- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Doko Demo Issyo. The Wordsmith Talk to me 20:02, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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- Toro Inoue ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Not sure if this passes GNG after trying to find a good source at google search; the birthday party and a pride thing are the only useful sources. GreenishPickle! ( 🔔) 12:39, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. CptViraj ( talk) 12:54, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment There's at least one piece of
WP:SIGCOV
here from a cursory glance. He's been the protagonist of numerous games so far, enough to comprise a series larger than most video game series. I'm still not sure whether he is notable, but it's almost certainly going to involve solely Japanese sources.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
13:47, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- There's also
this article, which says "Toro is firmly established as a cultural icon in the Far East". Not significant coverage in itself, but indicative that there's more to be found somewhere.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
13:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Found another piece of SIGCOV here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 13:53, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- There's also
this article, which says "Toro is firmly established as a cultural icon in the Far East". Not significant coverage in itself, but indicative that there's more to be found somewhere.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
13:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Weak keep In addition to the above sources, I found this significant coverage as part of a feature on animal stars in games in a Chinese magazine. In my opinion, this is sufficient to make him squeak by notability. Additionally, I would expect more coverage to exist given his high profile in Japan. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 15:50, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Doko Demo Issyo. Now that the article has been created, I am more comfortable with merging the character there due to the lack of many sources about him. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 22:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Create
Doko Demo Issyo and redirect there I searched for Japanese articles about Toro Inoue and the ones I found are primarily about the
Doko Demo Issyo series which he is the mascot of.
[1]
[2] We don't have an article for that series, but I would support creating that article and having this page redirect there.
TarkusAB
talk/
contrib
17:29, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- The question is whether the series is mentioned as a whole in sufficient RS. I've found a couple for various games in the series, but never enough to meet GNG. Also this is dismissing the fact that he is most likely a notable character. If the series is also notable, both can exist.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
21:49, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- The two sources I linked discuss the series directly and in detail. A series article would be a good central place to talk about the games as well as Toro.
TarkusAB
talk/
contrib
21:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- It does seem like the series is notable, but you have yet to say whether you believe Toro himself is notable. It's pretty common to have articles on both a series and their protagonist, I don't see why this would be an exception to the rule.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
09:52, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- Zx, with respect, you always seem to be under the impression that if a subject is notable by Wikipedia's definition, then a stand-alone article is justifiable without exception. We can assess each case independently on whether it is merited ("presumed" part of GNG). I do think that Toro is a "notable" subject (in the general sense of the term), but it's a weak case for a stand-alone Wikipedia article. The sources you listed are all short blurbs, except the article about his (and other characters') birthday event. There isn't much to say about him; the article would be short. Given the fact that Doko Demo Issyo is the parent subject, and Toro is often discussed in context of the series, I think it would be more effective to have one article about the series and its games, with a section about Toro as sort of being a legacy of the series.
TarkusAB
talk/
contrib
19:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what's so odd about thinking that -
WP:NOTMERGE says that merging should be avoided if "The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short." Your entire argument hinges around articles being too short, which the page explicitly says should not be used as a rationale unless they are "one or two sentences" long, which is much shorter than the current state of the article, much less its potential size when expanded. The point is that merging is entirely up to personal opinion/consensus, but there is no rule requiring short notable articles to be merged unless people decide it so.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
07:28, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- I never said there were any rules in play, you did. That's why I responded the way I did. Anyways, I would not call these subjects "discrete". TarkusAB talk/ contrib 09:53, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what's so odd about thinking that -
WP:NOTMERGE says that merging should be avoided if "The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short." Your entire argument hinges around articles being too short, which the page explicitly says should not be used as a rationale unless they are "one or two sentences" long, which is much shorter than the current state of the article, much less its potential size when expanded. The point is that merging is entirely up to personal opinion/consensus, but there is no rule requiring short notable articles to be merged unless people decide it so.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
07:28, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- Zx, with respect, you always seem to be under the impression that if a subject is notable by Wikipedia's definition, then a stand-alone article is justifiable without exception. We can assess each case independently on whether it is merited ("presumed" part of GNG). I do think that Toro is a "notable" subject (in the general sense of the term), but it's a weak case for a stand-alone Wikipedia article. The sources you listed are all short blurbs, except the article about his (and other characters') birthday event. There isn't much to say about him; the article would be short. Given the fact that Doko Demo Issyo is the parent subject, and Toro is often discussed in context of the series, I think it would be more effective to have one article about the series and its games, with a section about Toro as sort of being a legacy of the series.
TarkusAB
talk/
contrib
19:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- It does seem like the series is notable, but you have yet to say whether you believe Toro himself is notable. It's pretty common to have articles on both a series and their protagonist, I don't see why this would be an exception to the rule.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
09:52, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- The two sources I linked discuss the series directly and in detail. A series article would be a good central place to talk about the games as well as Toro.
TarkusAB
talk/
contrib
21:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- The question is whether the series is mentioned as a whole in sufficient RS. I've found a couple for various games in the series, but never enough to meet GNG. Also this is dismissing the fact that he is most likely a notable character. If the series is also notable, both can exist.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ)
21:49, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Restructure per Tarkus' suggestion. I feel given the unique nature of this subject that may be the best route.-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 21:07, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Animal. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further thoughts on creating a separate article?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 04:02, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I have just now created Doko Demo Issyo, which I mentioned above as a possible redirect target. TarkusAB talk/ contrib 18:08, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Merge into Doko Demo Issyo. They're both notable subjects, but not independently so. - Cukie Gherkin ( talk) 05:38, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to series article. The series is definitely notable and this character can be covered there, in context. Shooterwalker ( talk) 17:04, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.