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Keep. I can understand the nominator's point of view, but to me the list is not indiscriminate because the relationship to
road safety seems evident when you look at the widespread use of the term
by putting it into a news search engine. As for trivial, I disagree there, too –
just click on "What links here" to see how many other articles refer the reader to this page. (Many other editors have taken the time to link to it.) Where the present article falls down is its lack of
WP:Reliable sources. The term is also used in at least one foreign language –
Spanish. The article should be improved by removing
WP:Original research and finding good sources, but it should be retained.
BeenAroundAWhile (
talk)
00:48, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
What makes each individual dead man's curve independently notable, though? We have a curve residents of my hometown of
Haines City, Florida we call "Dead Man's Curve", but it's not notable outside our town. TrueCRaysball | #RaysUp
I did a count of the references given on the curves currently listed: Eleven are referenced only with a link to google maps; ten have references to other sources; and eight have no references given. I'd consider a reference/link to a google map to be
WP:OR as far as 'naming' a curve with this moniker. So that means only a third of the list is sourced. If we remove the original research, the list is substantially smaller. You're okay with that and still vote as a keep? -
¢Spender1983 (
talk)
22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Bearian, Can you help me out? Are there specific examples of "entire books written on notable dead men's curves" that you can give? I searched amazon and google books and I'm not finding any. (BTW, please don't point to books about the Jan and Dean song and say they are entirely about the curve in the road.) -
¢Spender1983 (
talk)
22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Regarding the one in Marquette County, Michigan, that Dead Man's Curve is the subject of its own local historical marker, and it's the site of the first state highway centerline in the US, as noted by the Michigan Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration.
Kulsea, Bill; Shawver, Tom (1980). Making Michigan Move: A History of Michigan Highways and the Michigan Department of Transportation. Lansing: Michigan Department of Transportation. p. 10.
Federal Highway Administration (1977). America's Highways, 1776–1976: A History of the Federal-Aid Program. Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office. p. 127.
OCLC3280344.
Rogers, Frank F. (1922). Biennial Report of the State Highway Commissioner for the Fiscal Years ending June 30, 1921, and June 30, 1922 (9th ed.). Lansing, MI: Fort Wayne Printing. p. 6, plate I.
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Is this really what Wikipedia is for?
WP:NOT says we're not just for indiscriminate blobs of information. That someone is both a billionaire (in US dollars...?) and a Christian doesn't tell you much. Their religion might be completely nominal and irrelevant to their business and wealth, or it may have an important role in their business life. Seems a strange combination. —
Tom Morris (
talk)
23:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Regardless of whether "Christian billionaires" makes sense as a hybrid- or sub-categorization (from either perspective, of subcategorizing billionaires by religion or subcategorizing Christians by status or accomplishment), let's not make assumptions about other lists just because we're not familiar with a topic. See
Jewish feminism,
Category:Jewish feminism, and
Category:Jewish feminists (so hardly "random"). postdlf (talk)
19:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Reply. My examples are those who actively support Christianity, not those who are just nominally Christian. The criterion could be made more restrictive. That being said, upon further consideration, I'm going to add another "weak" to my lvote.
Clarityfiend (
talk)
02:48, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Random list. Creator said those who "actively support Christianity" are only on the list and mentions "devout" alot. How are we to judge that? Most people would consider Rockefeller Christian in name only. Currently there are over 2,000 living billionaires, with 1,500 coming from predominately Christian nations. Well, after the Chinese stock market crash, cut the amount of Chinese billionaires by 50%.
Bgwhite (
talk)
04:31, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete This list if kept should include every person who was/is Christian who has ever been worth over 1 billion. That would just make the list unruly.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
16:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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In doubt if this game is notable enough for inclusion. A quick check reveals 16k Google hits (effectively 172), a lot of them related. The Bannertalk22:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Note - The article creator is currently indef blocked, and actively socking and block evading. Its not a speedy delete, since he made it before he was indef blocked, but Admin/closer, please be wary of any
WP:SPAs. They could be socks. Thanks.
Sergecross73msg me12:46, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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I don't think this article meets
WP:BIO: the subject doesn't seem sufficiently notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia, beyond involvement in low-profile charities. From the string of edits from a single account, I'd also suggest possible self-promotion
WP:PROMOTION.
Wikiminaj123 (
talk)
21:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Redirect toStudentVoice, though I do not think that is a particularly significant organisation either. This membership of a European organisation would seem to be taking part in the equivalent international organisation.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:09, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - I would have said redirect as per
Peterkingiron, but after researching the
StudentVoice, I actually nominated that article for AfD, since I could only find a single independent source about that organization. I can't see redirecting to an article that may get deleted.
Onel5969TT me17:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete the lot .... Unbelievably like the nom I can't actually describe any of this other than pure bollocks!, This could all be shoved in to a "List of episode" type format which would be far more informative than this crap. –
Davey2010Talk01:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- This is a much loved children's cartoon. We have a lot of lists of episodes in WP, I am not sure why this is different from other episode lists. Why single this one out? I do not think it is as "unsourced" as claimed: there is clearly an implied source, from watching it on TV or DVD.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:50, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It's mostly OR anyway. Have you ever seen Pingu? If yes, you would know that the episodes can not be described in such a manner as in this list. It's a stop-motion animation without discernable speech, inviting the children to watch and find out what it means, to train their imagination. To have one particular detailed interpretation is counterproductive, and is against Wikipedia rules (no OR).
Kraxler (
talk)
18:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep. Lackluster little stub of an article, but there seems to be a lot written on the topic. A
historical overview from Mother Jones. One of the topics discussed in a Human Communications Researchpaper on communication in politics. The Atlantic's
take on the topic is firmly tongue-in-cheek, but it points to older print sources that maybe productive. Other sources discuss its use in more metaphorical terms. Broadly, I think there's an article to be had here, even if we don't have it here yet.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
21:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. It is a stub and definitely needs expansion to move beyond the dictionary definition. But expansion is possible, so let's not discourage it just yet. →
Michael JⓉⒸⓂ23:23, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Per
WP:NOTNEWSWP:NOTMEMORIAL This warrants a full 7 day discussion. Just because some people have an personal attachment to this story does not give it encyclopedic merit. Wikipedia is not a pop culture blog. It is meant to be a repository of the worlds knowledge. There are many things individual people may care about and want included but we must adhere to a strict standard and this random lion who had no article or notability before he was killed does not make the cut. It's time to rid Wikipedia of all these excess articles. While the article is well written the subject does not meet the criteria for inclusion therefore this article does not belong on here. I don't care about how much news coverage it has received the media makes whatever it wants to be important no matter how irrelevant it is. This lion will soon be forgotten and replaced with the next story of the week. On many AFD's whose subject clearly and definitively does not warrant an article I see fanboys/girls of the subject making up random excuses or citing reasons that do not meet Wikipedias guidelines for it to stay. Enough is enough and we must defend Wikipedias integrity.I believe there are many who will agree with me and ask that this be allowed to run the full 7 days and see how many delete votes there are and the strength of the arguments made in the keep votes.
Comet1440 (
talk)
20:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
keep and rename back to
Killing of Cecil the lion - that is what all of the coverage is about, it was renamed without consensus. The killing has led to significant, non-ephemeral, real world actions - from changing of policies about shipping trophy carcasses to legislation in Zimbabwe as well as discussions and analysis of the online mob behavior.--
TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom20:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep under either name. The entire event continues to have repercussions beyond the news cycle, and has been a signal event in discussions of trophy hunting, conservation, and poaching. It would be remarkable that someone seeking reference on this event of global interest were unable to find mention of it on Wikipedia. --
Tenebrae (
talk)
20:38, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I might also mention that the nominator's essaying and
soapboxing seems to have little to do with Wikipedia and more to do with his emotions toward "the media". He says, "I don't care about how much news coverage it has received the media makes whatever it wants to be important no matter how irrelevant it is." He also appears to believe he can read the future when he says, "This lion will soon be forgotten and replaced with the next story of the week." A discussion over whether an article belongs on Wikipedia is fine, but trying to use such discussion
to push one's feelings about "the media" is not really valid. --
Tenebrae (
talk)
20:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep The event has proved to be more than just a one day-phenomenon, and has dominated its specific segment of the news (eco/animals) for the past week, coming onto the public from all different angles (human interest, but also politics and even legal aspects concerning hunting and extradition). In only a week's time, 14 different articles have been published on the main Belgian (Belgium!) news site about the killing of Cecil. If this event doesn't deserve a Wikipedia page, then the lines are blurred spectacularly as to what does.
