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The result was delete. Although I see some Swiss media coverage of the 2015 event, the article is entirely promotional in nature and would need a rewrite from scratch and submission to
WP:AFC. Sandstein 05:33, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Don't delete this article. The article include website from outside, which got more details. In this article, there are just facts about the event and of course some informations about the last event and tournament ranking list. If something is wrong, then please let me know in a privat conversation.
OnlyOneCookie (
talk)
11:53, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete—no evidence of third party coverage to establish notability. And even if there was, this reads like an advertisement, and would need to be fundamentally rewritten.
TheBlueCanoe23:49, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The result was speedy delete. Due to the number of policies being breached including A10 from the unsourced seemingly POV claims the article and author make, this article will be speedily deleted.
Mkdwtalk13:42, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Keep He is not a non notable person. He is a tamil poet. how do a englishman knew about tamil poet to tell him non notable. if he is non notable, sources are hard to be got.--wiki tamil 100 12:07, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
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Delete Her only claim to fame is being the daughter in law of Mahatma Gandhi. While this might be enough to make someone notable, we would have to have sources that showed that people wrote about her in significant ways because she was such, and we lack such.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
06:18, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Keep I will make it in a bigger size and it will meet the criterion.--wiki tamil 100 12:10, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
Delete You can flesh it out as much as you want, but until the player meets
WP:NCRIC then it shouldn't exist. 12:25, 8 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Spike 'em (
talk •
contribs)
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Mere list of battles asserted to have been fought by Muslims during Ramadan. Previous AFD (2007) ended with no consensus. Talk page has questions about validity of article raised over a period of years. Article violates
WP:COATRACK,
WP:OR and
WP:SYNTH in that it is a list of battles during a particular month that offers no explanation of why battles occurring over a period of 14 centuries should be grouped by month, no justification explaining why this topic merits an article, and no sources establishing that the listing of battles fought during Ramadan is a topic. Battles, of course, are fought in every month of the year.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
20:07, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a list not an article, policies listed above don't apply the same or even at all, as articles. As noted in the previous AfD, Muslims battling during Ramadan does have significance so I see no reason to delete this list.
Sepsis II (
talk)
21:08, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
But how do we delimit a list described as :"This is a list of battles fought during Ramadan by Muslim people."? Note, for example, that there are Muslims in most modern armies. Would we include every battle fought by a British Imperial Army in which a Muslim soldier fought? Only those battles during which all-Muslim units were deployed? No battles fought by the Briish Army because the King/Queen of The U.K. was a non-Muslim? The list itself as it stands has very fuzzy definitions of battle, with sentences like "2000....widespread fighting continued between Indian forces and the Pakistan sponsored terrorists. Jammu-Kashmir." and: "2003 to 2007 - Iraq War. Fighting took place over the course of four Ramadans." This raises the question of: What is a battle? Lists need definition.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
01:16, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete as original research. If sources can be presented on "battles fought during Ramadan by Muslims" then a list article may be justified. If no secondary sources describe this as a concept, then this is WP:coat rack and this list is unnecessary.
K.e.coffman (
talk)
23:03, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I disagree with that reasoning even though I agree with the deletion, many articles in Wikipedia have "List of battles involving [insert country, kingdom]", Battles of Muslims are waaaaay to broad.
Alexis Ivanov (
talk)
09:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete. I am the author of the article, but I understand the problem and were myself unable to find notable sources, so I'm fine with it being deleted.
Maths314 (
talk)
08:43, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete. I don't see significant coverage in independent reliable sources. I found
[4], which looks like a press release. However, that's about the extent of what's available in a
WP:VG/RS Google custom search. Google web searches don't reveal anything else. It's indexed by several review aggregators, but that's not enough to establish notability.
NinjaRobotPirate (
talk)
06:30, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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If the article doesn't get expanded or turned into a disambiguation page, then it's best to
soft redirect to wiktionary: the page has on average received 95 views per day for the last three months
[5] and these are mostly due to people searching for the term, as barely anything links there.
Uanfala (
talk)
19:30, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment. Even more interesting - it received 4000 page views on June 24 2016
[6]. I am wondering what large "non-event" took place on that day, where people had to look this up? That is amazing. It has leveled off to between 40 and 50 page views by July 7. Overall, it appears the average is actually around 40 page views per day
[7].
Well, I hope this fulfilled everyone's trivia quota for the day. In any case,, this is not a topic it is only a word - so my Ivote is for whatever consensus decides.
Steve Quinn (
talk)
05:12, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing
Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed
Wikipedia:Notability (biographies) requirement. " It was deprodded by
User:I'm Tony Ahn (creator who discloses on his user page that he is a PR professional, and I assume this article was created as a paid-for project) with the following rationale "Subject is in my opinion notable. Will leave an entry on the talk page" (see
Talk:Martin Shirran). I still, however, disagree that the coverage is sufficient: the linked sources focus on his "therapy", and he is not discussed much; in other words he fails the requirement of having in-depth coverage. Majority of the bio section is unreferenced (no footnotes), and I do not see any reliable sources for his life. The unlinked Times story seems not to exist at all (
[9], through I'll AGF it is just misspelled), and I also cannot find the Psychologies article (
[10]). The best I can suggest is that mention of his "Gastric Mind Band therapy" could be made by partial merge to some relevant article like
Hypnotherapy, perhaps. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here15:30, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
The article was moved to mainspace by an independent editor who felt the article met community standards. The Times story was a print story, not web. Here is a copy:
[11][12] Same with Psychologies:
[13][14]. And another feature by Hello Magazine:
[15] . These are in addition to national television coverage on
ABC News and CBS newsmagazine show
Inside Edition, as well as two articles in The Daily Mail UK.
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
21:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I do appreciate the scans (as puzzled as I am that there is still stuff published that is not digitized). They do however prove my point - they are not about the subject, but about his treatment (which I still doubt would be encyclopedic on its own, but that's another discussion). As for the subject, I still stand by my observation that there is no single reliable, independent, in-depth source about him. Neither do I see how he meets anything else in
WP:BIO. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here13:26, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
As per
WP:BASC “If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability.” An excerpt of the associated footnote reads “Non-triviality is a measure of the depth of content of a published work, and how far removed that content is from a simple directory entry or a mention in passing ("John Smith at Big Company said..." or "Mary Jones was hired by My University") that does not discuss the subject in detail.”
You mean
WP:BASIC. And I am afraid that IMHO, the coverage you've shown is trivial and falls squarely into the example of "Mary Jones was hired by My University". It's all about 2-3 sentences about him no better then a bio-blurb on his book or website, and then they go into the tabloidy discussion of his quackery, mostly based on interviews with the few gullible and interviable "patients". --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here12:55, 17 July 2016 (UTC)reply
None of the multiple independent sources can be said to mention the creator of the therapy "trivially," considering the number of times they mention him and the amount of information they detail about him, in aggregate: his nationality, which institution trained him and in what theoretical orientation, where he lives, where and when he established his clinic (which is independent of any specific treatment modality), the publication of his books, and more. All of this combines as per
WP:BASIC to demonstrate notability. How can someone be interviewed on two US national TV news shows, be mentioned over and over in two Daily Mail UK, one London Times, and two magazine articles that provide detail on his his research and career, and not meet
WP:BASIC?
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
18:44, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete He is a doctor who has promoted a specific method. However we lack either enough coverage focused on him, as opposed to just the treatment, to pass the GNG. On the other hand, we even more lack anything that would show he has received anything approaching the coverage to pass any guideline for academics.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
19:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Why set aside
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS? It clearly states it can be used in a valid or invalid way. I was merely pointing out that other articles have biographical information with fewer sources, yet remain notable. And that book you found was written by a buddy of his, which makes it questionable as a source. I'm a subject matter expert in this area myself.
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
01:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete; clear delete if I ever saw one. Does not meet general notability. Coverage provided is severely lacking. What worries me most is
I'm Tony Ahn's editing history, particularly edits such as
this one, which don't appear to be disclosed as paid edits.
FoCuScontribs;
talk to me!22:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Given the amount of coverage the treatment modality itself has, should there instead be an article for Gastric Mind Band therapy then?
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
10:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I'm not so sure. All print sources seem to be of the advertorial type. Online sources are based on the "novelty factor", are mostly in yellow media, and are not extensive. I highly doubt this is a widespread and sought after technique which has changed the "medical" field. It's fringe at best. You seem to have not read the other part of my previous statement as well.
FoCuScontribs;
talk to me!13:03, 14 July 2016 (UTC)reply
ABC News is hard news.
The Times is hard news. The Daily Mail is hard news. Hard news includes lifestyle. Psychologies Magazine is not yellow media either. "Widespread" and "sought after" are not conditions of notability. I find the insinuations of advertorials unfair (Shouldn't you Assume Good Faith on the part of publications that have no track record of paid promotion?). Which "part" of your previous statement are you referring to? The part that was not germane to AfD? Take it to the proper forum.
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
23:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)reply
What I really find incredulous about this process is nobody's answering me. People are responding without answering. Specifically, nobody's telling me why they think my interpretation of
WP:BASIC is incorrect. Someone posts Delete and states "he fails the requirement of having in-depth coverage. Majority of the bio section is unreferenced (no footnotes), and I do not see any reliable sources for his life." So I add plenty of footnotes to the bio section, from reliable sources. Then he says "I still stand by my observation that there is no single reliable, independent, in-depth source about him." But that's not required by
WP:BASIC. Then the next two people that post !votes just agree with portions of the above. The reason I'm incredulous is because none of you seem to realize that if you don't educate me, you get to spend a LOT more time in AfDs that might never exist if you'd just take the time to explain why you think my interpretation is off. Why is everyone acting like
WP:BASIC doesn't exist? If I can wrap my head around this, my agency will write better articles that end up in AfD less often, thus serving to lighten the AfD workload of editors like yourselves. So how is the criteria for
WP:BASIC not met?
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
23:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)reply
globo.com coverage - Online arm of
Grupo Globo, a Brazilian media conglomerate, article mentions they were covered by BBC Brazil and includes criticism.
