation is improved though, I'll toss everything else out the window. I don't see an advantage for someone looking through
Category:Winchester Cathedral since this upmerge of 3 sub-categories wouldn't flood the parent category. (St. Paul's has more.) I also think that if someone wants to look at people across cathedrals, they'll use more specific categories like
Category:Burials by cathedral because I don't think the same readers are likely to care about
Nigel (a bishop of Ely) and
John Fletcher (a playwright buried at Southwark).
Hopefully that (long-winded) explanation makes my perspective clearer even if we still disagree. Your compromise to containerize is a step in the right direction but I've spent a lot of time purging loose articles from container cats and I'm not sure why this category is worth saving.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
13:40, 23 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Thanks for that thoughtful reply,
RevelationDirect. I'll reply to your points individually@
PROCEDURE: This is the only member of
Category:People associated with cathedrals to be nominated. If this is a stalking horse for the others, then they should all be nominated together ... but if is a special case out of that set, then then the specialness should be explained. I don't hold with picking one example out of a set and deleteing it at random; that just leads to inconsistent categorisation. So far, I see no case that this category is different from its siblings.
BACKGROUND. I admire your work on the scandal categories, which are magnets for POV-pushers. But association with a cathedral is not usually scandalous.
Yeah, I think that would be the best next step. We can at least come to consensus with BHG on the 1st point: the sister categories are identical and any change (deletion, containerization, etc.) should apply to all of them.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
17:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle+@
RevelationDirect: Yes, that would indeed resolve my first objection, tho I think I may still object on the other grounds. (e.g. this works for universities, so why not for here?)
However, note that if anyone wants to start a new nomination, then the proposed action should not be deletion -- it should be merger to the appropriate Cathedral category if it exists; otherwise rename/repurpose it as a catchall categ for the cathedral. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
18:28, 23 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Support upmerge of this and similar "associated with" categories. We should not group together staff of a cathedral with people who were buried there (or, for that matter, baptised, married...) below the <cathedral> level. A "Staff of <cathedral>" category tree would probably be ok. IMO, people like
Nelson,
Jellicoe and
Baldwin do not belong in a "People associated with religion" category (just because of where they were buried) and an upmerge would be a step towards fixing that. DexDor(talk)20:41, 23 January 2016 (UTC)reply
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talk page or in a
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Category:1969 Bombing of Marine Midland Building
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Nominator's rationale: per
WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 2 articles, and there is no sign of expansion since the category was created 2 years ago. There isn't even a standalone article on the bombing, just one para in
Marine Midland Building. Nobody was killed in the blast, so it isn't likely to be a priority target for expansion.
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
22:15, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Anew Revolution albums
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Nominator's rationale: The band
Anew Revolution as well as all 4 of these albums have come up for AfD, no significance or notability - also none of these 4 pages cite any references or sources.
Garchy (
talk)
20:03, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
User:Marcocapelle, are you sure they weren't cleared out automatically upon the album pages themselves having the afD's go through delete/redirect? Nearly all the albums there successfully went through afD, which is probably why the category is empty. On that note, where did the afD discussion happen, and where/how did it get closed as keep? Just wondering, since all the pages are gone now anyway, so I don't see the rationale.
Garchy (
talk)
21:42, 16 February 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Shipbuilding / shipbreaking localities of Scotland
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Nominator's rationale: to remove the slash. However, I am not persuaded that this category fits into the wider category structures. Most of its parent categories are inappropriate, and I question the merit of categorising whole areas on the basis of one activity which took place there. Do we do that for other industries? Maybe this category should be deleted.
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
18:02, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
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Category:Defunct power stations
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They're not exactly synonymous: the narrow "defunct" means something is "out of operation", while the broader "former" includes things not existing anymore (in this case: demolished power stations) or converted into something else. --
PanchoS (
talk)
18:22, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
But that would mean all former things are defunct, but defunct things might not be former. If a building is demolished it is no longer in operation, but the opposite is not true.
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Category:Provinces of Roman Gaul
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Nominator's rationale: Roman Gaul was a territory, merely defined as an ethno-/cultural-historical area of Celtic settlement; possibly also by the fact it was –in a body– defeated and conquered by Julius Caesar. Making them a container (separate from the rest) is a concession to out-of-date Franco-centric historiography, which is particularly questionable in the face of the history of French foreign policy (with varying definitions of its fringes towards the east or north-east, or what was perceived as 'Gaul' or territorial claim of France).
109.45.2.22 (
talk)
07:33, 21 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep, since parent
Category:Ancient Roman provinces contains multiple of these provinces categories within larger territories of the Roman Empire (e.g. in Hispania, North Africa) so it's not a form of ghettoization as nominator suggests. Neutral about the alternative name, no preference for "of" or "in".
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:20, 3 February 2016 (UTC)reply
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