- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Will speedily restore if he becomes an MEP. Mark Arsten ( talk) 00:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
- Matt Carthy ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:Politician. Matt Carthy is a local councillor, a member of Monaghan County Council, and since he has not achieved national prominence in this role, he is not notable. He is a Sinn Fein candidate at the 2014 European Election and this article appears to have been created by a new user called 4MEPSinnFein with the sole purpose of promoting his candidacy. Snappy ( talk) 16:34, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Snappy ( talk) 16:36, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Snappy ( talk) 16:41, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep. His position on the Border Regional Authority is a "sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office" (the Authority is one of the eight sub-national divisions of Ireland) satisfying WP:POLITICIAN criterion #1. A Google News archive search for his name turns up 50 results. Some of them are outlets outside the Republic of Ireland: the Belfast Telegraph, the Jerusalem Post (paywalled), the BBC twice, Al Jazeera, the Guardian, Utusan Online in Malaysia, the Philadelphia Inquirer (paywalled), people.com.cn and TV 2 in Norway. The coverage may meet WP:POLITICIAN criterion #2. The apparently self-promotional article has been rewritten by Nikkimaria. I didn't look at the Irish stories but some are entirely about Carthy, perhaps enough to meet WP:GNG. — rybec 20:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep: given the sources available, he would appear to meet GNG. I hope I've addressed the promotional issues, although anyone is welcome to improve the article further. Nikkimaria ( talk) 05:08, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Delete: This is a minor local figure for the time being. An article may be created should he achieve notability in future. His position for the Border Region is not "statewide or province wide" so he does not satify that criterion. Press coverage cited above is for when he was just an organiser for Sinn Fein Youth, or very brief passing mentions of statements he made as merely a local councillor. Examination of the articles found in the Google hit list above (not in itself a proof of notability) reveals that there are actually no major articles devoted to him because of his minor status, so he has not gained truly significant media coverage. In addition, three of the four references cited to support article content are from his own political organisation (Sinnfein.ie, and An Phoblacht, which is the newspaper of his political party, Sinn Féin). They are not objective, reliable sources for Wikipedia purposes. — O'Dea ( talk) 07:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Delete. Ireland does not have any sub-national legislatures as claimed above. Regional authorities are only at NUTS-3 level (lower than county council level in Britain and nowhere near the American state-level that "sub-national" means in this sense). So he certainly does not pass WP:POLITICIAN. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 08:50, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Comment - As mentioned above the Regional Authorities (RA) are not sub-national, and are actually being abolished next year as part of local government reforms. Also none of the other 37 members of the RA are notable enough to merit an article. Also the sources cites mostly relate to an incident with the Israeli envoy, which falls under WP:BLP1E. Snappy ( talk) 18:46, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Comment - The first two conditions of WP:BLP1E are
- If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event.
- If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual.
- If the subject came here to promote his candidacy, he's not a low-profile person. There is other coverage of him besides the stories about the diplomatic incident, so the first condition doesn't apply. —
rybec 19:52, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
- Candidacy is not evidence of notability.
— O'Dea (
talk) 07:28, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Who_is_a_low_profile_individual describes high-profile people (emphasis added):
- Candidacy is not evidence of notability.
— O'Dea (
talk) 07:28, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Has voluntarily participated in self-publicity activities, such as press conferences, promotional appearances, book signings, and the like; and/or has participated in an attention-seeking manner in publicity for some other concern, such as a cause, election campaign or commercial endorsee.
- — rybec 08:32, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- You have not made clear what point you wish to be understood in your latest comment, posted in response to me. I have not discussed high- or low-profiles, so it seems off the point. Furthermore,
Wikipedia:Who_is_a_low_profile_individual is not a policy, just an opinion essay — it says so at the top: "Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Consider these views with discretion. Essays are not Wikipedia policies or guidelines." Therefore, I choose to ignore it as an irritating, off-the-point, non-binding distraction.
— O'Dea (
talk) 14:59, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with User:O'Dea that essay is just an opinion piece and is irrelevant. What does User:Rybec mean by if the article was created to promote Carthy's candidacy? From the original article: "Matt believes it is time for a change in representation for the North West constituency. He wants to shake things up and believes the EU parliament should not be used as a retirement home for former TDs but rather as platform to stand up for the Irish people. If elected to the EU parliament he will use it as a forum to stand up against austerity; against red tape and bureaucracy; for investment and jobs and for fair agriculture policies that support the family farm." This has since been removed but it proves the original intent of the article creator. Also, Carthy has been a local councillor since 1999 yet the article was only created since he received the nomination to run for his party at the 2014 EP election. Snappy ( talk) 17:00, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- You have not made clear what point you wish to be understood in your latest comment, posted in response to me. I have not discussed high- or low-profiles, so it seems off the point. Furthermore,
Wikipedia:Who_is_a_low_profile_individual is not a policy, just an opinion essay — it says so at the top: "Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Consider these views with discretion. Essays are not Wikipedia policies or guidelines." Therefore, I choose to ignore it as an irritating, off-the-point, non-binding distraction.
— O'Dea (
talk) 14:59, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
It should have been clear what my last two comments were about. They were in response to Snappy's statement that "Also the sources cites mostly relate to an incident with the Israeli envoy, which falls under WP:BLP1E." If the article is to be deleted due to BLP1E, the subject should meet the conditions of that policy, one of which is being a low-profile person. While it's a reasonable inference, we don't really know that the anonymous contributor of the promotional text is Carthy, hence my "if": if it was him, that' s one example of self-promotional activity, making him a high-profile person. The incident with the Israeli ambassador looks like a publicity stunt to me. Carthy has willingly spoken to the press on several occasions. The essay I linked to is the same one linked from WP:BLP, but feel free to explain why it, or my estimation of Carthy as a high-profile person, is wrong. — rybec 19:32, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- He is a local councillor with some minor hits in google due to his membership of Sinn Fein and their stance on Israeli issues. He is low profile because none of those links are about him personally, he is just mentioned in passing. He has not been the subject of any article in national sources. Snappy ( talk) 18:02, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
- Comment: I'd be inclined to go with Delete. As mentioned above it fails WP:Politician. However there might be an argument for keeping it for the moment. Little point in deleting an article, then having to recreate it if he winds up becoming an MEP.
CivisHibernius ( talk) 23:13, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- Wikipedia does not operate on the basis of future speculation. The question of notability is decided on present, known criteria. Where these change, re-appraisal is possible and, as Snappy pointed out, undeletion may be performed, or a minor stub such as this can quickly be re-started from scratch. There is nothing inevitable about Carthy becoming notable. — O'Dea ( talk) 03:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
- Delete so. CivisHibernius ( talk) 17:52, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.