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The result of the debate was merged/redirected. — this is messedr͏̈ocker (talk) 20:36, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Goleta Postal massacre

Entire content of article is contained in article Goleta, California. Rockero 22:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was nomination withdrawn. -- Core des at talk. o.o;; 04:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Magical negro

Possibly made up term. Ibaranoff24 20:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC) My apologies. ( Ibaranoff24 01:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result of the nomination was keep. Oh, nice article btw. ;) - Mailer Diablo 04:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Fairbank Memorial Park

Non-notable park, even among Toronto parks. -- Christopher Thomas 20:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete. This is already listed at List of Toronto parks, and the article adds little additional information. This park isn't notable, and there are several dozen others just like it in the city. The parks that _are_ notable in Toronto are Downsview Park, High Park, the Toronto Islands, and maybe Ashbridge's Bay Park. -- Christopher Thomas 20:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Non-notability is not necessarily a factor when deciding whether or not to keep an article. Moreover, in his above comment, Christopher Thomas severely misrepresents the state parks in Toronto, as well as their converage on Wikipedia. Not only are there many parks deserving of articles, there's a whole category that includes a substantial portion of them. While the article is rather paltry at the moment, it does provide useful information, and it is frequently the case that great articles start out small. Another consideration is that this appears to be the first article Daloonik has created. While this alone can't be a reason not to delete, it can be a reason to err on the side of keep, as destroying the work of a contributor who took the initiative to learn enough about Wikipedia to create an article, including apparently going out to take pictures specifically for the article, is only likely to discourage a user who has shown he can make useful edits from continuing to participate on Wikipedia. Stanfordandson 22:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment that is not quite true, this user was also the creator of the ever-so-interesting page Fairbank Memorial Community Recreation Centre. He was also blocked recently. Pascal.Tesson 23:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Wikipedia is not a directory. While a list of all parks in Toronto can be argued to be in scope, articles about every patch of land with grass and trees on it aren't. I live in Toronto, and am extremely familiar both with its parks in general, and with Fairbank Memorial Park (which I visit regularly). My comments stand. -- Christopher Thomas 02:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Merge and redirect to List of Toronto parks. Also delete the page just mentionned. Pascal.Tesson 23:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. If Wikipedia has individual articles on metro stations all over the world, why not parks? -- Rbraunwa 02:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and redirect to list of Toronto parks for now. That list could be organised as a table, say, with pictures of the parks and information about each of them. Of course, when there is enough information it can be split out again into its own article, but I think it makes much more sense in a list at the moment. -- bainer ( talk) 03:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Notability is not a criterion for deletion. Please read policy before nominating articles you don't like. Grace Note 04:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • If the article had any significant content, you might have a point. If it weren't for WP:NOT, you might also have a point. As it stands, the stub serves no purpose that the list of Toronto parks doesn't already serve, and given the non-notability of the park, I have grave doubts about it _ever_ having content that justifies a separate article. -- Christopher Thomas 05:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Comment Note that Grace Note provides no actual reason why the article should be kept, just an ad hominem attack on reasons why the article should be deleted. Proto/// type 09:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete unless there's something particularly notable about the park apart from its presence. BigHaz 06:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong delete. It's a park in Toronto. There is nothing encyclopaedic about that; all the necessary exposition possible on an unnotable park is within the List of Toronto parks. The park has no special features or unique aspects that make it anything more than a patch of grass and trees. Quite frankly, if it wasn't already going through AFD, I'd speedy delete the article as containing no significant content. The article states "Fairbank Memorial Park is a park in Toronto. There's a street to the west, and it has a community centre". That's not even a substub. Proto/// type 09:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Public parks are notable public resources, and this is a perfectly reasonable stub. List of Toronto parks does not include any information about any of the parks in question apart from their names, so a Merge to that target doesn't seem like a viable option. If it's merged anywhere (which I'd still discourage), it should be to the neighborhood that contains the park. - Hit bull, win steak (Moo!) 15:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment I don't get it. How is a 1 block park a "notable public resource"? Look at a Google earth or something and you'll see what this is: a park with a baseball field and a basketball court. Any city the size of Toronto has about 100 of these. So even by a conservative estimate there are hundreds of thousands of parks like this all over the world. I don't see how any future editor will be motivated to expand this. Half of the edit history is due to racist vandalism created by user:Daloonik and user:Stanfordandson (who incidently voted above to keep the page). Why keep open an article that's a sandbox for vandals? Pascal.Tesson 17:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment While I don't currently have time to respond to everything I'd like to respond to here, I'd like to point out that at no time did I ever make a racist or vandalistic edit to that article. I'll deal with this more later, but before I do, I suggest you bone up on Wikipedia's no personal attack policy and Wikipedia's civility policy. I take accusations of racism very seriously. Stanfordandson 17:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment: Vandalism isn't a reason for deletion. If it were, we wouldn't have an article on a lot of topics worthy of coverage, including George W. Bush. If vandalism is a problem, request semi-protection for the article. As to your other point, neither you nor I have any idea as to which articles hypothetical future editors will want to expand. We have some very nice articles on small urban parks, such as Ralph Bunche Park (to cite one example), so it's certainly not out of the question that some editor will improve this one. - Hit bull, win steak (Moo!) 17:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment note that I am not saying that the article should be deleted because of vandalism. All I am saying is that an article about an un-notable small park (unlike Ralph Bunche Park) is a door left open for trolling. Keeping the article means having admins patrolling it to remove inappropriate edits and then facing accusations of stalking (again, pls take a look at the edit history). There is no benefit for Wikipedia to keep this article. Pascal.Tesson 18:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment: I've already looked at the edit history, thanks, and my opinion is unchanged. If someone wants to troll or vandalize, they're going to find a place to do it, whether it's this article or somewhere else. Deleting the article would only deny useful information to legitimate users. - Hit bull, win steak (Moo!) 21:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
You keep _saying_ that, but your argument about "denying useful information" breaks down for articles, like this one, that contain _no_ useful information. What purpose does this article, right now, serve? -- Christopher Thomas 21:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Right now, even though it's a stub, the article still indicates the location of the park within Toronto and the existence of a community center within the park. It also provides two photographs of the park, indicating that the north end is mostly level ground, with a paved area containing children's playground equipment. That is useful information for someone interested in the subject, and it's information that wouldn't be available from a plain entry on a list. - Hit bull, win steak (Moo!) 22:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was keep. – Avi 15:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Lists of Irish-Americans

also including List of Irish-American actors, List of Irish American gangsters, List of Irish American musicians, List of Irish American politicians.

Merge all to Irish American including only those who are actually partly famous for being Irish-American like Gene Kelly, Ted Kennedy, Tyrone Power, Ronald Reagan. Lists of anyone and everyone who've said "I'm Irish" on St. Patrick's Day are not encyclopedic IMO. Arniep 20:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • do not delete leave as is. Certainly do not merge with 'Irish American' article. Few or no 'xxx American' articles include a name list. The names are all found in 'list of xxx American' articles which is what these articles are for. I created these sub-articles after proposing it on the main 'List of Irish Americans' article and receiving no opposition and one support. Why: the List of Irish Americans' article was getting too long and hard to maintain. As far as the contents of the list, the argument provided is irrelevant to the question. It is up to editors to determine who should be in the list or not, based on facts. Thanks Hmains 20:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
(above moved from the AfD's talk page)
  • Delete these and all other "lists of foos". They can never be comprehensive and it's a bitter fight to get them anywhere near compliant with our policies. Most importantly, it's hard to imagine a reader thinking "oh, maybe if I search under 'list of Irish-American gangsters', something will come up". I think the "what will the reader expect?" test is a good one for articles. Categories were invented for precisely the purpose these lists purportedly serve. However, this is another case in which I do not expect anything resembling common sense to prevail. Far too many people "contribute" to Wikipedia by adding names to lists and once more mob rule will likely win the day. Grace Note 00:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete -- if we don't need "list of Jewish whatever" we don't need this either. A category would be sufficient anyway. Haikupoet 02:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I second Grace Note's comments. -- Rbraunwa 02:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Neutral - not sure what to think. However, I believe, there is one list that now fully complies with Wiki's policies, and that is List of Welsh Americans. Every name is fully sourced to something that says the person in question is a Welsh-American. I plan on doing these once a day, alphabetically up from Welsh. So, Vietnamese - watch out - you're next. Mad Jack 02:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. There is a List of Jewish American politicians. Since Irish-Americans are a much more prominent part of American politics, this list should stay. This list could use a new format though. It also doesn't list many politicians. It could be divided up into different categories and include many more Irish American politicians with wikipedia pages that are in the Irish-American politician category, but not on the List of Irish-American page. 75.3.49.50

03:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

'Do Not Delete the list' - this list does have value to researchers - Irish American studies as with other ethnic groups is common among sociologists , geneologists and other individuals who are carrying out various research projects at different levels. The Irish were the first great wave of immigration and it is important that a preliminary data-base of notable people is available. However I do beleive that only "sourced" entries should remain on the list - I take the point that it is possible for an individual to talk about their Irish ancestry yet there may be no "source available on the net - but the source can be a book or other material as long as the details are noted/cited. This list like all wikipedia lists and articles is subject to vandalism, silly and un-substantiated entries but as with all articles and lists is also subject to policing and these entries ultimately are corrected or removed. This list is valuable to other Irish studies including historic events such as the Irish Diaspora and The Irish Fammine. It should not be removed. If teh debate is over the name of the list - I really do not care if it is called "List of Irish Americans" or "List of Irish Americans or Americans of Irish Descent". The list is an excellent first level for research - particulalry around St Patrick's Day that is celebrated World-wide and as such generates numerous articles about "Irish Americans" "Irish Culture" "Famine Descendents" "Irish Actors and muscians" - The Irish hold a unique place in the world in that there is no corner of the world where they did not go and it is also unique that this identity can remain strong after many generations - as stated previously in Ireland many visitors arrive to trace their roots from several generations ago. In talked about in previous discussions on the article talk page, people world-wide but particularly in America can have an Italian, Polish, German, Spanish etc. etc. surname yet claim to be or feel Irish because of a close or remote ancestral connection and this is not only unique but has been acceptable to the Irish who experienced the first "ethnic" cleansing at the hands of a colonial government who did their best to wipe out "Irishness" but rather by doing so only enforced it. Therefore the Irish traditionally held on to their identity as something very precious and whether it is 1 or 10 generations in the past it is as valid to them. The Irish Government has also acknowledged the irish connectiosn throughout the world and has made numrous references to it and the waves of Irish that were forced to leave their country due to opression is as important to the Irish and to world history as is the Holocaust. The list should not be removed. Vono 17:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC) 86.12.253.32 07:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep These lists are useful. Anyone who has an article on Wikipedia, or should do, and is eligible for a given list should be included. Lists are better than categories, because they can be annotated and can have redlinks for people who should have articles but don't yet. And categories have exactly the same problems as lists regarding comprehensiveness and adherence to policy.-- Newport 11:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • I'm torn, leaning Weak keep. Obviously, we CANNOT delete just one of these lists by ethnicity - it needs to be an all or nothing proposition. Lists on Wikipedia are useful if they either (a) provide meaningful information that you can't get out of a category (eg a table like this) or (b) include redlinked elements to assist in the creation of articles. This list contains really only a citation ... so there is no added value from that standpoint for having a list vs a category - the citation could just as easily be in the article itself. It contains very few redlinks ... and really, in the time you take to add someone to the list, you could create a stub for them. So I don't know that these lists really serve any good purpose that couldn't be accomplished by a category. However, because it would be wholly inappropriate to delete them piecemeal, keep. BigDT 13:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment the problem is it is just not clear what can be considered a reliable, reputable, verifiable source that a person is an Irish-American. If someone makes a list and puts it on the net is that a reliable source? If someone says "I'm Irish" on St. Patrick's Day is that a reliable verifiable source that that person is an Irish American? If someone says "I am proud of my Irish heritage" is that? If someone says "I have Irish blood running through my veins" is that? What about "My heart is in Ireland" or "I feel as Irish as can be" or "I consider my Irish heritage a fundemental part of who I am"? All these statements would suggest to me that these people consider themselves Irish Americans, but some people think that only if they say "I'm Irish" on St. Patrick's Day that is enough or some people think only if they say specifically "I am an Irish-American" or are described by someone as exactly that in a reputable reliable verifiable source (what is a reliable source for who and who is not an Irish American again?). Arniep 13:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Arniep, this has been explained to you by several editors who are very familiar with policy. You either have a source saying someone is an Irish-American, or you don't. See List of Welsh Americans for how these lists need to be done. Don't worry, Arnie, "I" isn't too far up from "W" in the alpha-bet and I will get to doing this list in no time. Mad Jack 16:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Please go to Talk:List of Irish American politicians to see a different kind of format for the List of Irish-American politicians. Also note that you guys are saying what is a reliable source for Irish-American. Most people in the Irish-American politician category are of only Irish ancestry with a few exceptions. 75.3.49.50 14:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep - these lists serve an important function, and you can't just delete one while leaving others such as "List of Jamaican Americans" and "List of Cambodian Americans" - Nesher 14:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Do not Delete - Agreed that this list cannot be deleted in isolation - I for one am not concerned with what the verifiable source is other than that somewhere it should be on record that this person has been identified as Irish American either by their own statements or that of others whether it is only on St Patrick's Day or or through continuous identification is irrelevant - most well known historic figures or celebrities have family ancestry included in their biographies. The list provides that initial starting point that is key for research allowing the researcher to make the determination if tehy wish to pursue further detail and also it serves to encourage stubs and articles. I think that identity is a very personal thing and open to individual interpretation which is why there needs to be a minimum requirement for inclusion otherwise names are simply added because they "sound" Irish or maliciously to vandalise the list for some personal agenda also names can be removed for personal agendas - for instance say Robert De Niro or Liza Minnelli - both have documentable Irish ancestry and both have spoken about it in some form over their long careers, yet someone uninformed may determine that because their names are Italian in origin they do not belong on the list of Irish Americans or similarly that because of irish ancestry do not belong on a list of Italian Americans (of course they belong on both) or it could be that individuals are simply "portective" of their celebrity and want exclusive ownership by their (the editor's) chosen ethnic identity. Reliable citations avoid this for accuracy and research. Vono 17:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep I find lists like this useful.-- Runcorn 19:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment If these lists are going to continue to exist, should people such as Maurice Costello be excluded, because I cannot find a source that says specifically that he was an "Irish-American"? He was born to Irish immigrants Thomas Costello and Ellen Fitzgerald in 1877. Yet, I have searched far and wide on Google and I can find no source that says he was specifically an "Irish-American", and, according to some users, this means that he cannot go on the list of Irish-Americans. Arniep 23:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Maybe he didn't consider himself Irish-American. If you dig a little deeper, you can find a few sites that say he was part Spanish. Though those may be incorrect. I am not sure. Mad Jack 23:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Come on, this case is a perfect example of why I am arguing against this list as it stands. He is surely a lot more Irish than a large amount of people currently on the lists of Irish Americans for making some vague statement about Irishness. Would I be permitted to use Maurice Costello as an example of an American who traces their ancestry to Ireland on the Irish American page but not on the Lists of Irish-Americans? Clearly a non sensical situation. Something needs to give. Arniep 23:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Nope, nothing needs to give. You have given no evidence at all that we are "stealing away" Costello's right to be Irish-American. You have no evidence that he considered himself as such, and you can find, so far, no sources that have referred to him as such. If you do, that would be great. Until then, he should be kept off the list. Oh, and I suppose you could say "Costello traces his ancestry to Ireland" on Costello's page and on the Irish American pages, though that would be pointless. Surely some more prominant Irish-Americans can be found to illustrate the main page. No need to use Costello, who we are not even sure about. Mad Jack 23:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
OK fine. Just so it is clear to everyone who wants to keep these lists, we are including people who say "I am Irish" on St Patrick's Day, but excluding the children of Irish immigrants if we can't find a source that says specifically that they are an "Irish-American". Arniep 23:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
What is this St. Patrick's Day thing? I don't think there's a single person sourced to a link where they say "I'm Irish" on St. Patrick's Day (i.e. an article dated on St. Patrick's Day - you get the point). I am also not sure why you are once again inquiring on this, since it's been explained to you so many times, dating even back to the List of British Jews. Mad Jack 23:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
People often say "I am Irish" on St. Patrick's Day when they're drunk, but, according to you, that would be a sufficient source to put someone on the lists. But NO!! Not a source that actually says someone was the child of Irish immigrants. NO NO NO NO!!! Arniep 00:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

For goodness sake, do you think we have cameras trained on every celebrity so we can catch their drunken ramblings on St. Patrick's Day? Honestly, Arnie, if you want to use the "St. Patrick's Day" argument, you're going to have to find a single source linked to here that is even vaguely like that. Mad Jack 00:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

It doesn't matter whether anyone actually is sourced as speaking on St. Patrick's Day. The fact is, if someone is reported as saying "I am Irish" on St. Patrick's Day you will accept that. But not "I am of Irish ancestry" or "I have Irish blood" which probably mean exactly the same thing in that context. And not if we have a source saying a person was the son of Irish immigrantS. NO NO. Even though all those sources accord with the definition of Irish American as an American who traces their ancestry to Ireland. Arniep 00:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Yes, just like the fact that the definition of plagarism matches your opinion that Jones did not commmit it, but yet.... if no sources say that he didn't, you're not allowed to under Wiki policy. Specifically. So I ask you, politely, to stop mentioning this "Defintion", which, besides being ambigious and essentially meaning that there are no non-X Americans out there at all, is explicitly prohibited from being used to match a person to a term, because it is indeed a definition. I also beg you to stop using the St. Patrick's Day "argument", because, as you have been unable to find a single example like that, is moot. Mad Jack 00:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
It's in no way moot. If a person says "I'm Irish" you have decided you will accept that to put them on the list, but not if they say "both of their parents are Irish", or "I am proud of my Irish heritage", all of which are convey the same meaning that the person is an Irish-American in accordance with the definition in major reference works (including Wikipedia) which define an Irish-American as an American who traces their ancestry to Ireland. I want to make it clear that I am in no way arguing for people of distant Irish ancestry who have never muttered one word on their Irish forebear/s to be included, just that we use some common sense and if necessary invoke WP:IGNORE if some users believe that policy may prevent, for example someone of two Irish parents not to be included. Arniep 10:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Sorry, arniep, I can't really say to you much more than has already been said, dating back to the List of British Jews. If you have questions/concerns, you can discuss each name with me individually, though right now only on Welsh Americans and Vietnamese Americans - I take no responsibility for any other pages at this point. I'm doing one a day, so I should get to the Irish one this month. Oh, and as for two Irish parents, it's already been explained to you, by Jayjg I think, what if that person just considers themselves "American"? Mad Jack 15:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Ah, but you'd have to use common sense to realise that would not be appropriate! Sorry! Arniep 11:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep -- BrenDJ 19:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep until there is an overall consensus guideline on lists of ethnic Americans generally. I do think there's a huge difference between Irish-Americans who immigrated from Ireland, Irish-Americans who are children or perhaps grandchildren of immigrants who grew up in a household strongly informed by Irish cutlture, and Irish-Americans whose ancestors happen to have come from Ireland but who have no strong inbred connection to Irish culture. I would prefer to see the latter types not included in these lists. However, its a continuum, so that's difficult. Herostratus 00:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • It's pretty easy. If the source said they are Irish-Americans, they can be on the list. If not, not. You'll find that for the most part the latter types are indeed the ones referred to as such. Mad Jack 02:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Mad - jack yes referring to the latter group mentioned in the penultimate entry above I agree that quite often the fact that an individual has remote Irish ancesrty does not always qualify them for inclusion in that perhaps they do not feel "Irish" However it is also possible for someone to have remote Irish Ancestry (I consider remote 1 great great gandparent on ones side of teh family) and still feel Irish because that identity was preserved within their environment therefore it is difficult to exclude them - I think at the very minimum there should be verifiable evidnece that somone in their ancestral heritage came from Ireland. An example of this is Mohammed Ali - one great grandfather came from Ennis County Clare - does this make him Irish-American? - Superficiously - yes - but does he feel Irish? I don't think so but because of clear lineage he should be on the list. Researchers can determine what entries they wish to pursue - quite often it is those latter people who are the more interesting because their Irishness may not be common knowledge and much of the value these entries have to for instance; journalists or academics doing serious work to use as examples of how the Irish have succeeded in America so someone like Ali presents a more interesting or unique slant around issues such as the Irish Diaspora rather than extolling the virtues of Irish beauty, charm, wit etc etc that often permiate St Patrick's Day journalism we all Know that Maureen O'Hara, Bing Crosby, Judy Garland, Grace Kelly etc etc were Irish Americans and reading it over and over in numerous publications can become boring but the wider issue for the users of thsi list is to lay-out how this remote Irishness has influenced the person's success that is more of a challenge and ultimately more interesting. Of course as with all these type of lists - they are seen as a "badge of honor" for the entrants and can also contribute to study and analysis - e.g how has their Irishness influenced them? Are their ethnic traits or predisposition responsible for their fame - e.g. Maureen O'Hara was/is as famous for being Irish if not more so than as an actress - infact her Irishness may be more well known than her extensive film career, however the ethnic identity in some cases goes hand-in-hand with the accomplishment for which they are noted and could be a career initself for soem people. I don't think the list is about the subjective issues such as "do they consider themselves Irish everyday or just on St Patrick's day" The reality is that identity is not something that you are conscious of every day and usually needs something to trigger it and St Patrick's Day may be the trigger that some people need once a year to remind them - others may be triggered more often and by other stimulants such as a trip to Ireland, or an image, a memory, a song etc but for the most part Irish-American identity is not challenged if the individual can at least elaborate on it e.g. they know where in Ireland they originated - in my experience the only Irish Americans not accpted by Irish born people are those that do not know anything about Ireland, Irish history, Irish culture, Irish language etc etc. They are not concerned with how close or remote the actual blood connection is if the individual can demonstrate an affinity founded on real knowledge and mutual understanding and this usually does not occur unless the individual "feels Irish". There is nothing more offensive that an American claiming to be "oirish" that has no idea about what that means. 145.229.156.40 11:52, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Yes definitely I agree. Some people with remote Irish ancestry feel Irish and refer to themselves as such, or are referred to as such by others, which is perfectly fine for inclusion, and in fact helps weed them out from all the others with the remote ancestry. Mad Jack 15:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was delete - CrazyRougeian talk/ email 00:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Prior speculation on Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

WP is not a crystal ball. This article is not encyclopedic.--May the Force be with you! Shr e shth91 (esperanza elections!) 16:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

And i would like to add that the book has already been released, so the whole page is POINTLESS. ( 11987 20:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)) reply

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The result of the debate was Delete - CrazyRougeian talk/ email 00:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Øyvind Eikrem

This person has a Norwegian PhD in social anthropology, but no citations in the literature, and otherwise no noteworthy contributions towards being listed in Wikipedia. The entry on his thesis supervisor Stein Erik Johansen has also been nominated for deletion (not by me), but he likewise has no citations and little notability. If Stein Erik Johansen is not notable, then this person certainly isn't. Both entries are simple translations from the Norwegian wikipedia by Øyvind Eikrem himself (see no:Øyvind Eikrem and no:Stein Erik Johansen) and Øyvind Eikrem's entry has been proposed for deletion at the Norwegian wikipedia. Janbrogger 14:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Discussion on bias

Some caution seems prudent about possible bias on the part of Janbrogger and his relation to Øyvind Eikrem. Brogger is the son of Jan Brøgger – a Norwegian professor of social anthropology and a clinical psychologist who died in February of this year. Eikrem is also a Norwegian philosopher, clinical psychologist, and social anthropologist. Eikrem has edited the article on the Norwegian Wikipedia about Janbrogger's father (they both have the name "Jan Brøgger") and the corresponding article on English Wikipedia was created by Eikrem.