L E X commons (
talk)
20:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep & rename. TRPOD makes valid points although I see little in the article about "online mob behavior". I think it is way too early for social analysts to assess the impact of the news of the killing. My question is, is having three deletion discussions in less than a week a record?
LizRead!Talk!20:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep or rename, don't care. I argued in the last AfD for the old name, but sources keep asserting the notability of the lion so the current title seems apt enough. But this AfD is
pointy and has about a
snowball's chance in hell. Nominator appears to misunderstand what AfD is... it's not a vote and it's not a place to air grievances. Her insistence of keeping it open for 7 days demonstrates this well.
EvergreenFir(talk) Please {{
re}}
20:54, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Snow Keep as current name. The lion seems famous before his death. The death makes him more notable. The international reaction is immense, with airlines possibly changing their cargo and flight rules as a result. This is the third AfD in a week, which is now disruptive. Suggest speedy close, along with a moratorium on new AfDs on this article for six months or a year.
Martin45121:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Misplaced nomination — was placed at MfD by
User:Jobava-ro, who says that "this describes technology that doesn't exist or is original research". I am neutral unless I comment below.
Raymie (
t •
c)
19:57, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. A quick look shows about 800 hits for the concept in Google Scholar, including two papers cited over 200 times. However the actual article seems to describe one specific application; the concept has also been responsible for most of the edits of
User:Nulled in 2015. The concept may merit an article—I am not an expert in the subject–but in its current state the article does not seem appropriate.
Raymie (
t •
c)
20:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. It's possible, even probable, to write an article under this title. What we currently have here is not that article. Simply put, the current content is either implausible or incomprehensible; it claims to describe a system wherein electrolysis occurs by passing current through nonconductive pure water. One source cited is absolutely a reliable source. Despite not being cited correctly, it is a paper in the Journal of Power Sources. The other scholarly article, in the Serbian-published International Journal of Electrochemical Science is probably marginally acceptable also. However, neither of these articles is about low temperature electrolysis. Neither of them discusses the apparatus described in this article whatsoever. And, frankly, neither of them support the claims they are being used to cite here.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
20:40, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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After I tidied the article up I planned on sourcing it but bar little mentions I can't find anything at all, (
The article looked like this before I tidied it up), Non notable actress, Fails NACTOR & GNG, I would say she's mostly remembered for Emmerdale and Waterloo Road so could be redirected to either one of those if preferred. –
Davey2010Talk19:48, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete for now - Emmerdale, Waterloo Road and Bernard's Watch are all good targets but I think it's best to delete for now (especially if BLP issues occur later). IMDb and my searches (the best
here) show nothing good.
SwisterTwistertalk06:25, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Weak delete I added a few references, but they're only mentions, although she got a few one-line positive reviews. Needed are multiple in-depth accounts to meet the
WP:GNG.--
Tomwsulcer (
talk)
22:35, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep I do hate seeing an article that has a bit of stuff on it getting deleted, can we over-time work to improve this if it's kept?
CDRL102 (
talk)
00:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
CDRL102 - I would d honestly rather see it kept but so far there's only mentions and to be fair she's been in alot of tv shows so at this point she should have alot more than just mentions, Had this been a new actor I wouldn't of even nominated it but at the end of the day if there's no notability now then there won't ever be IMHO. –
Davey2010Talk00:24, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I just think, if you go through many pages of past actors/actresses of soaps/drama series like WLR, Tracy Beaker, Emmerdale etc, you would find quite the same pages. For example,
Holly Kenny from WLR, or
Nicola Reynolds from Tracy Beaker etc and the list could go on really. I don't think - if there's backlog - deleting pages like this that have something to it is right, focusing on pages that are blatantly pointless would be more resourceful.
CDRL102 (
talk)
11:08, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - There is some coverage, but mostly in local regional sources (which in and of itself is not a bad thing), but none are substantial. And that's the sticking point. Davey2010's comment to CDRL102 sums it up pretty well, I agree that it's not a case of
WP:TOOSOON.
Onel5969TT me17:23, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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This is a really bad article, though thankfully less bad after some of the worst was pruned. The subject appears to be a bit of a blowhard, that's not the problem: the article entirely fails to establish actual notability by reference to non-trivial coverage in reliable independent sources. Guy (
Help!)
17:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The strongest source is a profile in
The Epoch Times. Not a major paper and most of the article is about the guy's relationship with his (unusually distinguished) ancestors. His notability has to rest on his books of military history, published with Howell Press
[18] which may be a small, vanity imprint, anybody know for sure? What I can say is that I can't find any reviews of the listed books, or persuasive sources on the man or on his books.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
18:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
No comment on the article, but Howell Press was a small military history publisher in Charlottesville, VA in the late 80s and 90s. I have no evidence that it was a vanity house.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
20:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep At least 3 of the books are by significant social academic publishers: IOS, St.Martins, Sage, and at least one Alliance of enemies by a significant general publisher, Thomas Dunne, , --and that book has over 500 library holdings. The writing section needs trimming to just the books. Adnd of course we need to find reviews.— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
DGG (
talk •
contribs)
But can you find any sources about the subject? Teasing biographies out of sources that are not themselves biographical is a bit of a minefield. Guy (
Help!)
08:32, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The article subject is an author, so
WP:AUTHOR applies. Any of the 4 tests there would indicate notability. 1) "Important figure" - no indication of that. 2) Originated "significant new concept" - no. 3) "Well-known work" - no. 4) "Significant monument" - no. The "reviews" of his cookbook are rather weak. The publisher sent a review copy to the Secretary of Defense and a standard response came back.
[19]John Nagle (
talk)
21:24, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Tagged for notability since 2013. Only claim to fame in the article is being "located near to other important higher education facilities". CNRS laboratories are very often created only temporarily (they have a 5-year mandate which usually can be extended only twice). More importantly, a Google search and a Google news search turn up what may be expected: articles published by lab members listing the lab as their affiliation and a handful of newspaper articles about accomplishments of lab members mentioning the lab in passing, but no in-depth coverage of the lab itself. Unless significant independent sources can be found elsewhere: Delete.
Randykitty (
talk)
15:29, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: (COI disclosure: I did my Ph.D there in 2005–2008) This is a Carnot Institute and AFAIK the largest CNRS (public research) lab in France, so even though the current version of the article isn't more than a stub, it seems to me that we can come up with enough sourceable content for an article. I still have a few contacts there so I'm going to reach out to them to see if they can help me gather some materials and references.
guillom21:27, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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I'm Still gathering information. Buddylist was featured on Examiner but the Author got deleted along with all their articles. Please give it a chance. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Tommy62702 (
talk •
contribs)
14:02, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Does not meet
WP:GNG in its current state. Perhaps it could be userfied in a sandbox or draft space but I am not finding enough
WP:SECONDARY sourcing to think that this could be upgraded to an article that meets WikiP's guidelines. BTW the addition of 'Page Protection" tags by the article creator when no admin had protected the page was not a good idea.
