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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 02:13, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook

TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Military manual. Nothing in the article suggests it is notable. Effectively unreferenced outside a popculture trivia note. As such, this fails not just WP:GNG but also WP:OR. My BEFORE shows next to nothing, at least under the current name. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Which of these meet WP:SIGCOV? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:36, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Surely the article reported in We Are The Mighty written by Logan Nye, an Army journalist and paratrooper in the 82nd, meet WP:SIGCOV criteria. It addresses the topic directly and in detail, and conclude with: "The whole handbook is interesting from an engineering, MacGyver, or historical perspective". 82.54.189.142 ( talk) 13:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
I'd let it pass. But SIGCOV (GNG) requires multiple such sources. Now, that means we need at least one more - can you point out to the second one? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:38, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
The book by Ann Larabee (The Wrong Hands: Popular Weapons Manuals and Their Historic Challenges to a Democratic Society), as mentioned in my comment of 12 March 2024, 13:49. 82.57.203.36 ( talk) 12:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep, there exist references per 82.54.189.142.
🇺🇲JayCubby✡ plz edit my user pg! Talk 22:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Followup comment. Before the discussion reaches its 7th day, and is evaluated by a volunteer "closing admin", I would like to summarize below the reasons why I believe this page should not be deleted.
The page concerns an object (TM 31-210 manual) that:
– was owned by guerrilla or terrorist groups who used it to wage wars, for example in Afghanistan, which influenced the history of recent decades (see Dilip Hiro's book)
– is mentioned in many media (BBC, etc.), and also by an online newspaper written by and for veterans (We Are The Mighty) who find it interesting: Logan Nye's article reaches WP:SIGCOV
– appeared in a world famous film (Toy Story)
– is mentioned in articles and books of scientific and historical literature that use it as a basis, source or reference to develop their analyses: see for example the book by Ann Larabee, which reaches WP:SIGCOV, which also covers other similar manuals that have their own dedicated page (see: La Salute è in voi).
It should be noted that the page has thousands of views every month and it is included from time to time in WikiProject_Books/Popular_pages. A clear sign that it deals with an interesting subject for the Wikipedia community, maybe deleting it could be a disservice.
Considering all of this, I believe the TM 31-210 manual has sufficient notability to be included in its own Wikipedia page. 82.54.189.142 ( talk) 13:49, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:31, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Keep. The book has had significant impact, as shown above. PARAKANYAA ( talk) 23:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Closing as keep but the consensus also says the article needs cleanup and editing. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 02:15, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

List of solar eclipses visible from the United States

List of solar eclipses visible from the United States (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This list is incomplete to the point of being misleading. Taking the Charlotte, NC section as an example: it lists only 14 of the 440 solar eclipses visible between the dates selected 1001-2251 ( https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JSEX/JSEX-USA.html). This list can never be made complete, nor should it. To accurately list solar eclipses from the 90 cities on the list would require ~50k bullets. That's excessive.

Suggest deleting this, and starting over with a more focused view, and shorter time period (e.g. 1900-2100). A section on the most notable eclipses such as those with the longest duration, coast-to-coast paths, etc. Rather than have 90 sections for individual cities, have sections for each state and list only eclipses where path passes through that state. MadeYourReadThis ( talk) 17:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Astronomy, Lists, and United States of America. Skynxnex ( talk) 17:37, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Keep – Per Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup. If necessary, editors can use WP:TNT to rewrite the article. Up the Walls ( talk) 23:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Read WP:SKCRIT. Quoting that page, said criteria is as follows:
    1. Absence of delete rationale. Normally the nominator will provide grounds for deletion in the delete rationale, but if (a) the nominator withdraws the nomination, perhaps because of improvements to the article that happen during the AfD, or (b) the nominator failed to give intelligible grounds for content deletion (i.e. arguments that would support deletion, userfying or redirection, perhaps only proposing an alternative action such as moving or merging) and no new delete rationale appears in the deletion discussion. Exceptions:
    a) If the nominator indicates that the nomination is procedural in nature, then the nomination is ineligible for speedy keep. This includes a "relist" result from deletion review, fixing errors in the nomination process, or if a user stated a page should be deleted on a talk page without actually nominating it.
    b) If the nomination would otherwise qualify for close to speedy redirect then suggestions to redirect the page are treated the same as moving or merging.
    c) Where the nominator withdraws their nomination, check whether other editors still recommend a delete or redirect outcome before speedily closing. If a good faith editor in good standing recommends delete or redirect, the AfD should not be speedily closed using this ground.
    2. The nomination was unquestionably made for the purposes of vandalism or disruption and, since questionable motivations on the part of the nominator do not have a direct bearing on the validity of the nomination, no uninvolved editor has recommended deletion or redirection as an outcome of the discussion. For example:
    a) obviously frivolous or vexatious nominations (such as recently featured content)
    b) nominations which are made solely to provide a forum for disruption, e.g. when a contestant in an edit war nominates an opponent's userpage solely for harassment
    c) making nominations of the same page with the same arguments immediately after they were strongly rejected in a recently closed deletion discussion
    d) nominations that are clearly an attempt to end an editing dispute through deletion, where dispute resolution is a more appropriate course
    3. The nomination is completely erroneous. No accurate deletion rationale has been provided.
    4. The nominator was blocked or banned at the time of making the nomination, so they were not supposed to edit. In that case, the nominated page is speedily kept while the nomination can be removed from the log, tagged with (db banned template) and speedily deleted as a banned contribution. However, if subsequent editors added substantive comments in good faith before the nominator's blocked or banned status was discovered, the nomination may not be speedily closed (though the nominator's opinion will be discounted in the closure decision).
    5. The page is a policy or guideline. The deletion processes are not a forum for revoking policy.
    6. The page/image is currently linked from the Main Page. In such cases, please wait until the link is no longer on the Main Page before nominating. If the problem is urgent, consensus should be gained at WP:ERRORS to remove the link before nominating for deletion.
    ———
    Now I am no expert. But I don’t see anything here that qualifies for speedy keep. I mean there is certainly a delete rationale. Evidently a rationale that a lot of people agree with. There’s no reason to believe that the nomination was made intentionally to vandalize Wikipedia. The nomination is definitely not erroneous. I don’t see anything that suggests the nominator ( MadeYourReadThis) was blocked or banned at the time of nominating the article. And this article is clearly not a Wikipedia policy and it clearly is not linked to the main page. Nothing in here says that the speedy keep criteria has been met. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:F548:3898:596F:F4E7 ( talk) 01:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as egregious eclipse cruft. And if you like, per WP:NOTDB and as a WP:CROSSCAT. Does it matter if an eclipse 1000 years ago was visible within a current geopolitical boundary? Or one 1000 years in the future? Why are these broken down by city? Stuff like this can be automatically generated from a database (and indeed appears to have been for this article), and doing so city-by-city is completely pointless and serves no purpose. What's here is unsalvageable, so appeals to clean up are inadequate as well. 35.139.154.158 ( talk) 04:19, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    The topic of when an eclipse path might pass through your city is interesting enough, even so far in the past or future, but the scope here is just too broad to be covered to any level of usefulness (to your point). This is an unfixable article. MadeYourReadThis ( talk) 17:42, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    This article is NOT computer generated (despite the fact that it does look like it if you didn’t know any better). I know that for a fact because I spent the better part of an hour rewriting that article. It is NOT unfixable unlike what some others on here claim. It is NOT unsourced, nor is it original research. NASA and others produce eclipse maps. Some of them on commons, some elsewhere. See my full rationale of my keep vote below. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:9839:C46C:DCAD:F9B1 ( talk) 06:21, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NLIST. Eclipses visible by city is a weird idea, plus the cities (and nation) in question didn't even exist at the time of many of them. Clarityfiend ( talk) 11:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as city choices seem to be arbitrary, especially with some cities listed being close to each other (relatively speaking at least), and some states left out entirely. The timeframe also seems to be arbitrary, with no real reason for it. Sadustu Tau ( talk) 10:28, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as stated by the nominator, any list of eclipses without established bounds cannot possibly be complete. This largely seems to be cruft. ArkHyena ( talk) 03:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep bc Wikipedia is not a directory. This doesn't promise to be an index of every eclipse. It's an incomplete list. The solution is editorial cleanup, not deletion. jengod ( talk) 17:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    While this article is not perfect, it is sufficient for a large amount of the public and more than accurate enough to satisfy them. There is no reason to delete it until someone comes up with an easily readable more accurate version. Today, this gives a lot of readers an approachable way to understand eclipses. It is good enough to keep until it can be replaced by something better. 2601:19C:C100:64A:F0D5:48D5:309C:4F98 ( talk) 01:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    But I also have a suggestion on that easily readable version. Format it like the British list. Have lists for each state. But do each state list like the British list. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:340C:2B84:1E36:D409 ( talk) 06:35, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Being imperfect isn't sufficient rationale to keep an article. There has to be some hope of making the article useful. The current information in the article is not only a scatter shot, the subject the article lacks sufficient focus to ever produce a useful article. 2605:A601:A687:B900:9932:AA06:BB3E:90F9 ( talk) 22:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. If you are suggesting an article split, please outline what articles should be created and whether you are willing to do or at least assist this process.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:29, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Keep As has been said, there's no reason to delete this article as opposed to revising it, starting over is completely unnecessary and would be a waste of time.
AveryTheComrade ( talk) 20:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC) reply
And if the article was split. I probably would assist in the process wherever and whenever I’m able to. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:9839:C46C:DCAD:F9B1 ( talk) 06:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep This was useful for me do not delete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.244.170.170 ( talk) 11:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep: I think it should be fixed and formatted similarly to the British list. The article is NOT unfixable (unlike what some people on here claim). The British list can attest to that. It is NOT original research (there are maps from NASA and others). It is NOT unsourced, I just didn’t want to have to put all those citations in there. NASA has a dedicated eclipse website. If necessary, someone can use the under construction/in use templates too. 2601:5C5:4201:68B0:9839:C46C:DCAD:F9B1 ( talk) 06:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Arab citizens of Israel. While there's no consensus that the article is a POVFORK, all seem to agree that there's a fair amount of content overlap between the two articles, even if the two population groups are not identical. This is a key criterion under WP:MERGE. Once we discard the views that are based on the "not the exact same population group" argument, we are left with a policy-based consensus to merge. Owen× ☎ 13:28, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Palestinian citizens of Israel (PCI)

Palestinian citizens of Israel (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Request to redirect this article to Arab citizens of Israel#Terminology and identity

Why?: Palestinian citizens of Israel (PCIs) are the exact same population group as Arab citizens of Israel (ACIs). In fact, "Palestinian citizens of Israel " is one of at least 14 terms that are used to describe ACIs: as well as

see Arab_citizens_of_Israel#List_of_demonyms.

The list of demonyms/ethnonyms and the implication of each is extensively discussed in the main article for this population group, which is Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Current article insists on an unsupported (and IMO false) thesis: There are no RS stating what the current article claims, i.e. that PCI is a different ethnoreligious group from ACI, because (supposedly) PCIs are those people who "self-identify" as Palestinian (implying that ACIs do not identify as Palestinian). The two sources given mention no such thing i.e. they WP:FAIL verification and I have been able to find no other resource supporting the self-identification theory. Furthermore I've been in extensive discussions with User:Selfstudier who defends that thesis and they have not provided any RS supporting the "self-identity" theory either.

