The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale The term "Roman Greece" is not really associated with saints. This is a historical / geographic intersection. It makes more sense to limit it to its precise geography and not to put any extra cultural layer of that may not have existed at the time. Consistent with
Category:Saints from Roman Anatolia. Daugher categories of Greece will need renaming if this is successful.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
23:12, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Support, not really sure if I understand the rationale, but "from" is more appropriate anyway. By using "of" one might wrongly think that the category is limited to saints who were venerated in Roman Greece, which is not necessarily the case.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:57, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Crimes committed by asylum seekers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose In categories, as in everything, Wikipedia follows the sources. German chancellor pledges crackdown on criminal asylum seekers[1]; Police: Arrival of asylum seekers had no significant effect on crime statistics for 2015[2]. The issue is in the headlines and near the top of the European political conversation. When an asylum-seeker actually does commit a crime, it gets international headlines because of the status (asylum seeker) of the perpetrator. See:
Murder of Ashley Ann Olsen;
2016 Sweden asylum center stabbing. It is because the proclivity to crime on the part of asylum seekers is so loudly alleged/denied/suspected/investigated/discussed that it is appropriate to have a category.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
10:48, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
— Note to closing admin:
E.M.Gregory (
talk •
contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this
CfD.
"Asylum seeker" is a discrete, legally-defined category. All articles in category appear to involve asylum seekers; at least one of the crimes in the category (2015 Paris attack) also involved aliens in France legally or illegally, but not formally seeking asylum. The word expatriate applies to a different category, but, in common usage, expat is a term used for individuals living voluntarily outside their native country either for career purposes or personal choice - "expatriate" is not used for asylum seekers, refuges, or those who have applied for eligibility to become citizens. In other words, there could be categories for
Category:Crimes committed by expatriates or
Category:Crimes committed by illegal immigrants, but they is not the category under discussion.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
12:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The Palagonia murderer was an asylum seeker
[3]; the attacker in Istanbul attacker had been registered and fingerprinted as a refugee/asylum seeker. Please check facts. before making assertions.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
13:32, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete, this is a too recent issue for us to judge whether it concerns a long term non-trivial intersection, we shouldn't categorize too quickly based on daily news. Individual articles may be placed in an asylum category and/or a crime category if appropriate, of course.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Crimes can be categorized by type of crime, country and year - there's no need to start categorizing crimes by biographical characteristics of the perpetrator(s) (bank robberies committed by women?). DexDor(talk)08:52, 6 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Only the first item in your list might have any relevance to this discussion (the others are all categorizing criminals rather than crimes). The first one isn't exactly categorizing by refugee status of perpetrator and see
WP:OSE. Type/country/year are categorizations that can be applied to all/most crimes, whereas categorizing by refugee status of perpetrator would not work well for unsolved crimes, crimes committed by multiple people etc. DexDor(talk)07:09, 7 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete for Now if this intersection is proved to be defining, we can review this later when some of these go to trial and we have more convictions (or acquittals) and more social research.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
10:40, 6 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Can you please show us some examples of that supposedly voluminous literature on the criminal record of recent asylum seekers, or asylum seekers per se? --
PanchoS (
talk)
09:57, 7 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Swiss and South African social scientists and human rights scholars have been particularly active, especially on the abuse of refugees and asylum seekers by criminal justice authorities (Brits and Germans also publish on this) but the literature on migrants, immigrants and asylum seekers and criminality is voluminous
[4] ,
[5]Immigration and crime needs a lot of work, and, of course, immigrant, illegal immigrant, and asylum seeker are overlapping categories, on all of which there is an ocean of social science research.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
01:28, 8 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per DexDor. Categorization of crimes by perpetrator is non-standard. Asylum seekers are around 1 million each year worldwide and have little in common with each other; therefore, this category, without year or country specification, could become a long list of crimes with little in common with each other.