MarnetteD|
Talk16:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Press releases are considered primary sources per
WP:NEWSPRIMARY and cannot be used to establish notability. Blogs should only be used when written by a recognised authority in the field, per
WP:BLOGS, but your "High Pr4 Blog Article" is the one I mentioned in the AfD nomination as being a simple reprint of the site's own description of itself. --
McGeddon (
talk)
12:39, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Well it looks like the author used Snips from Buddylist Wiki page. I'm not seeing how you are saying It is copied when they wouldn't even have a article unless Buddylist already existed to write about. Nomination for afd seems invalid. added by
Tommy62702 (
talk •
contribs)
13:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
If the blog entry was copypasted from Buddylist's own site and wasn't even written by the blogger whose name was in the byline, then it plainly fails
WP:BLOGS. You need to find some sources which aren't just re-using text provided by Buddylist. --
McGeddon (
talk)
18:19, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Seems like you are not trying to help this article more or less you are trying to make it fade away for some reason. According to Wiki's guide lines you suppose to help articles become better if it is legit. Guidelines also state minimal requirements is you have to at lease have 1 Google news archive which Buddylist does have. I am very new to Wiki and not 100% familiar with it yet, but If you have some kind of knowledge to make this article better then you should help improve it rather than keep trying to get it deleted. Couldn't some one make mentions on the Springfield Illinois page, or Social Networking Page, etc... I'm not sure how this all works and was hoping there would be some informative and helpful people. I am asking for help on this. I originally started this as a suggestion. I haven't had any help on this the whole entire time and I think for some one that never made a Wiki page before I am doing good and some one should help out with this. added by
Tommy62702 (
talk •
contribs)
13:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Name something concrete that will make this solid. I will make it happen. I'm not clearly understanding this secondary sources thing. Do you need this in news papers, Magazines, Bill boards, other bloggers? Please tell me something I can do to make this article be approved by Wiki. added by
Tommy62702 (
talk •
contribs)
14:03, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
As the AfD nomination says, the article does not currently meet
WP:GNG. Click that link and it will tell you what level of sourcing the article requires in order to remain on Wikipedia.
I've tried to help this article by looking for sources myself, but the only news coverage I've been able to find is unusable press releases, and unrelated articles which use the word "buddylist" to mean "list of buddies" when talking about other services (Windows Live appears to have a feature called a "buddylist"). I can't see that it meets
WP:GNG. --
McGeddon (
talk)
19:41, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete, it's more or less a speedy deletion candidate as an advertisement for a website that hasn't been noticed (yet).
Sionk (
talk)
22:56, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
No he is nominating for a speedy deletion for no reason. How is the History of Buddylist Advertising. If that was the case then all wiki's would get deleted. There is no promotion on it. Why would you encourage his behavior?
24.12.27.232 (
talk·contribs)
I hope the owner of Buddylist will see's this and chime in. I don't get why every post on here is something negative. You guys must have some really awesome lives. JK If you can't say anything nice you shouldn't say anything at all. You guys are bullies. Instead of helping some one you just trash everything they do.
24.12.27.232 (
talk·contribs) —
24.12.27.232 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic.
Sionk did not nominate it for speedy deletion. In stead S said it was a candidate for speedy deletion. That is not the same thing. BTW your comments on the editors who have posted here is in violation of
WP:NPA and is not helping your case.
MarnetteD|
Talk03:17, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I thank every one that tried to help the Wiki page for my company. They are not being bullies they just have guide lines and seem very strict about it which is understandable for it being a Online Encyclopedia. Do not be mad at the editors they are just doing there duties. It looks great Tommy but it still does need a lot more things added and more citations would make it work out a lot better. I appreciate every ones help with this. It may not be made into a official page today but in time it will eventually be a very good notable service listed on here. Tommy if that is your friend posting on the Ip tell him to not interfere with this. I do not want bad publicity. A message to
MarnetteD Please do not reflect the Ip user's action against any one else but the Ip user. I am actually amazed that a user without a name can comment on here. I never really been a wiki person and I never been the type of person to use services that the masses want you to use which is the whole point of my Social network. I want people to stop using main stream stuff. Alternatives is the future and will always be. Thanx for every ones time. Have a nice day.
Joshdufer 8 August 2015 — Preceding
undated comment added
04:27, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry Josh I will still keep trying to make this better. I guess back to the drawing board. added by
Tommy62702 (
talk •
contribs) 4:36, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Delete - and thanks to
Joshdufer for understanding the process. A news search didn't reveal any sources which go to notability (most are simply to the generic term "buddylist", and not to this company). Remember that not meeting Wikipedia's standards for notability are not a judgment on the validity or usefulness of the company, they are simply thresholds which need to be met in order to provide some sort of consistency for inclusion. There are literally millions of companies without Wikipedia articles. I'm not sure if anyone posted a link, but
WP:GNG and
WP:NCORP clearly show how notability is met.
WP:RS gives a good description on what does or does not qualify as a reliable source. Also remember, for notability purposes sources need to be independent.
Onel5969TT me17:39, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources. All coverage, such as it is, is from dependent sources. Yes, he's an animator -- for VeggieTales. Yes, he's a writer -- for VeggieTales. Yes, he's a producer -- for VeggieTales. Yes, he's a voice actor -- for VeggieTales. Yes, he's founder of a production company -- for VeggieTales. Heck, in the early days he was probably the coffee guy, janitor, receptionist, driver, production assistant, director, human resources director and a whole lot more. We need significant coverage in independent resources. We don't have any. SummerPhDv2.012:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong Keep: He's the co-founder of
Big Idea Entertainment, a company that was acquired by
DreamWorks Classics for nearly $155 million. He has been covered ad nauseum in multiple significant primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. Including, but not limited to,
Patheos,
Catholic Digest, behindthevoiceactors.com, and covered in more books than I can count. His primary character, Larry the Cucumber, honestly requires an article considering that character has made significant contributions to contemporary Christian and pop culture.
Ruski22 (
talk)
21:40, 5 August 2015 (UTC)—
Ruski22 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete - as per nom. I too saw this at an earlier stage and thought there must be something notable here, but I still can't find it.VelellaVelella Talk 21:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep a notable filmaker making a mark on children's entertainment. As a main part of VeggieTales, I'm going to say it warrants a stay on here.
Ovo16 (
talk)
13:54, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. I fully expect to receive some impassioned comments on my talk page regarding this closure, but I don't see any other option; consensus is clear to me. – Juliancolton |
Talk00:43, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
This article was originally speedy deleted but restored following
a DRV discussion concluding that it did not meet the criteria for G11. There are however still doubts about the film's notability. I am listing this on AFD as a matter of administrative procedure and neutral.
Sjakkalle(Check!)11:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep The film has received a fair amount of accolades in Independent film:
1,
2:
Nevada International Film Festival - Best Documentary
Hoboken International Film Festival - Best Documentary
White Sands International Film Festival - Best Director
Worldfest Houston - Special Jury Award - Higher than Platinum
Official Selection: Breckenridge Festival of Film, Chicago Underground Film Festival, Indie Fest USA, NYC Independent Film Festival, Urbanworld Film Festival, White Sands International Film Festival petrarchan47คุก19:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Will all due respect to Nevada etc, I don't think that such awards are quite on the scale of the Academy Awards or Palme D'or given as examples at WP:NFILM - and if these awards are significant, one would expect proper coverage of the awards being given in third-party sources, rather than the passing mentions you link. The article doesn't even cite any reviews in the mainstream media, which one would have thought would be a start if the film is actually of lasting significance.
AndyTheGrump (
talk)
19:48, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The film clearly fails
WP:NFILM, and this article is little more than a poorly-disguised attempt to push
WP:FRINGE views and further advertise the film. The film itself is a trainwreck of conspiracies and falsehoods that has no encyclopedic merit, which is proven quite clearly in
this extremely comprehensive article on the film. At the absolute least, the entire article needs to be rewritten almost entirely in order to comply with wiki guidelines, starting with
WP:NPOV, and even then, it's still going to fail
WP:NFILM.