Organizations stating the same group (ACI/PCI) uses the different terms:

  • Inter-Agency Task Force on Israeli Arab issues which says "Arab citizens’ identities are more nuanced than either “Israeli” or “Palestinian.” Members of this population group describe themselves (and are described by others) with many terms. Some common terms include: Arab Israelis, Israeli Arabs, Palestinian citizens of Israel, Arab citizens of Israel, 48ers, Palestinian Israelis" [5]
  • iCenter, which says "What are some names for Arab citizens of Israel? Palestinian citizens of Israel, Israeli Arabs, Israeli Palestinians, Arab Israelis, and Palestinian Israelis. Each of these names, while referring to the same group of people, connotes something different." [6]
  • International Crisis Group which says "The Israeli National Security Council (NSC) has used the term "Arab citizens of Israel". Virtually all political parties, movements and non-governmental organisations from within the Arab community use the word "Palestinian" somewhere in their description – at times failing to make any reference to Israel. For consistency of reference and without prejudice to the position of either side, ICG will use both Arab Israeli and terms the community commonly uses to describe itself, such as Palestinian citizens of Israel or Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel." [2]

Authors describing the use of ACI, PCI and other terms for the same ACI/PCI group:

  • Muhammad Amara (author): "Many identity constructs are used to refer to Palestinians in Israel; the Israeli establishment prefer Israeli Arabs or Arabs in Israel. Others refer to them as Israeli Palestinians, Palestinian Arabs in Israel, the Arabs inside the Green Line. Nowadays the widespread terms among Palestinians are Palestinians in Israel or the Palestinians of 1948." [3]
  • Columbia Journalism Review: "Palestinian citizens of Israel—also called Israeli-Arabs, Palestinians in Israel, ’48 Arabs, or Palestinian Arabs—" [1]

Press stating the same group (ACI/PCI) uses the different terms

  • Foreign Policy (2021): "Only 16 percent of this population wants to be called “Israeli Arab,” according to a 2017 survey by the University of Haifa professor Sammy Smooha provided to Foreign Policy. 'The largest now and the most growing identity is a hybrid identity, which is Palestinian in Israel or a similar combination'" [7]
  • Mosaic: The question of how both Jews and Arabs in Israel should refer to the country’s Palestinian population has been a vexed one... these “minorities” have often spoken of themselves, and been spoken of in the Arab world, as “the Arabs of ’48” or “the Palestinians of ’48,”...It’s no accident that [Israeli] Jews have insisted on the usage “Arabs of Israel.” ...to erase the Palestinian component from the identity [of the country’s Arab population] . . . to create an artificial distinction between those Palestinians who remained within the borders of the new state [of Israel] and those elsewhere, and to suppress the formation [among Israel’s Arabs] of any kind of national identity. And for this reason, too, more and more Israeli Arabs have in recent years come to prefer the term “Israeli Palestinian” (filastini isra’ili, in Arabic) to “Israeli Arab.” This is a direct result of the Palestinian nationalism... “I am not just an Arab,” the term “Israeli Palestinian” says. “I am one who shares an identity with the Palestinians of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and who belongs to the same people that they do." [8]
  • New York Times (2012): "After decades of calling themselves Israeli Arabs…most now prefer Palestinian citizens of Israel" [9]

Press using the term "Palestinian citizens of/in Israel" for the same group (ACI/PCI)

_______________________________

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Keizers ( talk) 21:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC) Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC) Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC) ________________________________ reply

  • Initial comment Since it seems possible that nom is unaware of the history behind the creation of this article and for the benefit of other editors, please see the RM of 27 October 2021 proposing the move Arab citizens of Israel → Palestinian citizens of Israel. The result of this discussion was "Not Moved" with the closer commenting The main argument against was accuracy/precision, particularly as not all Arab citizens of Israel are of Palestinian origin. It is notable that this latter argument caused one of the support voters to change their !vote and as such was particularly persuasive.
Immediately following the RM closure, the discussion Talk:Arab citizens of Israel/Archive 8#What should we call the new page for Israelis that identify as Palestinian? concluded that the best way to proceed would be to create a new article, the closer of the RM opining "I think the best way to proceed may be just to write the damn article and then see which title fits best when you've got the first draft down. Or even just boldly create and leave perfecting the title to others." which led to the creation of the article under discussion here. Selfstudier ( talk) 04:25, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • More history Following the creation of the article, there was a 6 week (!) RM discussion proposing Palestinian citizens of Israel → Palestinian identity in Israel which resulted in no consensus to move, with the closer commenting It appears to be undisputed that there are some number of individuals who are citizens of Israel, and who identify as Palestinians". The discussion, such as it was, covered the issue of the article being a POV fork as well but notably no-one at the time proposed AfD and the relevant facts have not changed since in that regard. Selfstudier ( talk) 05:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • The numbers:
2020 figures from Institute for National Security Studies (Israel) says:
"The Muslim residents of Israel are the largest group in the Arab population, which constitutes part of the Palestinian people. As of the end of 2020, this group numbered 1.673 million people—85.6 percent of all Arab citizens of Israeli' and 18 percent of Israel's total population. This figure includes the Muslim Arabs living in East Jerusalem, who are not Israeli citizens. It can therefore be concluded that there are 1.3 million Muslim citizens of Israel (author’s calculation based on the Central Bureau of Statistics, 2020c)." (my bolding)
while Amnesty states:
"As mentioned above, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab citizens of Israel" is an inclusive term that describes a number of different and primarily Arabic-speaking groups, including Muslim Arabs (this classification includes Bedouins), Christian Arabs, Druze and Circassians. According to the ICBS, at the end of 2019, the Druze population stood at approximately 145,000, while according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Circassian population totalled 4,000 people. Considering the number of those defined as Muslim Arabs and Christian Arabs together, the population of Palestinian citizens of Israel amounted to around 1.8 million, that is some 20% of the total population in Israel and occupied East Jerusalem".
Taking the 1.67mm from first source section and adding the 0.14mm Christians gives 1.81mm reconciles the two sources. Selfstudier ( talk) 05:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
⇒That is all fine, it says that ACI are Muslim Arab, Christian Arab, Druze and Circassians – it doesn't say that any of those groups are not PCI. Keizers ( talk) 13:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Notability Here are two scholarly books specifically about the Palestinian citizens of Israel:
a) Palestinian citizens of Israel : Power, Resistance and the Struggle for Space Sharri Plonski IB Tauris 2018
"Other choices were made regarding terms and language that should also be mentioned from the outset. Key among them is the terminology surrounding the main interlocutors of this research: the term ‘Palestinian Citizens of Israel’ is immediately contentious. It sits within a spectrum of labels for the community at the centre of this inquiry. On one hand, it potentially challenges the mainstream Israeli-Zionist conceptualisation of this group as ‘Israeli Arabs’; on the other, it misses the political complexity of the term ‘48 Palestinians’ (a term often used by Palestinian activists inside and outside Israel), which more clearly acknowledges the relevance of the 1948 Nakba (Catastrophe) to the identity and material experiences of this group of Palestinians. The use of the term ‘Palestinian citizens’ or ‘Palestinian citizens of Israel’ in this work is due in part to a desire for clarity."
b) Palestinian Citizens in Israel : A History Through Fiction, 1948–2010 Manar H. Makhoul Edinburgh University Press 2020
"There are many names for the ‘Palestinian citizens in Israel’, usually referred to as ‘Israeli Arabs’ or ‘Israel’s Arab minority’. However, most of these identifications are politically and ideologically charged (Makhoul 2018a). My use of ‘Palestinian citizens in Israel’ in this book aims to avoid, as much as possible, ideological or political references by being descriptive, that is, to refer to that portion of the Palestinian nation which remained in Israel after the 1948 war, and later obtained citizenship. Nevertheless, the term ‘Palestinian citizens in Israel’ itself can be misleading, because it suggests equality through citizenship. This confusion is a result of Israel’s distinction between citizenship and nationality, creating a hierarchy between the two. There is no Israeli nationality, but a Jewish nationality. This hierarchy has been legally established initially through the Law of Return (1950) and later corroborated through additional legislation and court rulings, aiming to ground Israel as a state for the Jews, according to which ‘[e]very Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh [immigrant]’. This categorisation provides Jewish nationals civil and political rights that are higher than those holding Israeli citizenship"
Also, by the same author, Palestinian Citizens of Israel - Evolution of a Name (2018)
"In this essay, I will show how the terms used to refer to Palestinian citizens of Israel have evolved in the past six or so decades, and how this evolution mirrors the evolution of their identity."
It is not disputed that there exist Palestinians who self identify as Palestinian but this aspect is something of a red herring in regards to a deletion discussion, where the issue is whether the subject is itself notable, There is ample and sustained sourcing for the subject 394,000 results in Google scholar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Selfstudier ( talk • contribs) 07:07, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
⇒ Palestinian citizens of Israel is the term preferred by the Arab citizens of Israel to identify themselves. You are simply giving examples where sources refer to ACI/PCI as Palestinian citizens of Israel. Again, those sources do not distinguish PCI as a separate people from ACI. Keizers ( talk) 13:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and it’s not even close, sustained significant coverage of this topic is found in reliable sources. And no, this is not the same group as Arab citizens of Israel. There are Arab citizens of Israel that are not Palestinian and we have articles on many of those sub groups. There are Druze in Israel, there are Lebanese in Israel there are Negev Bedouin, each of those, like this, is a sub topic of Arab citizens of Israel. The Palestinian population has its own challenges separate from the non Palestinian Arabs in Israel. And they are covered as their own topic in reliable sources. nableezy - 10:14, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
⇒ 1) Of course there is a lot of coverage of PCI, that is increasingly the more common term for ACI, but nothing indicates that PCI are a separate people. PCI = ACI.
⇒ 2) The example of Druze and Negev Bedouin don't support your argument, as I have never seen any RS say Druze or Bedouin are not Palestinian/PCI. Can you provide one? Lebanese in Israel are a couple of thousand and yes they would not have their origins in the people of Mandatory Palestine, so they would not count, but we are talking 0.1% of the ACI there, and even then we are making assumptions, no RS. Keizers ( talk) 13:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a clearly distinct subject, per Selfstudier, Nableezy and in fact the hatnote at the top of the page, which notes "Not to be confused with Arab citizens of Israel". This page has previously been affirmed by multiple rounds of consensus, and for good reason: the subjects are separate. Not all individuals identified by Israel as Arab citizens self-identify as "Palestinian" – a subject that is both prima facie a separate topic and clearly worthy of a standalone page based on the sources already presented above. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • @ Iskandar323:, can you find a single RS that says that not all Arab citizens of Israel are not Palestinian citizens of Israel? With the obvious exception of Lebanese, and the very weak argument for Druze & Circassians based on 1 RS, Amnesty, which isn't even explicit about the issue. Meanwhile, at the top of this discussion I provided 8 RS that define ACI=PCI (just different terms for same people) and 4 RS that use the terms interchangeably. I would like to also start a RfC that the ACI article be renamedPCI, but that is another fight. None of the editors named can come up with a single source. I just don't understand where this idea comes from. I get that people prefer the term PCI, as do I, but that is not a reason to Fork the article and have two articles about the same population groups according to every RS. Keizers ( talk) 21:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Merge with Arab citizens of Israel - as a WP:POVFORK of that article, and per compelling arguments by BilledMammal. Marokwitz ( talk) 21:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • A source to support that ACI and PCI are two different peoples - somebody? anybody? I just don't understand where this idea comes from that PCIs are a separate group from ACIs, as opposed to 8 RS cited at the top that say ACI=PCI (one people, 15 choices of demonym/ethnonym). I get that Palestinians and their allies (like me) prefer the term PCI, but that is not a reason to Fork the article and have two articles about the same population groups according to every RS. Can anyone provide even one source other than the weak Amnesty one, and the minor special case of the Lebanese? Keizers ( talk) 21:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per nableezy. It has been shown both that the subject is notable and that it is not identical to an existing article's subject (hence cannot be a povfork). popodameron ⁠ talk 00:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I think opinion is divided enough to be worth at least one relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Merge with Arab citizens of Israel – As mentioned above, the topics cover exactly the same ethnic groups, with the majority of the Arab population in Israel being of Palestinian origin. A single article can record all content. Svartner ( talk) 01:59, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Merge to Arab citizens of Israel per the nomination. Bookworm857158367 ( talk) 02:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. I do understand the merge impulse, and it is not unreasonable. However, I am persuaded that there is sufficient distinctiveness between the subjects as to warrant a separate article, generally per Nableezy. And pragmatically, the size of the parent article is such that the reliably sourced, non-trivial information required to provide proper context and treatment of the subject would warrant spinoff in the relatively near term regardless. While that subject, I disagree that this is a POVFORK, this title used by a number of reliable sources and other than a perfunctory mention above, I have not seen the neutrality of this article challenged. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 11:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Not a fork, a notable subset of Arab citizens of Israel, no reason to delete given other than asserting that identifiable subsets are all Arabs, which is false. Merging has made to look more like an option by editing so as to include material from the article into the parent and by creating an unnecessary additional article and transferring information from the article to it. These measures will be undone in due course. Selfstudier ( talk) 12:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC) reply