It should be noted that Eikrem only has two out of a total 24 edits on the Norwegian no:Jan Brøgger article. More importantly, the content of Eikrem's edits introduced undocumented information about Jan Brøgger (sr.) being a controversial figure in Norwegian public discourse. I will take the liberty of translating the paragraph that must have appeared contentious to Jan Brøgger jr. as he proceeded to delete it in consecutive edit citing violation of Wikipedia:Verifiability (the English WP policy guideline as Norwegian WP doesn't currently have this) and WP:NPOV ( Norwegian version):

Apart from his work as professor, Jan C. Brøgger was well-known in public discourse. He often took side asserting unpopular views, and his entire life he polemicized strongly in favor of his views on the role of the family as the supporting institution in society and against authoritarian movements (particularly on the left side of poltics).

It is curious that Jan Christian Brøgger jr. being a physician should happen to step forward to assert a lack of notability warranting the removal from Wikipedia an article about a humanities scholar who just happened to hold the same credentials as his father and who had inserted information about his father in a (Norwegian) Wikipedia article that Brøgger jr. took offense to. __ meco 10:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Response

First, to put it all in perspective, please not that the entry for Stein Erik Johansen, the PhD thesis advisor for Øyvind Eikrem, was nominated independently for removal by a Wikipedia editor who has >5000 edits with an interest in the same fields. After this, I nominated Øyvind Eikrem for deletion. If his thesis advisor is not notable, clearly his never-cited student is not notable.
Now, to bias. The edit given above is completely incorrect. The paragraph above has been retained. The paragraph that I edited out was a different one, and was removed because it was POV and unsourced. Later my edit was commended by a Norwegian social anthropologist and other respondents (see the Norwegian discussion page). In the discussion page, I stated that while the viewpoints were interesting and might have some relation to actual fact, Wikipedia is not the place to start a discussion over the contributions of a deceased researcher, without sources (official Wikipedia policy WP:OR). With sources, it would be a different matter. As a matter of fact, I have found and entered sources for other controversial statements in this biography. I don't object to negative attention, it is just that unsupported personal opinion should not be prominent in a biography (or really any kind of unsourced slant in any direction). The actual paragraph removed was (my translation):
"Brøggers position in Norwegian anthropology was disputed. On the one hand he was given a lot of attention in public, but on the other hand he was not well regarded - at least not within the scholarly community nationally."
I happen to know Øyvind Eikrem because we went to the same school, and thus took an interest. I would not have noticed his entry if he hadn't edited Jan Brøgger's entry on the Norwegian Wikipedia, but that is the way of things. I've proceeded to take up to discussion on the Norwegian Wikipedia signpost the criteria for lexical notability, and a majority of respondents thought that simply a PhD and a clinical degree isn't sufficiently notable - especially without any citations or media attention. Some on the Norwegian Wikipedia hold that being elected to county office or getting a PhD is sufficient for notability, which means >500 new Norwegian PhD entries and 2000 county office entries per year - nearly impossible, but they are a minority. It should be noted that all respondents favored deleting the Norwegian Wikipedia entry on Øyvind Eikrem. If it is deleted there because of no notability, clearly it does not belong here. This nomination for deletion is clearly consistent with the Wikipedia person notability criteria (cant link directly to Notability:People.
I've contributed to some Norwegian and English Wikipedia pages over the last year (within my scientific field or personal interests). The debate between inclusions and deletionists has not yet been concluded. But it is my policy that all articles I contribute to should be properly sourced, and this will be borne out by my contributions. Also note that I do not consider myself notable enough for a Norwegian or English Wikipedia entry, even though I have >10 papers in the international literature and have been cited >60 times internationally, including in the The British Medical Journal and editorial comment in the Quarterly Journal of Medicine, Thorax, European Respiratory Journal, and International Journal of Tuberculosis and Lung Disease. If this entry is retained, perhaps I should reconsider.
I thus stand by my nomination for deletion, and hold that it is unbiased and criterion-based, not based on personal animosity. However, I've come to appreciate the debate between inclusionists and deletionists. WP is not paper, and if there is some support for retaining this entry, by all means do. However, I predict that it is only going to be edited by the author or his friends (probably anonymous edits). Time will show. -- Janbrogger 21:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I rest somewhat assured. I did translate the wrong paragraph, which I'm glad to see has been rectified. However, I would have been even more happy to have seen Janbrogger present a full disclosure at the time of nominating for deletion that this could raise questions regarding his neutral point of view. __ meco 00:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was delete - CrazyRougeian talk/ email 00:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Nebulosity Quotient

Was put up for speedy deletion for having no sources to speak of and apparently being original research. I switched it to PROD, which the creator removed. So now here we are... For the moment, I'm neutral. -- SCZenz 12:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Gulf of Tonkin Incident and Operation Northwoods

Personal essay having no notable relevance either on its own or on related pages. This user had been contributing similar material on other articles, and having been spurned, decided to create his own page to muse. -- TJive 11:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Politics of Oil Nationalization

As the title suggests, this is a personal essay. The user was attempting to insert this same information into the main Chavez article, which User:172 called a "POV soapbox". He was correct, and this page should be removed as well. -- TJive 11:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of Jewish communists

This entry, stated by indefinitely banned trouble-maker JJstroker ( talk · contribs), is inherently problematic. The page will likely attract anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi POV-pushers, who argue that there is some sort of a connection between Communism and Judaism. Moreover, classifying who is a Jew is often a difficult judgment call outside the competence of Wikipedia editors. For example, Karl Marx, who is listed on the page, is a paradigmatic example of the difficulty of determining who is a Jew. Marx’s family converted to Lutheranism; and, later in life, Marx, like many communists, rejected organized religion. Strong delete. 172 | Talk 04:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

