The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon#Results. Consensus is against keeping. The "keep" minority do not provide any sources in support of their opinions. Redirection to a plausible target is preferred to deletion per WP:ATD. Sandstein 09:56, 27 June 2022 (UTC) reply

Orla Olsen

Orla Olsen (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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Olsen was a non-medaling competitor in the Olympics. We lack any sourced on Olsen that provide any prose. The sportsreference.com source here has no prose. The only other source I found searching google, google books and google news archive with and without the term "runner" was an Olympedia source which also lacks any prose on Olsen. It gets better. There were 57 competitors in the 1928 Olympic marathon that completed. Olsen was not one of those. He was one of the 69 people who started that race but one of 12 who did not finish. So realy about all we know about Olsen was he was in a marathon he did not complete. This is not exactly the thing that notability to the level of having an article is made of. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 16:47, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Denmark. Shellwood ( talk) 16:49, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• There seems to be a little bit more info on the Dansk wiki. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 16:51, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Comment I've noted this continued harassment from JPL at ANI and Arbcom. I think this is his 43rd AfD out of his last 95 targeting me. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:04, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Deletion discussions are not "targeting" the creator of an article. They are seeking to remove articles that do not meet inclusion criteria. Of the 12 on people who started but did not finish the 1928 Olympic marathon, 11 were created by Lugnuts. Some of the others have other points to suggest notability, some do not. Each needs to be considered on their own. To claim that nomination is targeting the article creator is misrepresenting the nature of deletion discussions and claiming ownership, while in fact Wikipedia articles do not have owners. I would like someone to actually tell us what number of articles Lugnuts has created, so that what is actually going in is put in perspective. The number is probably at least 100 times the number of articles created by Lugnuts I have nominated for deletion. As explained over and over again there is an attempt to bring our Olympic articles into line with our Olympic inclusion criteria. This is not aimed at any particular editors work. The most recent Olympic article I nominated for deletion was created by a different editor for example. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:09, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Keep and improve using Danish sources. (see below) I imagine that being the leader of the Danish National Socialist party in 1940 might be sort of notable, as might be being the co-founder of Dansk Nordisk Front in the same year. And that's not considering his role as a collaborator during the occupation of Denmark. Blue Square Thing ( talk) 17:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

  The sources on da-WP don't really help with WP:GNG. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 17:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Was the Danish National Socialist Party actually a significant power in 1940? Did its leader get any recognition or have any government function? John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:01, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

  According to National Socialist Workers' Party of Denmark, pretty much no. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 18:15, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

  They won 3 seats (out of 149) in both the 1939 Danish Folketing election and the 1943 Danish Folketing election; 1.8 and 2.1% of the votes respectively. They were a very minor force until the Germans imposed direct rule later in 1943 and needed a bunch of collaborators; see Denmark in World War II. Narky Blert ( talk) 05:27, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply

  Olsen was not the party leader in either the 1939 elections or the 1943 elections. The party leader was Frits Clausen. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:34, 17 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Redirect to Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon, where he's mentioned, as {{ R to related topic}}. The sources pass WP:V. Keep the categories and the Interwiki link.

(1) He fails WP:NSPORTS as it now stands, excluding people who are listed in directories but fail WP:GNG for lack of sources. (2) The Danish article about the party he founded, da:Dansk Nordisk Front, is unsourced. For all I can tell, he may have been the only member. Nothing in da:Orla Olsen suggests that his political career was of any note, and he fails WP:GNG on this count also. Narky Blert ( talk) 19:23, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• • LOL about him maybe having been the only member. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:26, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• comment I agree that, based on the current article, this is a prime candidate for deletion. From what I see, his only significant notoriety might be as Gauleiter of Copenhagen under the Nazis, but the lack of any war crime prosecution tends to argue against it. Mangoe ( talk) 19:29, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Is there an online Danish newspaper archive? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:30, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