References

  1. ^ a b c d e Berger, Miriam. "Palestinian citizens of Israel struggle to tell their stories". Columbia Journalism Review. Retrieved 4 March 2024. Palestinian citizens of Israel—also called Israeli-Arabs, Palestinians in Israel, '48 Arabs, or Palestinian Arabs—
  2. ^ a b c {{cite journal{{subst:!}}title=Identity Crisis: Israel and its Arab Citizens | journal=Middle East Report | issue= 25 | date=4 March 2004 | url= http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/middle-east-north-africa/israel-palestine/025-identity-crisis-israel-and-its-arab-citizens.aspx | archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20110313112806/http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/middle-east-north-africa/israel-palestine/025-identity-crisis-israel-and-its-arab-citizens.aspx | archive-date=13 March 2011 | access-date=14 April 2011 }}
  3. ^ a b c Muhammad Amara (1999). Politics and sociolinguistic reflexes: Palestinian border villages (Illustrated ed.). John Benjamins Publishing Company. p. 1. ISBN  978-90-272-4128-3. Many identity constructs are used to refer to Palestinians in Israel; the Israeli establishment prefer Israeli Arabs or Arabs in Israel. Others refer to them as Israeli Palestinians, Palestinian Arabs in Israel, the Arabs inside the Green Line. Nowadays the widespread terms among Palestinians are Palestinians in Israel or the Palestinians of 1948.
  4. ^ a b Rebecca B. Kook (2002). The Logic of Democratic Exclusion: African Americans in the United States and Palestinian citizens in Israel. Lexington Books. pp. 67–68. ISBN  978-0-7391-0442-2. The category of "Israeli Arab" was constructed by the Israeli authorities. As it indicates, this category assumes and constructs two levels of identity. The first is that of Arab. Local Palestinians who remained in what became Israel were designated as Arabs rather than Palestinians. This category refers to the realm of culture and ethnicity and not, clearly, politics. The official government intention was for the "Arab" to designate culture and ethnicity and the "Israeli" - to designate the political identity. ... In addition to the category of Israeli Arabs, other categories include "the minorities" and "the Arab sector," or, in certain sectors the more cryptic appellation of "our cousins." The use of these labels denies the existence of any type of political or national identification and the use of "minority" even denies them a distinct cultural identity. With the emergence of a more critical discourse ... the categorization expands to include Israeli Palestinians, Palestinians in Israel, Palestinian Arabs, Israeli Palestinian Arabs, the Palestinians of 1948, and so on.
  5. ^ a b c d e f "Exploring the Topics of Arab Citizens and Jewish-Arab Relations in Israel" (PDF). Israeli Arab Task Force. 2022. Arab citizens' identities are more nuanced than either "Israeli" or "Palestinian." Members of this population group describe themselves (and are described by others) with many terms. Some common terms include: Arab Israelis, Israeli Arabs, Palestinian citizens of Israel, Arab citizens of Israel, 48ers, Palestinian Israelis
  6. ^ a b c d "FAQ:Arab citizens of Israel" (PDF). The iCenter for Israel Education. Retrieved 4 March 2024. What are some names for Arab citizens of Israel? Palestinian citizens of Israel, Israeli Arabs, Israeli Palestinians, Arab Israelis, and Palestinian Israelis. Each of these names, while referring to the same group of people, connotes something different.
  7. ^ Berger, Miriam (8 March 2024). "Palestinian in Israel". Foreign Policy. Retrieved 6 March 2024. "I don't use the term Arab-Israeli," said the 30-year-old journalist, who was born in the Galilee and now lives in the northern city of Haifa. "We are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. It's very important for us, the terms and the terminology we use." For Eid, the term Arab-Israeli is too removed from politics. Or, as he sees it, "It puts the Arab disconnected from the Palestinian identity." Arab-Israeli—the official media and Israeli government term for the 20 percent of Israel's almost 9 million citizens who are Arab-Palestinian—is increasingly unpopular among the people it's meant to describe. Only 16 percent of this population wants to be called "Israeli Arab," according to a 2017 survey by the University of Haifa professor Sammy Smooha provided to Foreign Policy. "The largest now and the most growing identity is a hybrid identity, which is 'Palestinian in Israel'" or a similar combination, Smooha said. "I think that's what's going to take over."
  8. ^ Philologos (pen name) (23 June 2021). ""Israeli Arabs," "Palestinian Citizens of Israel," or "Israeli Palestinians"?". Mosaic. Retrieved 6 March 2024.
  9. ^ Jodi Rudoren, Service to Israel Tugs at Identity of Arab Citizens, The New York Times 12 July 2012: 'After decades of calling themselves Israeli Arabs, which in Hebrew sounds like Arabs who belong to Israel, most now prefer Palestinian citizens of Israel.'
  10. ^ Koningsveld, Akiva Van (6 October 2021). "Newsflash, Media: Israel's Arab Minority Does Not 'Largely Identify as Palestinian'". HonestReporting. Retrieved 2 March 2024.
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The result was delete‎. ✗ plicit 23:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Bombus (software)

AfDs for this article:
Bombus (software) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Can't find any reliable sources or significant coverage for this piece of software. Doesn't seem to pass WP:NSOFT. Has been marked as not notable since 2010. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 20:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Delete as it appears to fail WP:GNG. WhinyTheYounger ※ Talk 22:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft-deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 22:47, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:22, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep‎. Can those sources be added to the article? Liz Read! Talk! 21:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Sofia Steinberg

Sofia Steinberg (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article subject does not meet guidelines for notability per WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO, WP:ARTIST, and WP:NMODEL. An online search turned up no reliable secondary sources unconnected to the subject that could be used to improve the article. CurryTime7-24 ( talk) 21:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Forbes: [2]
Komsomolskaya Pravda: [3] Article reports that she apparently won some kind of "Model of the Year" award.
Novaia Sibir: [4] This also covers her winning that award.
Gazeta.Ru: [5]
NGS: [6]
FashionUnited: [7]
Vogue cover (Russian edition): [8]
There are others but I believe this should be enough to show notability. Ostalgia ( talk) 08:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 22:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. ( non-admin closure)‎ LibStar ( talk) 22:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Sebastian Elmaloglou

AfDs for this article:
Sebastian Elmaloglou (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Last AfD was no consensus over 13 years ago. Fails WP:NACTOR, no multiple significant roles. LibStar ( talk) 22:39, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 21:22, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Nnamdi Chife

Nnamdi Chife (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG or WP:NPOL. Current sources do not count towards GNG and a BEFORE makes no difference. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, or a vehicle for advertising and showcasing. Vanderwaalforces ( talk) 22:00, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. If an editor would like to work on this in Draft space, contact me or go to WP:REFUND. But right now, the consensus is to Delete. Liz Read! Talk! 21:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Brant Gardner

Brant Gardner (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I think that if this person is notable it is because of his apologetics and the books that he has authored. The fact that he has done graduate work in Mesoamerican studies likely gains him credence with his faith community, but he certainly does not pass WP:NACADEMIC, so I don't think we would argue that his notability derives from that. He may be fairly famous within Mormon circles, but I am having a hard time seeing anyone notice his apologetics outside of those circles. This is not the same thing as a William Lane Craig, e.g. This is a fairly obscure apologist whose work is lauded mostly on the basis of the ongoing vain hope of believers that there will be evidence discovered to confirm that the Book of Mormon is historical fact. jps ( talk) 19:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Religion, Latter Day Saints, Latin America, and Utah. jps ( talk) 19:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep: with better sourcing... I found this [9] talking about a presentation he made with some analysis of his theories presented, and [10] and [11] where more of his ideas are analyzed. Not the best sourcing, but it's a small field of study to begin with. Oaktree b ( talk) 20:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    One more [12] (ProQuest), much of it is "Gardner says" though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 08:06, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment In the second link above, it may difficult to see the relevance to this discussion right away. But Brent Gardner is discussed. The best way to see this is click on the "view all" link, then click on the relevant pages, and scroll, reading through the text. Regarding the third link above, scroll back a page or two to the beginning of the "Preface." I will i-vote later after looking at what is available. --- Steve Quinn ( talk) 00:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. The Deseret News article has very little secondary coverage of Gardner, with almost everything related to him being in the form of quotes, which are not independent. Moreover, it is routine for academics to be interviewed in local papers so there must be many such pieces to count towards C7. Deseret News, as property of the LDS church, is also not an independent source on topics concerning Mormonism, so that source wouldn't count even if it was secondary SIGCOV.
    The Interpreter is an LDS-adherent journal and so is not an independent source on Mormons, and the first piece in question is firmly situated in-universe (Notice that Runnells completely ignores what Mormon and Moroni provide as eyewitness descriptions. He makes an argument based on authority that totally ignores the two most significant eyewitness authorities.) so is not a reliable source in general. The second source is the preface to Gardner's own work and so is obviously not independent. JoelleJay ( talk) 02:35, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Keep as per Oaktree b. Leo1pard ( talk) 05:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 21:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Northcliff, Indiana

Northcliff, Indiana (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Yet another NN subdivision around Columbus that in this case sprung up around 1960. Searching was inhibited by a neighborhood in Bloomington and by Google's Artificially Unintelligent decision to treat "north" as a synonym of "Northcliff", but even so I found nothing. Mangoe ( talk) 19:18, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy keep‎. Interested editors are encouraged to improve this article. Liz Read! Talk! 21:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Visoki Dečani

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Contains unverified information that loses the neutrality of the article Kokenspun ( talk) 19:08, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 07:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Saidullah Karimi

Saidullah Karimi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Proposed for notability; there are a set of personsal-interest stories from 2021 about Karimi building a robot from waste, covered in the New York Times and elsewhere. Elsewhere, there's worthy work on prostheses and a case study of a migrant's experience, but the biography doesn't seem to reach WP:BIO. Klbrain ( talk) 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://taz.de/Neuanfang-von-Fluechtlingen-in-Athen/!5423033/ Yes Yes Seems so No About the family as a whole, and Saidulla is essentially just quoted ✘ No
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/world/europe/afghanistan-refugee-hope.html Yes Yes Paper of record Yes Complete profile of Saidullah Karimi ✔ Yes
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/afghan-inspires-other-refugees-with-mini-robot-creation-in-greece/2410300 ~ A good chunk of it is quoted. Yes Seems so Yes ~ Partial
https://me.mashable.com/tech-1/14941/afghan-refugee-creates-robot-from-recycled-waste-using-war-time-experience Yes ~ WP:MASHABLE Yes ~ Partial
https://greece.iom.int/stories/story-karimi-saidullah-who-experienced-technician-hobby-robotics ? I think this is a refugee organization Yes Yes ? Unknown
https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2021-10/flucht-afghanistan-saidullah-karimi-athen-griechenland-arbeit-roboterbau Yes Only partially using quotes Yes Paper of record Yes ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}.