Nobody is answering you because you are not answering us. We pointed out already those sources are bad, and you keep saying "but look, there are sources". Which we explained to you are bad, to which you repeat this and complain we are ignoring you. None of the sources are in-depth on the subject, they are mostly PR/low reliablity sources, and focus not on the subject, but on his tabloid-liked quackery. As I said above, I don't see how we can keep this except a paragraph on his technique at some larger article. Neither he nor his technique seems to pass GNG. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here12:55, 17 July 2016 (UTC)reply
To start out with, I think you ought to speak for yourself and let others do the same. At no point did you say "those sources are bad." You said there was no one source that is in-depth about the subject, they were all about the treatment. I pointed out
WP:BASIC which states that an in-depth feature is not required if several features together provide the coverage. No response to that. You also said coverage was insufficient. I improved the coverage. No response to that either. Then I listed thirteen more sources in national broadcast news, national newspapers, and national magazines across the world, which you hadn't seen yet, and when you did, you ignored them. Now you're calling his work "tabloid-like quackery," when 20 sources I've produced are not tabloid. Ignore me if you like, but it just means you'll be seeing me in AfD a lot more. Or you could educate me and I'd write better articles. Your call. I get paid the same at the end of the day either way whether I spend it arguing with you at AfD or telling a potential client why I can't write his article, as it doesn't meet the notability guidelines as they were explained to me. Its your time and other editors time that are wasted, not mine; I'm paid for my time.
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
18:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per
Piotrus. The sources are bad, and the "lifestyle" sections of major news outlets like ABC News are not "hard news", and are rife with paid promotion, and Tony surely knows that, as a PR professional himself. There is not a single credible scientific source validating the efficacy of the subject's alleged therapeutic method. I don't think you can "write better articles" on people like Shirran, Tony. I think you should turn down such jobs, as some other paid editors do, and thus do right by both your client and Wikipedia's volunteers.
Ijon (
talk)
21:17, 17 July 2016 (UTC)reply
First of all, I do PR in the Philippines, which is my permanent home. I think you should not speculate on what I "surely know." Second, I disagree that major news outlets like ABC News are "rife with paid promotion" unless you mean the commercial breaks. And you misunderstood what I meant by "I'll write better articles." I didn't mean I'll improve the ones i've written. I mean that I'll select better, thus the articles selected are more likely to meet community standards, which makes them better. I'll write better articles. Gets? And regarding "turning down such jobs," as I said above (please read), we only work with about one in six potential clients we're approached by. Like everything, you have judgement call. I made mine. I put up an article a couple weeks ago that Piotrus finds notable, and it doesn't have a third the sources this one does. So I see this one as notable and I don't see how such highly reputed sources can just be explained away as "bad sources" because you don't like the way the articles in them are written. If this was a bad judgement call, then explain to me why
WP:BASIC does not apply in this case, because he meets
WP:BASIC on its face.
I'm Tony Ahn (
talk)
01:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Most of those people were never sentenced for any crimes, so this is a gross violation of
WP:BLP. Sources that are cited do not verify that any of those persons is a "war criminal". Vanjagenije(talk)15:25, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Deeply, deeply problematic
WP:OR. The (originally researched) list itself falls under
WP:IINFO, but the real problem is the
essay, with statements like "a list like this might help expose shady (possibly unlawful) deals being made under the table between the music industry and the tobacco industry regarding product placement advertising" or "The implication is that Rolling Stone may not have fully supported Hillary Clinton with an endorsement unless and until she promised in some way to promote tobacco products" or "Jann Wenner, the co-founder and publisher of Rolling Stone, is an openly gay white male, and the biggest threat and competition for the object of gay white male's affection may be a non-gay white female". In short, this article is pretty much
everything Wikipedia is not.
Kolbasz (
talk)
13:53, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete - If this were an article listing songs which had been individually, or as a group, covered in reliable sources about, say, songs influencing kids to smoke, that might be acceptable (depending on the sources, of course). Unfortunately, this looks to be 100%
WP:OR -- loading a bunch of song lyrics (the only references are lyrics websites and youtube), doing a text search for e.g. "cigarette", and copying it into the list. It saddens me to see this much work done before there's an intervention, but
H. Nicole Young, Wikipedia doesn't cover anything that hasn't already been noted as significant by
reliable sources. If nobody has said it's significant that a particular song mentions smoking, then there's no place for saying so on Wikipedia. There are sources for the lyrics which show they do mention tobacco, but bringing them together yourself, when it hasn't already been done by others, is
original research, which isn't allowed (because, again, we only include what reliable sources say, not what patterns we see or aspects we think are important). If you think there's a way to salvage/rework it, know that this discussion will be open until at least the 14th (7 days from nomination). One option you might want to request is "userfication", which is when an article is moved to a place like
User:H. Nicole Young/Tobacco references in music. It's removed from categories, not indexed by Google, and not linked from anywhere, but the content still exists to work on it and, ideally, eventually to move back to be an article again. — Rhododendritestalk \\
18:23, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Do not deleteExample of similar Wikipedia entries that are not deleted: The "list of tobacco free music artists" in this article is similar to the "list of countries for which gay marriage has been legalized" in the "Gay marriage" article. The entries on both lists are: 1) finite, 2) dynamic as events change (e.g., if a country's stance on gay marriage changes or if a previously "tobacco free" music artist does a music video extolling tobacco use and is removed from the list of tobacco free music artists), and 3) extremely helpful and critical for people doing research in the respective fields of gay rights and tobacco advertising (to name just one field for which the list will be helpful -- and if the issue is that the field of teens' exposure to tobacco references in music is not as notable and important as the field of gay rights issues, please be clear this is a main argument being made in favor of deleting this article so focus can be directed at addressing this aspect of this article's problems).
This is not "original research": As for the problem of this being original research, this may be the equivalent of saying a list of capital cities in the United States is original research. The comprehensive lists in this article (once completed) can probably be generated in a day with the right computer program, and such lists have most likely already been generated decades ago by people in the field of tobacco advertising, so this can not be qualified as original research. These lists only allow the general public access to the same encyclopedia the tobacco industry has. For example, a parent of a five year old may be well aware (from personal experience in viewing the video several times with his/her child) that the 2014 music video for Idina Menzel/Michael Buble's "Baby, It's Cold Outside" song, which features the child versions of these singers dancing to the tune, does not contain any tobacco references (just a few months earlier Idina Menzel had won an Academy Award for her portrayal of "Elsa" in the popular Disney song "Let It Go" from the movie "Frozen"), yet a parent who is considering buying the published version of "Elsa singing Baby, It's Cold Outside" from Idina Menzel's "Holiday Wishes" Christmas album may be unaware (unless they make a habit of screening artists and songs on the lists in this article for tobacco references before purchasing any music for their children) that Menzel's published version of the song on her album (and the version also being played on the radio and streaming music sites) contains the tobacco reference "maybe just a cigarette more."
Subject is appropriate material for any encyclopedia, but especially Wikipedia: While it is open for debate (and is a possible Ph.D. thesis topic elsewhere) that the above example of Idina Menzel's "Baby, It's Cold Outside" is a subtle tobacco advertising technique employed by tobacco advertisers to target 5 year-old Disney fans, what is not debatable is the information supporting this premise: 1) That Idina Menzel/Michael Buble's "Baby, It's Cold Outside" music video contains no references to tobacco, 2) that Idina Menzel/Michael Buble's "Baby, It's Cold Outside" published song contains a tobacco reference, and that reference is the song lyric "maybe just a cigarette more" and 3) that Idina Menzel's only other tobacco reference in her music career (though she has several other tobacco references if one were to do a cross-reference search of her name in the future(?) Wikipedia article entitle "Tobacco references in TV shows" for her acting work on the TV show "Glee") is the song lyric "she's smoking like five packs of cigarettes a day" from Menzel's 1998 song "Think Too Much", which was featured on Menzel's debut album "Still I Can't Be Still." This information should be readily available from any respectable encyclopedia in 2016.
Most, if not all, of the information in this article is published elsewhere: It is not clear if it counts as "published elsewhere", but a version of this list [minus several additions made over the last few days while the list was (thankfully) made accessible and readily available for easy editing at Wikipedia] is already published elsewhere.
[16] The data is considered critical for any radio stations or music streaming companies interested in streaming "tobacco free" music, anybody interested in screening a song or music artist for tobacco references before purchasing it, anybody interested in pursuing research in product placement advertising in music, and anybody interested in pursuing potential litigation against tobacco advertisers [as opposed to (or in addition to) litigation directly against tobacco companies, which has proven to be futile, at least in the United States, ever since the
Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement has given immunity to tobacco companies from such litigation], among countless other uses. More time is needed to invite other researchers to add their input to this discussion and to add their data to these lists. Please delay the deletion date by at least a week, if possible, taking into account the special circumstances.
It may be argued this list belongs under the Wikipedia page of "Tobacco advertising" or "Product placement" or "Tobacco" under the subheading "Songs referencing tobacco in English speaking countries", but this may prove to be too cumbersome for these articles, especially as other related (and important -- and well overdue, imho) Wikipedia articles are added in the future entitled "Tobacco references in movies", "Tobacco references in TV shows", and "Tobacco references in video games". As an example, due to recent research carried out by researchers in Britain addressing the effects of tobacco and alcohol references in music videos on teenagers, there is a push to get the British government to consider adding warning labels to music videos referencing tobacco
[17]. It would be useful for politicians wishing to write such legislation to have easy access to a "list of music videos referencing tobacco" as a starting point without having to dig too deeply into unrelated articles and subject areas. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
2601:645:C300:31A0:3841:61FF:924C:724F (
talk)
23:30, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply —
2601:645:C300:31A0:3841:61FF:924C:724F (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. Note: An editor has expressed a concern that
2601:645:C300:31A0:3841:61FF:924C:724F (
talk •
contribs) has been
canvassed to this discussion.
Delete. Total essay composed of OR. Also, one mention of cigarette, tobacco, or another product in a song is not likely to inspire people to start smoking (and stopping smoking seems to be the intent of this article: see
Wikipedia:Soapbox). If say, a song has been widely critisized for promoting tobacco, then it would be worth including in something like this. These tiny mentions aren't any more notable than songs mentioning people with red hair are in the context of a hair dye article.
White Arabian FillyNeigh20:30, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete This is an essay and a list based on
original research by a Wikipedia editor. The introductory section is staggering and not at all appropriate for a neutral encyclopedia. There is certainly potential for an actual encyclopedia article based on the topic of tobacco in popular music, but such an article must be built from the ground up, based on summarizing what reliable sources say about the topic. No searches of lyric databases can be included in any such article, as that is the very essence of original research which is not allowed in Wikipedia. Only if a reliable source discusses the tobacco content of a given song should that song be included in any such future article. But this list article needs to go.
