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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 23:22, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Zaza nationalism

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Zaza nationalism (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Fails GNG in that it is a controversial movement looking for recognition. See this journal article, and this one which is cited in the article. Atsme Talk 📧 20:04, 8 May 2020 (UTC) Added underlined source. 20:48, 8 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. Atsme Talk 📧 20:04, 8 May 2020 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Atsme Talk 📧 20:04, 8 May 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, whilst the article clearly needs a clean-up, this appears to be a legit article topic. See for example "Soon Zaza nationalism began to flourish in Turkey and Iran, with some Zazas calling for the creation of a separate Zaza state called either Zazaistan or Dersim. In 1991, Zaza nationalism was further boosted when the Turkish government..." [1], "This Zaza 'nationalism' still largely a matter of exile politics..." [2], "The birth of modern Zaza nationalism in the diaspora began as a marginal phenomenon, but gradually it began to influence the debate among the Zazas inside Turkey and Iran. A minority supported calls for a separate Zazaistan, distinct from..." [3], "Most tribes there do not speak Kurdish proper but a related language called Zaza or KirmanAki; the author is a spokesman for a nascent Zaza nationalism)" [4], " To Zaza nationalists, finally, it threatens to mistakenly treat Zaza speakers as Kurds, rather than as a distinct people or nation." [5], "started claiming that the revolt had been of a Zaza nationalist character, while others called it a 'Zaza-Alevi rebellion'" [6], "Zaza Kurds (their homeland in eastern Turkey is now called "Zazastan"), however, felt their "otherness" and accused the Kurdish majority of ... Zaza nationalism is supported mainly by Alevi Zazas, while Sunni Zazas keep their reservations." [7], "Zaza nationalists , who in the 1980s claimed that the Zaza speakers were a distinct..." [8] -- Soman ( talk) 20:28, 8 May 2020 (UTC) reply
Merge I'm puzzled by the mention of Iran in those references since there are no Zazas there. Nonetheless, the well-sourced information should be merged to Zazas. -- Semsûrî ( talk) 11:31, 10 May 2020 (UTC) reply
I change my vote to support but the article needs a thorough cleaning. -- Semsûrî ( talk) 13:50, 17 May 2020 (UTC) reply

This page has a Turkish version and it should be in an English version. should not be deleted and more information is added over time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.57.129.17 ( talk) 16:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC) reply

References

  1. ^ Victoria R. Williams (24 February 2020). Indigenous Peoples: An Encyclopedia of Culture, History, and Threats to Survival [4 volumes]. ABC-CLIO. p. 1194. ISBN  978-1-4408-6118-5.
  2. ^ Kehl-Bodrogi; Otter-Beaujean; Barbara Kellner-Heikele (13 November 2018). Syncretistic Religious Communities in the Near East: Collected Papers of the International Symposium “Alevism in Turkey and Comparable Syncretistic Religious Communities in the Near East in the Past and Present”, Berlin, 14-17 April 1995. BRILL. p. 16. ISBN  978-90-04-37898-8.
  3. ^ James Minahan; Peter T. Wendel (2002). Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations: S-Z. Greenwood Publishing Group. p. 2100. ISBN  978-0-313-32384-3.
  4. ^ Martin Van Bruinessen (2000). Kurdish Ethno-Nationalism Versus Nation-Building States: Collected Articles. “The” Isis Press. p. 117. ISBN  978-975-428-177-4.
  5. ^ Paul Joseph White; Joost Jongerden (2003). Turkey's Alevi Enigma: A Comprehensive Overview. BRILL. p. 197. ISBN  90-04-12538-8.
  6. ^ Die Welt des Islams. D. Reimer. 2008. p. 122.
  7. ^ Asian and African Studies. Vydavatel̕stvo Slovenskej akadémie vied. 2007. p. 18.
  8. ^ Martin van Bruinessen (2000). Mullas, Sufis and Heretics: The Role of Religion in Kurdish Society : Collected Articles. Isis Press. p. 54. ISBN  978-975-428-162-0.
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 11:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC) reply

