- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Cheesecake. Liz Read! Talk! 04:36, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Smoked salmon cheesecake
AfDs for this article:
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- Smoked salmon cheesecake ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Lack of notability - this article mentions a cake that combines two flavors, and notes barely more than its existence. This would make an alright redirect/section on Cheesecake, but it is not necessary to have a separate article. Cf. discussion on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pineapple_cheesecake. RudolfSchreier ( talk) 15:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. RudolfSchreier ( talk) 15:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. The nominator proposes deletion, but puts forward a rationale that is essentially calling for merge and redirect. It was brought out in the previous AFD that several iconic cookery books have covered this dish, and that it appears in several books of prize-winning recipes, so it is a prize-winning dish.
Spinning
Spark
16:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- I apologize - I was unaware that the desired outcome of "merge and redirect" was not to be achieved through the AFD process. As you point out, I would be happy to keep the content, simply not the article - which I don't see moving past stub status.
RudolfSchreier (
talk)
17:14, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- "Merge and redirect" is a valid outcome at AFD, but if that is the desired outcome of the nominator, it is rarely a good idea to bring it here. It is usually far less confrontational to propose a merge at the article talk (for which there are standard templates). This ensures the regular editors at the proposed target are involved in the decision too – the group most likely to be cheesecake knowledgeable. Once you are here, you are in court with an adverserial mentality. I am still deciding whether I would actually support a merge. I want to see if I can find some of the sources mentioned in the previous AFD first to see how much this might be capable of expansion. Spinning Spark 20:55, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- I apologize - I was unaware that the desired outcome of "merge and redirect" was not to be achieved through the AFD process. As you point out, I would be happy to keep the content, simply not the article - which I don't see moving past stub status.
RudolfSchreier (
talk)
17:14, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - is there a notability criteria for recipes? In the absense of anything else, there appear to be many online and offline sources which give recipes. Isn't that enough?
JMWt (
talk)
17:31, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- I could not find any criteria at all, I'm afraid. I looked into the deletion of "Pineapple cheesecake" and extrapolated from there:
- Would I want to see separate pages for strawberry cheesecake, raspberry cheesecake, etc.? No, if simply for the fact that those pages would have very little to contribute that the Cheesecake article wouldn't cover.
- Could this be a section on the Cheesecake article? Yes, like Chicago-style cheesecake and New York cheesecake are right now. RudolfSchreier ( talk) 17:49, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- That's not how we usually determine notability. A bunch of published books including a recipe would appear to satisfy the GNG as far as I can tell.
JMWt (
talk)
18:31, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- If that is policy, then keeping the article would be consistent with it. To me personally, it paints an unfortunate picture of what Wikipedia could look like given enough bored editors. RudolfSchreier ( talk) 18:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- That's not how we usually determine notability. A bunch of published books including a recipe would appear to satisfy the GNG as far as I can tell.
JMWt (
talk)
18:31, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
- Pineapple cheesecake is not a good comparision here. As was said in the AFD, pineapples are just one of may fruits that can be used in cheesecake. Smoked salmon is something radically different. Spinning Spark 21:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist111 ( talk) 05:58, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
DeleteI think we need more than a how-to book for this (a recipe book is basically instructions), some sort of critical discussion in RS. This is about all I found [1] and it's a passing mention. If this was a car, we wouldn't use a Hayes manual on how to fix it for a reliable source, we'd need a discussion about the car. Same idea here. I don't see any sources discussing the cheesecake. Oaktree b ( talk) 13:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is further support for a Merge or Redirect of this article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)- Merge to the cheesecake article seems ok Oaktree b ( talk) 15:05, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete; Merge to Cheesecake at best. Recipes are only notable if someone writes about the recipe, which is exceptionally rare except in the case of historic or revolutionary recipes. Dishes are more typically notable. Number of books that contain a recipe seldom support notability for the recipe, but they can indicate the dish is likely notable and more investigation is needed. This to me looks like a variation on cheesecake, and there are literally hundreds if not thousands of those. I'm not seeing support for it being a notable variation. Valereee ( talk) 22:49, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete While a mention in Cheesecake is acceptable, that's something that comes in so many flavors and variations we don't need to include anything for which recipes exist. Reywas92 Talk 05:36, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge I don't see sufficient coverage of the recipe to justify an article (as per Valereee). A merge to cheesecake of any material editors see fit would be appropriate. Bondegezou ( talk) 14:00, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.