Garzfoth (
talk)
21:58, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. notable film that has won at least 4 awards and possibly more. Due to the controversial nature of the film, the fact that it has made it to recognition that it has so far is proof. There are some mainstream news sources that deliberately avoided covering the film because of it's controversial nature. Not only is the film by a highly notable figure
Gary Null, it also features highly notable figures such as
Jeffrey Smith,
Vandana Shiva,
Shiv Chopra,
Bruce Lipton,
Joseph Mercola and
Arpad Pusztai and more!
Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
08:13, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It sucks for us, as editors who might want to include something, that other news sources have not covered it for whatever reason. But
that's how Wikipedia works, and it's pretty bad faith on any editor's part to assume nefarious reasons without cite of that motivation. And it's even worse to use that assumption as evidence that this thing is such a hot potato that surely we must write about it. Or that some hidden forces are trying to hold it down, so that any reporting is surely representative of so much more that would have actually been written if not. WP might just have to be content being part of that giant cover-up for now.
DMacks (
talk)
08:54, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Your reply to me DMacks is not the correct one because I wasn't talking about that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume your reply has a bit of emotion in it's load rather than your twisting things around. :)
Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
10:46, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
"There are some mainstream news sources that deliberately avoided covering the film because of it's controversial nature"? Really? Do you have a reliable source for that?
AndyTheGrump (
talk)
17:27, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
These "awards" are not in any way significant. In fact, you had to create at least one of the articles on the non-notable groups making the awards. Odd that. Guy (
Help!)
21:39, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
IMPORTANT NOTE TO CLOSING ADMIN, From the get-go this article was speedily deleted by
User:Winner 42 under
an incorrect claim of G11 which was completely uncalled for. There was nothing promotional about the film at all. Nothing! The user that deleted the film was
User:RHaworth. A discussion took place on the user's
Talk Page. It was pointed out to RHarworth that the deletion was invalid and the reply was I think the references were a bit too weak but it is certainly worth a try at DRV. So it seems that the deleting user is doing one thing but then saying another. IT was discussed at
As per Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 July 29. If you could please look into this then that would be a good thing. Already another user on Wikipedia has noticed something. Thanks
Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
12:50, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The initial speedy deletion and deletion review are complete, closed, and irrelevant to this discussion. An article can be sent from speedy to afd without any commentary on the quality of the article or sourcing as long as it is determined the speedy deletion criteria was not met.
Dialectric (
talk)
13:30, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I disagree that the coverage meets
WP:NF as none of the sources given are reliable. The first source is a skeptic blog, the second and third sources while looking reliable are actually just a republication of a fringe source
[24]. The fourth source is also an unreliable source and doesn't provide significant coverage.
Winner 42Talk to me!12:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
That said, in my Chrome-translated version of Piensa Chile I see only a passing mention of the film towards the end, while "The Real News" seems to me to be more of a prmotional link to the video than coverage. I don't see enough to change my !vote.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
13:12, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment 6 x awards and official selection at 6 fests
>>>> is an indication of the notability in that respect. I can see at grassroots level this film is a major player. Possibly more awards in European countries too.
Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
14:45, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
None of those are major festivals or awards. But that's another thing: Houston's Worldfest (the most known of the fests) seems to have given him a "SPECIAL JURY AWARD" just about every time Null has a film at the festival, which is odd. (if you do a Google search for the director's name and Worldfest Houston there's an Excel sheet you can download). Yet I can find no independent source verifying that this Null-film won there. And no, the PBS station page shilling for the film is not a reliable source.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
15:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi Mike. I don't know if I'd go that far. His recent poverty film, for example, garnered standalone reviews in both the LA and New York Times, I see (and to my surprise). Different reviewers, it wasn't just like a wire story thing.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk)
20:47, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
NOTE TO ADMIN REGARDING CONSENSUS A proper consensus may not be able to be reached here for a couple of reasons. One reason is there are those who monitor the deletion boards and feel that their role is to police what stays or goes. Other good, honest people who edit here have no idea about what gets nominated for deletion. This being the case, they happily work on articles with no idea about what is taking place behind the scenes. I believe there are those here who have a communication system (what ever it may) to alert each other. Another reason is there are 2, possibly 3 users already here who have a history of contributing to not only the deletion of certain types of articles but also making sure certain articles do not evolve to something that may include certain info. There is and yes there is also a team-work effort that involves one member doing edits then when that member tires of it the other one comes on. This occurred on a health-related article I was editing as well as one other. As it has happened a few times and I have noticed a pattern, it could be just an innocent case of a young couple that may be looking after an infant. I'd like to think that this is is the case. I'm not going to mention names here as I was advised by another member that it is wrong to "out". What I will at some stage is submit my findings to a trusted admin. I'd like to be wrong on this, I really would but from what I have learnt from a couple of members plus from my own observations, I have to say that these things to happen and could be going on here. So if I'm right, I'd just ask that you allow the maximum time allowed before closure so that other editors (good & honest) may chance upon this discussion and add some balance to it. Thanks.
Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
11:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Winner 42 in addition to your previous gross incorrect nomination of this film for speedy deletion under G11 that was nothing more than a gross (Whatever it was) on your part, you seem to be incapable of understanding what I wrote about consensus. Or maybe you can understand but you choose to mis-represent my words as you did with the film. And if that's so and you felt the need to do so then that's what you have done.
Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
12:50, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
YOUTUBE HIGH HITS According to the Scientific American website and some others - Seeds of death: unveiling the lies of GMOs appears as one of the top hits in a quick search.
>>>>>>> And there's Academia.edu>>>>>>> Enlightened Consciousness website's Yvonne Holterman who was critical of the film in calling it a propaganda film did say that the film had 1.8 million views at December 2014. She has said that it was the anti-GMO propaganda film on the youtube website with the most views.>>>>>>Mr Bill Truth (
talk)
12:43, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The 'enlightened consciousness' website isn't remotely a reliable source. As for 'Academia.edu', you have failed to tell us what it says: please provide a translation (I assume you can speak Dutch - if not, why are you citing it?)
AndyTheGrump (
talk)
14:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The bit on the "enlightened consciousness" website is ripped directly from
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Seeds_of_Death. But the original source article does say that, and I suppose you could interpret it as a declaration of notability, although anyone who continues onwards through that article would quickly realize that this film is pure trash that does not belong on Wikipedia.
Garzfoth (
talk)
13:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The SciAm is only a passing mention and only based on ghit-counting. Even though SciAm is generally a
WP:RS for science-related topics, I'm not sure their
WP:LOTSOFGHITS is a good argument. As we see below, Google does give many off-topic hits for this even if pure counting of on-topic hits were a good argument.
DMacks (
talk)
15:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
How many of those links are actually about the film though? The first page includes a book published in 2005, along with 'A practical guide to ethical polyamory'. The second page is no better:novels published in 2007 and 2012, along with other books by Null - clearly not third-party sources on anything. And trying to access anything beyond page 4 reveals that the search has actiually only found 37 links - the last one being a book on the Kennedy assasination. Google search is more or less useless as a means to demonstrate that a specific topic is discussed in the content - it merely looks for keywords, and the number of finds is an estimate. Notability is demonstrated by significant coverage, not by books that may possibly mention the film in passing.
AndyTheGrump (
talk)
19:40, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I am not sure what you are seeing (google may provide different links in different geographical locations) Here is are the first few entries I am seeing:
|The Fall of Babylon the Great America:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ySQcCgAAQBAJ
Michael D. Fortner - 2015 - Preview
... Christians will take over running the country, and the world. (Sources for this chapter include: The World According to Monsanto, documentary; articles at truthout.org, gmwatch.org; Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs documentary, ...
The Money Mafia: A World in Crisis
https://books.google.ca/books?isbn=1634240073
Paul Hellyer - 2014 - Preview - More editions
“In Gary Null's eyeopening documentary 'Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs,' Dr. Bruce Lipton warns, 'We are leading the world into the sixth mass extinction of life on this planet.... Human behavior is undermining the web of life.' ...