Cullen328Let's discuss it00:37, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete: I don't really follow some of the assumptions being made. Firstly, you say "it's similar to the 'list of countries for which gay marriage has been legalized' in the 'Gay marriage' article" – there isn't a list in that article, do you mean the timeline table? In any case that argument is
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS – personally I am not a fan of including lists on Wikipedia as I think it is unencyclopedic, and that's why I disagree with your statement "This information should be readily available from any respectable encyclopedia in 2016"... that's not what an encyclopedia should be about. The comparison is not valid anyway as the timeline is about actual events (the date of same-sex marriage legalization in each country) and mostly cited from reliable sources, not a list about a topic... if you include a list like this one, you could have a list about any subject mentioned in songs – alcohol, children, forests, etc.
You claim that this article will be helpful to people researching tobacco advertising – according to
WP:NOTDIRECTORY Wikipedia is not intended to be a repository of "helpful information". Then there is the statement "it would be useful for politicians wishing to write such [anti-tobacco] legislation to have easy access to a 'list of music videos referencing tobacco'"... why would a list of songs or videos affect a government's decision whether or not to introduce such legislation, when such lyrics have been around for decades without causing governments to implement any measures, and ahead of proven links such as deaths from lung cancer or other diseases? And why wouldn't the politicians have access to such information anyway? Radio stations and other companies have been reviewing songs for content for decades without Wikipedia's help.
I am also concerned about the imposition of your own guidelines and criteria for inclusion of songs/artists on the list – Wikipedia's guidelines are determined by consensus, not by an individual. The use of the phrase "tobacco-free artists" is also problematic – we have no idea if the artist singing about tobacco actually smokes in real life, or vice versa. The sentence "it is presumed that product placement advertising, where an artist may be paid by an advertiser to incorporate certain products in their artwork, is included in these tobacco advertising restrictions" is taken from your own blog and may well be libelous if used on Wikipedia. Your assertion that similar "Tobacco references in xxxx" articles are "important -- and well overdue" in your opinion implies that you are going against
WP:ADVOCATE – you are perfectly entitled to your own views on possible tobacco advertising in the media, but Wikipedia articles should be impartial.
Richard3120 (
talk)
02:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete: Wikipedia's function is not to
right great wrongs, but that's what seems to be primary motivation for creating this article as well as any future similar articles. Moreover, the mentioning of specific individuals seems potentially problematic per
WP:BLP. I am also concerned that
this Teahouse post by the article's creator
might indicate some confusion between Wikipedia and a personal website. Some of this information may be relevant in articles about individual songs if properly supported by reliable sources and not
undue, or perhaps even something like
Tobacco advertising or
Tobacco smoking#Public policy is used in a proper context. Wikipedia, however, is not really intended to be a game changer or used as a database of information for possible future individual research; It's simply intended to reflect what
independent,
reliable sources say about a particular subject, which is something that this article in my opinion clearly does not. --
Marchjuly (
talk)
06:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete: This proposed article is wrong on so many levels. Even the restrictive Guidelines for adding songs and artists to the lists:. Good luck with that. We do not engage in article ownership here and we freely allow anyone to change / edit / publish any playful change to any article and none are static. This would be vandalised to hell. I can't even manage to keep
Larry (cat) like I would like it because other editors have diffferent opinions and freely assert them in article space. Finally, this copied from the article: Below are lists of reputable singers with at least one Grammy nomination who have unknown status with regard to tobacco references. If an artist meets the above tobacco-free criteria and is added to one of the list of tobacco-free artists, or if at least one tobacco reference is found for one of these artists, please remove the artist from the list below after adding the artist to the appropriate list above. Feel free to add other reputable artists of unknown tobacco status in alphabetical order for others to research. is entirely engaging in and publishing original research and this is not what Wikipedia is for. I need a nerve pill after reading your article. lol.
Fylbecatuloustalk17:19, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment - I have removed the long list of songs, which was an apparent copyright violation. This topic could make for an interesting article if it summarized statements about tobacco references in music in reliable sources. As it is currently written, however, it is misguided. –
Jonesey95 (
talk)
21:24, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
The site in question does not have a CC license statement on it, and I do not see a notice on the talk page or in the edit history stating that what you say is true. Without such evidence, we have to err on the side of assuming a COPYVIO. A second-year law student should know better. –
Jonesey95 (
talk)
22:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
She has stated in a query at the Wikipedia Teahouse that the blog is (quote) "my personal encyclopedia of tobacco references in music".
Richard3120 (
talk)
22:53, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Whoever took the lists down, please put them back up or let me know where there is a copy of the latest version of the site before your edit. It is quite an ordeal for me to update this list on my web site at
[18] (it involves converting a pdf file of a dozen or so pages of this list to several jpg pages and then uploading all the jpg pages to the site -- even if I want to make one little change -- so I have been doing updates here instead) and I do not have a copy of my latest edits. I was expecting to make a copy of everything tomorrow night in case the site gets deleted (which, sorry, but would be one of the dumbest things ever done at Wikipedia, but not much else I can do about it -- as long as it is public information who wrote what comments about deleting this article so school children can laugh their heads off about it 100 years from now). I wasn't expecting somebody to delete the lists now. I clearly mention here (above), in the Teahouse, and it also in the reference list (supporting the presumption that product placement advertising is considered advertising (and therefore illegal) for the purposes of laws that restrict tobacco advertising, i.e., I am citing the non-encyclopedic biased, researched arguments and contents of my web site -- not these lists). This is an extremely important (to the public) personal encyclopedia that I am tired of upkeeping for the last four years that needs to be at Wikipedia for others to edit and add to (while still allowing me to do my own inputs, etc). It is also clear that lyrical excerpts are taken from several public sites "including the artists own web sites", they are attributed to the artist who sang them, and they are only small snippets that either I heard on the radio myself or my kids told me about or that I read in an article, whatever. This was not even a "close call" on copyright by the longest stretch of the imagination so I am not sure where that argument is coming from.
To find old versions of any article, click on "View History" at the top of the page, and then click the date and time of the version of the article you would like to view. (Do not click Edit on the resulting page; only edit the latest version of any page.) The version you have asked for is
this one from July 11. –
Jonesey95 (
talk)
04:00, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Justine Bieber and Bob Hope are tobacco-free artists according the the strict guidelines outlined in this article. If you would like to find them at "Tobacco references in movies" or "List of entertainers who smoke" be my guest, but the title of the article is "Tobacco references in music." You are free to find a tobacco lyric in one of their songs or a tobacco reference in one of their music videos or musicals (did Bob Hope smoke while singing in a musical? IDK), add them to one of the appropriate lists according to the guidelines, and remove them from the list of "tobacco free artists (in music)" (But note: you better do that before this article is deleted -- if you want me to add it to my web site, I mean). For now, they stay.
H. Nicole Young (
talk)
02:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Every person in this article either has a Wikipedia page or has been nominated for at least one Grammy award or both, so it is still not clear what the difference is between this list and the
List of Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual People -- except the criteria for "notability" here is much more clear than on that list (and can be changed or added to if anybody wants -- just say what it is first, like -- this person had a top ten hit on Billboard's Hot 100 -- fine with me, tell it to the Wikipedia editors, though, not me because it's not my decision anymore once this becomes an article and takes its own life, I hope, right?). Please do not get me wrong. I am not arguing to take the
List of Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual People down. To the contrary, as a lesbian who is probably going to end up on that list some day (but probably only after I am long gone and the importance of my arguments "way back in 2016" finally begin to get recognized with Wikipedia editors! - lol), I think that the
List of Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual People article is possibly the most important article at Wikipedia in 2016, next to this article, of course. Again, the difference being that the "important gay people" list will be gone (for good reasons like it won't matter so much any more) while the "List of tobacco references in music" will still be at Wikipedia in some form 100 years from now (like under the article entitled "Blatant examples of product placement advertising to teenagers by the tobacco industry for the 80 years from 1935 to 2015 before the Wikipedia article Tobacco references in music made it blatantly obvious to anybody who so much as even perused the lists exactly what was going on so that there was an abrupt end to this total BS, finally, from that year on after decades of governments around the world unsuccessfully trying to put a stop to it through legislative means"). K -- it's a bit long for a title, but you get the drift. :) Again, if you disagree with this -- that this list will be around in some form 100 years from now while the list of gays won't -- it's okay. Just make sure you put your name to that argument here.
H. Nicole Young (
talk)
02:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
The song "Wonderful Copenhagen" mentions the phrase "wonderful Copenhagen" umpteen times (I think it's 22 times? Would be nice to know if somebody would replace the lists). So if you are playing this song to your 5 yo in the car, do you think your 5yo will know the difference between Copenhagen the city and Copenhagen the chewing tobacco when the next song played is "Copenhagen" by Robert Earl Keane which also mentions something like "wonderful Copenhagen" umpteen times? Again, the lists have strict guidelines -- if it mentions a tobacco product, it's there. Let the person winning the Nobel Prize for their thesis project on how Frank Loesser's lyrics are the single biggest cause of cancer deaths in the world decide why that song is titled Wonderful Copenhagen, not some arbitrary Wikipedia editor. Again, if the rules of the article are followed (whatever they are -- they have to be clearly defined), there is no "inaccurate" entry. There is only a song that does not follow the rules or a song that follows the rules and Wonderful Copenhagen follows the rules. It stays.
H. Nicole Young (
talk)
02:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
H. Nicole Young, claiming that "Wonderful Copenhagen" is a reference to an obscure American brand of chewing tobacco makes about as much sense as claiming that The Star Spangled Banner is a reference to Star Tobacco International, or that Bat out of Hell is about British American Tobacco. By your warped logic every album ever made is a tobacco reference, since vinyl albums are inevitably labelled "long player" and Player's is a brand of tobacco. Please read up on Wikipedia policies before you work any further on this, as your combination of agenda-pushing, original research and casual racism is definitely not what Wikipedia is looking for. ‑
Iridescent17:28, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete Original research/essay. Frankly, after reading some of the above comments from article creator, I'm not sure if this isn't some elaborate trolling. rgds
92.2.44.196 (
talk)
04:05, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete - Blatant OR with no secure basis for the criteria selected. I can empathise with the underlying philosophy but the construction is irrational and POV. Has no place here. VelellaVelella Talk 08:52, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Wow. "the biggest threat and competition for the object of gay white male's affection may be a non-gay white female" is very problematic if only for the blatant racism. One wonders, first of all, how an NGWF is competition (because she might swing the intended object of the GWM's desire?), but really, what does whiteness have to do with it? GWM can't desire GNWM?
