Category:Films Produced Through Project Greenlight
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Nominator's rationale: DeleteProject Greenlight has apparently finished its run, leaving this category small and without prospects for growth. This is the only category of its kind (PG was itself a production, not a studio or series), although that does not in itself always necessitate deletion. If retained, the capitalization should be standardized.-
choster (
talk)
21:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Tar sands
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Preliminary comment - I would not object to renaming
Category:Tar sands of Canada to
Category:Oil sands of Canada, since that reflects the prevailing usage in that country. But I do have concerns about the proposed renaming of the head category. Ideally, that category name would in some way incorporate both terms, to reflect the fact that both are widely used, with "oil sands" preferred in Canada and "tar sands" in the United States. I read the
main article as well as the discussion on renaming at
Talk:Oil sands#Requested move, which mostly revolved around the Canadian industry. My sense is that the resulting decision, though certainly defensible, basically reflected the focus on Canadian issues. However, I'm less concerned about the name chosen for the article, since both terms are referenced in the article's Intro, and
Tar sands still exists as a redirect. That kind of solution is not available when it comes to Categories, hence my reluctance to sign off on a change to
Category:Oil sands. Though it may be somewhat awkward, I would prefer to rename to
Category:Oil sands and tar sands, if no better solution can be found. (
Category:Oil and tar sands, while more elegant, would be too ambiguous.)
Cgingold (
talk)
01:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment. Given that the discussion about the article name does not appear to have been noticed in
WP:RM, I'm not sure we need to support the current article's name. I think that
Category:Bituminous sands would be a more accurate term. So unless there is some case to be made for not using that, I think I'll back renaming to Category:Bituminous sands. I'll note that this term is used in the lead of the main article. I don't believe that I would be able to support the current proposal.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
02:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
I gave some thought to this name myself, since it's both neutral and technically accurate. The only reason I didn't suggest using it is because the other terms are far more familiar to the general public. But I'm certainly open to it if other editors feel it's the best solution.
Cgingold (
talk)
09:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose Having to revert vast numbers of anon IP POV warriors is inevitable with either "Tar" or "Oil", both of which have POV baggage. See
Talk:Oil_sands#Tar_sands_versus_oil_sands. We would be better to use the more technically correct "Bituminous" even if it is less recognized. In any case, the {{category redirect}} template should ensure that whichever one of the three is entered, the agreed one prevails. The main article will continue to need redirects and an explanatory hatnote.
LeadSongDog (
talk)
20:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
RenameCategory:Tar sands to
Category:Bituminous sands. The former is the least accurate term, the latter the most accurate term. Oil sands is more accurate than tar sands since bitumen is simply an extremely viscous form of oil, whereas tar is chemically different from oil. The term "tar sands" arose because the bitumen looked much like the tar produced as a by-product of coal gas synthesis in the last century, but it didn't catch on in areas where coal gas was not manufactured (e.g. Western Canada). The word bitumen may not be familiar to most people, but at least it gets away from the POV issues and the loaded language in the environmental debates.
RockyMtnGuy (
talk)
20:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
I don't want to "tamper" with your words, or I would make the change myself, but you should amend your proposal, striking thru the original target names and adding the new ones.
Cgingold (
talk)
03:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment. "Bituminous", or "Oil", just not "Tar". RockyMtnGuy has covered the reasons why perfectly as far as I'm concerned.
Oosh (
talk)
01:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename. I also think either Bituminous or Oil would be better than Tar. I would probably lean more to Oil Sands since it is so much more commonly used than Bituminous Sands (at least in my part of the world). To be honest I've never seen Bituminous Sands used, I don't know if that should play a role in category naming (that is, should common usage override scientific precision?). I agree oil sands is also a loaded term, but not so loaded as Tar Sands is in the other direction, for reasons described above.
TastyCakes (
talk)
04:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)reply
I think it is the compromise given the issues with oil or tar. It is possible that oil or tar might work in sub categories based on local usage. But a neutral parent name is needed.
Vegaswikian (
talk)
06:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Controversial films
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Strong delete Controversial is clearly subjective. How would the creator of the category justify what is controversial? Surely a high proportion of films have some form of controversy or have parts that ar enot approved of by various communities, however small. Even the scene from Pinocchio where his nose grows bigger can be seen as controversial in that it is offensive to Gods creation by changing a creatures body and of course because he is lying and therefore committing a deadly sin.
The Bald OneWhite cat17:45, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Just in case anybody is tempted to dismiss your example of Pinocchio as merely a bit of reduction ad absurdum, I can tell you with a straight face (no pun intended!) that Bambi -- a film that most people would think of as completely inoffensive -- would have to be included because of the scene where Bambi's mother is shot by a hunter. Controversial?? You betcha!