Anti-Krebs Strategien:
https://books.google.ca/books?id... - Translate this page
Alexander Becker - Preview
In klinischen Versuchen wurde schon 1990 herausgefunden, dass gentechnisch veränderte Lebensmittel Tumore und Krebs bei Versuchen mit Ratten auslösen ( Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs (2012)). Glücklicherweise, besteht ...
Optimale Gesundheit - Leben im Einklang mit unseren ...
https://books.google.ca/books?id... - Translate this page
Alexander Becker - Preview
In klinischen Versuchen wurde schon 1990 herausgefunden, dass gentechnisch veränderte Lebensmittel Tumore und Krebs bei Versuchen mit Ratten auslösen ( Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs (2012)). Glücklicherweise, besteht ...
Ottawahitech (
talk)
20:12, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per MichaelQSchmidt and others. This film has been a part of several regionally significant film festivals and, as it is a grassroots independent documentary, it is not apt to be at Cannes or the Oscars, but it does meet GNG. Indeed, bad reviews or questioned science doen't mean that the film isn't notable. We have articles on films such as
Loose Change (film series), so just because this is a film about an agriculture topic that isn't as widely discussed as 9/11 does not mean the film doesn't meet the minimum standards of notability.
Montanabw(talk)00:15, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. I've found this film through local mainstream media sources in my country and came here to read about it. I recognise various figures from the film who are notable. Would be a shame to see this well-written article go.
HermanForever — Preceding
undated comment added
12:41, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
So your argument is that the film contains figures that you believe are notable, and that the article is "well-written"? Neither of those justify keeping the article.
Garzfoth (
talk)
13:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete, non-notable crank film, not distributed through any of the usual channels, of no demonstrated significance. Guy (
Help!)
16:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Eh? It's nothing to do with censorship, it's a no-budget film made by a crank with no reality-based commentary to allow
WP:NPOV to be maintained; all coverage seems to track back to promotional material. Guy (
Help!)
09:58, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: This is a crappy article, and a lot of it should be gutted. The citations need to be formatted so that the publication is listed and noted in each. The putative awards need to be cited from each award's website -- so far, none of them are. For all of these reasons, it's well-nigh impossible to tell if the subject meets
WP:NFILM. I did however find actual substantiation for at least one of the awards, here:
[25]. My view is that if all of the putative awards could be accurately cited, that cumulatively would push the film over into notability for Wikipedia.
Softlavender (
talk)
08:21, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete and redirect or merge. The film is mentioned in part in a number of notable secondary articles but it isn't the topic of those articles. That is to say that it is in the articles as part of a broader point. On the other hand works of art of notable people are in themselves notable but do not always warrant a separate article. Since the creator has several films to his credit many of them
WP:BARE articles merging them together into a larger
Films by Gary Null article would be far more efficient.--
Savonneux (
talk)
08:32, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was no consensus. Opinions are divided, as they can in good faith be, over the merits of the sources, so... no clear outcome here. Sandstein 18:51, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - We don't use tabloids to establish notability of a topic. "Hungarian tabloid" sounds exotic, but if it's on the same level as ones we're more familiar with in the West eg. the Daily Mail and TMZ, then they are just as worthless.
Tarc (
talk)
01:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
No way it's a
WP:BLP1E as well. I suspect you have not checked the sources, most of the articles covers her whole career, "being a topless dj" is not an event, it's just a profession, especially as "being a topless dj" is not something rare, looking at Google there are some hundreds of nude DJs around the world
[36]. The sources are not articles about "nude djing", and they generally do not cover the "nude dj" thing for more than a line, they cover her (specific) whole figure and career (several of them starting from when she was a child). And anyway, according to some articles such as the Dnevnik Nove TV one, she actually does "standard" dj sets and she not make nude djing since 2011.
WP:BLP1E has three requisites and the subject does not fulfil any of them, that's not even close to a BLP1E.
Cavarrone14:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
If it was not for the toplessness, there would be no coverage. BLP1E protects us from having to host articles on every two-bit retarded "weird story of the day" that the media decides to cover. Whether it's a girl who hiccups constantly or the guy who blows his head off with fireworks. Add "topless" to any profession...news anchor, bowling, fry cook, etc...and a news story is virtually guaranteed. Sensational != notable.
Tarc (
talk)
14:26, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
It is not a BLP1E as it fails each and every point of BLP1E, whatever your personal feelings, own interpretations or personal bias are, period. BLP1E protects us from having articles on low-profile individuals who are only mentioned in the context of a wider event in which they had not a significant role, eg. a civil victim of a bombing or one of the witnesses of the
Lee Harvey Oswald killing. Belucci gets coverage plain and simple because she was not unknown before her DJ career and she managed to achieve some success in her actual profession, even leveraging her previous notoriety. Someone receiving international coverage about herself and her work in established news sources for eight years, touring in several countries and participating to international festivals as noted in such sources, is not the "weird story of the day".
Competence is required and you cannot misuse policies because of your speculations and bias. And FIY, as pointed above, there are hundreds of nude/topless DJs who receive zero secondary coverage (and let alone thousand of pornographic actors or nude models who completely fail GNG in spite of showing way more than a topless).
Cavarrone15:44, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
If we're to throw
WP:CIR around, it is better aimed at editors, i.e. you, who misuse the Wikipedia as the Linkedin of Porn. I stand by the point that a person who is only receiving coverage for one peculiar thing is on solid BLP1E grounds. If the closing admin disagrees then that is fine.
Tarc (
talk)
16:08, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Uh, fantastic, first you falsely claimed valid sources were tabloids, then you raised some bizarre and patently incorrect BLP1E claims and finally after being rebutted you just ended in personal attacks. You are just making some unimpressive
wikilawyering because of your bias (i.e. someone who made pornography should be automatically non-notable) and then you should take a look at
WP:CENSOR. Sorry but providing and checking sources (that do not cover only "one peculiar thing" as you keeps on claiming) and improving the article replacing unreliable sources with valid ones is not "misusing the Wikipedia as the Linkedin of Porn", your use of
WP:CIR for such attack is just a further proof of your lack of competence and good faith. You just have no arguments other than your advocacy, but advocacy, either pro-something or anti-something, is not welcome on WP.
Cavarrone16:32, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I have initiated many successful AfDs on that basis of that BLP1E standard, and seen many others deleted on such grounds. Sometimes it does not carry the day, we'll just have to see what happens here. What this sounds like yet another "Old Hand"(tm) Wikipedian who is just out-of-step with the reality today XfDs, where the
Rescue Squad dogma is long-gone.
Tarc (
talk)
16:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I have rebutted such poor arguments in a bunch of failed AfDs started on that basis of incorrect applications of BLP1E like yours. You have just not explained how the current subject fulfils any of the three points of BLP1E and how the sources support such a BLP1E claim, so, good luck. The only fact you retrieved the BLP1E argument as a reserve after your "tabloid" argument failed explains a lot about its validity.
Cavarrone16:49, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. The articles on her DJ appearances do not appear to be RS-quality, but instead appear to be uncritical workups of the subject's own promotional materials. For example, the Libero piece cited by Cavarrone describes Belucci as the only topless DJ in the world, which is clearly non-factual; several of these sources describe the subject's renowned career as a national-class gymnast in some detail, providing her real name, which she competed under -- but here seems to be no verifiability for such claims predating the subject's current career, strongly indicating the bio is, at best, kayfabe. The attractive female gymnast sure to reach the Olympics until her career was cut short by injuries is a common fake life story for Eastern European porn starlets, and nothing here supports it being anything other than inauthentic. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of journeyman rock bands, rappers, and other performers who get stories like these published in newspapers for the cities where they're appearing every weekend in the US, and for good reasons they aren't treated as notable.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (
talk)
00:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep per this google news search
[37] (which makes her pass GNG) bringing up lots of Hungarian sources, calling respectable newspapers tabloids because they are foreign is not convincing. Sources do not have to be in english. Calling her two careers as a DJ (She DJs non topless too, more frequently non topless.) and porn one event is not supported by policy.