Drmies (
talk)
17:11, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete, or Userfy until the article creator gets a clue. This is amateur hour on a big scale. "Guidelines for adding songs and artists to the lists"? WTF? That has got to go. Articles do not contain their own how-to-write-this-article guidelines.
Softlavender (
talk)
17:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete -
WP:NRIVALRY is quite clear that such articles must satisfy GNG. Regardless of the specific name, the fact that two teams have played each other a number of times does not automatically create a notable rivalry per GNG. Significant, independent coverage of the rivalry as a notion in itself are required and I do not see this here.
Fenix down (
talk)
07:00, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Notability very dubious; fails
WP:PSEUDO and
WP:ONEEVENT. There is one RS, but it offers minimally significant coverage at best, and then only in the context of the one event, and I really don't think Miss World Malta (pop. 423,000) counts as a "well-known and significant award or honor" for the purposes of
WP:ANYBIO. —
swpbT12:38, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: What we need is
NPAGEANT. In most cases, it seems the national winners of pageants that feed into
Miss Universe are deemed adequately notable, but I don't know what the standard is for
Miss World. Be nice to have an open and shut set of SNGs (suggested notability guidelines) on this.
Montanabw(talk)01:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment I had removed the PROD on this article. My personal interpretation is that Miss Universe and Miss World are sufficiently notable pageants. For these 2 pageants, I am willing to suggest that a participant is sufficiently notable. --
Lemongirl942 (
talk)
08:44, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Redirect to
Miss World Malta - I am a bit undecided on this one and I feel redirect is a good decision at the moment for the following reasons
It is true that the subject doesn't pass GNG. There seriously isn't enough information to have an article. However, the name is a valid search term and the subject is listed at
Miss World Malta. A redirect is a good compromise.
There is a possibility that we may have an SNG in the near future where participants of Miss Universe or Miss World are deemed sufficiently notable. Should this article be deleted, we would lose the editing history. A redirect is a good decision here as the history remains available. If we manage to obtain consensus for an SNG or if enough sources are available in the future, this can be recreated. --
Lemongirl942 (
talk)
08:54, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect I agree,
Lemongirl942, it is good to merge and keep edit history where there is the possibility of a need to re-examine an article in the future. I tend to favor keeping a bluelink up when possible, even if it's a redirect. (As they say, redirects are cheap!). And, actually, I just WP:BOLDly redirected another similarly-situated article at AfD.
Montanabw(talk)05:04, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete -- "Miss World Malta" (pop. 400,000) represents fewer people than many states in the U.S. The subject fails GNG regardless.
K.e.coffman (
talk)
07:50, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep. I agree with the comments from Montana and Lemongirl -- we do seem to be approaching a "tipping point" for creating a set of notability standards for these international pageants. And until we do, the better approach (i.e., the least disruptive one) is to maintain the status quo while the community reaches a consensus on how to treat this entire class of articles. I also note that both the nominator and one of the discussants explicitly refer to the size of Malta when stating their rationales. If you've ever wondered how
systemic bias gets created, wonder no more -- you're seeing it right here.
NewYorkActuary (
talk)
14:41, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
We are in no way obligated to keep an article because of some as-yet-to-be-explicit discussion about the class to which it belongs;
WP:GNG applies as ever. I doubt you'd make such a weak argument if you had any "keep" justification specific to this article. And yes, pageant winners of large countries are objectively more likely to be notable than those of tiny countries; beating out 400 million competitors is a thousand times more impressive than beating out 400,000. That's not bias, it's arithmetic. —
swpbT15:07, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Concur with
swpb. Even if
WP:NPAGEANT existed, the notability would still have to be demonstrated via "significant coverage". In any WP:N__ guidelines a subject's notability is always presumed; it's not guaranteed.
K.e.coffman (
talk)
18:07, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect Preserving the edit history seems worthwhile to me as well--have seen a number of discussions on this pageant question just in a short time. (But yes for now I don't see sources for independent notability.)
Innisfree987 (
talk)
19:44, 17 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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I do not believe that "e-athletes" are notable unless they pass the GNG. Being mentioned a few times in The Daily Dot, which tells "untold stories unfolding online" (in other words, they tell what wasn't notable enough to be picked up by real reliable sources), does not add up to notability.
Drmies (
talk)
01:12, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Yngvadottir, the "extended mention" in USA Today is about ten sentences. Expressen gives him three sentences. The Wall Street Journal article is the only that can be said to say something a bit substantial about him. Being interviewed in Aftonbladet surely is something, but whether it is extensive coverage--it is if your standards are pretty low and and oriented toward trendworthy topics. So, sorry, but while I appreciate the effort, I am not convinced.
Drmies (
talk)
00:34, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Drmies: I'm going to ask you to look again. I count 5 major-media articles about Rekkles in the article right now. (I found and added 2 more after posting here, and when I started typing this, the only edit after mine was to the categories.) Admittedly Aftonbladet 2014-10-24 cites Reddit as its source, and is partly about somebody else, but it's headlined about Rekkles and was written to report what he's doing. Admittedly also, the Expressen article is short (and that's a tabloid), but it's all about Rekkles. Aftonbladet 2015-08-24 is mostly interview, but again, it was written to update us on Rekkles. Aftonbladet2016-06-19, which as you noted was in
Xender Lourdes' search results, is not substantially an interview, and I'll be adding it to the article if someone else doesn't—I suspect Google didn't show it to me because it's so new. To offset the gradual impression that he's just a favorite with Aftonbladet's writers, there's also Nyheter24 2014-01-24 (brief article all about Rekkles and self-made video)—and Sveriges Radio 2012-11-27 is an article about him with a 9-minute interview recording embedded. That's a lot of coverage in several important outlets, and I think the date range—from late in 2012 to halfway through 2016—also speaks to genuine notability. I can't read the German source to see how much of it is about Rekkles because I'm not going to disable AdBlock. And I don't know how reliable a source The Score eSports.com is, but that again is an article about his team where the hook for the article is Rekkles. Add to those the fact he's among those mentioned prominently in the USA Today and WSJ articles, and I am seeing a constant stream of coverage in independent reliable sources, a lot of which is extended coverage and the breadth of the rest of which is non-trivial. So regardless of my opinion of his line of work or of news outlets' strategies to get clicks (I note with respect that Aftonbladet tends to post English translations as an alternative to the Swedish), I do believe he meets our general notability standard as written.
Yngvadottir (
talk)
04:09, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Drmies, thanks for the reply you've placed. May I apologise if my one line keep statement above came out a tad negatively? I did not intend that. I respect your experience, views and discretion considerably. I linked to the google hits (a first for me too in all my Afd discussions till date) to simply perhaps nudge you (wrongly done to an experienced editor, now that I think of it) to the fact that the google search would have thrown up absolutely reliable sources (two mentioned by Yngvadottir above and another a WSJ foreign language edition) and significant interviews like
this and
this. Add the WSJ stuff and you have to give credit to the coverage. If we are not going to consider these as significant coverages, then I fear we are setting standards too high and being judgemental about each and every topic in nsports. My apologies once more for the earlier one line statement. This is a strong keep as per me. Thanks.
Lourdes01:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Xender, no problem, thank you for your note. I continue to disagree, however, with you, and I do not wish to lower our notability standards. Thanks,
Drmies (
talk)
02:15, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: Even if this article is kept, there will need to be a serious evaluation of all esports articles, as there are hundreds that require urgent attention, as they're collectively not up to par with Wikipedia's standards.
DARTHBOTTOtalk•
cont00:21, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep I'm not sure when the WSJ and USA Today became "being mentioned a few times in The Daily Dot," and the characterization may be a bit disingenuous.
TimothyJosephWood01:26, 5 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete and then Draft instead because, while these articles have been starting noticeably numerously, there's still questionability for several, and it's best to be careful with these. I suggest this one be removed for now as there's still not convincingly enough.
SwisterTwistertalk05:13, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The result was Keep due to the lack of calls for deletion beyond the nominating editor and the excellent editorial input by
E.M.Gregory in bringing references to the article. Although input in the discussion is admittedly limited, it would not be too
bold to say that the updated article clearly passes
WP:BIO and
WP:ARTIST requirements. A non-admin closure.
And Adoil Descended (
talk)
14:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Note that There are significant claims to notability in this admittedly unreferenced article. At first glance, he appears to be that rara avis, a notable, professional photographer with the restraint not to edit his own WP page. (We ought to give extra credit at AFD for that highly unusual quality in a
WP:CREATIVE.)
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
13:08, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Speedy keep I ran a quick proquest new search on "david Noton" + photographer. 40 valid hits, all supporting notability. First hit was this article (Spend a day with David Noton. The Times [London (UK)] 08 Aug 2009: 25.) in the Times of London, which was running a photo contest offering a day shooting with David Noton as the prize. The Times describes Noton as : "an award winning landscape and travel photographer..."(He may well have sold photos to the Times, I have no idea, but he seems to have sold photos to pretty much everyone.) A feature story (City showcase for photographer's shots from around world
Coventry Telegraph [Coventry (UK)] 12 Oct 2011: 3. ) A profile (WHY I'LL ALWAYS BE 'CHASING THE LIGHT': After more than two decades hunting out the world's most beautiful images, globe-trotting photographer David Noton is returning to Bristol. He talks to DAVID CLENSY about a life behind the lens. CLENSY, DAVID. Evening Post [Bristol (UK)] 06 Aug 2009: 22.) Then you have this (A man of vision; McLaughlin, Martyn. The Scotsman [Edinburgh (UK)] 23 July 2010: 18. ) long profile of Noton in
The Scotsman. A local paper (How chasing the light can make a stunning picture: World-famous landscape and travel photographer David Noton is preparing for a visit to Exeter next week to reveal the stories and adventures behind his most iconic images, writes Anita Merritt, Express & Echo [Exeter (UK)] 25 June 2011: 15.) all excited about a lecture he's going to give.