  We have had this before. Digitised Danish newspapers are available online only up to 1921 - later ones can only be accessed from libraries inside Denmark. See here. Ingratis ( talk) 22:41, 15 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• weak keep status as an athlete and leader of a party that got seats in a national assembly probably means sources exist, they just aren't online. Hobit ( talk) 12:15, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
  • At least on the athletic front, no there is no indication that sources exist on everyone who was in the Olympics, especially people who did not finish the race they were in. For the other matter, we need people to actually produce actual sources, not just hand wave that sources are hard to find. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 17:12, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Weak keep per Hobit. At worst, redirect, per the above. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• For what it is worth, the article still says nothing about his role as a Nazi collaborator during WWII. If people want to argue for weak keep based on that, they should at least bother to add some prose about his role there in the article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 17:13, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• I'll see what I can do - I've been kinda busy with one thing and another and my Danish and Swedish - he appears in at least one work by Bosse Schön (which has prose btw) - are basic at best. Obviously I don't have access to Danish newspaper resources which would make life an awful lot easier. That's unfortunate, but I'm not based in Denmark - and would probably struggle with the translation anyway. But it seems reasonable that there will be some coverage in those that could be garnered. But anyway, it's been a little more than two days one day since the article was nominated. It is a little disappointing perhaps that you appear not to have checked the Danish article first. That provides some sourcing and also his full name, which might have been more useful to search using. But those inter-wiki links are tucked away down on the left there and aren't something that is easily spotted, so that's understandable of course. I am surprised you didn't find the documentary film that he appears in - it's on the second page of my ghits; that might have provided some ideas of where else to look; from that he appears to have been a Sysselleder (a gauleiter) in 1938. Blue Square Thing ( talk) 19:11, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Redirect to Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon. There is no evidence that he passes the GNG and a loose handwave in the direction of dead tree sources does not show that they exist. -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 21:04, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• delete His Olympic participation is really the least of his three "tries" at notability, so I see redirecting on the basis of athletics misleading. I did find a reference in Swedish to his gauleiter position, but it appears to be very passing. I don't see anything that approaches the kind of extended treatment that would constitute the basis for biographical treatment here. Mangoe ( talk) 02:21, 17 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Redirect to Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon. Of course, if any editor discovers and brings forth reliable sources that actually devote significant coverage to him as a distance runner or a Danish Nazi, the article can be recreated at that time. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:27, 17 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Fails WP:GNG (lack of SIGCOV), WP:NOLYMPICS (not a medalist), and WP:NPOL (doesn't appear to have been elected to a qualifying office). Also no clear redirect target given his varied endeavors. Article can be recreated if actual SIGCOV is later discovered. Cbl62 ( talk) 03:23, 17 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete. No significant achievements, no in-depth coverage in the literature. Binksternet ( talk) 16:47, 20 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Comment, according to Google, there is a 1999 Danish book titled "Orla Olsen". BeanieFan11 ( talk) 16:57, 20 June 2022 (UTC) reply
  • Per WorldCat there is a copy held at the Danish Union Catalogue and Danish National Bibliography in Ballerup. Do we have any Danish wikipedians here? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 17:08, 20 June 2022 (UTC) reply
    • I doubt that this is a published book. There is essentially no publication data, and the translation of the note acto Google/Bing translate is "Danish personalia clippings mainly contain clippings from Danish newspapers". I agree that it shows at least one person found him interesting enough to make the compilation, but as a signifier of notability it is at best underwhelming. Mangoe ( talk) 00:39, 21 June 2022 (UTC) reply
      • Yeah, but if there are enough clippings for that to exist at all, those clippings are likely enough to meet WP:N. Hobit ( talk) 14:34, 21 June 2022 (UTC) reply

That may or may not be so. This outlines the process for accessing the folder if anyone wishes to pursue it. Cbl62 ( talk) 15:06, 21 June 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Hobit/ Cbl62/ Mangoe/ BeanieFan11: I am in Copenhagen, but my Danish isn't to the level needed to do this -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 20:55, 21 June 2022 (UTC) reply

It looks like there may be a way to do the request in English. From there, scans would be all that's needed. Not sure it's a worthwhile use of your time of course... Hobit ( talk) 21:48, 21 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Redirect to Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon per WP:ATD. If and when sources with significant coverage emerge the article can always be resurrected. 4meter4 ( talk) 09:56, 22 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Keep and improve using Danish sources. Bookworm857158367 ( talk) 18:56, 23 June 2022 (UTC) reply

This is just " Der skal være kilder på dansk." Mangoe ( talk) 22:27, 23 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete No evidence that this meets GNG, no redirect needed, can be recreated at a later date if sources are found. Avilich ( talk) 01:56, 24 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• On reflection, this would be better to be redirected. There are clearly some sources in Danish and Swedish, but the ones that anyone here appears to be able to access are sketchy. And my Danish and Swedish isn't up to bothering to develop the article just to see it deleted anyway. I have absolutely no doubt at all that if we were to be able to access Danish print archives that we could find enough bits and pieces about him to satisfy GNG - and I do mean absolutely no doubt at all. So, to preserve the page history, attribution and access to sources and because it's much more efficient to do so, a redirect to either Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon or Denmark at the 1928 Summer Olympics. A link to the Danish article should then be inserted as a placeholder on both articles. As and when sources emerge the redirect can be reverted and the article expanded. Blue Square Thing ( talk) 22:10, 25 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete and Redirect to Athletics at the 1928 Summer Olympics – Men's marathon- An unsuccessful Olympic competitor from a time when the Olympics were nowhere near the big deal that they are now. No non-database sources have been presented about his competitive career. This person's political activities seem to make a better claim for notability and, though I am far from convinced, I'd be more willing to be convinced of notability on that basis than the Olympics stuff. Reyk _YO! 23:39, 26 June 2022 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.