GuzzyG (
talk)
21:14, 10 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was redirect to
Pitzer College. Consensus is not to have an article, but unclear as to whether to merge or delete. So let the editorial process sort this out; any merger, to the extent consensus supports it, can be done from the history. Sandstein 18:54, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - you need significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. Technically, these sources might be "independent" of the subject, but not in a "real world" sense of providing substantial media coverage.
North of Eden (
talk)
03:06, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep -- seems as though the this organization is relevant and complex enough that it merits its own article. The citations appear to be credible and independent, although they should probably be diversified eventually. —
555horsesandponies (
talk)
05:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - the "extensive verifiable references" are primary sources with the exception of one or two external sources. Not enough to show
WP:ORG notability.--
Rpclod (
talk)
02:33, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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This diet has no coverage in respectable RS (the phrase occurs nowhere in PUBMED's index) and so it is not possible to construct a viable article. There is coverage in unreliable sources but this is unscientific in nature and so using it leads to an unscientific/misleading article - which is what we have.
Alexbrn (
talk)
05:04, 21 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - Not everything has to be covered in respectable RS to have an article, see e.g.
Reiki or
Intelligent Design. The topic may be fringe, but as far as I can tell it is also fairly common and so should have an article. That said, the current article we have is very bad, so I'd support a 'delete until it is better written' kind of decision.
Banedon (
talk)
00:43, 22 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Both Reki and ID have stacks of RS coverage.
WP:GNG is fundamental and requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". We ain't got that here so far as can see.
Alexbrn (
talk)
02:07, 22 July 2015 (UTC)reply
That's a good point actually. I have only briefly looked at this topic, but it seems a bit fishy in the sense that all the results returned by Google are in favour of it, yet if it were really that effective I'd expect bodies such as the FDA to endorse it too. That said there are a lot of results returned by Google, many of which look reasonably RS. I know little about this subject, so in view of that I think it's better to stay on the sidelines of this AfD. Retract my opinion.
Banedon (
talk)
03:06, 27 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I did a search and I can't find any
reliable sources that give this topic more than a cursory mention. The best I could come up with is
this, which isn't enough. If one can be found, I would reconsider, but if kept the article needs some serious work. It's far too credulous. —
BorgHunter (
talk)
02:21, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. Zero, or very close to zero, mention in reliable sources of any type. The article makes claims that would require
WP:MEDRS, but nothing even approaching coverage of this material is available there. To the extent that reliable sources are cited in the article, they are either referencing background statements not directly related to the article's premise, or are used in a deceptive manner: the cited Journal of Nutrition paper most assuredly does not attribute the positive effects of vegetable consumption to "liver cleansing", for example.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
13:09, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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This page mostly serves as the target of a redirect from
Semiaquatic and
Semi-aquatic. There is no clear criteria for inclusion in the list and if there were to be a list of creatures who meet the Wiktionary definition for
semi-aquatic, it would be exceedingly long and unhelpful. I propose that the links above be changed to a {{soft redirect}} to the Wiktionary definition and the few links directly to this page changed to that soft redirect. SchreiberBike |
⌨ 01:56, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete List is woefully incomplete, and the concept of "semiaquatic organisms" has fuzzy boundaries. Dictionary definition will serve readers better than a shoddy list.
Plantdrew (
talk)
05:08, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Some consideration should be given to restricting the list to a more manageable taxonomic category, such as "List of semiaquatic vertebrates" or "List of semiaquatic mammals".
WolfmanSF (
talk)
15:30, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Given that
Aquatic animal and
Terrestrial animal are both article subjects, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that an article on semiaquatic lifestyles is also merited. Perhaps this would be better handled by an article with more description, rather than simply a list of examples.
WolfmanSF (
talk)
18:50, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. Not all topics are well-served by lists. The definition of semi-aquatic is not firmly established, and different authors employ the term differently. That makes it an excellent topic for an article, explaining the different senses of the term, their history, and discussing key example taxa. On the other hand, it makes for a terrible premise for a list, especially an unmanageably large one such as this would be.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
13:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete The term semi-aquatic has no single accepted scientific definition, making any inclusion criteria dodgy. Also, even if we were to overcome this problem, there would be millions of potential entries. These organisms would be far better served by a [[Category:Semi-aquatic organisms]].
Vanamonde93 (
talk)
17:28, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete. No third-party sourcing or in-depth coverage. The article probably qualifies for speedy deletion, since no assertion of notability is made. --
DAJF (
talk)
07:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete - Software company article of unclear notability, lacking significant independent coverage. Refs provided are incidental mentions and non-notable awards. A search turned up no significant
WP:RS coverage. Article was created by an
SPA as possibly promotional.
Dialectric (
talk)
13:57, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment there exists a copy/paste draft
here, which has been declined. If there is a decision to draftify, strongly recommend a histmerge to maintain attribution.
Primefac (
talk)
09:34, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The article fails
WP:GNG. He co-produced two albums but has received no significant coverage in reliable sources. Indeed, the article has no reliable sources. Note: I did just delete five references before making this nomination because not one of them mentioned the subject of the article; the one that remains doesn't refer to him by the name of the article but rather by the name used on another article, created by the same editor (most likely the subject), that
was just deleted. --
Irn (
talk)
17:50, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. Part hoax, part not notable, part liar. Editor behind this has been introducing fake credits for this individual. Compare the writers credits introduced to
[38]Joe Budden (album) to those found at allmusic
[39]. No sign of Joe Constantino at allmusic.
duffbeerforme (
talk)
12:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete, I can't find any either. The article was created by a newly registered user just minutes after a newly registered user made
these edits, which (given the lack of sources) may suggest an intent more promotional than encyclopedic.
Ewulp (
talk)
06:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete. I'm kind of sad to say this, as he seems to have been an upstanding citizen and great fellow, but he has no notability whatsoever. No coverage in reliable, independent sources, no indication of personal significance outside of his small town. Nice as it would be, Wikipedia just isn't a directory of good townsfolk from the olden days, especially when they don't meet
WP:GNG.
North of Eden (
talk)
02:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. Unsurprisingly, there's not a lot on the Internet about this medical doctor, whose career was pre-WWW. I
tried various searches. He's mentioned briefly in two histories of Indiana. Other than that, he seems to be just your average rural baby-delivering, influenza-fighting physician; I don't see anything really notable. I'm willing to change my mind.
Bearian (
talk)
23:40, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Keep - first his name is Marat, not Marath. I'm improving. Not run of the mill. He was involved in high-level talks between the Azerbaijani government and foreign oil companies. According to allegations and exposes (including The Times), he demanded (and possibly received) $360 million in bribes from BP and other companies. Manatov later announced that he was only working on behalf of the president of AZE, who was running all kinds of corruption rackets. Manafov then vanished off the face of the earth and is assumed to be playing checkers somewhere with
Jimmy Hoffa.
—МандичкаYO 😜
15:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, Marat Manafov (or it would be transcribed as "Manafow" in German or Polish). Thanks
Müdigkeit for looking at the improved article and reconsidering - I'll close as withdrawn.
—МандичкаYO 😜
16:29, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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The result was delete. Deletion is uncontested apart from a rather incomprehensible comment. Would probably meet the G11 (purely promotional) criteria too, in my view. Sandstein 18:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Just an attempt by someone most likely linked to the company to give them an air of respectability. This belongs on their PR page and not on wiki.
Rayman60 (
talk)
22:37, 30 July 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete Can't find significant independent coverage. Songs haven't charted or won any notable awards. Linkspam of external links as well as the general tone is promotional. His two music videos have racked up about 150 views on Youtube so dunno where the 400000 figure comes from.
Cowlibob (
talk)
18:51, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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This is an unsourced article with nothing I can find about it elsewhere in my internet searches, so this could probably be a hoax. The names of the founder and the photographer and model aren't present out in the internet too, in my search effort. The images and their summaries however are the closest evidence to prove that this company exists, but they're not found outside of its Wikipedia source too.