User:Rathfelder, I suggest that you withdraw this and just leave it tagged for sourcing. Cheers.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
13:28, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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As a parent, I do not want 16-year olds creating autobiographies on Wikipedia (see
WP:YOUNG). This is for their own good. I've already speedy deleted this twice as
Darien Joseph (Personality) and salted; before I go any further, I would like the community to confirm this the correct thing to do.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont)09:52, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:BASIC for lacking "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources" - there's just one, minor secondary source of a local paper's six-sentence article about Joseph starting a fashion blog a few months ago. The "best music video" award from the
Port Lincoln City Band does not seem to be a significant award. I can't find any other RS coverage online, as either "Darien Joseph" or "Darien Hage". --
McGeddon (
talk)
10:02, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete Fails
WP:GNG guidelines; searches for RS to back up the notability found nothing (although I'm not an oracle, so I'm as imperfect as the next person!) -
SchroCat (
talk)
10:54, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per all the above. The current content of the article may even be a hoax. The claimed 100,000 followers at Jo-Jo's talk page is questionable at best. I was unable to locate any Youtube channel, just a website for a Youtube partner company that advertises none of their client names. It's not even clear they have clients. ~
Rob13Talk18:45, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete What we have is 100% fluff except a local story from a paper in a city with 14,000 people about how a 16-year-old has created a fashion blog. In my county of 800,000 plus people the local paper runs for much of the year articles on successful high school seniors, some of which will mention not just what they plan to do but what they have done. None of them are ever close to being good grounds for someone passing GNG and this is such a case as well.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
05:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Keep The article documents that it is the most trafficked online conservative website. I don't understand the desire to remove it. It is clearly significant and any promotional items can be corrected.
JodyBtalk
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Unnecessary content fork which artificially conflates information from five small articles about separate (but related) airlines.
YSSYguy (
talk)
07:07, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete, merge encyclopedic content into main article and get rid off the non-encyclopedic stuff (which is unreliably supported by Planespotters).--JetstreamerTalk16:14, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete: Aside from routine announcements, the main reference offered is the NYT piece which describes it as "another start-up" while describing both this and another firm's applications. I added a reference to a Nov 2015 article about the company, though that is in its local press and also indicates the firm had 11 employees at that time. While it is a firm going about its business, I do not see
attained notability at this point.
AllyD (
talk)
12:50, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete. Absolutely no secondary reliable sources could be found for the award and also to establish notability. Article was written by
Kate A. Steel who has been blocked for SPI and is from a PR agency. Read my comment in the AfD
John Lincoln (telecommunications) where I mentioned that a PR agency sent me an email offering money to help and keep the article. Clear case of paid editing. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 07:08, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete as I myself had encountered this and planned to nominate; despite the recent trimmings, there's still nothing minimally convincing of substantial notability.
SwisterTwistertalk07:41, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete - as I note on the talk page, the award is not only unsourced, it is not found in the award site's database, and it is a place that gives daily awards (as well as monthly and annually), so even if it is a genuine award, it is likely to be a weak one. Other claims that were edited out were unsourced or weak sauce as well. Clear promo intent on a subject whose notability has not been established. --
Nat Gertler (
talk)
11:51, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Article was redirected to
Mitsubishi MU-2#Incidents and accidents after a discussion at
Talk:Jean Lapierre. One User disagrees with the decision to redirect and has restored the article. The notability of the crash essentially rests with the notability of Jean Lapierre - if the crash involved seven non-notable people there would be no article. The reportage focuses on the person rather than the event of the crash. The crash is already mentioned in the articles about Jean Lapierre and the MU-2. I am !voting redirecting rather than outright deletion; if the decision is to delete or to keep, there are a number of redirects to Mitsubishi MU-2#Incidents and accidents that would also need to be deleted or retargeted.
YSSYguy (
talk)
06:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - Significant accident involving a notable person, that has the potential to involve some enforcement action when the investigation is complete as well. -
Ahunt (
talk)
11:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep. Quality of sources would indicate that it passes the
WP:GNG. Given who was invovled, this crash seems more significant than any of the others listed in teh Mitsubish MU-2 page, so could be a standalone article. ----
Patar knight - chat/contributions22:48, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep I believe that there are many reasons on why this article should be kept. The old article was deleted as it had little information, especially on the investigation. Since the investigation information has been released, and is still being released as it is ongoing, I believed that it would be way too much to fit in another article, so I reverted the deletion of the article and added the newly released information. I also added other information. The article covers a very notable event. The event had significant news coverage, and dominated the news in Canada for two whole days. Not only is the incident one of the largest in Canadian history (in recent times, as Canada has had a good aviation record for a while), it also has a very notable person onboard. Jean Lapierre was a Federal Minister and Member of Parliament in Canada, and Prime Minister Paul Martin's Quebec lieutenant. He was also a prominent radio show host. This victims notability is also evident by the fact that his funeral was attended by the current (and a former, I believe) Prime Minister and his wife. His notability is not the only reason why the article should stay. Seven fatalities is actually quite a bit for aviation incidents nowadays, and it even makes it one of the highest in number of fatalities this year. Canada's aviation record is very good, I believe, and other countries with a good aviation record has articles on aviation incidents even smaller than this one. Example:
West Air Sweden Flight 294. If the crash involved seven non-notable people, there would likely still be an article. This is why I strongly believe that this incident deserves its own article.
Beejsterb (
talk)
22:50, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
The crash did not receive large amounts of coverage, the death of Jean Lapierre was what received the coverage. The coverage was about him, his life, his political contributions and so on. If it was a car crash or if he had died in a bungee-jumping accident, there would be no WP article about it and nobody would think anything of that - the cause of his death would be mentioned in the article about him and he would be mentioned in
List of notable people who died in traffic collisions or the bungee jumping article and that would be that; but if an aircraft is involved we seemingly need a separate article. As for the comment "The old article was deleted [sic] as it had little information", that is speculation.
YSSYguy (
talk)
01:03, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - established consensus is that aircrashes that kill wikinotable people are notable enough to sustain articles, even if said aircrash might not otherwise be notable enough to sustain an article. The MU-2 is not a light aircraft, having a MTOW in excess of 5,000kg.
Mjroots (
talk)
17:35, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
The MU-2 is a light aircraft - anything with a maximum takeoff weight below 12500lbs/5700kg is a light aircraft and that is why the MU-2 in question was not fitted with flight recorders. Such consensus as you claim does not exist. In the past that was a criterion in
WP:AIRCRASH, but - speaking as someone who used to invoke it all the time in deletion discussions - AIRCRASH has been thoroughly discredited in AfD after AfD over the years.
YSSYguy (
talk)
23:13, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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No significant coverage. In modern days of youtube "Top 100" is subject to ridiculous quirks, based in youtube views, which are not based on fame and notability, but on random ways of gossip. In this case it was a result of massive trolling (of an idiot, deservedly), as evidenced by youtube comments. Of course this is my "original research", but there is absolutely no "
relliable research" of the subject, hence my suggestion of deletion. - üser:Altenmann
>t15:06, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: I'd suggest refocusing the article as
Jacob Sartorius rather than on the single, as it is more likely that in coming months there will be sources that focus on the person than the song, but at the moment we don't know if he's going have anything more than his 15 minutes of fame, and this seems like it could be a case of WP:TOOSOON.
Richard3120 (
talk)
17:00, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep Has made the Billboard Hot 100 and appears to have a claim about the dislike count that, on the surface spurious, actually means it's achieved a degree of attention and notoriety. It could also be merged and redirected to his article, however.
KaisaL (
talk)
22:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete: Article about an unremarkable minor-leaguer fails NHOCKEY, and shows no evidence of meeting the GNG. Created by an editor infamous for specious articles, for which he was community banned from new article creation.
Ravenswing 05:26, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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I've read discussion this page is unnotable. Anyways, all sources are mainly passing mentions. He is only known for his successful students but notability is not inherited. Other info is basic and non-essential
ALongStay (
talk)
04:45, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Userfy this article . A recognized pioneer in Judo
[20] He is the subject of a number of independent verifiable articles including "GROWING JUDO
Why? Are you going to go back to your CrazyAces489 account to fix it and re-submit it? I don't think you can keep flipping past more than one account as you please.
ALongStay (
talk)
05:31, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I only came here to give an opinion. This was after you messaged me.
[22] . Your general uncivil behavior is what has gotten you IBAN-ed and blocked. I will not be baited.
173.52.99.208 (
talk)
05:36, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment It is hard to see what his notability is based on. The lede should summarize what that is - but all we have is what high school he attended and that he got a 7th Dan. A long coaching career and being a retired insurance salesman do not confer notability.
Peter Rehse (
talk)
16:14, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete I could find nothing to show that he has the significant independent coverage needed to meet
WP:GNG, nor do I see anything to show he meets
WP:MANOTE. Passing mentions and rank are insufficient to show notability.
Papaursa (
talk)
01:46, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Keep. It does have sources, in both the infobox and the external link. Both show that this person meets
WP:CRIN and as he played in the 1930s, I'd be very impressed if it was an autobiography.
The-Pope (
talk)
02:02, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Speedy keep and improve. What a shamefully lazy AFD. A quick Google search for "sultan abbas cricket" brings up coverage on ESPN, CricketArchive, etc. Please read
WP:BEFORE.
OnionRing (
talk)
13:39, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep appears to have been a player in first-class cricket in India, with 5 or 6 matches played, depending which source you believe. It's not a lot of play at first-class level, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and by our standards, apparently he's notable enough to merit an article.
Rockypedia (
talk)
03:53, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete.
WP:V is the killer argument here: if an article has zero sources even after two weeks of AfD, it is gone. Our core policies require that all articles must be verifiable to readers through the inclusion of references to reliable sources, and this article has none. Sandstein 06:25, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Trivial list of mostly one-shot characters. Even if reformatted into a proper article on the topic, there don't seem to be enough sources to really make a decent article out of it.
TTN (
talk)
00:14, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep: Trying to delete this article again sounds more
Wikipedia:I don't like it rather than deleting cruft and TTN admits he is basing this on the belief that it does not SEEM like there is enough sources even though there likely is. How many sources are enough to keep this article afloat?
Yapool Seijin (
talk)
22:10, 3 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Take a look at the above source links and tell me if you see anything that looks viable. If there's nothing good there, that is usually a very good indication that there are not enough sources to establish a topic as notable. There are obviously exceptions for obscure print sources and other language articles, but there's currently nothing to assert that those exist for this topic.