*Comment If anyone is as initially confused by Danny's link, it's to a page that makes fun of a genuine(ly appalling) website, namely [1]. If you have a strong stomach, check out the author's comments on 9-11. -- Dweller 10:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC) - reply
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. - CrazyRussian talk/ email 05:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Not a useful list. - Will Beback 05:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. It is impossible to imagine that this will ever turn into an academic, reliable encyclopedia article, especially on any kind of Wiki. RK 17:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - You're very right anti-semites have no business here or anywhere, and therefore your warning is a valuable addition to the pages and talk pages. Not oposing that, the combination of the two subjects (the love-hate-relationship of Communism-and-Judaism and the Jewish communists caught in the middle) remains a very interesting object of study since it is connected to many questions in history and politics; it is just like the similar complicated love-hate-relationship of Judaism-and-Zionism (see Jews against zionism). Why did the people of one of the most backward countries in the world, and certainly the most anti-semite country, chose Trotsky (and other Jews) among their communist leaders? How very different where the personal and political fights of these particular communists against racism from outside, isolation from inside, opposing the zionist racism? Jewish communists have a very interesting history of their own no other Jew or communist has. Rather than deleting this list in order to prevent possible abuse (call it pre-emptive deletion) and thereby also preventing any normal use, I would suggest: (1) to add your warnings to the pages. (2) also to start an article on why it is difficult to determine who is a Jew and who not. How the term "Jew" changed during history from its original religious meaning to a new racial meaning and all the confusion and abuse inbetween? Then a "list of non-Jewish Jews" as illutration? ActiveSelective 06:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • I find the topic somewhat interesting as well, as a historian who is of Jewish background. Still, as Wikipedia:Relevance instructs us, just because a topic is interesting does not mean it is encyclopedic. The object of study you describe is beyond the scope of Wikipedia, as it is not Wikipedia's place to decide on the difficult question of who happens to be a Jew. (Religious affiliation is one criterion, but it does not apply to the bulk of 'Jewish' Communists, who, like Karl Marx, did not practice Judaism.) Thus, I cannot imagine this page continuing to exist within the framework of Wikipedia's content guidelines. 172 | Talk 06:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
      • (1) Well, I've seen many well written articles on problematic subjects. Atheist authors and believers cooperated on the Existence of god article, not deciding whether God exists or not, but displaying the whole spectrum of arguments evenly. With similar caution the different interpretations of the word "Jew" can be described. (2) Also, the list of terrorists is about who is 'generally considered' as such, and the list of humanists is about people who 'self-identify' as such - whether they are or not is thereby left out of the question. The perception of them being so is an important real power in itself. Likewise, Karl Marx is generally considered being 'Jewish' even though he wasn't religious. So, it means we should choose our words carefully here, indeed. We must also reference to the article Who is a Jew?. ActiveSelective 08:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per above.-- Tdxi an g 06:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep - ActiveSelective does make some valid points I'd heard before (not from anti-Semites, which I am not). With reservations because of the obvious target, but would prefer to "be bold" with articles. If the list isn't fleshed out with more substance and discussions of this unique political/religious subset in due time, though, I'd likely change my vote. HumbleGod 06:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom (I like Jesus Christ as the #2 Jewish Communist abakharev 06:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per Jesus and indiscriminate nature of list. What's next - list of redhaired wide receivers? - CrazyRussian talk/ email 07:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. As mentioned, this 'list' was compiled by a previous troublemaker, and is likely just another joke of his. There are only so many Communists in the world and whether or not they are Jewish or are of Jewish ancestry is entirely irrelevant unless they say otherwise. On a more personal note, this strikes me as an attempt to black-list Leon Trotsky, a human being I have much respect for (this comment withstanding bias). Black-Velvet 08:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong delete per nom and indeed everyone else. Surprising this page has lasted this long. David | Talk 08:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete this very clumsily written list. It's in fact a misnomer to say "Jewish communists" as this article implies quite blatantly that it's somehow one's " Jewish-ness" (implying a connection to Judaism as well) that has anything to do with being or becoming a "Jewish communist." This is similar to claims by communists that it is "Jewish capitalists" or "Jewish financiers" who are behind the world's ills. Then there is the claim that there is "Jewish racism" versus the power of "Jewish liberalism". So its "Jewish-this and Jewish-that" and it's all quite meaningless. This madness can go on and on unless it is stopped, and now is as a good a time as any to do so. Perhaps a better title may have been Communists of Jewish descent or The role of Jews in the history of Communism written in a very delicate and professional manner, but as this article stands it is nowhere near that. IZAK 09:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak delete. Very valid topic but very bad form. -- TJive 10:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. As a general principle, we shouldn't be making lists of members of ethnic group-by-ideology. However, per IZAK, I think there would be room in Wikipedia for a careful article along the lines of The Communist Party and African-Americans.-- Pharos 10:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak Keep, per above keeps. ShaunES 10:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC). reply
  • Delete Gilgamesh he 11:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Delete I often ignore articles about Jews when there are similar articles about other groups. There aren't any communist lists focusing on Christians, Muslims, or Buddhists. Obviously another anti-semitic attempt to skew the Wiki against Jews. -- Yodamace1 11:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete POV bait Kuratowski's Ghost 11:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Inherent POV risk, pointless list (an article on Jewish communists would fare much better). Also: why does it presently lists socialists, labour activists, feminists? And what is the point in listing books? JFW |  T@lk 12:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: we already have lists of jewish politicians, so why single out Communism?-- Brownlee 12:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per above. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 12:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. POV and to properties that are about as unrelated as things get. - Mgm| (talk) 12:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete An article explaing the relationship between Jews and Communism (ie zionism etc) is one thing, but a list of Jewish communist has no meaning. Jon513 12:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nomination - these "list of Jewish xxx" have got to go. -- Leifern 12:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per Kuratowski's Ghost -- Ioannes Pragensis 13:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Delete As per most of the above. I'm not sure this deserves inclusion. After all why not include a list of socialist zoroastrians if the above deserves entry. Amists 13:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete it's nearly as hard to decide who's a communist as it is to decide who's a jew! jnothman talk 13:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:WING -- Shirahadasha 14:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Wikipedia need not foster or revive the Jewish-Communist conspiracy fetish. Dauster 15:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Delete I would also oppose a list of Catholic fascists. The conceptual frame for both is one that amplifies historic stereotyping while obscuring encyclopedic content. These--and similar diads involving a religion and an object of scorn--need to be enclosed within broader discussions in order to minimize their use by bigots by placing the discussion in a detailed and nuanced context. This is the approach at Neofascism_and_religion that helped calm down edit wars and exploitation by bigots. In addition, the underlying assumption of the existing entry is that Jews appear to be a biological or genetic concept, rather than a religion and ethnicity with a wide range of forms. Some of the people listed clearly walked away from both the religion and the ethnicity. What is left is the non-existant racial or biological "Jew"--the core concept of Hitler. Wikipedia should avoid taxonomies favored by the Nazis. The page looks just like dozens of others I have studies...on neonazi websites. Same claims. Same list. Same echos.-- Cberlet 16:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I see no point in having a list when the communists in question are described on individual pages. -- Owoc 16:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nomination and jnothman. -- Metropolitan90 16:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete this crap. Antisemites are always trying to ascribe everything evil to Jews, not the least pernicious association of which is this particular one. A study of Jews in the history of communism might be worthwhile, such as the article The role of Jews in the history of Communism that IZAK mentions, but that article ain't this one. The only possible use for this article is if it's gutted and restarted to cover the epithet of Jews as Communists, but that clearly was not the purpose of this article, nor do I see anyone volunteering to write one up...regardless, the present article should not be preserved in the history of such an article should it ever be written. Tom e r talk 16:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Delete per Opabinia regalis and CrazyRussian. Non-encycopedic listcruft that violates WP:POV. Agent 86 17:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. It should be noted that Walter Benjamin, a German-Jewish philosopher, theorized, albeit in very oblique terms, a connection between Dialectical materialism (the philosophical core of Marxism) and Jewish mysticism. However, this list does not explore this issue. As many have pointed out, many of those listed can only be determined as either Jewish or communist loosely, if at all. Moreover, Jesus was not a communist, for much the same reason as why the Sumerians were not Christian: namely, it's utterly anachronistic. Communism specifically stipulates its own emergence in the process of history; therefore it makes little sense to call someone who lived two millenia ago a Communist. -- Ori Livneh ( talk.. contribs) 17:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    Keep, per ActiveSelective's justification. -- Ori Livneh ( talk) 01:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Deleteper nom. -- Alias Flood 18:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Deleteper nom. -- Runcorn 19:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom (with apologies to comrade Jesus) -- IslaySolomon 19:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This just screams POV PLAYGROUND and would take some serious surveillance effort from editors who probably aren't all too interested in keeping the list to not attract all kinds of Wikirabble. ~ trialsanderrors 01:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per Pharos. There's a way to deal with this topic, but a list isn't it. Ziggurat 01:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment I took a look at the article and three questions came to mind. (1.) Are there many lists of communists by ethncity and lists of communists by religion and if so for which ethnicities and religions do such lists exist? (2.) Isn't there a lot of tension between communism (as an ideology) and the sectoralism of non-national identities as well as between communism and religion? (3.) If such tension does exist, how well can this be covered in a list? Regards, gidonb 04:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Good questions. Let me first say that I didn't start the 'article' (it seems to be done by someone with not so best intentions) but I did try to make it into something more decent yesterday. So I might not be able to answer everything as good:
      1. You can type in "american communists" and wikipedia gives you the CPUSA party. You can type in "german communists" and wikipedia gives you SED party. Etcetera. Etcetera. However, when you type in "jewish communists", wikipedia does not give an article about a Jewish communist party. We cannot refer to a Jewish communist party since there existed none (or not for long) in history, so we can and must refer to a list of Jewish individuals (Leon Davidovitsh Bronstein / Leon Trotsky was a very prominent example). (* Comment - Israeli party Hadash made up of the Communist Party of Israel remnant of the Communist Party of Palestine -- TheYmode 04:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC) ) reply
      2. The difficult debate about the definition of "Jew" (religion, ethnicity, race, culture, etc. etc.) is dealt with already in the article Who is a Jew? Therefore this list starts with: This page is a list of people identified as Jews, either by themselves or by others. "Jewishness" has the meanings both of "adherence to the religion of Judaism" and "membership in the ethnic group 'Jews'. People of both groups are listed here. By other criteria, these people may be listed under other nationalities as well. See: Who is a Jew? This warning is copied from other Lists of Jews. See List of Jewish Nobel Prize winners, for example. So Leon Trotsky and Rosa Luxemburg are considered "Jew" because of ancestry.
      3. There are many forms of "communism": it is the vision of an egalitarian society, it is also the communist movement for social change, even distribution of wealth and social security. So communism is not necessarily bad. It is also the good/bad legacy of communist individuals, the party bureaucracy, etc. There are pre-Marx communisms: Primitive communism. There are combinations with religion: Christian communism and Religious communism. So, why would being Jewish (religiously or ethnically) and being communist then be impossible?
      4. Communism has its distinct tactics and strategies against anti-Semitism, through workers unions, and workers revolt, "workers across the world, unite!" etc. However, no other communists but Jewish communists were the direct victims of anti-Semitism. This makes this group especially interesting: 1. no other communist but Jewish communists had the "inside" view of being direct victims, 2. and no other Jew but the communist Jews were trying these communist strategies against anti-Semitism. Their views and position are unique, special, interesting, and valuable. That's why I also added the articles on "The Jewish Question" (the old name for fighting against anti-Semitism) in which they describe their strategies against anti-Semitism. ActiveSelective 08:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
        There is already an article on Jewish Communism, it's just called by its Hebrew name...see kibbutz. Tom e r talk 00:53, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
        You are partly right. The Kibbutz movement was communist, indeed. However, it was only one particular form of communism. The majority of Jewish communists were on odd terms with the Kibbutz commies. They'd rather fight in the country they lived, loved and worked in, than move away into hiding somewhere near Jerusalem. See for example my super hero Marek Edelman: he fought the nazis ( Warsaw Ghetto Rising) and after WWII the Stalinist dictatorship ( Solidarinosc). You see, there is still need for such an article. ActiveSelective 01:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
        I would be inclined to agree with you iff you could show me non-antisemitic sources that demonstrate that there's something about their Jewishness that serves as a source of commonality for Jewish communists. The point is, as others have pointed out here and elsewhere previously, Jewish mensheviks had more in common with other Russian communists (and with the kibbutzniqim) than they did with Marek Edelman and his ilk or Arthur Koestler and his ilk. Tom e r talk 03:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Per (far) above - Seidenstud 06:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Valid topic. I also reject the nom's bizarre speculation regarding neo-nazism and anti-semitism. Those sort of scare tactics have no place on AfD. -- JJay 17:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete strictly on grounds of lack of verification. If sources were added that these people were indeed Jewish and communist, I would opine keep instead. I agree with JJay as well, speculation as to what sort of editors an article will attract is completely irrelevant to an AfD discussion. POV pushing is to be dealt with by editing, not deletion.-- Isotope23 18:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete As per nom, too overly specific, will definately be a troll magnet. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 23:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I'm not convinced this is a useful or verifiable list. There doesn't seem to be any point in connecting the two. -- Aguerriero ( talk) 19:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. If there are lists of other communists by ethnicity, then Jewish shouldn't be the sole exception. I don't think the subject list refers to Judaiam = Jewish religion, but Jewish ethno-centrism within the larger context of the period, and in that context the anti-Russian, anti-czar activities of early Bolsheviks could be explored, and many of the leaders were indeed of Jewish ethnicity. Karl Marx was an ethnic Jew too, was he not? Is there a reason to deny this information from the reader? Yukirat 06:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    For the record, as has been discussed numerous times, " Jewish ethnocentrism" (see also here and background for that here) is an equally offensive epithet favored by antisemites... Tom e r talk 14:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    Jewish is an ethnicity and a religion, it cannot be neither. Thanks. The Bolshevik leaders weren't religious, but they were still ethnically Jewish. It wasn't used an an "epithet". Yukirat 17:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    Their leaders weren't religious, to be certain, and they were ethnically Jewish, and I think it's pretty bizarre that no mention of the fact that what caused them to storm out of the Congress where they became dubbed as "mensheviks" was in response to the excessively antisemitic remarks (which would have made Göbbels proud) made by the "bolsheviks" is never mentioned in either menshevik or bolshevik... That notwithstanding, there are two things you mention here, both of which are easily refutable wrt the usefulness of this category. (1) "Jewish" is both an ethnicity and a religion, to be sure, but that's not really relevant to anything anyone's said here in arguing against the usefulness of this category... the problem is that there is nothing demonstrable about their Jewishness that makes these Communists' Jewishness notable, as such. If it were "ethnicity" that were important, then Karl Marx should be included as in Category:German communists since his family was originally from Germany, Category:Christian communists and/or Category:Lutheran communists since he was raised as a Lutheran Christian and Category:English communists or Category:British communists since he lived most of his life in England and Category:White communists (since he was white). The fact that his father [I've never seen anyone presentation of evidence that his mother was Jewish] is irrelevant since he's [if his mother wasn't Jewish] not Jewish according to halakha, but that notwithstanding, his father's [and even his mother's, if she was Jewish] Jewish ancestry is rendered allthemore irrelevant, at least inasmuch as the merits of this category are concerned, because of his father's and family's conversion to Lutheranism while he was still young (if he was even born yet...our article on him doesn't discuss even when his father converted to Lutheranism), and because at no time in his life is there any record that Marx even once identified himself, even in an effort to openly disparage his "bourgeoisie" ancestry, as "Jewish". On the other point (2), the business about "Jewish ethnocentrism" I was referring to, is the indisputable fact that the phrase "Jewish ethnocentrism" is used almost exclusively as an epithet by antisemites. The assertion of "ethnocentrism", vis-à-vis the Jews, generally is tangled up in a grotesquely mangled misperception about the meaning of " Jews as a chosen people", which always ends up coming out as an indictment against the Jews of such "crimes" as "exclusivity", "aloofness", "superiority-complex", etc. [which generally describe the claimants of "ethnocentrism" far better than they've ever described Jews...but when these people suffer from a severe inferiority complex coupled with poor education, there's no accounting for the illogic they'll come up with to support their conspiracy theories...] That notwithstanding, the assertion that it was "Jewish ethno-centrism" that made communism attractive or naturally compatible with Judaism as you imply, is a non-sequitur on two fronts...not only did the early communists-who-happened-to-be-Jews not suffer any sort of "Jewish ethno-centrism", they in fact eschewed any signs of ethno-centrism (and reserved their most venemous vitriol for observant Jews), but also the idea that they had some sort of "Jewish ethno-centrism" is utterly erroneous since, as you yourself acknowledge, they didn't identify with Judaism at all! The only thing that made them Jewish was their ancestry, and that ancestry played no significant rôle whatsoever in their communist ideology. TIA. Tom e r talk 09:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
>> Yukarit, the supposed "ethnocentrism" is nonsensical and racist. You neither listened to Tomer an TShilo's arguments, nor read anything about / written by these communists. And I don't think the way you'd like to see this article go, is gonna be my way too.
>> TShilo12, Tomer, Gidonb, et al, even though I think an article on Jewish Communists is legitimate and can be well written, I am very pleased to see the overwhelming number of people voting 'delete' here. It shows that editors are vigilent against any possible anti-Semitism. Although it is blocking the article, the knee-jerk automatism ("Jewish? Communism? Oh no, it must be anti-Semitism!") is a good first reaction. But think about it twice: Yes, the combination 'Jew' and 'Communism' has been abused many times by anti-Semites, but does that mean we need to give in to their nasty POV?
Communists were internationalists calling for workers of all backgrounds to unite against an economical system of exploitation -- an international workers victory. They were not "anti-Russian", not "Jewish ethnocentrist", nor "anti-Semite". Just like the French non-Jewish communist Emile Zola was one of the few to defend Alfred Dreyfus, so were the Russian communists defending Jewish and Christian minorities against the Tsarist pogroms. In the most anti-Semite country in the world, the Russian communist movement voted (among others) for Jews to lead them.
However, communism has a different side too. There is a difficulty with the word 'communism' which is almost analogous to the difficulty of the word 'Jewish'. In history new meanings have been added and now there are several communisms like there are several ways of being considered 'Jewish'. The name has been long abused by Stalinist powers for the exact opposite: anti-internationalism (because of economic competition with foreign economies), anti-worker (because of exploitation of the working class), anti-Semite (in order to divert attention). To put it plainly: Stalinism is anti-communism. That's why he had Trotsky, Old Bolsheviks (of whom many were Jews) and their followers killed in The Great Purge (the Stalinist Counter-Revolution). The whole sharade was wrapped in red banners and portraits of Marx, but Marx, communism and Communist Jews obviously had nothing to do with that kind of 'communism'.
Again, what legitimizes an article on Jewish Communists is that they were singled out on many occasions by anti-Semites. Because they were singled out so often and so harshly, they had a unique position as Jews among communists and as communists among Jews. They had unique experiences and strategies of fighting against anti-Semitism. Other communists and Jews did not have both. They have written down their valuable lessons (see List). What makes these valuable is not that they were 'religiously Jewish' (most were not), nor that 'race' should somehow be of importance (it should not!). What makes their lives and lessons valuable is that they were forced by the historical circumstances (by anti-Semitism and by social change) to become the unique combination of experiences and to do something about these circumstances. Not the Jewishness-in-itself played a role in becoming communist, but the being a direct victim of anti-Semitism that was haunting your 'Jewishness' was. (We could name it "List of Communists haunted by anti-Semitism because of their ancestry" but that would be a bit strange). It would be a waste to ignore this in an encyclopidia.
Yes, I do also think a longer article "history of Jews and Communism" is better than just a list of individuals and their works. No doubt in my mind this list will be deleted. A massive numbers voted against - that's good and sad at the same time. Still, we have to start somewhere. ActiveSelective 11:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
ActiveSelective: I think you'll find that pretty much everyone who's voted "delete" would be perfectly content to see an article such as Role of Jews in the history of communism or History of Jews and communism. The problem with this article [i.e., this "List of..."] is that, as a list, it makes no room for actual discussion of the rôle Jews played in the development of communist ideologies, nor is there any room for coverage of the fate of Jews living under communist régimes. As I mentioned earlier, there is such a thing as "Jewish communism", and it's covered briefly at kibbutz. As you mention above, Jews (among other groups) suffered horribly under Stalin's "communism"...when you talked about the goal of communism as the deshackling of workers worldwide, that's true, but Stalin's communism wasn't as "anti-communist" as you describe it...instead it was bolshevik philosophy in action (the masses are too dumb to "do communism" themselves), indeed the very philosophy that the mensheviks had so vehemently rejected. Anyways...I think this discussion, if it goes much further, should prolly be moved to the talkpage... Cheers, Tom e r talk 18:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per answers of ActiveSelective above. Yes, he does try to make something out of an extremely problematic (if not bashing) list, but, as his answers illustrate, it is a unique list among among non-national ethnicities and religious groups. It seems unique even among nationalities! Perhaps this is not without reason. A list is not the correct form to deal with the deep conflicts between communism, (non-national) ethnicity and religion. Instead I would recommend a history of Jews and communism article, which would include the intellectual and other contributions to communism, the Jewish and Arab-Jewish communist movements in Israel/Palestine and the long history of Soviet policies and practicies with respect to and against Jews and Judaism. gidonb 10:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Wikipedia needs this like it needs a list of toasters that are available in stainless steel. RedNitrogen 03:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per gidonb. P.S. didn't knew Jesus Christ was a commie... -- TheYmode 04:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, primarily per nom. This is a largely indiscriminate collection of information with an unclear definition of inclusion: Pointing to Who is a Jew? is not helpful for defining who should be included in this list, because, well, its an open question. This list presents a question without an answer to me, which is its fatal problem. Grand master ka 04:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per gidonb. Pecher Talk 14:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or extremely weak merge - Extremely problematic article, possible POV fork, and the content is better discussed in other places. — this is messedr͏̈ocker (talk) 20:45, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete what is this fascination with communism and Jews? List is unhelpfull. Categorise by profession please, not by beliefs or political affiliations (or both like this case). -- Cat out 20:50, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