TheGGoose (
talk)
05:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise by someone with Greek print media sources, but I don't expect they'll be forthcoming. This article posits the existence of a multinational cosmetics company, funded by Aristotle Onassis, and purchased by L’Oréal. Admittedly, consumer products business news from the 1970s and 1980s is not necessarily online... However, there's no mention of this company in any of the biographies of Onassis that I could locate. No mention of this company in L’Oréal's history. No Internet presence for the company, for its founder, for its principal photographer, for its model. The only images of advertising copy associated with this company that appear to exist online are the ones present in this article (despite the fact that "classic" advertisements are somewhat in vogue as a topic of study and discussion). Oh, and while it's sort of believable as a name for a cosmetics company, the obvious root word here is the Latin mendax: false, deceitful, untruthful, or lying.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
13:35, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Interesting that this subject's name is based on a Latin word that describes hoaxes. Notice in Mendaxi Press Advert 1972.jpg where there is a vertical gap in the middle, perhaps giving the realization that the image is from two pages. The last edit by the article creator also asserts a bit more info about Mendaxi and a claim that the photographer also worked on a Benetton campaign.
here.
TheGGoose (
talk)
18:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete. Absolutely nothing found on this company. The "advertisements" could easily be produced using even the most basic image editing software - they are likely hoaxes themselves. Since the company supposedly had subsidiaries in "more than 20 countries," the Greek language shouldn't be a barrier; if this company existed, many references in Western European languages should be available. The text quality of the upper left advertisement looks particularly poor (almost like using MS Paint or a similar program to type on an image) and would not have been used by any actual advertiser in 1972, nor would an advertiser have perplexed customers by mixing Greek and Latin scripts within the same sentence. The purchase of a cosmetics giant operating in 20 countries would also have attracted attention from business reporters, but no references to Mendaxi exist in Google's News Archive or Google Books (aside from one "book" consisting solely of Wikipedia articles). All of these details point to a likely hoax.
Calamondin12 (
talk)
22:03, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Tagged as G3 - I was going to tag it as G3 when I noticed it was nominated and this should easily been tagged as my searches including the simplest ones found absolutely nothing. Although this is before the internet, I'm not very optimistic there are non-English and offline sources because they're would've at least been something especially if it was actually acquired by L’Oréal and funded by Aristotle Onassis; not to mention the photos seem to appear newer than the 1970s.
SwisterTwistertalk20:18, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
I actually tagged the article with G3, but I reverted it and set up this discussion instead, to see what other Wikipedians recommend.
TheGGoose (
talk)
20:58, 6 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Vanity bio extensively edited by the subject and written in a highly promotional tone complete with unverifiable name dropping typical of these articles. Sources are thin or associated with him, everything else out there is social media and self-generated content. Fails
WP:MUSICBIO. §
FreeRangeFrogcroak05:20, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete I find no evidence of notability, the primary author is treating the article as a portal to all of his work, and he sources everything he writes to his own websites and press releases. This is so even as he restores content I already deleted once because it was full of grand claims supported only by his own content elsewhere.
—Largo Plazo (
talk)
15:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Possible advertising. With no reliable references together with a confusing subject and does not appear to be encyclopedic. Reads like a corporate handbook and has a strange tone.
The Average Wikipedian (
talk)
04:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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I think it is safe to say that this falls into the category of "one-event" biography. It may have been "viral" at some time, but I can't see how it passes any of the notability guidlines.
AtHomeIn神戸 (
talk)
02:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Unsourced by any non-dead, independent sources. Even its own "Official website" links falls back to a homepage with no mention. Fails
WP:CRYSTAL as not yet broadcast, nor seeming to be credibly announced. It also appears to be a 1 episode pilot, thus even more dubious.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
00:56, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Speedy delete Painful writing just ringing all the alarm bells and the usual "fun with
MS Paint" Nick hoaxers pass by all the time (and they can't even get basic writing or years right in those figures either!). Otherwise, using the Nick press site to 'source' without anything to link from, Nick isn't doing 'regular kid' game shows at this point and anyone doing a show in standard definition in 2015 would be laughed out of the room (we're well into the all-HD era now). Third creation, so it may be time to add a dash of salt to this. Not to mention some of the personnel like
Herb Scannell? Kind of not in the position to spare time on a game show, what with other jobs and non-competes and those kind of things. Nate•(
chatter)06:49, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete and salt. This show existed only in the form of an unsold pilot episode. It doesn't have independent coverage, and it doesn't meet inclusion criteria. This iteration of the article appears (to the extent that the prose is comprehensible at all) to gussy it up as if it had been picked up and was going to air in 2015. It didn't. It isn't. Let's put a stop to this.
Squeamish Ossifrage (
talk)
13:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Previously deleted
here. Refs show that it exists (2 x Bloomberg) and it has passing refs. The only slightly weightier one is the Daily Mail which isn't considered a reliable or robust source. Fails
WP:GNGVelellaVelella Talk 16:45, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
IN AN EFFORT to extend the company's portfolio, Haute Media Group is introducing a group of niche sites focused on the luxury consumer demographic. The move to launch these initial 5 media products came after HauteLiving.com, the national luxury lifestyle website for Haute, Living, began generating at least 20,000 unique visitors per day.
Haute Living CEO Kamal Hotchandani said, “We had the digital product pushed out [to] 8.2 million people before the print edition launched.”
The result, he said: “We had 48,000 digital downloads in the first 24 hours.”
Haute Time is one of a series of enterprises being spun out of Haute Living, a 9-year-old company that Hotchandani said has revenues north of $10 million a year.
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Delete per nom as a hoax article. There seems to be no indication anywhere that this ever existed as an animated PBS show.
Mz7 (
talk)
00:52, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Not so sure about that.
these nine all cite
PMID22617736 for starters.
PMID26034465 refers briefly too, saying "The Model for Assessment of Telemedicine applications [21] was chosen for a systematic analysis and description of outputs for NEXES." Suggest this article be either userfied or moved to draft space for further work.— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
LeadSongDog (
talk •
contribs)
20:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC)reply
So... not sure if any of those describe MAST per se. I would agree with the recommendation to move to draft space for more work before it comes back to mainspace.
Jytdog (
talk)
21:13, 22 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Are we applying too high a standard to an emerging area? Evaluation of telemedicine is in its infancy. Where are we going to find these independent sources?
Rathfelder (
talk)
17:59, 23 July 2015 (UTC)reply
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Almost all the refs are own refs and the very few that are not don't confer any notability. The two that aren't own web-site are Free Software Magazine, and Tech Republic and both read as though they are spawned from press releases. Does not appear to satisfy
WP:GNGVelellaVelella Talk 23:22, 20 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Your statement is incorrect. Furthermore your statement is vague and does not state a valid for page deletion. Majority of references referring to pfSense page are technical nature and the two you consider wrong are still valid. Please provide valid reasons. --
Mnlth (
talk)
23:38, 20 July 2015 (UTC)reply
In addition to my previous message, most of references you consider wrong are actual history, product version and features which cannot be referenced anywhere other than to pfSense page. If you can find references about pfSense history and their product versions on some more reliable source, please let me know. --
Mnlth (
talk)
23:41, 20 July 2015 (UTC)reply
EDIT:
Here's a longer list of pages that are also referencing to their own sites, why are they not marked for deletion?
The nominator does propose a valid reason for deletion, and that is that the subject fails to satisfy
WP:GNG, the general notability guideline. If you disagree, the most effective way to counter the claim is to provide
reliable, secondary sources that discuss this subject in detail. While
self-published sources are generally okay for verification of information in appropriate circumstances, they contribute very little to establishing a subject's
notability. Also, pointing out that other articles with similar issues exist does not prove that this particular article should exist—see
WP:WHATABOUTX. —
Mz7 (
talk)
02:46, 27 July 2015 (UTC)reply
How to provide secondary sources for release notes? More importantly, how does that make information more valid? It simply makes no sense to provide references and secondary sources for the release notes from sources that have no connection with pfSense project. Furthermore,
WP:GNG is satisfied because references to secondary sources are provided on subjects that required it. On subjects like release notes, references must go to official source of information and not secondary sources. --
Mnlth (
talk)
15:46, 27 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry for the confusion. Significant coverage in secondary sources is needed to show that the subject is
notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. Of course you can use primary sources for
verifying release notes.