TTN (
talk)
22:20, 3 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Unfiltered search results are quite worthless for this kind of thing. That the topic is part of a long-running franchise and happens to be mentioned often because of that is not an indicator of notability. Pretty much any article that mentions the series will probably mention these, but that is entirely in the context of their in-universe role. Citing that the Japanese Wikipedia article is full of valuable sources would be a better argument, but unfortunately in this case the Japanese article is also just in the same exact state of disrepair. Honestly, even if there are sources, I think they're going to be limited to the production details of certain costumes and such, as is the nature of such a franchise. Maybe I'm completely wrong and there are an abundance of sources, but giving an unfiltered Google search does not show that.
TTN (
talk)
12:17, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
If that's the case why not divide it up into character list articles? I've seen the Japanese Wikipedia do it and many Kamen Rider and Sentai articles to it, just include the humans. It's a suggestion.
Yapool Seijin (
talk)
23:11, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge. Ultraman was a freak-of-the-week show, so each monster was essentially one episode. Rather than list them all here, this information should be included in episode guides for their respective shows. No need for a separate page. On the other hand, I'm not sure who wants to undertake that daunting task. Maybe the otaku who made this list!
Jergling (
talk)
03:26, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Fancruft implies the interest would apply only to franchise fans, the google link I gave kinda disproved that since there is enough interest in these monsters to have massive amounts of merchandise.
Yapool Seijin (
talk)
04:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Still indiscriminate. As the mom stated, "trivial" and "one-shot", even if this was a list for guest characters on a popular TV show. — Wyliepedia13:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The result was redirect to
Sengoku Basara. The one "keep" opinion does not address the substance of the arguments for deletion, that is, lack of substantial coverage in reliable sources. Whether these requirements are documented in a style guideline or an inclusion guideline does not matter. The other contributors agree that this does not warrant article-level coverage. No clear consensus to outright delete, though, therefore I'm redirecting and it's up to editors to find consensus about whether to merge anything from the history. Sandstein 06:31, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
List of non-notable video game characters is
WP:GAMEGUIDE material and fails
WP:VGSCOPE No. 6: " Standalone lists of video game characters are expected to be written in an out-of-universe style with a focus on their concept, creation, and reception, and cited by independent, secondary sources to verify this information." While there are plenty of news articles that mention that new characters are added to an upcoming game, none give any of the information crucial for a stand-alone list.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK15:32, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep failure to comply with MOS expectations is not a reason for deletion, but rather for cleanup. Citing an MOS in a deletion nomination is explicit acknowledgement that if an article were cleaned up appropriately that the nominator believes it would be encyclopedic.
Jclemens (
talk)
18:08, 23 June 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Jclemens: That you don't agree with me is fine, but that you're suggesting that I actually do believe this to be of encyclopedic nature is inappropriate. I have to ask you not to twist my words or motivations.
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK03:55, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
If you're citing an
MOS in a deletion rationale, then you are asserting that the associated problems are not that it's not encyclopedic, but that it's presented wrong. If you don't believe that it's encyclopedic at all, then you can feel free to strike your MOS-based arguments. This isn't meant as an insult to your motivations, but rather pointing out the contradiction inherent in your argument. See also
WP:UGLY.
Jclemens (
talk)
04:30, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Hi @
Jclemens:, I was on my phone earlier, which is pain when replying. When I say "non-notable" I mean it fails
WP:N. Did I really had to point to that guideline? I did specifically pointed to
WP:GAMEGUIDE, which says what Wikipedia is not.
WP:VGSCOPE starts off with "Below is a list of content that is generally considered beyond the scope of information of Wikipedia articles on video games and related video game topics". If I say that this list of characters is "beyond the scope of information" of WP:VG, how am I saying it can be improved? I don't take it as an insult, I see it as
WP:UNCIVIL behaviour to say that I believe something else that I'm saying. Could you also point to the guideline or essay that says "Citing an MOS in a deletion nomination is explicit acknowledgement that if an article were cleaned up appropriately that the nominator believes it would be encyclopedic"?
soetermans.
↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK10:45, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
You'll note that both the
MOS:VG shortcut and the navigation box on the right of that page include the article guidelines as a "manual of style" issue. In short, there is no way you can legitimately refer to
WP:VGSCOPE in an article deletion discussion, because style guidelines only apply to things that SHOULD be kept at AfD, and failing any style guideline is not cause for deletion, only cleanup. You've now had and acknowledged your opportunity to remove it, so a closing admin can and should disregard your nomination entirely as not arguing for deletion.
Furthermore, you cite
WP:GAMEGUIDE, but show no evidence of having read it and applied it to this specific situation. Character lists and plot elements are not covered in that, but only gameplay matters, if I can oversimplify it a bit. I'm sorry if you feel that me educating you about the shortcoming of your nomination is
WP:UNCIVIL, but I have done nothing but politely point out the inherent contradiction in your own argument. I don't think you're any less of a person or editor because you're wrong, and if you got that impression, then I unreservedly apologize for it. Still, I will not insult your intelligence by presuming that you can't figure out why a manual of style issue is only applicable to material appropriate to be kept in the encyclopedia.
Jclemens (
talk)
14:13, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Sengoku_Basara#Characters. The very little that is sourced can be sufficiently covered in the parent article. These articles should not be split unless warranted by the sources. Please {{ping}} me and others if you find more sources to consider. czar23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete or selectively merge per above. There is nothing to establish the article as its own independent topic, so the parent pages can easily cover the most important aspects.
TTN (
talk)
19:59, 3 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Could you perhaps explain why you think that he meets
WP:AUTHOR? There are four criteria, and in my opinion, none of them is met here. For example, he does not seem to be "regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors". Although he appears to be a member of the Intellectual Property Hall of Fame Academy, he is not an inductee into the so-called IP Hall of Fame as far as I can see. --
Edcolins (
talk)
19:12, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
He meets critera 1 because he and his books have been cited many times in important publications. Many attorneys and other people within the IP field quote him, use his books as references, and write reviews praising his books. He meets criteria 2 through his career and the actual content of his books, which explain how and why companies should leverage their IP assets. He meets 3 because he has five well-regarded books on IP. Point 4 can only be shown through the people who have reviewed his books and the publications that quote and review his books. But at the very least, he meets the
WP:BASIC requirements, if it is an absolute requirement that Authors meet every point on
WP:AUTHOR. I have added citations where Berman has been quoted, where he has written, and where his books have been quoted and reviewed. He is a known figure in the IP world and has contributed a significant body of work to the field. I did not include multipal articles or reviews from the same publications, but I can. HIs website is full of links. Also,
WIPO Magazine doesn't publish anyone, they do require that the authors of its articles have some level of respectability and notability. I truly to believe I have listed many qualifying sources.
Joshmplant (
talk)
I've added two more books that cite Berman as an expert and added a US News and World Report article that quotes him as an industry expert. He doesn't have seminal theories like Einstein, but he is well regarded in the IP field. I have proven that he is cited as an expert in many high-level and reliable publications and books. I hope the other editors will ready my citations and agree that Berman's page is at least means
WP:BASIC and is worthy of not being deleted.
Joshmplant (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
16:49, 6 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your reply and for adding further references. The three references you added
[23] do not appear to discuss the subject (i.e., Mr Berman) in detail. I would say that they constitute -or at least are very close to be- "mentions in passing". --
Edcolins (
talk)
19:32, 6 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I cannot control what GoogleBooks scans, I only had access to the reference pages of the books, or one page where he was quoted. It is hard to determine the length of the mention in this context. The fact he is in these books, quotes in Forbes, WIPO, has 5 books in circulation should be enough to be granted the right to keep the page, even under
WP:BASIC only. I have seen pages with far less information and far fewer citations and way fewer sources.
Joshmplant (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
21:41, 6 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete I agree with both
Edcolins and the nominator - it's promotional material and and as an author, he doesn't at all meet
WP:AUTHOR. He's mentioned in passing in a few articles, but not the focus of any. Not close, in my opinion.
Rockypedia (
talk)
03:58, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Promotional is not my intention, but I have added as many sources as I can, even removing some because they were marked as excessive. He is quoted as an expert in the field in top-level publications and has 5 published books from a top publishing house (
John Wiley & Sons), I am not sure what else I can do. Any guidance is greatly appriciated.
Joshmplant (
talk)
18:27, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The two articles in this disambiguation article have different names - flybuys and Fly Buys. A hatnote at the top of each article is really all that is necessary.
Ollieinc (
talk)
07:41, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep The program in Australia (now known as flybuys) was originally termed Fly Buys, then FlyBuys. The current brand name flybuys has been in use for only four of the 21 years the program has been in operation. Accordingly, use of the term in Australia still varies between these three representations, one of which exactly matches the New Zealand variant, and therefore creates the opportunity for confusion between the Australian and New Zealand programs. As such, I believe the disambiguation, if a little non-standard, is helpful and valid.
Murtoa (
talk)
08:07, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep I'd recommend a hatnote at the top of both articles, and keeping this page alive - it's a term that's close enough to "Flyby" that reducing confusion should be the priority. The disambig page will serve that purpose.
Rockypedia (
talk)
04:01, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete I can find no coverage in reliable secondary sources. In the fullness of time, the subject might become notable. But not now.
David in DC (
talk)
15:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Comment - All these caste name related pages are just of 3 to 4 lines or maximum or paragraph or so. There are also no references available to present the information. If needed for the names to be recorded in the encyclopedia. All such articles can be put under an article something like List of India castes or something like that. KCVelaga☚╣✉╠☛14:28, 1 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete the argument "Indian caste names should be notable per se" is completely arbitrary. Just having a caste name here, without references or any reason to establish notability, is a perfect example of
WP:NOTDIRECTORY. This isn't a directory, of caste names or anything else.
Rockypedia (
talk)
04:04, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Rockypedia: That's actually something that deserves a RfC - just as every secondary school is inherently notable per
WP:NSCHOOL, every village in the world is inherently notable per
WP:GEOLAND, etc. Will to it in spare time, unless you feel like asking this at
WP:INDIA. —
kashmiriTALK11:50, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Well, I'm only speaking in terms of this one article - until there's a Wikipedia policy that states every caste name is inherently notable (is there? I don't know), this article should be deleted. If an RfC results in a directive that every caste name is notable, then of course this can always be recreated.