Nykterinos (
talk)
21:29, 8 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Dutch Brazil
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
cmt please discuss the impact to all the parent categories involved, which include 'by year' category trees of various kinds.
Hmains (
talk)
18:43, 7 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Colonial Brazil
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: rename/merge,
Colonial Brazil is just a WP reference to Brazil's history during the colonial period, while Brazil was the actual name of the country during that period. Note that the second half of the 17th century and the 18th century are already in shape.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:16, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Railway accidents involving a SPAD
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Leaving aside that people more familiar with WW I than trains are more likely to think of "SPAD" as
a French airplane maker, the phrase
signal passed at danger is a British term which isn't immediately applicable to accident investigations elsewhere, particularly in North America where different terminology and signalling systems are used. Looking at the
Template:Rail accidents the focus seems to be more on the nature than the cause of accidents, so I'm suggesting repurposing this as a category of collisions between trains, which constitutes the vast majority of the cases. The few exceptions (e.g. the
Newark Bay rail accident in which a train ran into the bay because a bridge was open) can be split off into their own categories.
Mangoe (
talk)
15:49, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Support. It's inappropriate to apply a term with a specific geographic applicability to a worldwide category. The refocusing is a good idea, too, as it's about what happened, not a decidedly limited technical jargon.
oknazevad (
talk)
16:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The problem is (as we've discussed) that it isn't that defining. In speed signalling systems, the cause behind running an absolute stop signal is usually that the train was going too fast to stop in time; in the same sort of territory we also have rear end collisions because the following train passed a permissive stop signal but then (again usually because of speed) failed to stop short of the train in front. Simply passing a "stop" signal is typically a late stage in the course of the accident, but this is essentially a classification by cause, and in these accidents the cause is, most immediately, the juxtaposition of two trains where there is supposed to be one, or more ultimately, the circumstances and behavior that led to that juxtaposition.
We do need an overall categorization of train-vs.-train collisions in any case. Perhaps we could have some more general category of accidents caused by failure to obey signal indications as well, but this category can really only reflect official determinations in the UK.
Mangoe (
talk)
23:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete/Rename if Kept per
WP:OVERLAPCAT The category tree,
Category:Railway accidents by type, groups accidents by objective type of collision where this one is attempting to group it by root cause. That can be a difficult area since there are usually multiple root causes in a
Cascading failure with train accidents. Are we going to throw in weather, equipment maintenance, operator fatigue, etc. often to the same articles? (If kept, by all means rename to be less jargon-y.)
RevelationDirect (
talk)
10:52, 6 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete/Rename if kept per RevelationDirect (also possibly listify). If renaming that might best be done by creating the new category, putting appropriate articles in it then deleting the old category. DexDor(talk)07:24, 7 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Neither RD nor myself said that it's not (in some cases) a defining characteristic. The issue is whether categorizing accidents by cause(s) as well as (or instead of) type of accident (collision with another train, derailment, collision with vehicle on level crossing etc) is a good idea. DexDor(talk)17:20, 7 February 2016 (UTC)reply
It doesn't overlap with categories yet, but train accidents rarely have the single "smoking gun" cause the public expects. Even a seemingly straightforward cause like
a barge taking out a rail bridge also involves poor training, fog, bad bridge design and the track circuit failed to go off.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
01:48, 9 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename to something. I hadn't realized
SPADs were that dangerous - this is now surely the most widely-known meaning in the UK. Not sure the proposed rename is best.
Johnbod (
talk)
16:08, 11 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Rename but not to collisions ... not all collisions are caused by SPADs; sometimes the signal isn't working properly and can't indicate danger, or (in the old days) wasn't operated properly. So ... as much as I love that term "signal passed at danger" for its very Britishness, I propose the more universal
Category:Railway accidents involving a disregarded signal.