TLA tlak 01:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 19:17, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 21:29, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Paranga (football)

Paranga (football) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article is a terribly written synthesis of ideas relating to corruption in Greek football. Angryapathy ( talk) 18:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 21:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Matrix and tensor objects for numerical simulations

Matrix and tensor objects for numerical simulations (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Completely fails WP:NOTTEXTBOOK, appears to be a tutorial/course rather than an encyclopedic article. Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 18:42, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Engineering and Mathematics. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Chill please! I do not think we need harsh words (by anyone) so I will strongly suggest toning down this discussion. It should be clear that a good scientist ( Fritzudo) is also new to Wikipedia, and has written an article which while interesting, is not what Wikipedia is about. He is probably also not aware that many (perhaps most) of the comments on this page have come from senior scientists and/or emeriti, some of whom have sought privacy. However, if one were to look carefully into their contributions it should rapidly become clear that they are almost all very experienced. N.B., I am deliberately placing this at the top in the hope of toning down this discussion. Ldm1954 ( talk) 01:52, 18 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    N.B., as I was writing this @ Fritzudo has been blocked by an admin. Ldm1954 ( talk) 01:54, 18 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NOTTEXTBOOK and not-so-subtle WP:COI given the username of the article creator and the references cited. This does not have the tone and scope of an encyclopedia article. -- Kinu  t/ c 18:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. When I first looked at the article, it seemed like it could remain with thorough cleanup, but after looking at it and the prose more closely, it seems like it's purely a manual on how to use a calculator and it doesn't have any encyclopedic information; it definitely fails WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. As a result, it contradicts the purpose of Wikipedia. That Tired Tarantula Burrow 19:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Dear members of the discussion,
    many thanks for your comments. I finished my article by now, and I regarded your advice in the revised version to avoid the impression of writing a manual.
    This article is definitely not a manual or tutorial because it is the result of thorough research in the field of Informatics (Computer Science) and Numerical Methods.
    Probably you know that the fields of object-oriented Analysis, Modeling and Software Design in computer science and software technology is of great success since a couple of decades, especially dominating the internet technology and cell phone applications worldwide.
    The impression of "That Tired Tarantula" about the use of calculators is quite typical for that technology: you call a function, put data in, and get data results out -> easy and quickly finished! The great advantage of object-oriented software for users is this type of user-friendly interface - it makes processes easy to handle !
    This means in case of the article, that rather complex operations of traditional matrix operations in symbolic notation are "simplified" by this very new user interface of object-oriented formulation presented in my scientific contribution. This supports also a better understanding and handling of linear algebra by the index based notation of tensor and matrix objects as presented.
    But for a better understanding of the presented new approach, the reader needs some basic knowledge about object-oriented modelling and programming, which you may reach by studies of the relevant literature recommended. The simple "calculator image" is achieved by use of the definition of my new classes MATRIX, VEKTOR, tensor BASIS etc. (traditionally recalled as data types), and the generation of class instances (variables), as well as the associated member functions (procedures) which are bound to the class objects (instances). The object-oriented paradigm comes along with the principles of encapsulation and inheritance, as well as public and private member functions, in order to ensure the safety of software code. This reads easy as a "calculator", but it is not common knowledge and needs the scientific intelligence of the WK encyclopedia !
    My article presents a solid theory about linear algebra and data management of index-based mathematical objects distributed in relevant chapters, a prototyping of the object-oriented solutions in clearly represented typical program examples ("snippet"), and numerical results as proof of effectiveness and accuracy.
    It includes an innovative formulation and implementation of object-oriented algorithms concerning
    - matrix and tensor objects for object-oriented numerical methods and programming,
    - a new matrix arithmetic by overloading of the standard arithmetic and functional operators by use of C++,
    - an index-based algebra for multidimensional matrices with a generalized matrix multiplication allowing the commutativity of matrix operands.
    Its use allows the whole variety of matrix operations in a new and easy manner, and to establish consistent transformations of skew-angled tensors of higher order in three-dimensional Euclidian space.
    I hope for a better understanding of the matter and would prefer your timely withdrawal of the deletion proposals.
    With best regard Fritzudo ( talk) 14:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Hi,
    Original research is not allowed to be published on Wikipedia.
    Thank you. Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 15:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Respectfully, your comments indicate precisely why this is not an appropriate article. This is original research written like a journal article. Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, e.g., it is not arXiv. -- Kinu  t/ c 17:22, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Nonsense! Fritzudo ( talk) 17:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not before writing articles here. Also, replying Nonsense! isn't the best way to get your point across. Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 17:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I am sorry - but you are to look at the references before opposing!
    This is published knowledge by Springer 2022 and research ended a decade ago! Fritzudo ( talk) 18:08, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I am sorry - but you are to look at the references before opposing! Fritzudo ( talk) 18:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    At the moment, the references consist of your own book, a link to download files on your website, a citation to a book on C++, and a link to Wikipedia's article about the Levi-Civita symbol that is misrepresented as a citation to your own work. I have tried to be dispassionate in my comments, but given your flippant response of Nonsense! and your apparent failure to understand Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, I see zero point in continuing this conversation. Kinu  t/ c 18:25, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    +10 points: /info/en/?search=Levi-Civita_symbol#Tensor_Calculus[7] Fritzudo ( talk) 13:46, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    As Chaotic Enby and Kinu have said, Wikipedia is not a place to publish original theories. As a matter of fact, content is only allowed to remain if it has independent and reliable sources (and if those sources can be cited). Wikipedia articles in the mainspace are not intended to be anything other than encyclopedia entries. Wikipedia has well-defined guidelines on what is and what is not allowed and what format content will be permitted in, so please look at them. Articles should also not be used as a means of promotion of any kind. Furthermore, please do not edit about anything that may cause you to have a conflict of interest; please do not use yourself as a source. And please make sure to respect the viewpoints of other editors even if you don't agree with them, since learning more about other editors' viewpoints can help you learn more about editing. That Tired Tarantula Burrow 18:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    You are quite wrong! Object-oriented modelling is not an original theory! It is state of the arts in science and technology since about 40 years. It is abstruse to qualify internationally validated knowledge from science and technology as not reliable and independent sources. I miss your interest in key findings of computer science and mathematical methods in the field of numerical simulations of real world problems like Finite Element Models in Engineering and Fluid Mechanics. Fritzudo ( talk) 16:51, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    First of all, there's already an article about that. Second of all, your article is written like a manual and doesn't present new encyclopedic information, so it is not an encyclopedic entry, so it cannot remain on Wikipedia. That Tired Tarantula Burrow 16:59, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    You have no cogent arguments: That article is about oo programming and NOT about numerical models! My article is NOT a manual, but follows a stringent explanation of the scientific context! Fritzudo ( talk) 18:24, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    We better finish that fault-finding debate now! Fritzudo ( talk) 18:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    At this point, I don't see any further benefit in replying to the author's comments. Given that they are repeating the same arguments over and over again and bordering on an incivil tone in some of their statements (and also inappropriately blanking the discussion about the other article they created), it is likely best just to let the process take its course. Kinu  t/ c 18:36, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    There happened no blanking the discussion about any article! I just wonder about the ignorance of scientific contexts. Fritzudo ( talk) 18:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Yes, there was blanking of a discussion. The link given above points directly to it. XOR'easter ( talk) 16:45, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Note that there is an article Matrix/Tensor Algorithms which I nominated for deletion without being aware of this one. Both are clearly not appropriate for Wikipedia. (They are not wrong, just definitely not appropriate.) Ldm1954 ( talk) 19:33, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: the conceptual material here is already covered in other WP articles on linear algebra and the both the title & specific content here violates WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. — MarkH21 talk 20:25, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Hi MarkH_21, this is a non-proven statement ! Please, deliver the reference to your mentioned articles about linear algebra for multidimensional tensors and matrices referring, object-oriented classes for arithmetic operations. We are excited about your knowledge. Fritzudo ( talk) 12:18, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Reads like a tutorial, please read WP:NOTTEXTBOOK before creating such articles. Killarnee ( talk) 16:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Hi Killarnee, MarkH_21, Chaotic and Ldm1954,
    I studied WP:NOTTEXTBOOK already and realized that my article is not to classify as a textbook nor a manual or tutorial ! It presents a stringent structure about relevant mathematics and informatics knowledge, prototyping of classes with typical member functions and proofs for the effectiveness and accuracy of matrix algorithms.
    It's a summary of accepted knowledge in the field of Numerical Mathematics and Computer Science with topics of Object-Oriented Modeling, linear Matrix and Tensor Algebra in index notation and related Matrix Calculus for multidimensional matrices and tensors. The extensive literature about these fields in science and engineering is summarized in the cited references.
    I anticipate your proposals for further improvements in terms of content, and do expect your withdrawal of the deletion statement, next ! Fritzudo ( talk) 13:11, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Your article is telling readers how to do something; therefore, it is a how-to guide and not an encyclopedia article. It doesn't matter whether or not something is accepted if it is presented in a way that is contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia. And as XOR'easter said, articles remain based off their content and how it is conveyed, not on credentials. And yes, there is already an article about Object-oriented modeling (sorry, I mentioned the wrong article earlier). You can expand with content that is not presented as step-by-step instructions, that does not use yourself as a source, and that is neutral. And please do not demand for editors to "withdraw" opposing votes; take the time to understand why they've voted in the ways they have instead, since doing so is more civil and helps with creating better articles. Anyways, I will not be discussing this more. That Tired Tarantula Burrow 17:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This page is trying to be some combination of math textbook, software manual, and code repository, none of which is what Wikipedia is. Moreover, it's full of WP:COI/ WP:PROMO issues. XOR'easter ( talk) 14:26, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    It's not "some combination", but a systematic integration of scientific theories and methods of accepted knowledge ! For a better understanding of your rating, I would like to be informed about your professional competence in these fields. Because you seem to be misunderstanding: the article is NOT just some conglomeration of everything! Sorry, but there is nothing about to find on your personal user page. Fritzudo ( talk) 15:28, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Wikipedia does not operate based on credentials. Demanding that another editor provide their professional bona fides is likely to be seen as a personal attack. XOR'easter ( talk) 16:47, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I am sorry, that you feel attacked and refuse to tell about your professional competence in science, please tell me, whether you ever had some experience with matrix and tensor calculus, and practiced matrix operations, like a multiplication of A * B or similar. In case you never did, it is probably not possible to understand the signification of the article at all. Your valuation "This page is trying to be some combination of ..." may disclose such deficits, and I won't accept it. Fritzudo ( talk) 18:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    It's not a question of competence, you don't need to be an expert in linear algebra to see that this is a how-to manual and not an encyclopedia article. Please stop accusing others of incompetence if they disagree with you. Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 18:42, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Dear Chaotic, I am very sorry about the prejudice of all your statements. Of course, a certain amount of competence is needed for judging about complicated scientific matters and interrelationships! Now you are blaming yourself, that you have written all your delete statements from the very beginning without any knowledge about the content of the article. The arrogation of yours is unacceptable and is counterproductive for any open discussion in WP! Therefore, I will inform the supervision of WP about your inappropriate mode of behavior in this deletion discussion. Fritzudo ( talk) 21:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    What kind of supervision are we talking about? X-ray vision, telescopic vision, or maybe even laser eyes? Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 23:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    We don't need this here. Blocked per WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:NPA. Kinu  t/ c 01:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was speedy close‎. We already have an open AfD on the same article. (non-admin closure) Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Epos Now

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Epos Now (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Just a small SME that has no significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the publication Kaptain Kebab Heart ( talk) 18:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 19:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

1802 in Ukraine

1802 in Ukraine (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Only example listed is for someone without their own article without a source to back it up. Not significant enough for its own article. BangJan1999 17:38, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 21:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Power of a method

Power of a method (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence that this concept is notable. The hits for "power of a method" I found are invariably about power of a test, or something else unrelated to this. Only source is an WP:SPS published by retired businessman Norman W. Edmund, and does not support the article at all. Paradoctor ( talk) 17:31, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect‎ to List of high commissioners of the United Kingdom to the Bahamas. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 19:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Roderick Gemmell

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Sourcing consists of name drops and Who's Who regarded as unacceptable. Fails WP:BASIC as lacking "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject". AusLondonder ( talk) 17:30, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 19:08, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Henry F. Fradella

Henry F. Fradella (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails NACADEMIC. No independent reliable sources to demonstrate notability. 2 of the 4 current sources are quasi-self-published (academic bios from his employers). Several non-independent sources used in the article, e.g. an award granted to the subject by the society of which he was president. Overall seems unduly self-serving. Barnards.tar.gz ( talk) 17:07, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 21:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Loveland River House incident

