The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is keep now that the article has been improved and properly referenced to reliable sources. 78.26 _{( spin me / revolutions)} 21:36, 6 March 2019 (UTC) reply

Omid 16B (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Deleted after expired PROD in 2017. Subject's PA has appeared on my talk page requesting restoration. I'm of the opinion that the numerous sources linked on my talk page don't indicate notability (too narrow of an audience, mostly interviews, etc) but I think it would be best if it was looked at by people with interest/experience in the area. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 16:10, 19 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 17:45, 19 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 17:45, 19 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment for now: I'll chip in here, as this is my area. ;-) If Omid 16B's PA who posted on PMC's talk page is reading this, I was a regular attendee at John Digweed's Bedrock night at Heaven and Red Jerry's Elements club at Elektrowerkz, among others during the late 90s/early 2000s... I mention this because you will therefore know that I will be familiar with Omid's style of deep/progressive house and I have seen Omid play at various nights in London, so there is at least one Wikipedia editor here who is not speaking from a position of ignorance.

The issue Wikipedia has with DJs who were big names before the internet era took off is that most of the reliable sources are not available online – Mixmag, DJ Mag and Ministry have no online archives, which means Wikipedia's coverage of DJs and producers is very biased towards those who have appeared in the last decade, where websites like Dancing Astronaut and YourEDM now cover them regularly. Reviews of Omid's records on Resident Advisor and the like aren't reliable sources for Wikipedia, because they are written by users and fans, rather than professional journalists. And I know he's produced a lot of records, but that doesn't make him notable, just prolific.

So the lack of easily available sources online has resulted in the deletion of article for Omid's erstwhile partners in SOS, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Demi (DJ) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Desyn Masiello, as well as DJs I certainly consider notable enough (and that reliable sources exist for them) for Wikipedia articles, such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James Zabiela and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Henry Saiz. From a personal point of view it's frustrating, but there's little that I can do unless the sources can be located and cited (and I live in South America these days, so it's even harder for me to get hold of back copies of the UK dance magazines). If you want to keep the article, you will need to provide the full sources from DJ Mag etc. to be able to provide a basic biographical article – I don't just mean he has appeared on the front cover, but proper articles inside the magazine that say something about Omid, e.g. place and maybe year of birth, any details of his early life, how he got his break, major clubs and events that he has played... not quotes about his own views on his records, or the scene, or his influences, or anything like that. Richard3120 ( talk) 17:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment. Hi guys & thanks for getting involved Richard3120, good to hear from someone that knows Omid! Wikipedia can be a little complicated for someone who hasn't dealt with it before so excuse me for sending unsuitable links. Wikipedia has been a main source for so many websites for years and I just found so many 'dead' links directing to wikipedia for Omids biography so I'm keen to sort this out. As I mentioned in talk with Premeditated Chaos Omid also has been known under his alias 'Phaser', search for "Omid 16B' and google knowledge graph displays incorrect bio belonging to other band called "Phaser' simply because his biography on wikipedia is not available anymore, ofcourse thats the issue we have to take up with google.

I have found some articles from magazines and took quick snaps. There is much more but it needs a little more digging. Excuse me for quality but with some zooming in it should be possible to read, if not let me know, I might have to scan it. I'll go trough some more over the weekend, flyers or adverts about major events work too?. [1] PA to Omid16b ( talk) 01:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Sources need to be independent and in-depth. Flyers and ads are neither independent (since they are associated with the subject) nor in-depth. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 01:10, 22 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• This is correct – many of my friends have been DJs and have flyers of the nights they have played, but it doesn't make them notable... unless it was a major club event that got significant coverage in a music magazine or newspaper, and Omid's name is prominently mentioned in the coverage, it's not going to count. Richard3120 ( talk) 14:14, 22 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• So the link I included with shots from magazines with articles does not work? PA to Omid16b ( talk) 15:48, 22 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Yes they do – I'll have a look through them and see if they can be used for the article. Have you got the date/issue number for the Future Music magazine (last four scans)? Richard3120 ( talk) 17:06, 22 February 2019 (UTC) reply

• Yes , here is the link to discogs, image shot has front cover with issue/date [2] PA to Omid16b ( talk) 16:38, 25 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Should I try to update Omid 16B's wiki page with up to date biography? Possibly then it would be easier to find and include missing sources if any more is required? PA to Omid16b ( talk) 22:07, 26 February 2019 (UTC) reply

@ Omid16b: I've tidied up the page and added a basic biography based on the scans of the magazines. I'd like to know though, what are the magazines that are the two-page spread between The Face and Future Music, and also the last short article at the bottom? If you have the magazine names and the issue dates that would be a big help, I can't cite them at the moment because I don't know their origins. Richard3120 ( talk) 17:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC) reply

Thanks Richard! I have included scan with issue number for the short article next to it. The other one is Dj mag but we having problem sourcing front cover with issue number (still on the case). I have added some other scans there too if it helps (few more I add later). I also have links to interviews which contains a paragraph or two about Omid coming from a journalist. I've noticed some other dj's have included interviews as their sources on wikipedia. A lot of his discography can also be confirmed via discogs. Let me know if you need anything else. http://omid16b.com/gallery/omid-16b-magazine-covers/ PA to Omid16b ( talk) 13:45, 4 March 2019 (UTC) reply

• Obviously I'm going to say keep now – there's plenty of reliable independent sources in the article now, and although it's short it still has scope for expansion. But I'm an involved editor now, so it would be good to get some more editors to give their unbiased opinions. Richard3120 ( talk) 18:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep. The sterling work by Richard3120 shows that there are enough sources to meet WP:NMUSIC, and I agree that it's likely that more sources exist offline in the 'old' dance music press. I think there's enough here for an article. — sparklism ^hey! 05:45, 5 March 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Fair challenge to bring this to AfD; and Richard3120's input now makes it a Keep. Britishfinance ( talk) 18:28, 6 March 2019 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.