I don't think it should be deleted. Benahol ( talk) 01:01, 15 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC) reply
Soman, sorry but the sources you provided actually confirm why the article should be deleted. Nationalism is defined by dictionaries and having Zaza precede it, doesn't make the combination notable for a stand alone encyclopedic article. The sources you cited fail to establish notability; rather it is simple terminology in passing mention. Atsme Talk 📧 23:19, 16 May 2020 (UTC) reply
Sorry, that's not how to read there references. The references indicate that there is such a movement and it has sufficient degree of notability to warrant a separate article, in part demonstrated through the fact that many scholars study it. The fact that the notion that Zazas constitute a separate national or ethnic group is contested by Kurdish nationalists doesn't disqualify the notability of the subject. We also have "Aynı şekilde günümüzde Zazalar (Dimli) Kürt kökenli olduklarına dair iddialara karşı çıkıyorlar. Özellikle 20. yüzyılın son on yılında ayrı bir Zaza milliyetçiliği daha göze çarpar hale geldi ve olası bir Zazaistan ulus-devletinin haritaları Kürdistan..." [1], "and it coined the new name of Zazaistan for the ancient homeland of this nation.52 This journal appears to have had only a very small circle of readers initially, but precisely because it met with very angry Kurdish reactions, its thesis that the Zazas are a doubly oppressed people gained credibility, and gradually growing numbers of Zazas were won over to its views." [2], "semble pas concerner uniquement les Kurdes , car certaines organisations alevies , revendiquant la création d ' un État d ' Alevistan en Anatolie ainsi que des groupes prônant le nationalisme zaza et la création d ' un Zazaistan , en relèvent" [3], "Das neu erdachte Heimatland Zazaistan wird ebenfalls kaum eine starke Anziehungskraft ausüben, abgesehen von einigen romantischen Intellektuellen im Exil, aber das kulturelle Wiederaufleben der Zaza und ein gewisser Ärger über die..." [4], "Bei ihnen verschmolz eine seit jeher stark ausgeprägte regionale Sonderidentität nun zu einer über die Sprache definierten ethnischen Identität mit der Forderung nach Autonomie für ihr Verbreitungsgebiet „Zazastan" bzw. „Alevistan"". [5] -- Soman ( talk) 23:55, 16 May 2020 (UTC) reply

References

  1. ^ Hakan Özoğlu (2005). Osmanlı devleti ve Kürt milliyetçiliği. Kitap Yayinevi Ltd. p. 155. ISBN  978-975-6051-02-3.
  2. ^ Fāliḥ ʻAbd al-Jabbār; Hosham Dawod (2006). The Kurds: Nationalism and Politics. Saqi. p. 41. ISBN  978-0-86356-825-1.
  3. ^ Alain Jund (1995). Enjeux de l'immigration turque en Europe: les Turcs en France et en Europe : actes du colloque international de Strasbourg, 25-26 février 1991. CIEMI. p. 138. ISBN  978-2-7384-3527-9.
  4. ^ Carsten Borck; Eva Savelsberg; Siamend Hajo (1997). Ethnizität, Nationalismus, Religion und Politik in Kurdistan. Lit. p. 211. ISBN  978-3-8258-3420-3.
  5. ^ Erhard Franz; Deutsches Orient-Institut (2003). Entwicklungen und Widersprüche: zum 80-jährigen Bestehen der Republik Türkei : ausgewählte Betiräge 1999-2003. Deutsches Orient-Institut. p. 108. ISBN  978-3-89173-083-6.
See WP:SYNTH and WP:FRINGE. I would not object to merging the relevant parts that are worth keeping into Zazas. Atsme Talk 📧 13:21, 17 May 2020 (UTC) reply
In what sense does WP:SYNTH apply here? And out of the 13 references presented here, which are WP:FRINGE sources? -- Soman ( talk) 16:18, 17 May 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Obviously appropriate expansion of the relevant portion of the Zazas article. It had nothing whatsoever to do with SYNTH, as it is clearly based on sources. FRINGE is altogether irrelevant to political movements of this sort, unless it is intended as a claim that only a few people are doing it and therefore it isn't important. first,t he sources seem to show otherwise, and second, if it gets sufficientc overage, then even a small political movement is important. DGG ( talk ) 23:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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