Loveland River House incident (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:EVENTCRIT. No lasting coverage, no real major effects. Lettlre ( talk) 15:43, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

This is actually covered for a few pages in this random late 90s book on religious conversion, of all things, however it isn't a reliable source. Mentioned for a few sentences (not sigcov) in a 2014 article by the Fort Collins Coloradoan. Other than that, nothing, so delete PARAKANYAA ( talk) 20:18, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was redirect‎ to List of Tamil films of 1999#January — March. Liz Read! Talk! 21:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Adutha Kattam

Adutha Kattam (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Can't find any third-party sources. Possibly fails WP:NFILM. Kailash29792 (talk) 14:42, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Now that all editors advocating Keep have been identified as socks, I'm closing this as SNOW. Liz Read! Talk! 21:48, 19 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Kayode Adegbulugbe

AfDs for this article:
Kayode Adegbulugbe (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Just as non-notable per WP:BIO as he was two weeks ago, but as an obvious sock/meatpuppet has removed the db-repost speedy tag, here it is again at AFD. Article creator never responded to questions about use of multiple accounts at their user talk page. Perhaps this AFD will end quickly with a db-repost, once the two accounts have been blocked for sockpuppetry. In the meantime, a WP:BEFORE search turns up only the same gushing paid puff pieces, primary sources (such as interviews), and passing mentions. Wikishovel ( talk) 14:41, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

First off, what evidence do you have that I have multiple accounts? Secondly, I did contest the speedy deletion before the notice was removed, and this is exactly what I said.
"This page should not be speedily deleted because Kayode Adegbulugbe is a reputable individual who has made great impact and contributions to Nigeria both economically and socially. He has displayed his knowledge and expertise in the development and production of Nigeria's oil and gas. He has also been a key figure in humanitarianism with his philanthropic activities, which have helped the lives of a lot of people. Kayode is credible enough to be on Wikipedia, considering the several media platforms that has covered some of his activities and background. If it is with regards to the references or content in general, they can always be adjusted, which is why every article on Wikipedia is always up for update and improvement. I am particular about ensuring that this article stays because it is deserving."
Your statement here is highly accusatory, and you have drawn conclusions with very poor judgment. What is your reason for wanting this article deleted? Have you carefully gone through the article and the references? I am starting to sense some kind of discrimination on your part. You have accused me wrongly and haven't given any tangible reason for wanting the article removed.
From what I know, every article is up for improvement and correction. You could point out what is wrong so it gets fixed, or you could even make those corrections. That's why we are all here. To make contributions. TJO28 ( talk) 14:54, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Sock strike, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Titus Odiase. Wikishovel ( talk) 00:00, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Same reason it was deleted less than 3 weeks ago, to be honest. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:23, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep: Just because an article was previously deleted does not entirely close the chapter of it being on Wikipedia. From what I know, as long as required changes are made and the article aligns with Wikipedia's standards, there is no need to attack it. The subject of this article is a highly recognized individual who is known for his national and communal activities. There are references from reputable sources to that effect. And I believe more will be published. TJO28 ( talk)— Note to closing admin: TJO28 ( talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
    Sock strike, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Titus Odiase. -- Wikishovel ( talk) 23:56, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep Delete for now – a good number of these sources are included at WP:NGRS, but Vanguard and The Guardian Nigeria have promotional concerns. TLA tlak 15:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ I'm tla: any further thoughts on the sources, following User:Vanderwaalforces' source analysis below? Wikishovel ( talk) 10:23, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
@ Wikishovel I think I added the article from The Nation which counts toward GNG, and thus is why I said "Weak keep". I thought The Guardian article, among others, would sort of support a weak keep, but there seems to be consensus that there is possible paid puff wording so I'll adjust my vote to delete. Thanks. TLA tlak 12:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Fails WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. Every single piece found currently whether listed in the article or from BEFORE, is nothing to write home about, not enough to establish notability.
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://thenationonlineng.net/uniben-honours-fashola-adegbulugbe-komolafe-others-at-48th-convocation/ Yes Yes per WP:NGRS Yes Although this is more or less WP:BLP1E ✔ Yes
https://guardian.ng/saturday-magazine/high-society/dr-kayode-adegbulugbe-a-trail-blazer-with-a-passion-for-humanity/ ~ Obvious paid puff. Yes per WP:NGRS Yes Still, obvious paid puff. ~ Partial
https://greenenergy.ng/uniben-honours-fashola-kayode-adegbulugbe-gbenga-komolafe-others-at-48th-convocation/ No The subject works for this organisation No No byline/editorial oversight Yes Also, WP:BLP1E ✘ No
https://africaoilgasreport.com/2024/02/in-the-news/we-are-delivering-the-oil-export-terminal-way-ahead-of-schedule/ No Interview piece No [16] "We purchase medium-length news pieces and profiles" Yes ✘ No
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2023/12/kayode-adegbulugbe-a-trailblazer-with-passion-for-humanity-kunmi-balogun/ ~ No No byline, source is marginally reliable per WP:NGRS Yes ✘ No
https://dailynewsreporters.com/kayode-adegbulugbe-a-visionary-petroleum-engineer-and-philanthropist/ ~ No one would write such a piece on their publication if it's not paid for or at the very least asked for. No No editorial oversight Yes ✘ No
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2023/12/09/dr-kayode-adegbulugbe-portrays-humanitarian-excellence-in-great-heights ~ No No byline, and yet another promo puff. Yes ✘ No
https://guardian.ng/news/fashola-adegbulugbe-others-bag-doctoral-degrees-at-uniben-convocation/ Yes Yes Ditto No This is how a news article of such headline usually should read, but again, WP:BLP1E ✘ No
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2023/11/28/uniben-honours-adegbulugbe-komolafe-fashola-others Yes Yes This time, with a byline and generally per WP:NGRS No This is just another WP:BLP1E ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}.
Vanderwaalforces ( talk) 18:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete‎. ✗ plicit 14:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Lowell, Bartholomew County, Indiana

Lowell, Bartholomew County, Indiana (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Folks, please read the sources carefully and look at the maps. This Lowell obviously wasn't laid out in 1853, as it consists entirely of tract homes. It also rather abruptly appears on the topos. And this is no surprise, because Baker's passage refers to the town in Lake County, not this place. This is yet another subdivision around Columbus, and lacks any notability. Mangoe ( talk) 13:30, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:47, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • The sourcing is indeed false. The Lowell in Bartholomew County was, according to Cowen's 1866 Indiana State Gazetteer and the 1869 Lippincott's, a post office, and more properly named Lowell Mills. Now knowing that name, the Lowell Mills to the north of Columbus turn up in some contemporary biographies, and also in an Arcadia book: ISBN  9780738534497 has the two Lowell Bridges (old and modern), the 1830–1880 existence of Lowell Mills, the various town buildings, and "Today all traces of the town are gone".

    Every single thing in this 3-sentence plus infobox article is false when it comes to the only documented Lowell that we have, Lowell Mills. The foundation date is wrong, per the Arcadia book, as is the location (the Arcadia book placing it on the Driftwood River to the west of the housing estate) and the first sentence should say "was a town in the 19th century" rather than (present tense generic cop-out) "is an unincorporated community".

    Uncle G ( talk) 09:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply

    The newspapers in the late 1800s talk about lowell mills, I didn't know what it was until now. There is train station named lowell that is mentioned. Also a Dam named lowell, I think the dam was for a mill, hence lowell mills, and the bridges are also talked about. I've not seen anything that would tell me where these things are though. James.folsom ( talk) 23:45, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    So a continued reading makes it seem that the Lowell Mills place was often called Lowell. There was definitely a dam, definitely a mill called Lowells mill. Also A whole lotta fishing going there. I'd image that Lowell Station was near there as well. It all disappears by 1890. It is probably named after Lowell Mass, because there is alot of Lowell Mass, related stuff in the local paper, indicating some connection. Arbitrary examples:
    https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-republic-lowell-a-place/143378518/
    https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-republic-lowel-a-place-1/143378731/
    https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-republic-lowell-a-place-2/143378786/
    I believe it was just the 1800s version of a recreational area, and not notable. I also apologize in advance for the inevitable flood of "It exists, KEEP" votes that are coming. But, it'd just be used against me if I didn't mention it. James.folsom ( talk) 00:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete An article in this mess is not worth keeping. Does not meet WP:GEOLAND as not a separate recognised place. AusLondonder ( talk) 10:51, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete It's really confusing because there still is yet a different Lowell, Indiana that still exists. Combine that with all the Lowell, Mass stuff and it's hard to pin down. I think the news articles I found are for a Lowell nearer to Columbus than the other Lowell, but I can't be sure. UncleG has at least established that the location of the housing development is different from whatever other Lowells did exist, so I think this should be deleted because we don't need to burden the Columbus, or it's counties article with every housing development that they have. Plus the info is all wrong, and somebody can always start an article about the actual really old place from scratch if they want. James.folsom ( talk) 00:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete‎. Per SNOW Liz Read! Talk! 21:49, 19 March 2024 (UTC) reply

United Airlines Flight 35

United Airlines Flight 35 (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable and minor incident, fails WP:NOTNEWS, WP:GNG , WP:LASTING and while an essay, does fail WP:AIRCRASH. The incident doesn't have major consequences and coverage stopped 5 days ago with barely any major news websites talking about the incident. Aviationwikiflight ( talk) 13:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Delete: The Wikipedia page is not really notable, since whenever has a part not fallen off an United aircraft?
-
UAL328.. But no seriously, a tire burst of a big aircraft like a Boeing 777 didn't really impact the plane too much. The only form of damage were the cars with no injuries. There isn't any problem with the article, it's just that there's nothing to add onto. After all of the "landing gear fell off the airplane" talk, what more information is there to add? The article is all filler based off an article released one day after the incident, a very brand new incident.
-
And the only reason the news isn't talking about this incident anymore, is because the aircraft wasn't in massive danger. It was just a simple maintenance issue (the news article sourced in the Wikipedia article doesn't specify if the maintenance was at fault by United technicians or Boeing technicians) as stated.
-
Some positives although, the incident has been reported by Fox Business, CBS News, NBC Bay News, ABC7 San Franscisco, New York Post and so many other news articles. Although they may be not credited since they were made March 7/8th so we may further wait or delete if the article quickly fades into obscurity and it is immortalized as a small part of United Airlines#Accidents and incidents. 70.167.194.163 ( talk) 22:27, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Delete not worthy of a whole page. Plane'n Boom1 ( talk) 23:28, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom, minor incident

with no encyclopedic value. Rosbif73 ( talk) 15:47, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect‎ to List of New X-Men story arcs. Liz Read! Talk! 21:33, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Murder at the Mansion

Murder at the Mansion (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Comic world arc/plot summary and nothing but (no references, either, one broken EL). No reception, or analysis, my BEFORE failed to find anything substantial. Fails WP:GNG. Suggest redirecting to List of New X-Men story arcs per WP:ATD-R. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:30, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 12:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 10:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Marnia Lazreg

Marnia Lazreg (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NACADEMIC. Yes there are a couple of obituaries here but it appears that only one of her books was notable and appears in any libraries. They may be notable one day but right now it's WP:TOOSOON 𝔓420° 𝔓Holla 11:37, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

* Comment: She has obituaries in the NY Times [20] and the Washington Post [21], calling her a "wide-ranging scholar of women in Muslim world". And another book review here [22]. I think we're well past notability, either for ACADEMIC or AUTHOR. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:34, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Don't know what happened there. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:37, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was redirect‎ to 2024 F1 Academy season#Round 1: Jeddah. As an WP:ATD. It could still be a relevant search term after all. Hey man im josh ( talk) 11:39, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

2024 Jeddah F1 Academy round

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Formula 4 events do not meet WP:NMOTORSPORT, WP:GNG or WP:SIGNIFICANCE for standalone event articles, and what happens at events can be sufficiently covered in the season article. MSportWiki ( talk) 10:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 14:41, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Douglas Kim

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Fails WP:BIO and WP:GNG. His only fame is as poker player during the World Series of Poker in 2006. Does not have further poker career and the article only focuses mostly his involvement in the incel ideology within the Asian American community, with no references. Toadboy123 ( talk) 13:29, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. ✗ plicit 11:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Matrix/Tensor Algorithms

Matrix/Tensor Algorithms (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Rather elementary page that appears to be a snippet from a text on C++ programming. Too trivial to merit an article, definitely not notable by itself. (Matrices & tensors are covered elsewhere.) Ldm1954 ( talk) 09:59, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Dear Ldm1954,
I am sorry, but the "snippet" contains an absolutely new implementation of object-oriented matrix/tensor algorithms concerning
- matrix and tensor objects for object-oriented numerical methods and programming in C++,
- a new matrix arithmetic by overloading the well-known standard arithmetic and functional operators,
- an arithmetic for multidimensional matrices with a generalized matrix multiplication,
- new objects and object-oriented member functions for MATRIX, VEKTOR, BASIS and a variety of more tensor-objects etc.
You may study the cited literature to understand better the innovation of this matrix/tensor calculus. The article is only a compact Tutorial as an introduction for the application, and it was not yet finished.
With best regards

Fritzudo ( talk) 12:34, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Dear Ldm1954, Today I changed the title of my contribution to "Matrix and Tensor Objects for Numerical Simulations", because of personal reasons not related to your critical comment!