Rockypedia (
talk)
13:51, 8 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete -
WP:GNG - Subject is not supported by significant reliable sources. I could not find any decent online sources using a Google search. --
Taketa (
talk)
09:31, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete as lacking sources (at least, I cannot find them with search terms given on page), with no prejudice to re-creation if an editor brings sources.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
20:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete Just another Indian name. No sources discussing it and nothing even to indicate that it is a caste. There were ca. 1900 castes recorded in 1901, cf 4635 in the 1990s - people just create them out of thin air for self-interested socio-political reasons. It wouldn't surprise me if they use Wikipedia as a means of validating that process. See
Sanskritisation, for example. -
Sitush (
talk)
14:37, 13 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Yes, only but only 1, and it is to a 1915 book with a bit of a reputation (that book , Punjabi Musalmans) for offering the author's idiosyncratic opinions. Asserting that an ethnic group or clan is notable requires stronger sourcing.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
15:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I have. It doesn't change the fact that there need to be at least some RS (reliable sources) before we can consider a redirect. I do not see such sources for Jandral. ( I searched on Jandral + Punjab) The effective way to argue for a redirect is simply to find sources (preferably scholarly sources, well-regarded news media, or well-respected books). Without such sources, we cannot keep this putative clan/group, even as a redirect.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
16:24, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete as a barely informative and then actually unsourced article is not something we should keep simply because someone wants it like that, we would need a better article overall.
SwisterTwistertalk18:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Comment - All these caste name related pages are just of 3 to 4 lines or maximum or paragraph or so. There are also no references available to present the information. If needed for the names to be recorded in the encyclopedia. All such articles can be put under an article something like List of India castes or something like that.
Delete -
WP:GNG - Subject is not supported by significant reliable sources. I could not find any decent online sources using a Google search. --
Taketa (
talk)
09:33, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete Note, however, that we already have a
Maratha, of which I take this is a variant- or mis-spelling. That article makes this one superfluous, since is somply one of many castes that extended across the subcontinent.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
20:26, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete as this has been a common occurrence where it's completely unsourced and barely and contents, this is not acceptable and thus would be best restarted.
SwisterTwistertalk18:52, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Comment - All these caste name related pages are just of 3 to 4 lines or maximum or paragraph or so. There are also no references available to present the information. If needed for the names to be recorded in the encyclopedia. All such articles can be put under an article something like List of India castes or something like that.
That's what called a stub: a few lines, little or no references, but notable enough to warrant inclusion. Disagree as to lists - items on such lists should be notable (more details at
WP:CSC) and have own articles wherever possible. —
kashmiriTALK15:16, 2 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete -
WP:GNG - Subject is not supported by significant reliable sources. I could not find any decent online sources using a Google search. --
Taketa (
talk)
09:33, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete The Bhidwal are mentioned as a group in an 1892 book "A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab" author: Rose. And in a handful of other 19th century books, search in search on Bhidwal + Punjab here:
[24]. They do not, however, turn up in modern sources, making me suspect that either the ethnonym Bhidwal has gone out of use, or that or the identity has fallen away. Badduwal is a place (village?) in the Punjab, and Bidwal is a subcontinent surname. These, things, however, do not add up to notability.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
20:57, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Non-notable 2016 remake of a semi-notable 2008 remake of a notable 2001 film. I can't find any confirmation online that it's even been released yet, and I can find no significant coverage of this new 2016 version online in
WP:Reliable sources.
OnionRing (
talk)
13:27, 20 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete for a short while. Available sourcing shows the earlier De Taali (2008 film) as notable enough for Wkipedia. Further digging reveals that the current film's music appears to have been released,
[25] and lead me to believe this latest film actually released
June 17 2016, there is still not enough available "YET" to show this as meeting
WP:NF. As it has only recently released, we can revisit the topic and allow it a return if and/or when it gains enough sourcing. For now, it's
TOO SOON. Schmidt, Michael Q.06:31, 21 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Non notable tv serial. There are numerous tv serials broadcast in indian tv like this. This is not a special one. Also there is no reliable secondary source for notability.
Mar11 (
talk)
16:09, 20 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep If
Star Jalsha is indeed the leading or a major Indian Bengali-language cable channel, as its article states, it meets
WP:TVSHOW. India is a country of several major language groups. We're not going to penalize the show (or the channel) for not attracting, say, Hindi viewers for a Bengali programme.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
16:59, 21 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Draft instead at best because this is still unsourced and this is actually a common occuence with these articles, unsourced and it often seems the author will not improve it themselves or not thoroughly. Draft for these improvements and then examine afterwards.
SwisterTwistertalk18:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Move to draft - Poor quality at best. This series has potential important to Wikipedians, but this article needs improvements.
George Ho (
talk)
20:49, 18 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The result was TNT delete, because of issues such as verifiability and concerns about hoaxing. As with any other TNT-deleted page about an obviously notable subject, creation of a new page about Bertha is welcome.
Nyttend (
talk)
14:04, 17 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Created by user as part of a series of questionable edits creating non-existent places in Illinois and Florida. The USGS link actually takes you to the page on
Slavia, Florida, a real place, with no mention of Bertha.
Smartyllama (
talk)
17:05, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Even with the GNIS information fixed, nothing beyond the first paragraph is verifiable. Aside from there being a U6 unincorporated community at that location, the article is still substantially a hoax.
• Gene93k (
talk)
10:10, 3 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete, it is a USGS populated place listed in GNIS, but all that means is it was a dot on a map. The location has no boundary. There is no CDP with that name and there is no mention of Bertha on the county website. The map boundaries (
File:BerthaFlorida.png) that were added for it appear to be completely made up. The basemap, that the uploader copied but neglected to credit, (
c:File:Seminole County Florida Incorporated and Unincorporated Areas.svg) was based on Census maps and shows that area as unincorporated. Namesake item is uncited for a person that lived 150 miles away from this location. --
Dual Freq (
talk)
22:15, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Comment. Fullersburg is a real populated place according to GNIS (
1771758) but the citation was wrong. Unlike other articles by the same creator, the coordinates are correct and the USGS says the the forest mentioned is nearby. The postal info is dubious however. USGS does not call this an independent U6 settlement.
• Gene93k (
talk)
19:42, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep: This is, so far, the only
Bnnnperdue (
talk·contribs) article creation I've seen that probably meets
WP:GNG. (See the chaos in all the similar nominations at
User talk:Bnnnperdue and
User:Closeapple/issues/User:Bnnnperdue.) Not only are there several sources available (assuming they're not all copying each other), but it's difficult to determine an appropriate parent article to merge to, because different soruces say different things — its history appears to be involved in the origin of both
Hinsdale and
Oak Brook. So it should probably be its own article unless shown otherwise. The first part of
http://www.dupagehistory.org/dupage_roots/Hinsdale_11.htm (same page TheCatalyst31 mentioned above) gives a history of Fullerburg, but that page says "Interest has spread to Oak Brook where old Fullersburg stood. An effort is underway to create an Historical Gateway linking the two towns, including Graue Mill, the Ben Fuller house and old St. John's Church." The 1874 subdivision plat map on that page doesn't match the names currently in use on
DuPage County GIS Parcel Viewer: For example, parts of what are "Original Plat of Hinsdale" on the 1874 map is in the subdivision "Town of Fullersburgh" (with an "h") on the GIS, and parts of what are in the subdivision "Plat of Hinsdale" on modern GIS is shown as "W. Robbins" on the 1874 map.
"Ben Fuller Farmhouse" on the Salt Creek Greenway Association website describes the "old Fullersburg" as being at "the present day intersection of Ogden Avenue and York Road", and "By 1860, Fullersburg had become one of the leading communities of DuPage County. Its buildings included 15 to 20 houses, two hotels, three taverns, a post office, a blacksmith shop, a school, a cemetery and a grist mill." There was a Fullerburg Historic Society as of last year: The website
http://www.fullersburg.org/ is down, but the society's presentation announcements have been in the paper: see for example
Daily Herald in September 2015. --
Closeapple (
talk)
04:28, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
I just rewrote the entire article and removed the remaining unreliable claims from the infobox. Also, when I noticed
Graue Mill was part of Fullersburg, I just realized that I'd encountered this place name before: A year and a half ago I found a bunch of historic images on Commons that were said to be of Fullersburg, and put them in
Commons:Category:Fullersburg, Illinois. Meeting
WP:GNG looks pretty sure at this point. --
Closeapple (
talk)
08:30, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep I concur with Closeapple. There's enough information out there to pass
WP:GNG. It certainly did exist, and we have credible sources to assert so. A geographic feature does not have to exist now to be notable, and the area in which this place existed isn't easily identifiable with one distinct community now, thus a merge is inappropriate. --
Hammersoft (
talk)
15:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete: I agree. Tragic early death but no indication of notability. I put the notability tag to the article but forgot to follow up with the AFD.
Quis separabit?14:19, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep pending more information - it would be worth digging in the timeline of women joining the U.S. Army to establish just how early/pioneering she was. "First woman to do X" is notable for being the one to break the glass ceiling. How close was she to the first woman paratrooper I wonder?
MurielMary (
talk)
10:42, 6 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Able to answer that myself quite quickly! First woman to graduate from the Basic Airborne was Rita Johnson in Dec 1973. Would like to know how many women there were between Johnson and Tabor. Will continue to investigate.
MurielMary (
talk)
10:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing
Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed
Wikipedia:Notability (biographies) requirement. It was recreated with the new creator (I am not sure if they were also the original article creator, but they are
WP:SPA in either case) noting on article's talk page that the sourcing is improved. I can't compare it directly to the deleted version, but the new sourcing is not sufficient and very much fails policies cited above as well as
WP:CREATIVE. This is essentially a cv with primary references; no source seems to discuss the subject more then in passing, and even in passing mentions are simple film credits or such. Majority of references fail to mention him at all, at least
one is written by the subject... In the end, it is worth remembering not all filmmakers are encyclopedic, and this article very much proves the point. Pinging participants of the first AfD:
User:Duffbeerforme,
User:Staszek Lem,
User:SwisterTwister and
User:AKS.9955. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here12:13, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
delete I double-checked the refs and not a single one neither speaks of notability nor covers the person in depth, and none of them is an independent reliable source per wikipedia policies.
Staszek Lem (
talk)
17:55, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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No evidence of any significant notability. One amongst many for Nigerian broadcasting awards and the rest of the refs tell us he has been married 6 years and has one child. Nothing substantial that conveys any notability. The lack of in-line refs make this more difficult top judge but a review of all the external refs produced nothing of great merit. VelellaVelella Talk 15:48, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Delete - According to listing on IMDb has only one significant role in Just Add Magic and guest or co-starring roles in other series.