StealthBot

This user's confirmed sockpuppets have been strike and colored below. Kevin_b_er 01:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was keep. Mailer Diablo 04:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of largest empires

NOTE - at least two users suspect sockpuppetry at play here by the original deletion suggester. Please see the comments below, a checkuser request has been made: Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser. Gsd2000 17:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Sockpuppets per Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/XGustaX are tagged now. XGustaX, FR-Altas, Celto, Forhonor, and IIIV. Kevin_b_er 01:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Welcome to wikipedia. Could you explain exactly what the POV is ? Megapixie 05:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment I have listed the AfD subst tag on the page - this discussion is the second nomination and should be indicated as such. SM247 My Talk 04:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Verification and substantial work was not carried out since last nominated, so throw it in the bin until somebody can revive it properly. SM247 My Talk 04:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Comment: these claims are false. The diff from the end of the last nomination to the start of this one is here. How can you say that "no" verification has been carried out, when in fact the only references in the article were added since the last nomination? How can you say that no "substantial work" has been carried out, when in fact the article was expanded to twenty times its previous size since the last nomination? Please verify your facts before making misleading claims. — Haeleth Talk 17:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete questionable source -- MrDolomite 04:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the article has NOT been abandoned - see the edit history. It does state sources - however they are not good sources - we should leave the {{verify}} tag in place. At least one other article cites the webpage in question Mongol Empire, and the numbers in the linked empire articles which do not cite the webpage appear to match up, suggesting (though not proving) the numbers are taken from a good print source. I don't see how this can be POV - can someone enlighten me/explain ? Sure it needs some work (which appears to be ongoing) - but does it really need to be deleted ? Megapixie 05:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Source is questionable and clearly does not have a NPOV. Author abandoned article and article kills it self.( Celto 05:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)) SOCKPUPPET OF IIIV/ XGustaX reply
Welcome to wikipedia. Would you care to explain what the POV in this article actually is ? Megapixie 05:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Sure, like how the main source is questioned openly to be wrong.POV stands for Point of View.( Celto 05:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)) reply
I think you are confusing WP:NPOV with WP:Verify. An inaccurate source doesn't make it POV - remember wikipedia is about verifability not truth. I agree that the source isn't a good one - but I believe good ones could be found. Megapixie 05:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

//// Pacific PanDeist * 06:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

An article "being interesting", is not a valid reason to keep it. - Mgm| (talk) 12:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, per Pacific PanDeist.-- Tdxi an g 06:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, also per Pacific PanDeist. HumbleGod 06:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep but improve and verify (some current countries are larger than the smallest empire mentioned, thus making e.g. the Belgian "empire" (i.e. Belgium + Democratic Republic of the Congo, Rwanda and Burundi) fit for inclusion). Fram 09:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This article can be improved. It will need a lot of verification, but the fact that there is contention over the sources (read the discussion page) as opposed to a lack of sources shows that it simply needs more work (rather than deletion). Wiki-Ed 09:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep this is just the sort of thing that I like to use wikipedia for. MLA 09:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, and increase sourcings and it'll be a good little article. ShaunES 10:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC). reply
  • Delete as original research, listcruft. also no context. yes, it may be interesting or useful, but it's not encyclopedic. Maybe the Guinness Book of World Records will take it. Tychocat 10:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Comment: Would it be better if sources like this one were used? Fram 11:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Comment No. None of my objections have to do with sourcing. This list could be the most meticulously documented and verified list ever listed, and it would still be a list that exists only for the sake of being a list. I am considering an article to list all the letters in the common english alphabet - each letter is surely notable, interesting, and usable, and therefore, the list must be worthy of inclusion...? I realize irony often doesn't translate in print, please so note. Tychocat 02:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, and improve references and accuracy. Stu ’Bout ye! 11:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, and improve references and accuracy.--Kev62nesl 11:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. This has been pretty much disputed since it's last nomination in January. If the source is not credible, the article should go. We can't keep that verify tag on there indefinitely. I'd be happy if a new article was written using Fram's suggested source. - Mgm| (talk) 12:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, The article can be substantiated, and would be a fine article if sourced. Tdslappy
  • Delete for the source issue. If one found an credible source to cite they can always recreate an article using that source. -- WinHunter ( talk) 14:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Delete, Are you kidding me this article does not have a NPOV and even states "The calculation of the land area of a particular empire is controversial;" but then again he goes against his main source and puts the land area anyway as if it 100 precent certain. ( Forhonor 15:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)) SOCKPUPPET OF IIIV/ XGustaX reply
  • Keep, first user above does not understand what "POV" means - (s)he claimed that the statement 'the British Empire was the world's most extensive empire' constitutes POV. Gsd2000 15:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment, User claims that the whole article has a POV which is true it openly goes against its Main source!
  • Delete, Article clearly has a POV, by questioning its main source! ( XGustaX 16:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)) SOCKPUPPET OF IIIV/ XGustaX reply
  • Comment, FR-Altas, Celto and Forhonor are clearly sockpuppets of IIIV, the original poster. Gsd2000 16:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep. For a change this is a list of the kind that actually belongs in Wikipedia, so the article's active editors should probably be given a chance to clean it up. It appears they have not realised so far that WP:V might lead to an article this poorly cited being deleted. Perhaps this nomination will be the spur they need to get some solid references in there. Let's revisit this in a few months; if it's still not adequately verifiable by then, it should of course be deleted. — Haeleth Talk 17:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Keep. I still fail to see why this article should be deleted. And which part of the article is POV? Perhaps the comments at the beginning, but the actual lists themselves have very little POV in them. Why should we start from scratch if all we need is to improve the sources. Fram has already found us a very good source. All we need to do is implement it into the article. It seems a bit extreme to delete the entire article when all it needs is a little improvement. Jagged 17:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Comment. I've now added that source in the article, and numerous figures from it. This should make the article much more reliable overall, though a few of the figures will still need some more work. Jagged 18:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This article needs a clean-up but it has potential. -- Alias Flood 18:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, the topic is a valid one - and the list is broken out into segments that would seem to eliminate definitional confusion. I don't think there's significant enough problems with the content to warrant a deletion to restart the list. Work it out on the talk page. Kuru talk 19:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep per Alias Flood. KariiঠDeranged Ramblings 19:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Article has potential to be a good group of lists. Verification is important however, and should be a goal in all edits going forward. As nobody owns articles on Wikipedia, abandonment by the original author, if true, is totally irrelevant. Abandonment by the community might be relevant, but the talk page amply demonstrates that is not an issue. And for something like this, where the truth doesn't exactly change every day, community abandonment would not be a big issue. GRBerry 02:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

A Christmas Held Captive

NN in the extreme. Ran for two months in Beverly Hills almost twenty years ago. Googling "A Christmas Held Captive" yielded zero results. —   Music Maker 00:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Subhashchandra Konjengbam

Claimes to be a relatively common name in India. If it were so common, then it would have more hits on the search engines. Maybe there is a misspelling in the name somewhere, because the only web hits are Wikipedia mirrors. -- Dangherous 00:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Robert J. Sherman

NN last scion of notable parantage. Imdb yields one entry under actor instead of producer in one episode of an NN show. Lyricist of A Christmas Held Captive, also afd'ed. Suspect autobio. —   Music Maker 00:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Patrick Anderson, Alexandria attorney

Non-notable. Accomplished attorney, but not notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia by WP:BIO. — Brim 00:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Speedy Delete. Recreated content.-- Kungfu Adam ( talk) 11:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Australian Wrestling League

Non-notable backyard wrestling league. 4 Google hits. Metros232 00:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I've tagged it for speedy deletion as a repost of deleted material ( CSD G4 -- Kevin 09:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. – Avi 15:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Biip

My Norwegian being a bit rusty I'm not able to assess this website but it gets little in the way of Google hits. An unsourced 'fastest growing' doesn't confer notability to me. TerriersFan 00:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep per introduction of WP:RS beyond obits Eluchil404 00:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Brede Arkless