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The result was speedy delete‎. Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs)

Monopoly Massacre

Monopoly Massacre (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Hello. I see not even a single reliable source here. Most are tabloids and one is even a forum post. I tried to find information about this so-called event from reliable and non-Albanian sources, but to no avail. I also suspect copyright violation here. For example, some segments of the article are 90 percent similar with the Memorie.al source. I believe that most of the article's content was copied and pasted from sources, and machine translated, as it was suspected by another editor. StephenMacky1 ( talk) 09:30, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Well if you don't really believe the sources and find them unreliable how about you go check out a documentary made by am Albanian historian named Marin Mema he's gonna help you,and my great grandfather witnessed this massacre he even was mobilized by the Partisans and sent in the first front of Syrmian front he even survived and when he returned in 1945 he realized what was happening and how they used to gather Albanian civilians to the tobacco factory in Tetovo called the monopoly of Tetovo so it's a real and important event go watch that documentary they even interview an old man who's uncle got taken and sent to the tobacco factory,and the reason why this massacre isn't know its because the partisans did their best to hide this massacre and make the Albanian people forget about this which they did. AcEagle12 ( talk) 09:56, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Could you provide a link to the documentary please? In initial searches I found [23] which I cannot read. Does this refer to the massacre? English language searches are scant and confused by the fact that "Monopoly" is an unrelated English word. Might this be known by another name in English? Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 10:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
here is the documentary https://youtube.com/-Li6ZrSLfzQ?si=_aX2f3uJoQf7oHGo,it's in Albanian and that's where I heard about this massacre and I asked one elderly woman and she explained most of it then I decided to do some research and I found 8 sources and decided to create this article so more people can read about this in English,since 7 of the sources are in Albanian and one of them is in English. AcEagle12 ( talk) 10:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
That link shows unavailable when I click it. Who made the documentary? Also does this massacre have a page on Albanian Wikipedia? I couldn't find one, but I don't speak the language so not sure if I am searching properly. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 13:00, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Wikipedia doesn't allow me to send a link from YouTube but search in youtube "projekti qe Kerkoi zhdukjen e shqiptarve nga trojet shqiptare" and it should appear the channel is called top channel Albania AcEagle12 ( talk) 16:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy delete. Straightforward copyvio of this article, as nominator points out.— Moriwen ( talk) 14:42, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Ah yes. That's unfortunate. 90.6% similarity according to Earwig Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 15:32, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy delete - I have tagged the article for speedy deletion. Whether or not there is a notable subject here is unclear but it is a clear copyvio and needs to be removed and revdelled. Additionally my searches to date have not shown this is notable. I had not finished looking, but I think that anyone wanting to write about this should probably find a related page and add something about it there to begin with. I probably would have been looking at the possibility of merge or redirect if there were no copyvio. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 15:38, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I'm deleting the speedy deletion cause it isn't needed the discussion isn't closed,and this article is very necessary to be,cause 300 people died,right here your acting like Vidoe Smilevski Bato who wanted this massacre to be forgotten. AcEagle12 ( talk) 16:19, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 07:28, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Kim Seung-hun

Kim Seung-hun (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Failed WP:GNG, WP:NBLP, WP:SINGER, and WP:BANDMEMBER criteria showing lack of significant coverage for individual notability from secondary reliable sources that is independent of the subject apart from passing mentions from YG Entertainment, CIX, and Stray Kids's related reportings. — Paper9oll ( 🔔 • 📝) 07:47, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. 98 𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 08:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, Television, and South Korea. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:49, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nomination, rather than restore the redirect. This is a textbook case of WP:Redirects are expensive. New account User:Leklu was created 8 March. Yesterday they made a dozen precocious edits for autoconfirm, then inexplicably moved this article to draft and blanked it, and blanked the redirect to draft. Then they immediately tried to recreate the article as Kim Seunghun: this was speedy deleted db-A10, and this article was moved back to main space. Deletion at AFD is the right remedy for this sort of game-playing, though no prejudice against recreation in a few years if his film career really takes off per WP:NACTOR. Wikishovel ( talk) 15:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I wouldn't say the Leklu user is doing this out of any ill will, seeing from their actions. I'd assume it was more from lack of knowledge of how Wikipedia works. You and Leklu seemed to have talked it out yesterday, and plus I don't think the previous edits were "precocious" (they were adding an upcoming TV show to the pages of various actors - granted, it was the same show across all of them, but it was needed info anyhow). Plus, they didn't even create the page - they only added a filmography and tried to move it. Granted, based on the things they did regarding Seunghun's page I'd bet they're not very familiar with Wikipedia's processes (e.g. the moving guidelines and such).
    Not commenting on whether the subject of the article is notable or not - I haven't checked out the sources, but I'd bet he's not notable anyhow. Wuju Daisuki ( talk) 21:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. No sign of individual notability. One acting spot does not have significant coverage. Evaders99 ( talk) 05:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 07:40, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Jean-Marc Alliot

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A n aviation engineer with no obvious claims to notability. The sources confirm that he exists and works for the organisations claimed but nothing discusses him . There examples of scientific/ engineering apers but little else. Fails WP:GNG   Velella   Velella Talk   09:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, " Lot of sources" isn't important, it's the quality of the sources that is. A source review would be helpful along with some argument based in policy.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:22, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Delete Not every single aeronautical engineer needs their own article. Samoht27 ( talk) 15:25, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was redirect‎ to 12 oz. Mouse. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 06:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Mouse Fitzgerald

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This article cites zero sources, and has not since the page started existing in 2016. The subject is about a single character in a niche show that aired on Adult Swim, hardly the notability required of a Wikipedia article. Samoht27 ( talk) 06:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy deleted‎ by Courcelles ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) as "Mass deletion of pages added by SoilMineo39, G5". (non-admin closure) WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Nashruddin Zakaria

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Fails WP:GNG, content of the article mostly about his family, not suited for Wikipedia WP:NOTGENEALOGY. Attempted to PROD but blocked by IP editor (possibly sock/blocked editor) Ckfasdf ( talk) 06:12, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect‎ to American Idol (season 22). Content is retained in case her career takes off and she receives more coverage from reliable sources. Liz Read! Talk! 21:54, 19 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Abi Carter

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Coverage does not go "beyond the context of a single event" per WP:NOTWHOSWHO, in this case, one audition on one episode of a reality show (an extremely minor "event"). Even if coverage continues in the future it is highly unlikely to warrant more than some sentences at American Idol (season 22). Heartfox ( talk) 05:57, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. If the subject is still competing, would a Redirect or Draftification make sense?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:35, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

I did redirect but that was reverted by the article creator Headtothestripe so I initiated a deletion discussion per WP:ATD-R. Heartfox ( talk) 04:40, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Redirect is fine; on the off-chance that she's the next Kelly Clarkson, we can re-create it. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:41, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Wikisteveb4 ( talk) 14:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to American Idol (season 22): I can't find much WP:SIGCOV for a standalone article. Completely a WP: TOOSOON case. Per WP: NMUSIC, I can necessary say she passed no way especially with no credibility for "discography" or notable "collab". Most of he sources were on her winning/qualifying for the American show. It is best it's redirected to the subject that treats much or credibly about her which is American Idol (season 22). May be notable for a standalone in the future.
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The result was keep‎. Liz Read! Talk! 07:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Ayersville, Georgia

Ayersville, Georgia (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This was de-prodded under the dubious claim that the supposed town is legally recognized, for which I found no evidence ( GNIS doesn't count, nor the post office). It appears to be a rail point which it was hoped would develop into a town, but apparently that failed to happen. I am becoming suspicious of claims of populations which aren't backed up by the census, and this one isn't: there's no mention of the place in the 1900 summary for Georgia in Habersham County, which is where this spot was located at the time. The histoy book would be something except that it's the source of the population claim, which casts doubt on its reliability. Mangoe ( talk) 04:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Georgia (U.S. state). WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:01, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep: As much as I hate geographic stubs like this, I suspect reference 4 is just enough to pass notability. Its population claim is dubious, but it does seem somewhat authoritative and researched (I wouldn't take the number seriously, but I think we can conclude there were a few dozen people living there in 1900). Satellite view shows there are still several homes and a cemetery in the area, so this wasn't simply a siding or signal point that someone at GNIS decided was a "populated place". But that's about it, not a whole lot of information. WeirdNAnnoyed ( talk) 16:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Discussed in the Guide and Biographical Sketch of North-eastern Georgia and the Carolinas: Pen Pictures of Beautiful Scenery, Watering Places, and Points of Interest on the Atlanta and Charlotte Air-Line Railway, 1878, as a distinct town with 50 people. Also lots of hits from people who lived there, including WWI draft cards listing a resident, and people buried in the cemetery there. Clearly much more than just a railroad point. SportingFlyer T· C 02:01, 9 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to Stephens County article. This place is very old and nothing of any import is written about it. There is only 2 sources and 1 or two websites, that I can find, (including the ones already on the article) that directly address the subject of Ayersville. WP:GEOLAND doesn't confer automatic page status to all populated places, it confers presumptive notability. WP:N says that presumptive notability is not a guarantee, and provides WP:GNG as the criteria that must be met to be a stand alone page. Ayersville Georgia simply doesn't have any sources that could be used to write an encyclopedic article. James.folsom ( talk) 00:24, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    That last sentence is clearly incorrect, there's quite a bit of historic sourcing that can be found in a web search. SportingFlyer T· C 01:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    Yes, and they are not written about ayresville, they only mention ayresvilles in relation to the main topic, train wrecks and the like. This makes them non significant coverage of ayresville. This type of coverage doesn't establish notability. They also typically only provide largly unencyclopedic information about ayersville. James.folsom ( talk) 23:14, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    That doesn't matter - Ayersville is or was a populated place, all we need per WP:GEOLAND is that it is verified. SportingFlyer T· C 09:43, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 03:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

A Motley Vision

A Motley Vision (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This isn't a notable blog. The only sources are the blog itself. Big Money Threepwood ( talk) 04:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

The Association of Mormon Letters is not a source that we should be using to bestow notability on a blog. jps ( talk) 15:40, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Why not? Thmazing ( talk) 23:04, 19 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 03:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Paloma Aguirre

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Paloma Aguirre

This article is a paid work by an editor who is being compensated by the subject. A draft has been created, Draft:Paloma Aguirre, which was declined twice, once for sourcing issues, once for tone issues. The author then created this article, which is the same as the draft, in article space. This bypassed AFC review, and bypassing AFC review is permitted except for paid editors. Review of the sources shows that this article does not establish biographical notability. Only the first reference is independent. The first reference, a newspaper account of her election, is a good source. The other four sources are associated with the subject or with organizations with which she is associated:

Reference Number Reference Comments Independent Significant Reliable Secondary
1 sandiegotribune.com Description of her election as Mayor Yes Yes Yes Yes
2 www.coastal.ca.gov States that she is a member of this commission No No Yes No
3 www.paloma-aguirre.com/ Her personal web site No Yes No No
4 www.imperialbeachca.gov The city's web site No Yes ? No
5 caseagrant.ucsd.edu A long account, that appears to have been written by her No Yes Yes No

So this article can be deleted, at least for now, rather than being reviewed and sanitized due to the conflict of interest, and the draft can be left for improvement. This does not mean that she is not notable, or that she is notable, but that the article does not establish notability, and so the questions of tone and neutrality do not need to be addressed. Robert McClenon ( talk) 03:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus‎. I see no other closure possible. Future action--Merger, rename, etc.-- can be discussed on the article talk page. Liz Read! Talk! 03:48, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Orders of battle for the Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1412–1414)

Orders of battle for the Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1412–1414) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Largely a WP:OR/ WP:SYNTH reconstruction based on very old primary sources, about battles and sieges we don't have articles on, which were part of a 3 year campaign we don't have an article on, which was part of an 11 year war we don't have an article on. Fram ( talk) 10:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

  • @ Fram:, a few points:
  • The chronicles are definitely not primary sources. They are in fact secondary (tertiary and beyond) sources. They were written long after the war took place.
  • This article is part of the Forty Years' War, which is covered in a number of English-language academic books/papers. It's not some obscure war. (The war's specific campaigns are also covered in the Minkhaung I, Minye Kyawswa and Razadarit articles.)
  • Re: OR/SYNTH: The chronicles literally provide these lists throughout. (In fact, some historians have called the Burmese chronicles essentially the military history of Burma.) Academic works essentially follow the chronicle narratives; See (Harvey 1925) and (Fernquest 2006), both listed in the Bibliography. The main thing they (Harvey and Leiberman) question is the size of the forces--which I have mentioned in every order of battle article I've contributed to. (Per Harvey's analysis, I've reduced the force sizes by an order of magnitude.) In any case, I have provided what the chronicles actually state so that readers could compare.
  • This was fine with my previous orders of battle articles; in fact, the Orders of battle for the Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1385–1391) was a DYK article.
  • As for the main article not being there, first, where does it say that an order of battle article can be written only after an article on the war has been written? Secondly, the Forty Years' War can be the main article until someone decides to write a more specific article on the 1408–1418 campaigns (as I did with the 1385–1391 and 1401–1403). But even if I don't end up writing, this article can stand on its own.
  • Anyway, I welcome suggestions, edits and contributions to this article. I don't see why it needs to be deleted. Thanks. Hybernator ( talk) 19:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 04:21, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Keep per article creator. How dare you accuse Myanmar's main royal chronicles of being primary sources without evidence! The Burmese royal chronicles are definitely not primary sources. You can't judge another country's national chronicles, especially since you're not Burmese and clearly lack knowledge about Myanmar. You're attempting to challenge the Burmese project, but there are few active Burmese editors. The list of royal orders for battles is clearly important and worthy of having a standalone article as part of Myanmar's historical events. I'm shocked to see you nominate the article for deletion, especially since the subject exceeds the notability guideline. So what's your problem? Before making judgments on national historical books, you need evidence to support your claims. Thank you. 1.46.91.225 ( talk) 19:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I don't understand why some are making baseless AfD (Articles for Deletion) for unknown reasons. That's why I retired from editing Wikipedia. It's very depressing. 1.46.91.225 ( talk) 19:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE – Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 03:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    While I agree that this AfD should've been closed as Keep already, no need to be hostile. Please assume good faith- Royal chronicles can be primary sources, it's just in this case that the earliest source used for these 15th century wars is an epigraphical 18th century book. The AfD may be baseless but it's easy to see how an average reader (who would also clearly lack knowledge about Myanmar) may mistakenly think the chronicles cited are from the 15th century. EmeraldRange ( talk/ contribs) 18:33, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply
အပိုတွေပြောနေလဲ အပိုပဲ အောက်မှာ အောက်တန်းစား လူရမ်းကား groupလိုက်ရောက်လာပြီ ဒီလိုသတောင်းစားတွေက မြန်မာpj အပေါ် ဘာမှအကူညီမရတဲ့အပြင် ဖျက်ဖို့ပဲ ကြိုးစားနေကြတယ် အဲ့တာတွေ စိတ်ကုန်တာ... Hybernatorလို ထိပ်တန်း editor တယောက် အနေနဲ့ မသေချာ မရေရာပဲ ဖန်တီးပါ့မလား အခု ခွေးအုပ်စု လုပ်ရပ်က Hybernator လက်ရှိရေးသားနေတဲ့ ဆောင်းပါး ပေါ်အပြင် တခြားဟာတွေပါ ထိခိုက်လာမယ် တခုပြီး တခု ဖျက်ဖို့လုပ်မယ် ခွေးမျိုးတွေ လုပ်နိုင်တာ ဒါပဲလေ, ကိုယ်တွေကအနေသာကြီးပါ Eng Wikipedia က မြန်မာဆောင်းပါး ၃ပူံပုံ တပုံလောက်က ကိုယ်ဖန်တီးခဲ့ပြီးပြီမို့ အေးဆေးအနားယူနေပါတယ် မနေနိုင်လို့သာ ဝင်လာပြောတာ, တကယ် စိတ်ကုန်ရပါတယ် ဒီလိုတွေ မရောင်ရာ ဆီလာလူးနေမယ်ဆို Hybernatorပါ အိုင့်လို ဒါမှ မဟုတ် ကိုဟင်သာ လို ပျောက်ကွယ်သွားလိမ့်မယ်, ကို Hybernatorအနေနဲ့လည်း သေချာလေး ဖိပီး ရှင်းလင်းသင့်တယ် ဖန် ဆိုတဲ့ အမျိုးယုတ်က တပည့် များစွာ လပ်သပ်မွေးထားတာ တချိန်ထဲ ဖျက်ဖို့မဲတွေများလာတာ သံသယဖြစ်စရာပဲ 1.46.207.139 ( talk) 11:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE – Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 03:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Granting that machine translation is not a perfect tool, there seem to be personal attacks in this post. P-Makoto (she/her) ( talk) 12:38, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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  • Delete. I would be more convinced of notability if there was more coverage from more independent sources. True enough that the 19th-century royal chronicles aren't primary sources for the 15th-century wars, but the royalty are plausibly invested in particular interpretations of conflicts between antecedent states. I would be as uneasy about citing, say, a hypothetical official chronicle of the House of Windsor for the history of William the Conqueror. Additionally, a footnote in the article reveals that the military mobilization figures in this article are reduced by an order of magnitude from those reported in the royal chronicles, per G.E. Harvey's analysis in his History of Burma (1925) in the section Numerical Note. While this might be fair scholarship, I struggle to see how it isn't WP:OR, taking one source (Harvey) and synthesizing it with others (the royal chronicles) and deriving an interpretation of historical evidence (the reduced figures being more likely than the reported figures). Finally, I struggle to identify any notable coverage of the "Ava–Hanthawaddy War" as the "Ava–Hanthawaddy War" ( Google Scholar, Google keyword search), even in Burmese ( Google Scholar, Google keyword search). P-Makoto (she/her) ( talk) 00:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC) [Self-struck P-Makoto (she/her) ( talk) 17:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete lack of coverage in independent reliable sources; if it is necessary to reduce all figures taken from them by an order of magnitude, the royal chronicles are clearly not reliable. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 00:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: Article without much prose and too many charts. Regardless, I don't see notability and can barely find mention of this battle from many centuries ago. I don't see notability. Oaktree b ( talk) 02:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Comment puppet students of a someome arrived here by an order from Whatsapp group. Shame! 1.46.207.139 ( talk) 11:51, 6 March 2024 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE – Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 03:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Royal chronicles are undeniably the primary sources of Burmese history of royal kingdoms. Htanaungg ( talk) 01:57, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep: I'll try to answer the concerns raised here. I'll assume good faith as I can't assume the general audience to be familiar with Burmese history or the country's extensive chronicle tradition.
  • Notability: The Forty Years' War is considered one of the most significant and influential wars in Burmese history. It is covered prominently in every major English language work on general Burmese history. Starting from ( Phayre 1883), ( Harvey 1925), ( Hall 1960), ( Htin Aung 1967), ( Aung-Thwin and Aung-Thwin 2013). Many of these are available online. For more specific works on the war itself, check out ( Fernquest 2006). ( Aung-Thwin 2017) covers and Ava and Hanthawaddy Pegu between the 14th and 16 centuries, and the war of course is covered extensively as it preserved Pegu's independence. The war is listed in this ( Dictionary of Wars by George Kohn 2006).
  • Sourcing: The extant chronicles are not primary sources by a long shot. The Burmese chronicles article covers that extensively. (For the record, I contributed to that article.) You can check out the sources. The earliest chronicle that covers the war was translated into Burmese (from Mon) in the 1560s. The first national chronicle, the Maha Yazawin was written in 1724, and the Yazawin Thit chronicle (1798) actually corrected some of the dates based on epigraphical evidence. The Hmannan (1832) was based on the Maha Yazawin and took many of the dates from the Yazawin Thit.
  • Some of the sources of the chronicles have survived. The Royal Orders of Burma, 1598–1885 is viewable online. There's a five volume work on ancient stone inscriptions from the Pagan to Ava periods. This earlier, smaller 1899 work has English translations.
  • Reliability: AFAIK, no historian has questioned that the war took place, or that the various regiments from different regions participated. What some have questioned about the number of troops, I have mentioned it prominently in every order of article. In general, historians consider the Burmese chronicles to be very reliable. I can supply the quotes from the likes of Victor Lieberman, G.E. Harvey, D.G.E. Hall. Are they completely neutral? Or 100% accurate? Of course not. But all of the Burma/Myanmar historians have referenced the chronicles.
  • Little Prose: This article is meant to be on orders of battle. From what I can see, most orders of battle articles have little prose. As far as the charts, I took the time to put the regiments in a table.
  • Anyway, I don't expect every editor to be fully up to speed on Burmese history. I welcome suggestions to improve the article. Cheers, Hybernator ( talk) 04:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    • Notability: the sources raised would be useful if we were discussing the notability of Forty Years' War. We are not—we are discussing Orders of battle for the Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1412–1414). Just because a topic is notable does not mean every conceivable subtopic is.
    • Source reliability: if historians have questioned the number of troops, declined to provide more than a ratio, but you have calculated seemingly-precise numbers based on a throwaway line in a 99-year old source, then that is original research.
    • Previous contributions: Thousands of articles which have gone through DYK and GA have been deleted. I myself have even successfully nominated a couple of featured articles for deletion. Vague gestures to the past are meaningless. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 06:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • I fully agree that not every subtopic is automatically notable. At the same time, there are many precedences for "sub-topic" articles on wars. Look at the Napoleonic Wars and several "sub" articles: War of the Third Coalition, Fourth Coalition, etc. Likewise for order of battle articles: many order of battle articles are at the battle level, much more specific than at the campaign level. In this case, yes, all of the individual campaigns of the Forty Year's War are covered in the English language works I mentioned above. Don't take my word: some of them like (Fernquest 2006) are freely viewable online. (Now, I don't think being covered in an English language work or being Googleable should be the main criterion for notability but I recognize it's one of the inherent factors here.)
  • Re: "throw-away line about the troop strength" by Harvey. Well, I also quoted Lieberman's take from his 1984 book which concurs with Harvey's take. Other than dividing the chronicle figures by ten, I haven't created any what you call "seemingly precise" figures. In fact, I've gone to great lengths to list the figures reported in the various chronicles; see the article's notes section because I want people to be able to double-check the figures. You'll see that some of the battles don't have any figures because none of the chronicles provides any. In some of the battles, chronicles provide regimental commanders, but in many cases, only the lead commanders are mentioned. Hybernator ( talk) 22:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    I am accustomed to assuming good faith about sources I can't access; that is not the problem. What's becoming problematic is that even the accessible sources you tell us are about the topic don't seem to really be. The Fernquest (2006) article never mentions an Ava–Hanthawaddy War, or Hanthawaddy for that matter (except in the title of a bibliographic item cited only once). But this is only the tip of the iceberg of problems.
    The nominated Wikipedia article states ( permanent link) that The orders of battle for Hanthawaddy Pegu are mainly sourced from Nai Pan Hla's version of the Razadarit Ayedawbon. Meanwhile, Fernquest tells us on page 4 that there are problems with the primary sources used to write "Rajadhirat Ayeidawpon" (I gather this is a different transliteration of Razadarit Ayedawbon) and adds that When we read of Rajadhirat and his exploits we can never be quite sure whether we are reading historical fact or fiction (bolding added) and that the resulting "ethno-history" that we now have has to best be characterized as indigenous intellectual history, not the history of events at all (bolding added). And yet the Wikipedia article treats the Razadarit Ayedawbon as a reliable source, when it makes claims about deeds of Razadarit/Rajadhirat may not have even happened?
    And every time I reread, I seem to notice more WP:OR in the article, like this: The Razadarit Ayedawbon gives the 5th waxing of Nadaw 770 ME [sic] as the start of the Prome campaign.[10] However, the 770 ME is a typographical error since the main chronicles say the campaign took place in 774 ME. This means the invasion date was probably the 5th waxing of Nadaw 774 ME (8 November 1412). What is the second sentence cited to? Nothing. It is the Wikipedian's original research, extrapolating beyond what some troublingly unreliable sources state.
    The appropriate step at this point would be to delete this article and to self-nominate for deletion articles like Orders of battle for the Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1385–1391), which have the same problems. P-Makoto (she/her) ( talk) 23:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • The topic of (Fernquest 2006) is about King Razadarit, and most of the campaigns of the Forty Years' War that took place during the king's reign. Hanthawaddy is the classical name of Pegu. Ava–Hanthawaddy War is also called Ava–Pegu War.
  • Regarding the date (5th waxing of Nadaw 770 ME), yes, the reported date in the Razadarit Ayedawbon is different from the 774 ME date reported in the main chronicles. What's wrong with reporting that chronicles don't always agree? In fact, there are many other chronicle reporting differences, and I've taken the time to report both sides. The Razadarit was written from the Hanthawaddy perspective while the main chronicles are from Ava's. In fact, the last two pages of Fernquest's article provide a comparison between the Razadarit and the Maha Yazawin (U Kala).
  • AFAIK, all the major books on Burmese history (see above) cover the war, and they all cite the chronicles (primarily the Maha Yazawin (U Kala) and Hmannan chronicles). We have contemporary inscriptional evidence of the war. (It's surreal I even have to be arguing about this.) In fact, I'm not aware of any works that say the war and the campaigns didn't take place. It's fine to challenge/update/remove certain sections of the article. But it's another to say an article on a notable subject must be deleted. Hybernator ( talk) 00:47, 11 March 2024 (UTC) reply
    As AirshipJungleman29 already explained, gesturing to the main topic isn't sufficient to establish the notability and verifiability of this subtopic. P-Makoto (she/her) ( talk) 00:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Keep It's likely that this article could be classified as a type of WP:LISTV, given its focus on a significant part of the historical war campaign in Myanmar. However, if possible, this article should be merged into the main Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1408–1418). If merged, the article size would become too large and unsuitable for Wikipedia, so splitting it into a sub-article seems like a better approach, in my opinion. 180.183.224.201 ( talk) 19:08, 11 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
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  • Keep, weakly: EmeraldRange's question about whether the sourcing issue is fundamentally unrecoverable made me rethink and reread the arguments. I have struck my above delete !vote. I also got around to checking on what Hybernator said about Hanthawaddy also being known as Pegu, and it turns out that while I couldn't find the "Ava–Hanthawaddy War", Ava–Pegu War does have hits on GoogleScholar. I think the article still has problems (possibly it has the wrong name, and I think parts of it are WP:OR that should be removed), but I'm not as sure anymore that deletion is the right answer. P-Makoto (she/her) ( talk) 17:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus‎. Liz Read! Talk! 03:41, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

