The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
I am afraid this fails
WP:NBIO. The subject had an average career, and does not seem to have received any awards, nor held positions that grant auto-notability. There is also not much in the terms of in-depth coverage, through it does seem that his brush with death and medical operation generated some interviews/coverage (
[1]),
[2]), but I don't think that is sufficient (
WP:ONEEVENT,
WP:INTERVIEW). With all due respect, I am not seeing what makes this individual notable. Not all journalists, even the ones that get on TV, are notable (see also
WP:CREATIVE). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here05:04, 5 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete There is a reasonable amount of "media personality" coverage but it is all very routine. Sure they have "done a good job" but I see nothing that makes them notable, awards, specific creativity, etc.
Aoziwe (
talk)
07:22, 5 March 2019 (UTC)reply
delete Typical local newscaster coverage but nothing to show he's more notable than tens of thousands of other TV newscasters.
Sandals1 (
talk)
22:45, 5 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Question for above two keeps. Sorry I have to ask, but what is the basis for the assertion that the subject is notable? Have they won, eg, a
Walkley or a
Logie? Regards.
Aoziwe (
talk)
13:08, 6 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Winning an award is not the only criteria. WP:CELEBRITY states "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards...Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions....}} which I would contend he has. But it is in vein anyway because this is always overlooked and such articles are always deleted so I really am becoming disponded with engaging anyway --
Whats new?(talk)02:10, 7 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Based the past few AfDs that you mention, I'd think that it is becoming a
WP:COMMONOUTCOME that being a host of a TV show or a news presenter does not constitute "asignificant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions". Truth be told, I would personally veer towards 'it may constitute' for TV show hosts, who are after all named, and sometimes even have the shows named after them. But for regular news presenters (anchors), who are generally anonymous speaking heads to the rest of the world, I don't think this constitutes much for notability. Here is another way of thinking about this: people watch some shows (movies, etc.) not because of the plot or such, but because of the actors/hosts, the names are what drew them to the show. This is what makes one a celebrity. Is this the case here? Webster was a host of the
Sports Tonight (Australian TV program), one of several. Did people tune in to the show for him or for the sport news? Since AFAIK he didn't get any awards or coverage of himself as the above-average host, I think it is the latter, which means I do not think he passes NCELEBRITY or such. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here02:18, 7 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Well then an RfC to change the wording of WP:CELEBRITY might be something worth doing sooner rather than later. As its written now, I think he qualifies. It doesn't state the host has to be a certain level of popular or winner of an award. It states "significant roles in multiple [productions]" and I would think hosting a national sports television program, sports anchor on the primetime news bulletin, and hosting multiple radio programs (especially his current role taking over from the legendary Bob Rogers!) meets that qualification. Establishing notability shouldn't be about being more popular than someone else with an established article, it should be about meeting a notability requirement independently, and I think he and others similar meet this. I appear to be in a minority, at least at AfDs, but that's my view. --
Whats new?(talk)02:40, 7 March 2019 (UTC)reply
My apologies, my argument was lacking. My belief that this article has enough merit to remain on Wikipedia is based on the facts that this person has had significant roles in multiple television shows and radio programs and has been the subject of numerous comedy acts in Australia, referenced in Internet memes demonstrating a position in the public consciousness and popular culture. Meets the criteria for
WP:CELEBRITY.
Unoc (
talk)
10:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)reply
You are beginning to sway me. Do you have any more? I suggest that the Steve Irwin ref is not at all a serious one, at least one of these seems to be BY Webster so does not count, and a couple are behind paywalls, but there are few good ones too.
Aoziwe (
talk)
10:44, 14 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Even excluding those you've mentioned, there is more than enough sources to meet
WP:BASIC requirement of "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources". The other references used in the article with less significant coverage also add up to further demonstrate notability (first bullet point of WP:BASIC). -
Samuel Wiki (
talk)
01:25, 15 March 2019 (UTC)reply
[11] - nice find, half interview, but the other half seems like proper analysis, so I think it passes.
[12] - I think this is more about the show and not about him, with the subject being discussed in passing, so nope.
[13] - almost entirely based on quotes from the subject, so fail.
[15] - half press release, half quotes from the subject, fail
[16] - this is written by the subject, so complete fail per PRIMARY
[17] - seems effectively based on the above and/or an interview with him, and contains too much quotes and not enough independent analysis IMHO to constitute in-depth coverage, also focuses on a single incident in his life, so further fails in-depth
[18] That's a more serious (less quotes, more analysis) treatment of the same incident. Reliable, but again focusing only on a single incident from his life. Can someone be notable when majority of coverage is about
WP:ONEEVENT?
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.