The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to
Draft:The Prom (2020 film). Since the merge target is in draftspace, this is effectively a "draftify" result and the mainspace page will be deleted after I copy the expanded content to the draft page.
RL0919 (
talk)
19:17, 3 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Completely fails
WP:NFF. Filming is not due to begin until the winter time which is months away. The article does not have an extensive production history as it was only announced to be happening today, so it doesn’t merit mainspace status yet. This is why I created
Draft:The Prom (2020 film). To build it out of mainspace until it begins filming. Until then however it fails the necessary criteria. I wouldn’t be opposed to it being merged into the draft and remaining in draftspace.
Rusted AutoParts21:56, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Recent edits to the page increased its source count but ultimately are just saying the same thing to cite the same information. It’s a bit excessive as well.
Rusted AutoParts00:34, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
KeepNeutral My interpretation from some of the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Notability (films) is that if a film meets
WP:GNG then it's presumed notable and
WP:NFF, as a subject-specific notability guideline, can't override the policy that is
WP:GNG. (If you think I'm misinterpreting, let me know). This subject meets
WP:GNG, despite all coverage being extremely recent. There's enough verifiable information to form a useful stub. Trying to incubate the content as a section in
Ryan Murphy or something would be awkward, IMO. (And incubating it in draft space would be a disservice to readers looking for information about the film now.)
Colin M (
talk)
01:08, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
The film does not meet GNG. It’s only just been announced. The entire thing could get scrapped between now and December. That’s why the caveat at NFF is that a project should be filming. The Marvel movies develop within the draftspace until they start filming despite having a lot of coverage due to their immense popularity. But again, there’s no guarantees to the films actual go ahead until cameras roll. And The Prom Just does not even have the notability safety net the Marvel movies would have, even now when it’s only just been announced today that they plan to make this movie. It would only be a disservice to the reader if the film is actually filming. But for now they can easily look it up on IMDB or other sites. We should not assume it’s going to occur until it actually occurs.
Rusted AutoParts01:24, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Having a detailed source or multiple sources in one day doesn’t equate to a significant coverage. All those sources are just repeating the same information. Look at
Akira (2021 film) (another article in the mainspace I feel is too soon). Look at the detail in it. The Prom has nowhere near that detail to even have consideration for an exception. One day of coverage doesn’t cut it. I’ll offer more examples, look at what happened to
Mouse Guard or
Blood Meridian. Two pretty high profiles projects that got shut down before filming began. If it can happen to those two it can happen to any film so it’s really only common sense to err on the side of caution.
Rusted AutoParts03:43, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Okay, I'm seeing where you're coming from. My initial thought was that even if the project were cancelled tomorrow, it would still be notable, and it would be worthwhile to have an article on the failed production. But on further consideration, if that happened, it would probably make more sense to describe it in
The Prom (musical), as happened with the Blood Meridian adaptation you mentioned, which is now described at
Blood Meridian#Attempted film adaptations. Another factor is that I realized the coverage is based on some kind of 'inside source' rather than any official announcement. That said, I'm still not particularly enthusiastic about deleting/draftifying for the reasons mentioned above (I think the current content is useful to readers, and still think it meets GNG), so I've changed my !vote to 'neutral' for now.
Colin M (
talk)
14:50, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Draftify Last year
I removed more than 40 films that were announced but never made within five years at
List of Walt Disney Pictures films and another user
recently removed another 100+ announced films that had not been confirmed to be in production, many of which even had cast signed on. While this isn't Disney and this announcement seems pretty comprehensive, this is obviously premature for an article and should only be at
The_Prom_(musical)#Film for now. Duplicative coverage of the announcement in the Hollywood media is
NEWS to me and does not establish notability yet, and content can be preserved in the musical article while the crystal ball is glowing.
Reywas92Talk01:20, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Draftify, obviously without prejudice against moving it back into mainspace if and when it finally clears the notability bar for films. The test for films is not "as soon as it's been announced as entering the production pipeline" — our actual rule is that no film should ever have a Wikipedia article before principal photography has started, and even then it still usually has to be an extremely high-profile film (e.g. a new entry in the Star Wars, Star Trek or Marvel franchises) that gets a lot more ongoing production coverage than the norm, with the vast majority of films still confined to the "not until we can properly source that a confirmed release date has been set" test. And, in fact, not all films that enter the production pipeline ever actually come out the end as finished films — sometimes even films that have started photography still collapse, or get delayed for years by production problems, or end up so bad that no distributor even wants to touch them anymore, which is precisely why even the photography phase isn't in and of itself an automatic inclusion freebie for every film. In all likelihood, this will qualify for an article sometime in 2020 when its release is imminent, but just because casting of a few lead roles has been announced isn't in and of itself enough yet.
Bearcat (
talk)
15:59, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep, I think this may be an exception to convention. Even if cancelled that alone would generate reams of media and many rounds of explanations. This is about as high-profile as a film ever gets pre-everything. Top streaming service, top movie studio, top producer, A-list celebs, some of the most high-profiles for each of their fields and generations. Already better sourced than one would expect.
Gleeanon409 (
talk)
17:45, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
That's just incorrect. There is not enough history or sources for the project to warrant a potential cancellation exemption, nor an exemption to convention until it starts filming.
Rusted AutoParts18:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
That's not nice. In their four months, Gleeanon409 has contributed a huge quantity of high-quality contributions over the course of ~1,500 edits. They've also created over a dozen mainspace articles, none of which has been deleted, so I think they do know a thing or two about notability. And even if they didn't have a high edit count, dismissing someone's opinion
simply because they're new(ish?) to the project is rude and
doesn't advance the discussion.
Colin M (
talk)
21:12, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
I can see why you’d think I was being rude but that wasn’t the intent. I said that cause that’s how I felt once upon a time. I had a few articles I created get put up for deletion that I felt strongly about keeping. But I just gradually developed an understanding that films regardless of coverage can just fall apart. That’s all, no malicious intent was meant.
Rusted AutoParts23:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep. I created the stub (which has since been expanded by other editors as well), and sorry if that conflicts with a draft page created the same day. I acknowledge and respect the opinions shared above, but I'd rather just see the article kept for expansion as additional details are confirmed. I understand some other editors take a very strict approach only keeping articles about films in production, but if the page is just going to be recreated in a couple months, then let's just keep and move on... ---
Another Believer(
Talk)21:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
It can easily be expanded in draftspace until it films, which is why I put it there in the first place. Anything can happen in the next six months. So it’s not wise to keep it in mainspace.
Rusted AutoParts21:41, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Cause it’s important to me to contest the points. It doesn’t make sense to keep it in mainspace on two fronts:premature cause of the filming and premature cause of it only being announced yesterday. The mainspace article can easily be merged with the draft, be kept in draftspace than moved into mainspace once the filming begins. But it’s not wise to keep it in mainspace so early.
Rusted AutoParts21:45, 26 June 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.