International SOS

AfDs for this article:
International SOS (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NORG, Also seeing previous deletion, the discussion closer is a confirmed sockpuppet. /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/International_SOS Pridemanty ( talk) 07:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Question to nominator: There have been 2 AFDs for this article prior to this one. The first one (the sockpuppet one) was closed in 2007, however as far as I can tell the sockpuppet-ing only started a year later and the user was only blocked in 2009. The other AFD, despite there's only 3 participants, still ended in a keep. I apologize for my ignorance, but can I ask how does the sockpuppet-ing impact this discussion in any way? S5A-0043 Talk 01:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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Comment: The article is bad enough that I wouldn't dismiss the nominator. The newspaper archive shows enough mentions that I wouldn't want to delete outright as well. It appears to be a large emergency assistance service: [25], [26] IgelRM ( talk) 11:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was speedy keep‎. Nomination withdrawn. Liz Read! Talk! 07:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Tales of Tatonka

Tales of Tatonka (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NTV and WP:GNG. Tagged for notability since 2013 DonaldD23 talk to me 12:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was merge‎ to Web Standards Project. as an ATD as suggested by the nominator. Liz Read! Talk! 03:29, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Browse Happy

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Browse Happy (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:SUSTAINED. The only two reliable, independent citations are from right when the website was created, and they reek of churnalism. Might be worth a mention on Web Standards Project but doesn't seem to deserve its own page. Apocheir ( talk) 04:44, 21 February 2024 (UTC) reply

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Keep: There are two sources that are independent of the subject and provide extensive coverage. 2004-era CNET is reputable, and the German source is written by what I understand to be a career journalist (according to Google Translate, I can't read German). HyperAccelerated ( talk) 01:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was merge‎ to H2g2. Liz Read! Talk! 03:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

GuideML

GuideML (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I can't find any sources about GuideML that would establish its notability. The repo itself hasn't been updated in years, and I can't find any evidence that it's being heavily used. HyperAccelerated ( talk) 02:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was merge‎ to Tamaskan Dog without prejudice against splitting this back, if reliable sources can ascertain this as a separate, notable breed. Owen× ☎ 21:54, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Northern Inuit Dog

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Northern Inuit Dog (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails general notability and breed notability, article is of poor quality all of the sources that could be used to establish notability such as the news articles don't even mention the breed. Traumnovelle ( talk) 23:50, 20 February 2024 (UTC) reply

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This page confuses me. We already have a page on Tamaskan Dog. However, the redirect Tamaskan dog (lowercase) links here. Are these the same breed? Is Tamaskan an offshoot of this? If so it seems more notable than the parent breed, so Merge/redirect to Tamaskan Dog as an ATD. But really I'm just confused... PARAKANYAA ( talk) 02:40, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Yes that's what confuses me, the tamaskan clearly has some notability based on it's use as a mascot but this would only extend to the northern Inuit dog if they were the same breed/very closely related (Norwich versus Norfolk Terrier). @ Annwfwn is the tamaskan a separate breed? Traumnovelle ( talk) 03:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
This obviously is not a reliable source, but looking at this ancient forum thread they seem to likely be two separate breeds that are often compared. Now, if there were reliable sources saying otherwise that would be fine, but looking up Tamaskan + this breed just gets a bunch of garbage sources that seem to be copying from Wikipedia. I can't find any reliable source that discusses this breed as either an offshoot of or related to the Tamaskan. So delete I guess? The Tamaskan is (probably) notable but I can't find anything about this breed besides it existing and the singular study on its health problems. PARAKANYAA ( talk) 04:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
(also i'm going to retarget Tamaskan dog) PARAKANYAA ( talk) 04:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Not according to several of the sources, the Tamaskan is an offshoot of the Northern Inuit Dog. Annwfwn ( talk) 04:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Which sources? No reliable ones seem to say that from my searches. PARAKANYAA ( talk) 04:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
This is from “Clinical, histopathological and genetic characterisation of oculoskeletal dysplasia in the Northern Inuit Dog.”

The Northern Inuit Dog (NID) breed is a relatively new breed developed in the 1980s in the United Kingdom, from dogs of unknown breeds imported from North America that were bred with the German Shepherd, Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute and possibly the Samoyed dog [27]. The intention was to breed a dog of wolf-like appearance that could be a family pet with an aptitude for work. The breed has since split into a number of similar breeds including NID, Tamaskan, Utonagan and British Timber dog and all are growing in popularity.


And this is a primary source, so less weight, but from the Tamaskan Dog Registry’s website:

By combining the original English (Northern Inuit/Utonagan) bloodlines with the new Finnish outcross bloodlines, the first generation of registered Tamaskan Dogs was born in May 2006 at Alba in Scotland. At the same time, the Tamaskan Dog Registry (TDR) was founded for the purpose of overseeing the development of the breed.


Both of these sources are cited in the article text.
Annwfwn ( talk) Annwfwn ( talk) 04:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Okay, then merge and redirect to Tamaskan Dog. There are not enough sources for this breed. PARAKANYAA ( talk) 04:25, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply
Comment, okay, so the reason it was targeted there is because Tamaskan Dog was merged into this article and then split back out. From what I can see Tamaskan seems to be marginally more notable - used as mascot and in shows + recognized by at least one register. And again, I can't actually find any proof in reliable sources that this breed has anything to do with the Tamaskan. nvm see above PARAKANYAA ( talk) 04:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I was going to close this as a Merge to Tamaskan Dog but reading this discussion, it's not at all certain that these two dogs are related. Maybe this will become clearer in the next few days. So, whenever this is closed after further comment, I expect it will either be a Merge or a No Consensus closure.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:33, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 07:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Peter Plantec

Peter Plantec (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The only coverage I can find is the one now-deleted article linked as a reference. A look in the wayback machine finds this satisfies at least 1 out of 2 of the required references. A newspaper search and thorough Google trawling doesn't turn up anything. BrigadierG ( talk) 01:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:25, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was delete‎. ✗ plicit 01:36, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Kim Chung

Kim Chung (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 ( talk) 01:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete‎. ✗ plicit 01:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Ping, Washington

Ping, Washington (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Contested PROD. No information at all found about this place; satellite view of coordinates shows a rural intersection with a couple of scattered farms in the area. GNIS is insufficient for notability, as is the onetime existence of a post office. The place-names guide (reference 4) does call it a "town" but I have strong doubts about its reliability; it uses the word "town" to describe countless other places that were nothing more than railroad sidings or individual farms. Fails WP:GNG and WP:GEOLAND. WeirdNAnnoyed ( talk) 00:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Washington. WeirdNAnnoyed ( talk) 00:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • delete OK, here's why you can't always trust placenames books. Mr. Meany cites An illustrated history of southeastern Washington, and you can in fact download a copy from the LoC. And you will find on the page 49 that he cites a narrative concerning some conflict between the settlers and the natives, but no mention of Mr. Ping. However, on page 498 you will find the sort of hagiographic capsule biography of Elisha Ping typical of the period and of works such as this, and it doesn't mention this place at all or that he had any association with it. Also, there's the distinct problem that he was in a different county. However, on pages 548-549, there is a short mention of "Ping postoffice" under "Other Towns" in Garfield County, and it does line up with Meany's statements. But in reading the section as a whole it's clear that these were places that, by and large, didn't become towns, and therefore the post office evaporated. So, even the place that is supposed to be saying this was a town, doesn't really say that. And that's pretty much it. Mangoe ( talk) 03:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Firstly, I believe what Mangoe says, secondly there are no mentions in any news paper in the area. There are not any sources in any of the usual places. It's already known that post offices in the 1880s were frequently place central to populated rural areas to better serve them and provide a place for the postal carrier to stay at overnight. So It's not proof of anything. James.folsom ( talk) 23:47, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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