Wikipedia:articles For Deletion Rain (mortal Kombat)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of Mortal Kombat characters. Merge as an alternative to deletion. Liz ^{Read!
Talk!} 20:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Rain (Mortal Kombat)

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Like Cyrax, Sektor and Skarlet, no longer meets WP:GNG standards. Rain has been playable in only four games since his addition as a Prince-inspired joke character nearly three decades ago (his lone claim to fame). No viable third-party coverage and reception consists of listicles and unreliable sources. Should be merged/redirected to the list of MK characters. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 20:17, 29 September 2022 (UTC) reply

Please do not delete the page. Explain the problem more deeply. This is a good article, like other Mortal Kombat Articles, they all need to stay. How can I help? What changes should I make? Where should the article change? Thank you 2601:5C7:4100:3600:519:5331:6020:59B5 ( talk) 20:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC) — 2601:5C7:4100:3600:519:5331:6020:59B5 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Video games. Skynxnex ( talk) 20:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC) reply
Merge to the relevant list of fictional characters. Andre 🚐 23:43, 29 September 2022 (UTC) reply
I am not sure I understand. I ask any Administrator who sees this discussion for help, but to NOT delete the article. It is important, just as the rest. I Oppose the deletion of this article. Oppose/Keep 2601:5C7:4100:3600:3CB5:B0FD:516C:D555 ( talk) 01:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC) — 2601:5C7:4100:3600:3CB5:B0FD:516C:D555 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Redirect Slapping together a bunch of trivial coverage does not an article make, just padding to give the illusion of notability. The article does not indicate the character was important to non-fans. See also WP:WPINWA. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 05:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC) reply
There is a lot of articles like that. Why prey on this one? 2601:5C7:4100:3600:61A2:2109:1849:6506 ( talk) 14:55, 30 September 2022 (UTC)— 2601:5C7:4100:3600:61A2:2109:1849:6506 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply

This is the third single-purpose account disrupting this discussion and most likely the same user, as their writing styles are the same. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 15:39, 30 September 2022 (UTC) reply

IP address can inadvertently be swapped so I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not trying to appear like multiple people on purpose. That said, see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS for the answer to that question. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 19:50, 30 September 2022 (UTC) reply

OK, that’s good to know. Thanks. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 21:09, 30 September 2022 (UTC) reply

I do not appreciate that, I am not trying to disrupt anyone, I am a constructive editor here on Wikipedia.

I oppose this articles deletion. The fact that it is nominated for deletion is bullshit. There is nothing wrong with the

Article, please explain the problem to me in full, in-depth detail, and I will report it to Wikipedia and Top Admins and solve the problem; Let's not rock the boat for anyone, shall we? 2601:5C7:4100:3600:4D4:D5A6:4141:9E32 ( talk) 00:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Please remain WP:CIVIL, insults will not help your case at all. It was already explained why the article is problematic. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 04:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Zxcvbnm But I wouldn't mind seeing the Magic of Top Admins and how they'd rescue this article :) Then we can watch Flying Pigs in Snowing Hell feature next. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here} 05:34, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Merge and redirect to List_of_Mortal_Kombat_characters. Fails WP:GNG. First paragraph of the reception is the usual listing of listcruft and rankings mentioning him, with the usual laughable (sorry, can't mince the words here) stuff like "ranked Rain 36th in his 2015 rating of the 64 series characters" stuff that pretty much says "he is not important, even in-universe". The second paragraph is no better. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here} 05:32, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Merge - per Piotrus above. That's generally the sort of examination I give these sorts of articles, and it's spot on. Sergecross73 msg me 15:50, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply
For what it's worth, I'm guilty of having padded out the article with such content seven years ago, because back then that was the standard for VG character articles. But of course Wikipedia is constantly evolving as are its notability guidelines, not to mention Rain has still had no more than a minimal presence in the games since then. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 17:20, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply
No insults or tensions wanted, I apologize if I offended anyone. I make my position clear, I oppose the deletion of this article.