Nothing stands out as exceptionally notable about this rock climber, and WP:NOT a memorial. Suggest deletion. RFerreira 00:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete google search showed obits and wiki mirrors. -- Pboyd04 01:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per the above. Memorials are pretty clearly spelled out in WP:NOT. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 01:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-04 01:24Z
  • Delete per above. -- Captain Disdain 02:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) Keep. Thanks to the excellent edits by trialsanderrors, I feel the article now not only establishes notability but is also properly sourced. Good job! -- Captain Disdain 00:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, Wikipedia is not a memorial. -- Coredesat talk. o.o;; 03:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, Wikipedia is not a memorial.( IIIV 04:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)) reply
  • Delete per above and I might add WP:V or WP:RS for good measure, as there is only an aobituary cited and there only appear to be like sources available. SM247 My Talk 04:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, has no ark. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.81.232 ( talk • contribs)
  • Strong Strong Strong Keep WP:NOT an obituary, but various obituaries from WP:RS confer notability. [7] [8] [9] [10]. Also [11]: Irishwoman Brede Arkless, a mountain guide now living in New Zealand, attempted Everest via the North Col pre-monsoon this year, hoping to be the oldest woman (she is 54) and the first Irish woman to climb Everest. Unfortunately she had to give up at 8500m with severe altitude sickness. Lazy nomination. ~ trialsanderrors 06:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. A notable story.-- Tdxi an g 06:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment There aren't that many articles on her in the major newspapers, but what there is is WP gold: First off is the news from Lochcarron mountain guide Martin Moran, that his five-strong Anglo-Indian expedition succeeded in their attempt to repeat Eric Shipton and Bill Tilman's epic, and nearly fatal, 1934 crossing between the Hindu temples of Badrinath and Kedarnath in the Garhwal region of the Indian Himalaya. Moran, who arrived back in Scotland last weekend, recommended the 14-day crossing as "a good way to lose three-quarters of a stone". He continued: "We were not exactly in prime condition. I had just recovered from injuries sustained falling off my roof, Brede Arkless is in her sixtieth year and John Harvey in his fifty-seventh. That we did succeed was due to good teamwork, enthusiasm and determination for the project, and considerable luck with the weather which stayed good for the crucial col crossing." — The Herald (Glasgow) June 20, 1998. Someone with RfA ambitions should jump on this and turn it into a featured article. ~ trialsanderrors 06:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Just another dead mountaineer. -- GWO
  • Keep - firstly my apologies to the lady for obviously not having done her justice in my original stub. But I would have thought that even your most dismissive posters would have paused for thought when noting that she had an obituary in each of the UKs 'liberal' newspapers. Her fame rests in her success as being the first female alpine guide at a time (late 1960s) when that profession was both _completely_ male dominated, and also dubious of UK mountaineers. Her dedication in the 70s to the developing of all-female mountaineering was also a very important and pioneering contribution. (Her subsequent contribution to NZ mountaineerng has also been noteworthy, I gather, though largely unrecorded ). She is clearly much more important than say some minor male US-football player, and a failure to recognise this in WP is both blinkered and arguably sexist. Bob aka Linuxlad 10:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep an obituary in The Times, The Guardian and The Independent is a fairly clear sign of nobability. Stu ’Bout ye! 11:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per all the above. Receiving obituaries in such high-profile newspapers indicate this is not just a regular mountaineer. - Mgm| (talk) 12:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The links provided not only demonstrate notability but give us verifiable sources. Exactly what we need. -- kingboyk 12:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep for revelation of new information (Newspaper report links), which was added by Trialsanderrors after this AFD begins. -- WinHunter ( talk) 14:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per above. -- Alias Flood 19:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, seems notable indeed. trialsanderrors has convinced me, and newer edits have helped. HumbleGod 21:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Not notable enough for an encyclopedia. Many obituaries, even in leading newspapers, are about subjects not notable enough for wikipedia Bwithh 21:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per lots of good references. nn Ziggurat 00:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The fact that she was the first female mountain guide makes her notable. Her climbs add to this. The fact there there are articles about people in other sports who are much less notable than her is of course not a good argument but it is true none the less and should give some thought to those who know nothing about moutaineering. As a mountaineer, she is clearly notable. -- Bduke 02:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Kathy Moore

Reads link an ad. "Moore Method Exercise" only gets three google hits, so the person is probably non-notable too. However, this is more difficult to verify with google as Kathy Moore is a quite common name. -- Koffieyahoo 01:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep. Whilst the case to delete this article hasn't been made. I certainly recommend that the editors consider merging it to a suitable target, or perhaps expanding it to discuss the other school in the area. Any work done in expanding it, in lieu of merging, would also be welcome. -- Tony Sidaway 21:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply

West Point Elementary School (Pennsylvania)

Notability in question (West Point serves approximately 250 students) -- NMChico24 01:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

* comment. The problem with merging schools into some local government/administrative department is that the essence of the school, it's huge life-long impact on pupils, becomes subsumed into a bureaucracy. Would you suggest, for example, that the achievements of Olympic athletes, should be covered by an article on the file-keeping abilities of the International Olympic Committee ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markb ( talk • contribs) 21:36, 5 July 2006
  • Comment - How does one encyclopedically explain the essence of an elementary school? I mean, honestly, what can an elementary school article ever be but a list of teachers, the school mascot (if there is one) and the day the school was founded? What else is there possibly to be said? FCYTravis 01:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • A few elementary schools are certainly notable. Froebel's original kindergarten (which literally included a garden... there I've seen cute pictures of little German kids working in it), the original Montessori schools, Summerhill. These would be encyclopedically explained by reference to the unique, pioneering and controversial educational philosophies of their founders. It is very unlikely that West Point Elementary School falls in this category. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. There are a number of elementary schools by this name and it is completely reasonable that someone would expect Wikipedia, the sum of human knowledge, to document them. Verifiability issues within the article have already been addressed and resolved. Silensor 21:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Actually, "the sum of human knowledge" is Britannica's slogan. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Is that a fact? "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." --Jimmy Wales Silensor 02:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Boston Daily Globe, Jan 25, 1903, p. 34
Yes, it's a fact. They've been using it in various forms for at least a century. AFAIK it's not trademarked or anything. I don't believe for a microsecond that Jimbo is unaware of it. I don't know for sure but I rather think Jimbo expects people to catch the reference. "The sum of human knowledge" means "something sorta-kinda-vaguely-like the Britannica, not some whole totally 'nother thing." Dpbsmith (talk) 03:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
It's a fact that the Britannica used it as a slogan, but I was wrong about Jimbo intentionally referring to it. I emailed him and he said "I had no idea actually. It could perhaps be that I subconsciously got it in that way, of course." He credits the line as you quoted it to Erik Moeller and himself, when preparing his first public talk about Wikipedia in Berlin circa 2003. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. If we are just vote-coiunting, it's 60% delete (15 delets, 10 keeps). However, a number of those keeps are either 'No, it's not a list!', 'I think it's useful', or 'If you have THESE, this should be kept'. None of which are ever great arguments. Most of the deletes refer to either the article being superceded by categories, or it failing WP:NOT. both of which are strong arguments (except two votes). Therefore, delete. If anyone would like a copy placed in their userspace, please let me know - I imagine this could be a useful reference for researching the history of the Sci-Fi channel. Proto/// type 13:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of Sci Fi Channel (United States) programs

Delete - A similar article passed this way recently. These 'Lists of movies shown on' seem to have limited value and are not directly sourced. BlueValour 01:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

MakeRocketGoNow 17:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment:No different. AfD them all, I'll vote. -- RevRagnarok Talk Contrib Reverts 17:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Ditto. -- Captain Disdain 02:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment - For most of them; no different. Look out for more AfDs coming soon to a computer near you. :-) BlueValour 17:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NOT This is also a policy, which means its non-negotiable, this shouldn't even be up for debate.-- Crossmr 19:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. I think this is a useful guide and many of these films already have begun to be importance. Also, if we delete this we should vote to delete ALL of the above pages as well since it is absolutely NO different.-- rxdxt 21:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. Those films that have importance rightly have (or can have) their own article. A list showing what has been shown on which channel is unencyclopaedic and I find it hard to see its use. I will be bringing the others forward (unless they have additional merit) in due course. BlueValour 21:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Categories have a tendancy to get screwed up. This type of list article is found throughout the site. Like others have said, it could be expanded with information, wikified.- Giant89 22:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Information about what network a show is broadcast on is found in the article for each show as it is - the shows are not linked other than by virtue of being broadcast by a particular channel. Lists should really have a decent nexus, not just any particular common characteristic like who has aired them. There will be any number of these lists which repeat-mention popular shows, with only minor variations from list to list as you go from country to country. SM247 My Talk 22:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. ' ( Feeling chatty? ) ( Edits!) 09:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per User:Revragnarok, right down to the willingness to vote the rest of them off the grid too. -- nae'blis (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and Wikify. As others have said above, this has the potential of becoming an important article on the history of Sci-Fi Channel. Even in this form, it is highly informative. It's easy to forget, when turning on Sci-Fi once a week for SG-1 or whatever, how large a role Sci-Fi has played in producing, airing or rerunning science fiction series over the last decade, and how much it has changed over the years. It's also obvious that the list is already too long to fit in the parent article, and categories don't really give the big picture here. To delete this article as listcruft would be shortsighted, a loss and a shame, IMO. Karen 07:57, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep wikify Matthew Fenton ( contribs) 19:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per MakeRocketGoNow Maxamegalon2000 23:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Kf4hzu 05:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was merge and redirect to Adelaide University Sports Association. – Avi 15:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

High Table Cup

A cup between two universities was recently deleted so it is hard to make a case for one between colleges of the same university. In any case, the essentials can be added to Adelaide University Sports Association. BlueValour 02:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Mortal Monday

I don't see how how one aspect of the marketing campaign merits its own page, at least not with this little info. There's nothing here that can't be covered on the Mortal Kombat page. Ace of Sevens 02:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Westcoasanostra

This is not a notable release; hasn't charted, not on a major label. It is a mixtape, which is self-produced and released. It is advertising, as it includes a link to order it online. Mikeblas 02:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Don't Delete. I needed a tracklist for this CD, and I found it useful.

The similar Mix tapes Young Boss (Volume 1) and Young Boss (Volume 2) have now been added to to this discussion. - Mgm| (talk) 09:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. There's no way this article on a term that's "starting to spread" is going to be kept. Vegetarians can now relax. :P Kimchi.sg 08:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Meatitarians

Meatitarians are people who it [sic] only/mainly meat. Neologism / made up in school one day nonsense. Sorry to bother you with this but an established editor removed the speedy tag. -- RHaworth 02:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Note sorry, its not patent nonsense, so I've removed the speedy tag. However...
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The result of the nomination was merge and redirect to Linkin Park Underground. – Avi 15:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

LP Underground 2.0 EP

Fanpage listcruft, needs redirect to Linkin Park Underground Zos 02:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was merge and redirect to Linkin Park Underground. – Avi 15:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

LP Underground 3.0 EP

Fanpage listcruft, redirect to Linkin Park Underground Zos 02:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was merge and redirect to Linkin Park Underground. – Avi 15:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

LP Underground 4.0 EP

Fan page, again, redirect to Linkin Park Underground Zos 02:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Skull and Bones historical connections

I nominated this page for deletion a month ago; the discussion terminated in no consensus. As before, with minor changes marked:

  1. The length of this article (approx. 250 241 kb) is unacceptable. This is an encyclopedia article, not a book.
  2. The writing style of the entire article is inappropriate. The whole thing is filled with innuendo, speculations, uncited accusations, and gossip.
  3. Finally, and most importantly, virtually nothing is cited. The article makes a number of extraordinary claims about the involvement of the Skull and Bones group in drug dealing, but there are only 20 18 citations in the entire article, most of which are for auxiliary points. To put that in perspective, that's about one citation for each 12 13 kilobytes of text.

