The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There was mention of redirect but I'm not seeing a target, he's not mentioned at List of members of the AVN Hall of Fame. Feel free to create a redirect to an appropriate target. J04n( talk page) 12:08, 16 April 2018 (UTC) reply

Tag Adams

Tag Adams (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

A page on an unremarkable performer. Significant RS coverage not found. Does not meet WP:NACTOR / WP:PORNBIO. Awards listed are not significant; Grabby Awards do not qualify. The crime and conviction information is cited to a blog of unknown provenance. Delete on WP:N and WP:BLP grounds. K.e.coffman ( talk) 23:56, 22 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Update: I would be fine with a "delete & redirect" to GayVN_Awards#2005. BLP concerns still remain. -- K.e.coffman ( talk) 23:13, 31 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. MT Train ^Talk 03:05, 23 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. MT Train ^Talk 03:05, 23 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k ( talk) 13:06, 23 March 2018 (UTC) reply

"A page on an unremarkable performer" - a personal opinion. someone who made around 50 movies can't be that unremarkable, surely.

There are two GayVN awards listed which qualify other articles for inclusion. It is not just the Grabby awards in the article.

And the blog of "unknown provenance" is no more unknown than 100s of thousands of other links on Wikipedia.

I think it is an interesting article, well-written. I can think of loads of other articles ripe for deletion before this one. Where do I vote to keep it Cannonmc ( talk) 00:43, 24 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Delete - No evidence of notability, hasnt won any notable/significent awards, Fails PORNBIO & GNG. – Davey2010 ^Talk 01:06, 25 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep - His two GayVN awards are notable enough to be listed on the Wikipedia page GayVN Awards Cannonmc ( talk) 00:01, 26 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep and stubify. The nom's analysis is mostly on target, but the GayVN award for Performer of the Year is likely the most significant award given to gay porn performers and creates a presumption of notability. The existing text surely merits TNT-ing, though. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. ( talk) 23:59, 30 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Nom's comment: the awards by themselves, absent sources, have not been sufficient at the recent AfDs. The best that can be done is to redirect the page to GayVN_Awards#2005. Compare to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sascha (actor), a hall of fame inductee, which closed as a redirect. Given that the content in the Adams case is BLP violating, "delete & redirect" is the way to go.
• Keep - Could we have a little less Wikipedia jargon and a little more plain English. I am having difficulty in following the arguments for deleting, those I do follow I disagree with. I came across a biographical article yesterday where the subject had nothing more notable than he had made some movies. No sign of anyone wanting to delete that. I do feel there are more important concerns on Wikipedia than the deletion of this one page which at least gives some information. Cannonmc ( talk) 08:34, 4 April 2018 (UTC) reply

I've struck your !vote as you've already !voted. – Davey2010 ^Talk 01:48, 5 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Further nom's comment: so far the two keep votes are along the lines of "it's notable" and "other stuff exists". No sources have been presented as part of this discussion to substantiate the votes. Meanwhile, BLP concerns remain re: crime attributed to the subject. K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:37, 5 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Keep's further comment I have no idea how votes work so I didn't realise that I counted as voting twice. I am still at a loss to know why the 'nom' is so obsessed about this one insignificant page which is at least written in English. I don't know what extra he seems to want. And I could point him to dozens of Wikipedia articles which use English words but make no sense at all which are far more suitable to be ditched Cannonmc ( talk) 14:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Delete - trying to use an award presented by a free local biweekly is not going to meet WP:PORNBIO requirements.-- Rpclod ( talk) 17:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Yet another comment Not wuite sure which 'free local biweekly' is referred to but GAYVN Awards merit a Wikipedia page of their own and are quoted extensively on other pages. Now could we forget this page and move onto bigger stuff like the numerous scientific, medical or financial pages that are unreadable and incomprehensible? Cannonmc ( talk) 00:47, 10 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Delete and redirect: Serious BLP concerns including the arrest and prison time. The subject was arrested, convicted, and served time as Kelly Kreitz that is the subjects legal name. The main reference is a specialized magazine as Metro Weekly is listed as Washington's LGBTQ Magazine and the same with Gay Chicago Magazine. Otr500 ( talk) 07:58, 11 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Comment. The article subject won the GayVN Award for "Performer of the Year", which is the best-known and most significant award given in his field. If we delete this article outright (as opposed to reducing it to a stub), we're essentially overriding the hard-fought consensus that awards can be indicators of notability in the field of gay porn, deciding that they are not at all. I believe that they are very bad indicators, but dismissing the highest-level award pretty much writes this criterion out of the notability guideline. I'm not unwilling to do that, but I believe it's something that, if it's done, should be done in a broader discussion than a single AfD. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. ( talk) 16:35, 14 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Compare with: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sascha (actor), which closed as redirect, withe following rationale:

• The result was "redirect to List of members of the AVN Hall of Fame". Editors who argued in favour of keeping this article largely cited WP:PORNBIO as the subject is a member of the AVN Hall of Fame. While true, this is a guideline on notability, and does not replace the core requirement for articles to have been the subject of secondary sources of reliable information, as argued by delete/redirect voters. No such reliable secondary sources were presented and no convincing arguments were made that a lack of independent sources was acceptable. I thus find that there is a stronger argument against keeping the article, with a redirect being the most sensible option.

I believe the same rationale applies here, and even more strongly given that the content is BLP violating. K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:29, 16 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Delete - Is there any indication that "Performer of the Year" for the GAYVN Awards is notable? Without that, I cannot see how he passes any of the qualities mentioned in WP:PORNBIO because he certainly doesn't pass two or three. TheGracefulSlick ( talk) 03:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.