Just edit out the problems would be my suggestion. I want to help. 2601:5C7:4100:3600:5CD8:E344:52B1:378F ( talk) 19:27, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Let's not rock the boat, I suggest everyone should list the problems with the Article, and then edit them out instead of deleting it entirely; This will only cause trouble due to the fact of there being no more information on this character. Instead of deletion, fix the problems and keep the article alive so it won't be lost to anyone who looks for him. 2601:5C7:4100:3600:E11A:66EF:A136:CA45 ( talk) 23:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply
The core problem is that there aren't enough third party reliable sources that cover the subject in significant detail, and if that can't be addressed here, then there's no hope for the article. Sergecross73 msg me 23:49, 1 October 2022 (UTC) reply

You are familiar with the MK wiki, I assume? There is a ton of information about all the characters there. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 00:37, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Keep: Like Nightwolf, Rain has received a review and other critical opinions and analyses based on his DLC appearances. We have one from Comicbook.com, Shacknews, GamesRadar, IGN and Bleeding Cool. This also shows he's been reviewed by Fearnet, but the page itself appears to have not been archived. He also has some Valnet sources covering him, but it appears that they are not longer accepted for establishing notability, a decision that I do not agree with, but yeah. Cyrax and Sektor had no such sources (at least from what I could find), fair enough, but Rain does. MoonJet ( talk) 04:57, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Lordy, here we go again with somehow thinking a trailer press-released by NRS announcing a DLC automatically establishes character notability because a few gaming sites pick it up. It does not. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 06:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Spamming random trivial sources is a waste of people's time and energy, please be aware that competence of evaluating sources is needed in editing Wikipedia. Run of the mill announcements are trivial, full stop. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 09:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
If you guys checked the sources, they do more than merely announce Rain as DLC. If what you were saying was true, I would had been listing more here. I mean, if you still think this isn't enough, that's fine, but these are not mere announcements. MoonJet ( talk) 09:16, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Merge to List of Mortal Kombat characters per Piotrus and Zxcvbnm. The refs provided in the article are unreliable refs, trivial overviews from RS, or questionable listicles. I appreciate MoonJet's hardworking efforts in finding refs, and while I disagreed previously with the editor, Moonjet's arguments could be reasonable to other editors. Therefore, thanks for working to save the article and building the consensus. However, I'm afraid I have to disagree with the refs meeting SIGCOV. This is marked as a trailer, thus a routine announcement. A copy-and-paste error from the website caused each of the first two paragraphs to be duplicated. So there are just two paragraphs- the content's first paragraph is a routine overview of the character, followed by a three-sentence casual critical evaluation. I'm not at all convinced that this short paragraph could be considered SIGCOV. Further, the overview from IGN is decent; however, it is, by and large, a gameplay overview. Also, for Comic Book- I should comment that per WP:VG/RS it has inconclusive reliability. And this ref is a trailer, routine gameplay info, and trivial overview. Similarly, this is also routine info on this trailer. Consider WP:GNG's additional note: Moreover, not all coverage in reliable sources constitutes evidence of notability for the purposes of article creation; for example, directories and databases, advertisements, announcements columns, and minor news stories are all examples of coverage that may not actually support notability when examined, despite their existence as reliable sources- to me, these examples all fall under announcement columns or minor news stories. However, many thanks for MoonJet's alternative opinion and overview, which shows a reasonable disagreement in the definition of "trivial" and "announcement columns". VickKiang (talk) 10:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Merge to List of Mortal Kombat characters#Rain, unlike Nightwolf, who had significant coverage that was actually about the character, the only references here are just video game sites covering the launch of a DLC, there is no actual significant coverage of the character themselves in that coverage, just the DLC they came in. Devonian Wombat ( talk) 11:30, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
I am very familiar with Mortal Kombat. There is always hope for the article, we could add more references like you want and merge it to the list then. 2601:5C7:4100:3600:7CC1:3574:DFFC:3096 ( talk) 17:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Could you do better than WP:THEREMAYBESOURCES? VickKiang (talk) 21:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Merge an an WP:ATD. The reception is iffy and I understand why editors think it is not significant. This could still be used to improve the character write-up at the main list. Archrogue ( talk) 20:26, 2 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Keep The sources posted by MoonJet are sufficient to meet GNG. Jclemens ( talk) 02:24, 3 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Merge to List of Mortal Kombat characters per nominator et al. Discounting the obvious loads of non-reliable source currently in the article, the remainder of the coverage, including that brought up in this AFD is either very trivial, or simple routine coverage of announcements and trailers. None of it is sufficient to show that the character is notable enough to have his own article independent of the main article on the franchise characters. Rorshacma ( talk) 02:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC) reply
so will it be merged? is that how we save the article? 2601:5C7:4100:3600:F978:8FFD:64EA:B08E ( talk) 21:28, 5 October 2022 (UTC) reply
Depends on your definition of "save". There had always been a List of Mortal Kombat characters and that is in no danger of being removed. As a group, the franchise's characters are incontrovertibly notable. It's when you get down to individual characters being notable enough for their own pages is where the trouble lies. That is fine on FANDOM but not on Wikipedia per its policies on notability. Nominating these pages for deletion does not necessarily mean all trace of them should be removed from Wikipedia. AfD is often used as a venue for merge discussions when the article is clearly not notable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 03:49, 6 October 2022 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.