Cgingold (
talk)
22:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Artists by state
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Category:Northwestern artists
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State people by occupation
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Category:Disease-related charities
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The result of the discussion was:delete; article redirects are harmless. category redirects have their own inherent problems, and Cgingold is correct, this is pretty specific to type in, making it unlikely that someone would do so. If it were to fix a typo, that would be one thing, but it's not .
Kbdank7117:44, 24 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - This was emptied and converted to a category redirect back in February, but I really don't see any reason to keep it hanging around, since it's not what I would call an "obvious" category-name that someone would expect to find.
Cgingold (
talk)
12:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep -- Redirects are harmless. They may also serve the fucntion of discouraging re-creation, if the editor checks the categories he has used to ensure they are suitable.
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Category:Accidental killers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: Delete The real causes of "accidental" deaths is very often disputed. To label, e.g. drivers in fatal car accidents 'killers' is a violation of
WP:BLP.
Gilliam (
talk)
11:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
The category is not labeling anyone a murderer and it's not a violation of BLP to label someone a killer if there is reliable sourcing that they have killed.
Otto4711 (
talk)
21:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment: I have to confess, I didn't take this one seriously the first time I saw it. But now that there's a real discussion under way I've taken a look at the contents. I'm inclined to favor Keeping the category, but if it's retained it really needs to be Renamed, as the current name is just awful. Something along the lines of "People [involved in/responsible for] accidental deaths" is what I have in mind. (Hopefully that can be improved upon.)
Cgingold (
talk)
10:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)reply
As long as the information regarding the living person's being responsible for accidentally killing someone is neutral, verifiable and not dependent upon original research it is not a violation of
WP:BLP.
Otto4711 (
talk)
04:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - accidentally causing the death of another person is certainly defining of the accidental killer.
Ted Kennedy for example may very well have been president had it not been for his accidentally killing
Mary Jo Kopechne. Again, this is in no way a violation of
WP:BLP so long as those included in the category are established through independent reliable sources. If the current name is a problem then the rename suggested by Cgingold addresses it.
Otto4711 (
talk)
02:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Shopping centres in Avon
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The result of the discussion was:keep current name. Feel free to nominate again if someone comes up with "a better means of categorising things ... in the former county".
Good Ol’factory(talk)22:07, 21 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: DeleteAvon is a local government district that was abolished in 1996. Few if any local people identify with Avon any more and now use North Somerset / Bath & North East Somerset / Bristol / South Gloucestershire to identify the area. It is wrong to use a category such as this to group new items in a non-existent area. The only justification for using any Avon-related category is for items which were directly related to the county.
TimTay (
talk)
10:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Retain category. The area which was administered by Avon CC, 1974-96, is now administered by the four unitary local authorities, outside the control of the current county councils of Gloucestershire and Somerset. Three of the UAs are within the so-called "traditional counties" of Gloucestershire and Somerset, but policy as I understand it is that those areas should not be used for categorising anything other than historic features. Bristol itself was a separate county after the 14th century. The area of former Avon now has no agreed area-wide name (although the term
West of England is sometimes used), and the term Avon is generally regarded by many organisations as the "least bad" description for the area. Hence, it should continue to be used for those categories which group current features of the area such as shopping centres.
Ghmyrtle (
talk)
12:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
I don't see why Avon, which was abolished in 1996, should be used to categorise shopping centres, all of which were built after 1996. If you take a look at
Category:Shopping centres in England you will see that there is relatively little categorisation, but that which exists is tied to specific and well defined areas such as Greater Manchester, London and Yorkshire. This category is now redundant as its former constituents have now been re-categorised into their proper areas. --
TimTay (
talk)
13:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
The examples which you cite, such as Greater Manchester, Tyne and Wear, are also areas which no longer exist as administrative areas in precisely the same way as Avon. However, they remain useful areas for categories such as shopping centres. (By the way, even if you are using the term shopping centre to mean an enclosed mall, many opened before 1996, such as
Merry Hill (1985) - if that is relevant.)
Ghmyrtle (
talk)
14:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep until some one can suggest a better means of categorising things (not just shopping centres) in the former county. Here in the West Midlands, the former metropolitan county continues to be used as a postal address. Four of the seven boroughs work together as the Black Country.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
00:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Collections of the Getty
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Hmmm. I find "Getty Museum" is pretty standard usage by everyone except the Getty bunch themselves, perhaps we could rename to that. The
Getty Villa and the collections visible at the
Getty Center are the two locations of the
J. Paul Getty Museum, so ambiguity is not an issue in fact. Really there is no need to change I think.
Johnbod (
talk)
01:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)reply
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