One of the serious concerns with the article - the presence of large direct quotations from books and other sources - has been dealt with. However, little else has changed since I first nominated this article for deletion about a month ago. It's quite likely that the sheer size of the article simply makes cleanup an impossible task. Zetawoof( ζ) 03:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

See also: AFD: Skull and Bones and U.S. Education. Another article by the same authors, with many of the same issues. Zetawoof( ζ) 02:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Raincrowd

Vanity page for what seems like a non-notable band. Cheekily, they've also linked to the wikipedia article from their Official Site in place of biography. IslaySolomon 03:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The link from the website is suspicious. Weak Delete since I'm not entirely sure if being an opening act for a couple of notable bands creates notability. But as it appears now, it looks like it fails WP:MUSIC. Yank sox 03:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete per above. I see no substantive assertion of notability. AdamBiswanger1 03:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I think it possibly could be, but it depends on numerous factors like the venue. Yank sox 04:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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Is this reliable? - (March 26, 1998 article in The Business Daily (a national newspaper in the Philippines at that time) by Joel M. Toledo - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raincrowdundertheweather.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C:4D80:A6:F5B5:EA9B:15B0:2A38 ( talk) 06:48, 17 September 2013 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Boogiemonsters

Notability in question. Sending to AFD due to speedy being contested by seasoned contributor. -- NMChico24 03:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Pedro Luis Diaz Lanz

This was up for a CSD, and as an admin, I just wasn't sure if this is really notable enough. So I figure an AfD should determine it better than I can. Not sure exactly how accurate the google test would be considering these events took place 30+ years ago-- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 04:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep According to source, which is a Congressional transcript, he was the head of Castro's airforce. Article could be cleaned up, but notability appears to exist. Yank sox 04:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as Yanksox. The article reads like "Baby's First Book Of Cuban Revolution" though -- IslaySolomon 04:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak Keep Google shows some orignal research and some latin american sites. But I can atleast tell he was a pilot who defected which backs up some of the story. -- Pboyd04 04:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep Appears to have been mentioned in relation to the Kennedy assassination, occupied important position under Castro, was allegedly a contemporary of Lee Harvey Oswald - not sure really but I lean towards keep if verification can be inserted, and the article made up less about non-verifiable information such as what he wanted to do as a boy. SM247 My Talk 04:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete As written, the article seems inappropriate in tone for an encyclopedic article. Take away most of the unverifiable content and we are left with a stub of a man who's only claim to fame is as head of Castro's airforce. Fails to meet WP:BIO. TheRingess 04:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I have cleaned up the article, and made it more of an encylopedic tone. It's not the best, but it is an improvement. Yank sox 04:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Give me a break, I'm 14.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Acsta ( talk • contribs) .

It's not you that's being debated or the quality of the content. It's the notability. Yank sox 04:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was speedy delete per author request. Roy A. A. 01:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Josette Halpert

Non-notable actress. Google finds only 18 hits, the top one for her IMDB bio. Prod removed by article creator without explanation. Delete. Kimchi.sg 04:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

....the main objection is that the subject is not noteworthy. Perhaps with time and a larger resume she'll be of enough note to merit an article here, but at the moment the article just serves as advance publicity for a young actress in a yet-to-be-released film. Props for working to promote your clients, but this isn't the place for promotion. HumbleGod 21:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was speedy delete CSD G7, author's request. Kimchi.sg 08:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Eye4you

Notability in question. Possible advert. -- NMChico24 04:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Cognitive orthogony

Neologism invented for an academic paper. Author of said paper, Stephen Terence Gould, is presumably the author of the article, User:Stgould. Stephen: please mind the notice on the WP editing pages that says "Don't write about yourself". Delete Wile E. Heresiarch 04:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was nomination withdrawn. Mailer Diablo 04:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

.007 (Rudyard Kipling)

No real content. It needs to get expanded ASAP, or it should just go. -- zenohockey 05:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

True, but I figure that if someone took the time to write even a few words and hit enter, there's a chance someone looking at this page will have enough information to make the article worthwhile. If not, well, it's already been there since May 12; a little while longer won't hurt. (A lot longer will, though) -- zenohockey 05:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Obviously now a Strong Keep - at this rate it could make Featured Article before the AfD discussion is done. Yomangani 12:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Awful write-up aside, this isn't one of Kipling's better known stories. It should just go on his page. Ace of Sevens 14:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per Ace of Sevens. Idiotic writeup, minor story. I don't think it should even go on his page though Bwithh 16:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Maybe not the best article around, but as noted above, other Kipling stories have their own articles, and it's more deserving of amn article than all the Pokemon episodes.-- Runcorn 19:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep + expand -- Lukobe 20:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Awful article. Legitimate topic. I've always rather liked this story about anthropomorphized locomotives. Full text online here. There is at least a credible possibility [16] that James Bond's number may in fact have been suggested by the story. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC) P. S. I don't agree with Ace of Sevens that it is "not one of Kipling's better-known stories." Not ultra-famous but hardly obscure. For example, it was chosen as one of fifteen stories for inclusion in a little Signet paperback, "'The Mark of the Beast' and Other Stories." Dpbsmith (talk) 01:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Very strong keep Keeping articles about individual episodes of TV series while deleting articles about stories by Nobel Prize winners makes Wikipedia a laughing stock. Cloachland 02:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
No, having articles whose only content is "A short story by Rudyard Kipling. The .007 is probably meaning caliber-number. This story has no relation to secret agent James Bond (codenamed 007)" makes WP a laughingstock. If it still looks like that after it's been on AfD for a week, there is clearly not enough interest among editors—and thus, presumably, WP readers in general—to make it worthwhile, at least at this time.
Besides, which do you think is more likely to make WP a laughingstock: Good articles on bad (read, "uncultured") topics, or barely readable articles on good topics? -- zenohockey 02:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Amen, brother. Oh, wait... that was a rhetorical question. Well, I guess you'll never know which of your hypothetical opinions I'm agreeing with. You'll just have to guess as to whether I've guessed your true opinion. Dpbsmith (talk) 21:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep If a sentence bothers you, {{sofixit}} applies. I've added a Project Gutenburg link to the talk page. GRBerry 03:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep per zenohockey
  • Strong keep. The article has been expanded since it was nominated, and is now a much less obvious deletion candidate. (Incidentally, I profess bafflement as to why so many people, having expressed dissatisfaction with the old writeup and demonstrated that they knew what was wrong with it, didn't take a moment to fix it themselves. Surely, if you had time to moan about it here...) -- Paul A 07:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment Probably people didn't want to spend time on something that had lukewarm support and might be deleted (that was my reason anyway). Yomangani 09:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
If you're talking about me... well... I can't speak for others but I like to spend a little bit more time when I'm adding material to an article than when I'm commenting on it in an AfD. I shoot from the hip sometimes in an AfD comment, but I try not to when I'm editing an article. I wanted to get my "keep" in early, and I wasn't sure when I'd have time to work on the article. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
And if you're talking about me, who took the time to nominate it...well, that's what I felt like doing. And lo, it led to a vast improvement in the article, didn't it? There's more than one way to bite the bullet. -- zenohockey 03:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep (or if that fails, merge and redirect it to the author article). Story by famous author should be covered especially when it's about antropomorphic locomotives, which don't seem to be his standard fare. I don't see any good reason to delete content about stories by Kipling in particular one that has been cleaned up. BTW, shouldn't this be at .007 without the modifier with a redirect at 007 (Rudyard Kipling) for those who forget the dot? - Mgm| (talk) 10:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Moved. -- zenohockey 04:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I would support withdrawing the nomination—I don't think I can do that unilaterally, but I'll ceremonially vote keep. Great job, everyone. -- zenohockey 04:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was Deleted at authors' request.  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  19:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Brothel (soup kitchen)

I suspect hoax. abakharev 05:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Speedy close, withdrawn, keep - CrazyRussian talk/ email 06:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

J.J. Nissen

Delete per WP:CORP- CrazyRussian talk/ email 05:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep move and expand Eluchil404 00:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Conrad-johnson

Non notable organization. abakharev 05:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete CSD A7, no assertion of notability. Kimchi.sg 08:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Tragedy Styles

Not very notable, doesn't meet WP:BAND, all this info is from a MySpace account, etc... Delete. Wickethewok 05:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Reveal (rapper)

I'm nominating several articles for rappers connected to the AfDed article Poisonous Poets (separately.) This is a rapper whose claim to notability is winning a rap battle in 2000. I did clean up this article and added a source showing that this feat was covered by the BBC, but this still seems like a localized phenomenon and isn't covered by WP:MUSIC. There might be more to this than just that though (though I'm not finding much) so, I'm bringing it here for your consideration. Grand master ka 05:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was redirect to Doctor Emmett Brown. Proto/// type 13:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Doc Brown

I'm nominating several articles for rappers connected to the AfDed article Poisonous Poets (separately.) This person's claim to fame is being a part of one radio show, and being the younger brother of a notable writer. This does not meet WP:MUSIC or WP:BIO, but there may be a lot more to it than this, so I am bringing it here for your consideration. Also, the article needs to be cleaned up a lot if kept. (Analysis of linguistic content? C'mon...) Grand master ka 05:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Unless I'm misunderstanding WP:MUSIC, the artist only needs to meet ONE of the criteria, so whether or not they've released an album thats featured on allmujsic is irrelevent, as they have:

  • Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network. (BBC Radio 1)
  • Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.
  • Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (Hip Hop Connection, Mixmag)
  • Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country
  • Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture.

Poisonous Poets and therefore its members qualify for all of the above, so I fail to see why this article is at all being considered for deletion. Yeanold Viskersenn 16:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Are you sure that membership of a notable group is sufficient for notability? Tim Ivorson 2006-07-04
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The result of the debate was speedy delete for blatant use of Wikipedia as a free webhost forbidden by WP:NOT. No other contributions unrelated to this page. - Mgm| (talk) 10:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Celebere

Does not appear to refer to anything prominent; one person's online username only. Person in question has no bio article on Wikipedia, and Google did not turn up anything of note HumbleGod 05:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was No consensus. Deathphoenix ʕ 17:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Lowkey

I'm nominating several articles for rappers connected to the AfDed article Poisonous Poets (separately.) This one makes a few claims to notability which are not cited, but the three mixtapes and the rest of what's in the article do not meet WP:MUSIC (right now.) If anyone has evidence that this meets that standard, please bring it forward (any British hip-hop fans?) Otherwise, I don't think this belongs here. Grand master ka 05:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Unless I'm misunderstanding WP:MUSIC, the artist only needs to meet ONE of the criteria, so whether or not they've released an album thats featured on allmujsic is irrelevent, as they have:

  • Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network. (BBC Radio 1)
  • Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.
  • Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (Hip Hop Connection, Mixmag)
  • Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country
  • Is frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture.