Daniel Case (
talk)
05:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Gymnasiums
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Per long-standing main article
Gym, so basically qualifies as a
WP:C2D. Current title "Gymnasiums" is ambiguous, so the alternative would be a disambiguator. Also related to
Category:Gymnastics venues, so we should somehow relate the categories and have some criteria to distinguish. --
PanchoS (
talk)
12:03, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Support When I saw "Gymnasiums", I thought "Germanic secondary school". I asked myself why this was so since "school" it's not an English usage of gymnasium. I realized that it is because no one in America has actually called one of these spaces a gymnasium since, I dunno, probably since the Eisenhower administration. Alternative would be:
Category:Gymnasiums (athletic) or something similar. But
Category:Gyms works for me.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
10:58, 5 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:WikiProject Ignosticism
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fictional undectets
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: I can understand Fictional duos and trios, but this seems to be taking it to an undesirable extreme. Do we anticipate entries beyond Ocean's 11? Perhaps a fictional groups category would be a better way of handling this.
DonIago (
talk)
04:49, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Support, parent categories for groups of real people only go up to
Category:Quartets, I'd suggest we do the same for fictional groups of people. Merge this category to its parent and uncontainerize the parent.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:43, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:European medical associations
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This category is currently explained as: "for Medical associations that are based in Europe and have a scope of operations that is Europe-wide."
Comment wouldn't it be better to use "Pan-European" then? If these are not things that span beyond Europe, then the proposed name is bad, as it makes it appear that the scope is those organizations that are based in Europe, but is not restricted to operating just in Europe --
70.51.200.135 (
talk)
07:07, 4 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Reverse merge -- With a few exceptions all have "European" in their title and are clearly trying to cover the whole continent (or a large part of it). None have seen the need to call themselves "Pan-European", so that WP should not seek to "pan" them.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
19:31, 7 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Not next to each other, but with the latter being a subcat of the former. I'm not totally opposed to renaming the latter as "Pan-European" though. --
PanchoS (
talk)
21:05, 12 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Exactly, that is adequately avoiding ambiguity. As mentioned earlier, maybe change "of Europe" to "in Europe" but definitely keep "international" in the name. 14:03, 14 February 2016 (UTC) add name
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:25, 14 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment This whole category tree is a mess. Note that the
Category:European medical associations has several subcats, for example:
Category:Medical associations based in France, which contains a mix of local societies (a French society and a Paris society), as well as a worldwide international society. (In the latter case one might wonder, of course, whether having an office in a particular country is really a defining characteristic for a worldwide organization). The
Category:Medical associations based in Germany only contains German organizations, not a single one that is European or international in any sense. Of course, being German, it is European... --
Randykitty (
talk)
22:35, 14 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Good point about the anomalous French subcat members; the UK subcat seems okay, e.g., it's mostly for British or Royal-chartered organizations. I agree the office location is not a defining characteristic -- contrary to scope (e.g., national, European, world-wide) -- so I've taken the liberty of rectifying the few offending miscategorizations.
fgnievinski (
talk)
00:24, 15 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment I don't see why Europe should be treated differently from other continents. Nor why we can't have International medical organisations based in a place distinguished, if necessary from domestic ones.
Rathfelder (
talk)
19:21, 15 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The fact that an organisation is based in a place may not be defining from the point of view of its function, but it is not insignificant. So it might be one of many international organisations based in Brussels - a significant fact in the economy of Brussels.
Rathfelder (
talk)
20:19, 15 February 2016 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Young Jedi Knights
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
@
Good Olfactory: The former very probably, the latter definitely :-) When you initially make a mistake in pinging and correct it afterwards, as happened to you in this case, you must also put a fresh signature after having made the correction or else it doesn't work.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:57, 16 February 2016 (UTC)reply
Upmerge for now per nom, also to
Category:Star Wars Legends novels. Given the content of the latter category, it is quite likely that some day every book of the series will have its own WP article, so then this category can be recreated. 20:26, 11 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Marcocapelle (
talk •
contribs)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.