- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Axact. Clear consensus that a separate article is not merited here, but no clear consensus between redirect or delete. Given this and that many of the deletes do not argue against a redirect am closing as redirect. Davewild ( talk) 21:30, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
- Paramount California University ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Lack of reliable independent secondary sources per WP:ORG and WP:HOAX. All of the cited sources are self-published, or in the case of the University Herald, not of sufficient reputation for fact-checking. The sole reliable source is a NY Times article including PCU on a long list of universities that are likely fictitious. This is not significant coverage signaling that PCU is a notable hoax. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 19:09, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Speedy delete - not a pure hoax in the Wikipedia sense, but the university itself is a scam. It's a degree mill; not accredited nationally or regionally. —Мандичка YO 😜 19:30, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
conditional keep, if it is possible to reliably expand description of being a degree mill. People need to know about scams. Staszek Lem ( talk) 19:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)- delete (changed the vote) no independent sources. Staszek Lem ( talk) 20:02, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Delete - Seems like a scam which is not notable for Wikipedia. CookieMonster755 (talk) 23:41, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment - also of note is that this was created by a SPA who contributed an article (now deleted) about another scam school - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Upper State New York University USNYU —Мандичка YO 😜 00:48, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Speedy delete as a scam university. The Snowager -is awake 02:05, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 10:28, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 10:28, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Redirect to Axact covered only by NYT, and "university"/Axact-controlled websites with the latter being completely untrustworthy even as SPS'es. Abecedare ( talk) 18:44, 19 May 2015 (UTC) (minor ce to add "only" and "and" for clarity. Abecedare ( talk) 05:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC))
- Found another source: "Even canines can get degrees".
Daily Tribune. 8 March 2015. that talks about a dog getting an MBA from
Rochville University and a journalist being offered a PhD from
Paramount California University for hefty fees (and being harassed by phone calls). But the coverage is still too minor to merit an independent article.
Abecedare (
talk)
18:49, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Good thought. I support the redirect. In fact I'm hitting myself for not coming up with this idea myself, as I could have WP:BLARred and avoided this AfD. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 19:47, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Found another source: "Even canines can get degrees".
Daily Tribune. 8 March 2015. that talks about a dog getting an MBA from
Rochville University and a journalist being offered a PhD from
Paramount California University for hefty fees (and being harassed by phone calls). But the coverage is still too minor to merit an independent article.
Abecedare (
talk)
18:49, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- Redirect per Abecedare - note that we don't delete things simply for being (real-world) hoaxes. ansh 666 04:22, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete-PCU is registered with the State of California and gives clear addresses to their locations in California which gives some transparency. They also have an ".edu" domain which is only granted after meeting Educause requirements. PCU and Axact could be one in the same or could be just an affiliation. I don't think redirecting the article is appropriate unless there is concrete evidence that they are one and the same. My apologies to the admin. for my earlier edits as it was not my attempt to be disruptive or to derail the article. Kohpatmay ( talk) 10:21, 20 May 2015 (UTC) — Kohpatmay ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Speedy delete Hoax university, that clearly isn't notable, and this article is just a advert. Joseph2302 ( talk) 10:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- Redirect to Axact -- perhaps it's not notable on its own, but readers searching for it will be well served by being directed to the article on the parent company. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 10:37, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- Strong delete Non-notable degree mill; and per WP:ADMASQ ukexpat ( talk) 12:32, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- Keep No solid evidence that PCU is affiliated with this IT company. All the schools that are listed on the NY Times article do not have edu domains. PCU is the only one of all 370 schools that holds a edu through educause which you have to prove that you are a legit university in order to receive an edu. Their Business License is currently active in Irvine California. You can type in Paramount California University in the search field --> https://secure.cityofirvine.org/websearch/
https://secure.cityofirvine.org/webreport/?webReportGridChangePage=393_50
Further, when you search their Domain, it comes up with a physical address. I've searched on Linkedin and there are a lot of alumni's in which some who are in high positions including law enforcement
Although they're not accredited by Chea, It's not a SCAM or Hoax as some have claimed. Please be advised that accreditation is "Voluntary" in the United States and universities have the right to not apply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Univers1111 ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC) — Univers1111 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Keep.Delete. It is a bogus university, and Wikipedia provides a valuable service by making this clear. Which it can effectively do by a redirect to Axact. Maproom ( talk) 22:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)- Keep and edit significantly. Being a scam (as opposed to a hoax in the WP sense) is not a reason to delete, much less speedy delete. The NYT article and the Daily Tribune article are enough to make this a notable scam, and there is probably more coverage out there. Facts from those articles should be added, and the purely promotional aspects of the current article removed, but that is just normal editing.
DES
(talk)
22:16, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- A Redirect would also be reasonable. DES (talk) 22:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- Daily Tribune? --
Dr. Fleischman (
talk)
23:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- See this section I just added for consideration by AFD voters (since the Daily Tribune article is not freely accessible online). Still believe that the Paramount California University is better off redirected to Axact since that section is the only reliably sourced content we have on PCU, which is pretty meager and a reader is better of reading the Axact article. Abecedare ( talk) 00:54, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- Daily Tribune? --
Dr. Fleischman (
talk)
23:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment- It may be better off being redirected if there is proof that PCU and Axact are the same. If the decision is being made on these two articles that are less than a week old, then the article should be deleted and maybe re posted at a later date with addendum's. Kohpatmay ( talk) 01:10, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment- If the Tribune article is not accessible then it shouldn't be used as source of information. Also, this was an opinion by the Tribune to conclude that PCU is a "Diploma Mill" and not hard facts. If the reporter would have paid and received the degree within a month, then that would be hard facts. This is not the case. It may be better if you either delete the article or remove the "Tribune" information as it's not accessible to the reader. Also, quoting an expert is not enough as well. Who is the expert that quoted this information? It doesn't say. The NY Times article just came out 3 days ago and Axact is being investigated. It would be better to monitor this page until real hard facts conclude that PCU is in fact a "Diploma Mill" and affiliated with Axact. Moreover, as you can see things are starting to unfold. We should not jump to conclusions just because it's the NY Times. They can be wrong as well. Here's the most up to date information on the Axact situation -> http://tribune.com.pk/story/889849/axact-gate-probe-foreign-experts-might-be-called-in-for-help-says-nisar/ Univers1111 ( talk) 09:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- See WP:SOURCEACCESS -- a source does not have to be available on line. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 08:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment- PCU is also affiliated with California University FCE which is registered with Educause Id#198820 http://cufce.org/affiliatedinstitutions.htm Kohpatmay ( talk) 04:16, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- "California University FCE" is likely to be another fraudulent accreditation agency run by Axact. Till a couple of weeks back their webpage was a subpage of the Paramount California University website. See here. Abecedare ( talk) 04:50, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- Not in any way reliable. The Dept. of Education removed CUFCE from its "Education Resource Organizations Directory" in 2010 after it was discovered that CUFCE was issuing fake college diplomas for $100. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 05:22, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Speedy Keep – Received significant coverage, particularly mention in the New York Times for its scam, which indicates notability. SilverSurfingSerpent ( talk) 16:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC)Sockpuppet vote struck.
- Please see WP:ORGDEPTH. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 04:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.