Mz7 (
talk)
17:50, 27 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. Covered by Softpedia
[40] (if good enough for
Department of Homeland Security[41], good enough for me), InfoWorld
[42], NetworkWorld, ZDNet, SecurityWeek, Phoronix
[43], Tech Republic; multiple books written on subject; Microsoft writes about configuring it for their products
[44]. Notability is not established by sources in article (
WP:CIRC maybe applies?), but their mere existence elsewhere. Article could certainly use some cleanup, however. Maybe OP can search for external sources (appears to not have occurred prior to AfD...) and include those into article. A primary sources tag is warranted in head of article, but not deletion, as it clearly meets GNG. Namaste. --
dsprc[talk]18:02, 21 July 2015 (UTC)reply
This really makes no sense. pfSense page is being considered for deletion because majority references point to release notes on pfsense project pages (their own refs). These refs are strictly release notes and it simply makes no logic or sense to reference any other secondary source for release notes. On the other subjects there are references on secondary sources, so [[WP:GNG] is satisfied and
WP:GNG is satisfied because references to secondary sources are provided on subjects that required it.--
Mnlth (
talk)
17:55, 27 July 2015 (UTC)reply
@Velella: May i ask you what triggered you to mark this page for deletion?
Because it is a bit odd that this happens "just" as there is dispute between opnsense and pfsense.
Or differently asked. Are you affiliated to opnsense?
GruensFroeschli (
talk)
07:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep. The article is backed up by plenty of unrelated news sources - including a recommendation for why you should be using it s recently as 2014/DEC that does not appear to be directly related to a press release.
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Fails
WP:CORP. Brief mentions on irrigation industry and local organizations' websites but no significant coverage in
WP:RS. Note that "azud" is a term for a type of dam in Spanish so a lot of hits will come up that are not specific to this org. PROD contested last year.
Vrac (
talk)
02:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Fails
WP:CORP. Lack of non-industry references and no real claim to independent notability such as notable market share, capitalization, corporate personalities/employees, inventions, or growth. Also written as an advertisement. We're not a trade publication.
GraniteSand (
talk)
02:38, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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WP:TNT and
WP:JUNK- plain and simple. This article is a mess, written by what appears to be the subject without decent sourcing. I attempted a
WP:PROD so that the article could be recreated without prejudice, but the editor contested it. I recommend deleting without prejudice towards a new article with adequate sourcing written in a NPOV, since I believe the subject passes
WP:BIO. There's not much here to save though.
The Dissident Aggressor19:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)reply
As the editor contesting the deletion (and I am NOT the subject). I have added references today and will continue to update the article and source the material as my schedule permits
Skaneid (
talk)
07:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
The career and sourcing are idiosyncratic. There is this old WaPo story about a de Caro idea that never got off the ground.
[51] Similar in Baltimore Sun
[52] serious stories in serious newspapers; about a proposal that didn't fly. They and some of the other sources now in article could probably be used to source a brief article on de Caro, if
User:Skaneid or someone else were willing to look at how WP articles are written and take the time to attempt write an acceptable one. Such an article would, for example, need to show that the co-authored books were not merely written and printed, but reviewed or written up in reliable sources. The shooting
[53] was dramatic.
[54] I am glad to know that Mr. de Caro will recover. If Skaneid or someone would read other articles on journalists and writers, and study Wikipedia style and sourcing guidelines, this article might be improved to the point where it could pass the notability threshold.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
22:18, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
I appreciate E.M. Gregory's advise. Silly me, I actually was using the WP article on Dan Rather as a style guide. I will continue to work to improve this article as I find both the man and his work fascinating.
Skaneid (
talk)
08:01, 30 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment The publications are not books, but trivial pamphlets or conference reports, with a length of between 10 and 30 pages not books, or at least the half of them I could find a working link for. None of them are in WorldCat -- and not even in Amazon. DGG (
talk )
23:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete Most of this article is written without proper citations using one-off editor names that have been used exclusively to edit this article (
HarrietteG,
Clancy1234,
Skaneid, and
Skastrolabe), and showing a familiarity with de Caro that raises the suspicion that he wrote it himself. There was only one citation in the references section, one that I added when I created the references section, and it pertained only to the de Caro shooting in 2015. Citations added since this deletion was proposed are improperly coded. Apart from that small paragraph about the shooting, the rest of the article is subject to removal because it is original research. Delete the article and rewrite in correct form using only material that survives scrutiny with proper citations from reliable sources, as required by Wikipedia. Tear it up, begin again, and adhere to rules in any rewrite.
— O'Dea (
talk)
17:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:BLP1E - this person is only approaching our standards of notability because second amendment enthusiasts have latched onto his recent hotel gunfight as a political plank. His previous (trivial) mentions in various news media are to be expected from someone who was a reporter for many years; none of the coverage is about him, it's about stuff he reported on, much of it written by him. I share DGG's findings in looking for his publications, and find no evidence to suggest notability. With respect to the article's creators, please see our
reliable source guidelines, especially as they relate to
YouTube and
blogs.
Ivanvector🍁 (
talk)
06:48, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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I'm unsure about this DJ being really notable or not, so I'm bringing this article for discussion. There are three sources: one of them just mentions him. The other two come from a non-major website. The awards he received are no special things either. Google searches failed to return anything too relevant. The Portuguese version of the article had far more sources, but was deleted last year.
Victão LopesFala!06:34, 22 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - I'm not a Portuguese speaker but my searches found nothing and I'd think if the Portuguese article was deleted, that's probably say something so delete this one for now until further sourcing and notability can be established.
SwisterTwistertalk06:39, 9 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - just another DJ, the DJ Sound Award (unsourced) still fails
WP:ANYBIO, the first source lists him #89 of the TOP 100 Brazilian DJs, the second source doesn't mention him, and the third source says "soap opera star Paola Oliveira dances to the music provided by DJ Garcia" and has a photo of the two, but notability is not
WP:INHERITEDKraxler (
talk)
16:33, 12 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Non-notable local AM DJ, fails the GNG and
WP:ENTERTAINER. Article has been BLP tagged for seven years following a removed prod. Just took out a bunch of unsourced
WP:PEACOCK violations and outright trivia, and when the dust settled, there's damn near nothing supported by a reliable source (and, as to that,
no reliable sources). Just a paltry handful of news hits
[55], all which are
routine casual mentions, even under "Freakin' Puerto Rican," a moniker Torres used to use but apparently doesn't now.
The article's history has it being created and worked over by a small horde of SPAs. No doubt the subject is a swell fellow, but his Wikipedia fan club notwithstanding, he just doesn't meet the standards for a biographical article.
Ravenswing 05:04, 22 July 2015 (UTC)reply
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Delete. Fails PORNBIO without award wins. Multiple nominations are not enough. Fails GNG without significant coverage by reliable sources.
• Gene93k (
talk)
12:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep - as has won many awards, passes PORNBIO & GNG, This !vote has absolutely nothing to do with the infobox image and or her looks ... –
Davey2010Talk00:47, 30 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Multiple nominations (there are no wins) do not satisfy
WP:PORNBIO, and there is zero coverage in reliable sources. Not sure why this was relisted; Subtropical Man's votes in porn BLPs are routinely discarded as they violate project policy and guideline alike, while
Davey2010's makes a demonstrably false claim of as has won many awards that he has yet to explain.
Tarc (
talk)
01:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete multiple nominations with no wins does not make someone notable in this industry, it probably indicates the latter. The pornography industry engages in award inflation to a level where just being nominated for an award is meaningless.
John Pack Lambert (
talk)
14:59, 7 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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