WP:NACTOR requires "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions" which she does not have.
WP:GNG, which could override NACTOR, requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" and all I can find in a basic search is passing mentions in articles about the shows she is in and interviews mostly talking about her characters. I couldn't find anything that had significant coverage of her as a person. I'd say
WP:TOOSOON but probably worth giving it some time to see if GNG references can be found.
Geraldo Perez (
talk)
03:20, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep As much as I am unimpressed with what we have, I think she passes the notability guidelines for actresses. I have found sources that cover her in ways that suggest that her role in Just Add Magic is so important and defining that she passes the notability threshold just on that. True, they are vacuous and hard to read if you hate vacuous writing, but she does get coverage. In 2016 a 36-minute long work entitled Wordplay was released, where she appears to have had the main role, or at least is listed first on the IMDb entry on it. We lack an article on the work, but that does not mean it is not enough to put her over the top. There is also the film Little Savages released earlier this year. We appear not to have an article on it, but I have found reviews, and Miller was in a role that got her listed on a cast list that had a total of 7 people.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
03:36, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
WP:NACTOR says "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." (emphasis mine) Even if you are claiming she passes the former (and I don't agree – Just Add Magic is really her only "significant" role, and even there she's a co-lead...), I don't think you can really say they she passes on the latter (e.g. "notable films, television shows") for the very reasons you outline. More to the point, there's the larger
WP:GNG issue – she simply has had no significant independent coverage. --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
04:53, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
My argument is that Just Add Magic and Little Savages are enough to establish multiple, significant roles. We do not need an article for something to be notable, Little Savages is notable, we just lack an article, and here role is clearly "significant" in that and in Just Add Water.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
19:26, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
On what level is Little Savages notable? There are literally zero reviews of it at Rotten Tomatoes. It has gone utterly unnoted. --
Nat Gertler (
talk)
19:47, 10 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment Thanks Everyone for your input. I'm really wanting to keep this person on Wikipedia, and I'm not close to her at all. I am a Neutral user trying to help this page get on Wikipedia with No Problems. If there is a way you could help me, I would really appreciate it. Once again, I really appreciate the feedback given above. Thanks!
Dannywestmusic (
talk)
06:07, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Like Dannywestmusic, I'm one who would want her to have an article in Wikipedia. I know she has been around the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon circuit in the last few years ... Austin & Ally, Sam & Cat, and Nicky, Ricky, Dicky & Dawn. Unfortunately, she had minor roles in all those, and other shows and films she has been in have not shown a significant presence. Except for Just Add Magic, but that is only one significant role and it fails WP:NACTOR. And right now, gauging from what I'm seeing in Google searches, there is little, if any independent, significant coverage in reliable sources, so general notability is out, too. While I could also go with the TOOSOON argument, she has been in that state by Wikipedia standards for a few years now. She definitely needs a stand-out significant role on TV or in a film if she is going to get past that.
MPFitz1968 (
talk)
06:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Weak delete - I have no problem saying that her role in Just Add Magic qualifies as one of the multiple roles needed under
WP:NACTOR, but I cannot scrape up the second one. Her role in Little Savages is not inconsequential - she gets included in the short cast list on Amazon, her character appears in and is named in the trailer - the film itself is not notable. An apparent direct-to-video release (no MPAA rating), the film not only has no Wikipedia page, it has
zero reviews at Rotten Tomatoes . It is unnoted and thus unnotable. I would not be surprised if this person crossed that notability horizon in not too long, and would certainly have no objection to the page being userfied. --
Nat Gertler (
talk)
15:39, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Yeah, I would have suggested Draftifying if there was likely to be more to the article. But the "proper" article is likely to be a two-sentence stub (with the Filmography table) which probably isn't worth keeping even as a Draft... --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
15:58, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Deleted at AfD in 2009 as a totally non notable concept mentioned in a single source. Current article was created in 2011 and has been tagged for notability since shortly after creation. Still no indication of notability other than the publication in which the term was coined. Since current article has existed since 2011, obviously CSD G4 is off the table.
Safiel (
talk)
17:14, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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SNOW delete This clearly is a re-creation of the
previously deleted article on the the Vedic Institute of Canada, and it suffers from the exact same deficiencies: absolutely zero sources to establish the notability of the group and garbled content in broken English that is just barely unintelligible enough to demonstrate that it is a blatantly promotional sales pitch for the business, utterly lacking is encyclopedic information or tone. Two of the four sources provided are non-RS webpages attached to the business and the other two have absolutely no relation to the topic of this article.
The authors of this article clearly hoped that they could copy and paste their previously deleted advert article and then fly it under the radar by sticking two actual notable terms ("vedic" and "ashram") together to create a notable-sounding topic. But this article is clearly not about either Vedic traditions broadly, nor about ashrams or monasticism, as is clear by the second line of the lead through every other word of the article, which is essentially a replication of a business webpage, violating numerous content policies. This one is a no-brainer, and at this point it may be necessary to start looking at the behaviour of the authors of this content, who clearly either do not understand or do not care to respect Wikipedia's policies regarding promotional materials and notability requirements.
Snowlet's rap22:23, 9 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Non notable and promotional. Regional firm/ The "awards" are merely "Best company to work for", a type of award which is entirely promotional, based on no clear criteria. DGG (
talk )
04:57, 23 June 2016 (UTC)reply
DeleteWP:CORP includes this, which is often forgotten: "Evidence of significant coverage by international or national, or at least regional, media is a strong indication of notability. On the other hand, attention solely from local (as in - with a circulation limited to a single city or metropolitan area) media, or media of limited interest and circulation (such as trade journals), is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, statewide, provincial, national, or international source is necessary." For a local-only company to meet WP:CORP something extraordinary has to be visible. I'm sure it's a perfectly good company, but it is not in any way encyclopedic.
LaMona (
talk)
00:03, 6 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete:A
WP:SPA article on a firm. Placing in a newsaper's "Best Companies to Work For" list may perhaps be worth noting within an article, but is not itself evidence of
notability. Nor are my searches showing anything substantial: local coverage of routine announcements, planning disputes, an OFT list in 2008, etc.
AllyD (
talk)
13:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Non-notable recording artist. Zero mentions in any reliable source. Appears to be a vanity or promotional page for an unknown artist.
Rockypedia (
talk)
02:00, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete: Fails
WP:GNG. Can't find any coverage in reliable sources. Heck, AFAICT the record company he's supposedly signed to doesn't even exist.
Kolbasz (
talk)
17:55, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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This article has been redirected several times to
MWA World Heavyweight Championship and reverted back, so I thought I'd bring it here for additional discussion and consensus. Apparently the MWA article is about the Kansas City version, which was different. Local world titles for the same organization seems ridiculous to me, but the point is that this article has no significant independent coverage. I don't really care whether this article is deleted or redirected, but there's nothing to show this should have its own article.
Mdtemp (
talk)
15:53, 21 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Redirect Since the article has no significant independent coverage, it fails to meet
WP:GNG. A redirect seems less harsh than outright deletion.
Papaursa (
talk)
15:40, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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This has been around for many years but there are still no independent sources. It is a drying agent containing Gypsum. Nothing notable there and nothing notable in this article. Fails
WP:GNGVelellaVelella Talk 15:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Redirect. Delete No independent sources that show any notability. I generally consider redirects with brand names like this, but I don't really see a obviously fitting article to redirect to either. DMacks pointed out below that it is mentioned (unsourced) at
Calcium sulfate#Other uses, so that's probably the best place for now. It technically should redirect to [Anhydrite] based on the definition, but I'm fine if it redirects to at least one of the two articles.
Kingofaces43 (
talk)
20:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)reply
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Comment This isn't the same place as the hoax article; that article was about a supposed city of 5,000 in
Adams County, while this article is about a neighborhood of
Minot (in
Ward County) that has sources verifying its existence. The notability of the neighborhood is pretty borderline, but it is a real place.
TheCatalyst31Reaction•
Creation12:34, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep - As mentioned in a previous debate, this is a real inhabited place, not a hoax creation from thin air, thus the case for deletion being made falls flat. We have the lowest of possible bars to keeping articles on populated places; if a case is to be made that this neighborhood is not notable due to small size and artificial contrivance, that case needs to be actually made and opinions can be rendered at that time. As to the deletion rationale here, I believe that argument is not well taken.
Carrite (
talk)
17:11, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Fair enough. Consider this withdrawn per above comments, since it appears this place is legit. Can an admin close this, please?
Smartyllama (
talk)
22:30, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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Article is pure commercial
spam that just promotes the medical services and products of one company. All refs cited are to the company and any potentially useful text is not referenced. The article has been justifiably tagged as having been the product of
WP:COI.
Ahunt (
talk)
11:58, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete an obvious piece of COI work, but (as is said above), if independent and significant sources are found later for what appears to be pin-prick blood testing, then OK with recreation. Kudos to
M. A. Bruhn for bringing this article to a good state. Changing to Keep. Pinging @
RexxS and
Doc James:HappyValleyEditor (
talk)
20:01, 30 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep: AfD is explicitly for deleting articles that cannot be improved through editing. This is a common enough point of care assay, with a well described history, and which is easy to find discussed by independent sources. I've gone ahead and deleted the medmira references, included new sources, and rewritten most of the article; as it is now there should be no more objections to keeping it.
M. A. Bruhn (
talk)
00:19, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Comment: That is great work, it looks a lot better now. Based on these improvements I now am in favour of keep. -
Ahunt (
talk)
01:58, 4 July 2016 (UTC)reply
Keep Bravo to M. A. Bruhn. There may be some ambiguity remaining in that non-clinical "flow-through assays" also exist (I added a MEDRS-compliant source discussing some), but that's a minor concern. Article as it stands approximately meets
WP:MEDRS, with clinically relevant information cited to respected recent reviews.
FourViolas (
talk)
06:36, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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You would have thought an orchestra with such an illustrious title would be an easy article to improve, but that turns out not to be the case. In fact, I came up with a complete blank when searching for truly independent sources for the orchestra aside from a few passing mentions in some Portuguese news pieces (and even then I'm not sure as to what quality of news that is), and I have to wave a white flag and declare it "unrepairable".
Ritchie333(talk)(cont)12:51, 22 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Delete I too found some scattered articles in Portuguese that mentioned this orchestra, but this orchestra was not the focus of any of them. Without any sources to establish reliability, I also recommend a delete.
Rockypedia (
talk)
03:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC)reply
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