Lowkey and Poisonous Poets qualify for all of the above, so I fail to see why this article is at all being considered for deletion. Yeanold Viskersenn 16:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • '"Keep"'. Lowkey is without doubt one of the biggest up and coming hip-hop acts in the UK, has had several articles run on him in magazines such as Hip-Hop Connection and Undercover and has received heavy national airplay for the single Mad World (Donnie's Lament) released with fellow Poisonous Poet, Doc Brown. He has also toured nationally (though I'm not sure how to substantiate this).
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Oil Interests and Anglo-American Foreign Policy

I doubt the possibility of an NPOV article at this title. I think the title frames matters in a way that guarantees POV (including simply the phrase "Anglo-American Foreign Policy"). Certainly the current article is highly POV (e.g. "There have been criticisms on the real motives of the United States and Britain to intervene in Iraq.Critics point out that fact that the only Iraqi government ministry that was not attacked was the oil ministry.The involvement of Halliburton in the Iraq has provided credibility to these charges," all this in Wikipedia's narrative voice, without clear citation (there is a lengthy set of ostensible references at the bottom of the article, but the current state of the article does not suggest something that has particularly used these references). I'd love to have someone prove me wrong and bring it toward NPOV—I'd probably settle for a few experienced Wikipedians promising a rescue—but I suspect that anything substantive here should simply be merged elsewhere. Jmabel | Talk 05:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was keep. ( ESkog)( Talk) 16:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Nathan Fake

Article doesn't meet WP:MUSIC, subject has written and complained about inaccuracies and states that he would prefer to see the article deleted. Subjects wishes aside, the article is of poor quality with little chance of improvement and failes to meet our criteria. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 06:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

HDGuard

Appears to be no more than an advertisement for the product. Parent company Eye4you is also being considered for deletion; both pages are primarily the work of the same user HumbleGod 06:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete. An advertisement is not allowed.-- Tdxi an g 07:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as ad. -- Coredesat talk. o.o;; 08:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Has anyone ever even heard of this software? The company is a small business that specialises in redistributing software developed by others. I am unable to find any real info about them, and so their notability is dubious indeed. Let me clarify this. I am able to verify their existence, but I was unable to verify that they have produced or distributed anything of note. -- NMChico24 08:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - Indeed, I am actually employed by the company eye4you, we do distribute HDGuard which in turn is somewhat of a competitor of Deep Freeze (Deep Freeze has little presence in Australia and Europe). I absolutely love wikipedia, and thought it may have been a good idea to post articles on our company which is well known throughout the Australian public/private education arena, however, after reading through the WP articles I do agree that both the HDGuard and eye4you articles should be removed. Notability doubts and corporate _influence_ are present, please delete this article. (Comment also posted on the Deep Freeze (software) AfD dispute.) Nathan.manzi 01:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment, I'm really not seeing the usual media collage and references on the company's site - is there better data in the German version of the page (the company's home langauage)? Any idea of the install base? The Austrailian distributor (eye4you) had mention of some fairly large orders, but any idea outside of that region? Kuru talk 01:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment, RDT supplys the whole of Europe (a bit more information on that on the German site), whereas eye4you supplies Asia Pacific. The German site [23] has some references to the install base. Over 300 schools in New Zealand and 668 schools in Australia are HDGuard users. The company is working on a client base media release. Nathan.manzi 02:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of railroads with a nickname ending in "Road"

It should be fairly obvious. Whenever I see this page, the first thing that comes to mind is: what? Meteshjj 07:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

It should be fairly obvious that this is not an "indiscriminate collection of information", as only a small number of railroads fit the list. -- SPUI ( T - C) 07:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
My point exactly. Why do we need a list with five names of railroads? There's so few there's no point in having this page.-- 69.145.123.171 07:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
For someone who sees that for instance the NYC&StL has called the Nickel Plate Road and wonders how many others are like that. That's why I made it. -- SPUI ( T - C) 07:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete repeated attempts to avoid this process by removing tags. Yes, it's a short list - its also a listcruft list. With no redeeming qualities. Sorry. Bridesmill 07:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Hahaha. I removed the PROD tag because that's how PROD bloody works - if you disagree YOU REMOVE IT. I removed the speedy tag because it was clearly not a speedy. -- SPUI ( T - C) 07:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
If it was a speedy, it would've been speedied. It was prodded instead which is a totally different process. - Mgm| (talk) 10:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Chill. — sjorford ++ 14:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

BFilter

NN proxy Computerjoe 's talk 07:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete nn, a lot of listings on download sites, no independent news articles. Also advertisement. Tychocat 10:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • As the author of this entry I've lost a lot of respect for WP. I was very surprised when I heard about this software a couple of weeks ago that there was no listing on WP. "NN proxy"? "Download sites"? Crystal clear. I worry that some of the regulars here might be a bit thick.
  • Delete please see WP:SOFTWARE while this is not yet policy it will show you the kind of information that we think is needed to be included in Wikipedia, also feel free to comment on the policy as it is still being developed. -- Pboyd04 15:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • From the linked 'policy': "Software is considered to be notable enough for inclusion if ... The software is included in a major operating system distribution such as Fedora Core or Debian". Articles? ONLamp.com: Dru Lavigne. I know, so hard to find with all those "listings on download sites".
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The result of the debate was delete. Kimchi.sg 14:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

MessUnit

Strong Delete Non-notable article, appears to fail WP:WEB also badly writen. Matthew Fenton ( contribs) 07:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment, changed to strong delete as page creator is spamming the link to other articles.-- Andeh 09:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Andeh 14:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Getix Interactive

Fails WP:CORP, vanity/spam, crystal ballish, not written in npov. Created by user Getixinteractive ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Andeh 07:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The site was also built using freewebs.-- Andeh 08:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Global Flying Hospitals

article consist just of advertising Travelbird 07:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Planetside Universe

Contested prod. nn fansite, fails WP:WEB. Alexa rank 482,000. Delete. Oldelpaso 07:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I have already fixed the problem with the site type being "fansite". I have changed it to the proper title of "Gaming". I don't understand why you have requested a deletion after I fixed it.

Credema 09:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The issue is not what Planetside Universe is described as in the article, but rather whether or not Planetside Universe is notable enough to have its own article on Wikipedia. I do not think Planetside Universe meets the criteria in Wikipedia: Notability (web), hence the deletion listing. Oldelpaso 10:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Canyon Creep

Another non-notable band. The CSD was opposed by a usr who claimed 3,500 Google hits, but there are only 500 unique hits, none of them that seem very reputable. A nearly empty VH1 link exists, but I'd say this doesn't meet WP:MUSIC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harro5 ( talk • contribs)

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The result of the nomination was Redirect to MIT Media Lab. Deathphoenix ʕ 16:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

MIT Media Lab Physics and Media

Exactly same material is covered in MIT Media Lab article. Currently there is no need for a separate article. Also the article title is not descriptive. Others considered it redundant as well, in Talk:MIT Media Lab. -- þħɥʂıɕıʄʈʝɘɖı 08:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Commodore Triplets

Fails Verification and Notability, possibly Vanity, with very little Possibility. Te ke 08:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Raquel Evita Saraswati

Notability in question. -- NMChico24 08:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

--the list was published on shiachat.com and has been brought down because of intervention by the authorities. I have heard of it though. --this was an issue in boston, and death threats weren't publicized but sent directly to the women on the list. they actually aren't permitted by authorities to publish them; but the list definitely existed and she was on it.

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Gillam in Heaven

A non-notable web comic written up by Gillam. Pure vanity. -- RHaworth 08:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was keep - Eluchil404 00:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hugh mcmanners

User:Downwards tagged this article as speedy delete with a rationale of "vanity article", but I did not feel it passed CSD A7 since notability was asserted. So, here it is for procedural reasons and I abstain. hateless 08:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Redirect to existence. Computerjoe 's talk 17:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Nonexistence

I'm hesitant to nominate a page that has been around for a long time, but despite its age, it doesn't seem to contain much that is obviously useful. There's no citations, and it looks like it's mainly (perhaps totally) OR and speculation. And while I'm not a philosophy major, it doesn't feel particularly deep to me. Your thoughts please. Regards, Ben Aveling 08:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. — Fire Fox 10:05, 04 July '06

Fried briefs

This has to be a joke, right?? Does it really exist? Jaunio 09:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of Drakengard characters

An anon user User:84.184.85.201 User_talk:84.184.85.201 added an AfD banner to the article List of Drakengard characters but didn't create Articles for deletion/List of Drakengard characters. He or she posted the following message at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/List of Drakengard characters :

Reason for proposed deletion: Serious POV. Wrong information. Not enough information (the main character has less information then many of the minor characters) Information outside of the the article scope (listing of institutions). Gives Wikipedia itself as source. Necessary characters, institutions and concepts can be worked into the main article (they may have been there before someone created this article as an URV, where after it had been deleted). --84.184.85.201 09:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The anon user has also posted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FFXIclopedia (second nomination). I do not take a position yet on this AfD. TruthbringerToronto ( Talk | contribs) 10:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per the anon's nomination. -- Core des at talk. o.o;; 12:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Game cruft. Merge it back to the original article. -- GWO
  • Delete. Additionally I do think, that neither the game nor its characters are notable enought to warrant several articles for it/them. The article itself isn't too large yet and would benefit from a section about the institutions and characters. I do not recommend merge since the list in question is POV in most parts and partially wrong(I'm the anon user in question. I couldn't create this page, that is why I took another recourse. Though I don't know why my comment on the other AfD is relevant?)-- 84.184.85.201 15:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result was Delete per dicussion below, this is non sourcable and keeping it could be seen as "feeding the trolls" - not that DENY applies to the mainspace but I think you know the concept... Tawker 04:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Gay Nigger Association of America

AfDs for this article:

The article does not cite any reliable secondary sources. Note, please don't close this early as we really should get a consensus and consider deleting this article, as it is unsourced. Voortle 15:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Arbitrary section break 1

So far: 14 Keep (discounting one with 8 edits), 38 delete (plus one redirect), 5 comment Please continue below SYSS Mouse 19:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Good thing AfDs aren't based off a vote tally. NeoFreak 20:01, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Arbitrary section break 2

Conflict of interest... see [27]. -- W.marsh 20:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Comparing a fine trolling organization like the GNAA with wothless blogs is like comparing apples and oranges. It doesn't make sense. - Femmina 20:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Keep - I am not a regular wikipedia contributor but I would like my argument to be heard. Most of the dismissals of GNAA on this page are directly antithetical to the very goals and nature of Wikipedia. To suggest that an organization is irrelevent merely because it could only exist within the recesses of the internet is negating everything this site is trying to establish regarding the validity of collectively established information that only exists in a constant flux. The majority of GNAA's activities are often deleted or censored as they are intended to be parasitic or disruptive to the sites they were placed on. As such they may seem to be less prevalent and pervasive than a polling of the internet zeigeist will clearly show that they are. However, GNAA's antics have been mentioned on G4TechTV (though not by name), as well as on major news sites. They are responsible for numerous changes in the 'slashcode' and are certainly as well-known as many of the memes given ample coverage on this site. The offensive nature of this article is not valid grounds for deletion. To assert offensiveness as a grounds for deletion would be admitting that Wikipedia values the taboos and political sensitivities of the minority over the freedom of information.

I would also like to address the dismissal of the previous VFDs. You are allowing Wikipedia to spite itself by argueing that a topic's history on this site is not noteworthy. The number of discussions and VFDs this article has generated SHOULD count for the group's significance. By suggesting that GNAA's contention and considerable debate does not provide notoreity, you are arguing anything documented on Wikipedia that involves the history of Wikipedia or happenings on the site should also be deleted. How many hundreds of references and articles would that negate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.117.181 ( talk • contribs)

  • Delete. Not a single adequate source included or available (and note that not a single one of the citations to third-party sources in the article actually backs up the cited statement). A superb example of Wikipedia's most ingrained systemic bias, the bias towards the inclusion of useless and not-adequately-sourceable information that amuses the denizens of the internet. -- Robth Talk 20:01, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete no sources no Wikipeida article it's that simple. Whisp e ring 20:16, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Neutral Comment (From a non-neutral party) - There are tons of articles that don't have valid sources. See Rob Levin for instance. He's never been named in Time or any newspaper, but that doesn't mean he's not valid. Appearantly, he's even asked for that article to be removed on several occasions, on which it was not. This, along with the votes I've seen today on this page, make me feel as though the entire community of wikipedia (or at least the deleting ones) keep a non-neutral POV. Jmax- 21:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The articles has over 21 references, many of them from blogs and other sources. No reliable second source is not grounds for deletion. This is actually a problem with all the trolling article. It is hard to keep any information about troll groups up because the main wiki which documents is not trusted at all by wikipedia and no one else has stepped up to record the information. Regardless the article is verifiable just by the sheer number of primary sourcesIf that were the case all software aritcles and most anime articles would be deleted because no one talked about them. If you do an alexa search on them or a google search they come up and verifiable. -- TrollHistorian 21:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Existence is not the same as notability nor is it the same as verifying what's in an article. If the article is important to you personally you can copy it and put it in an archive on your userpage.-- T. Anthony 22:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Not notable. I'm antitroll, but who isn't? This article should have been deleted a long time ago. Topses 22:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Keep. I can't see any good reason to delete this article. There is no source problem : I can't find a single statement that can't be easily verified. Seems to me the source problem is used as a false pretext to delete an article on an organization they do not like. The GNAA is well known, for the Slashdot, HP and OS X trolling. It is much more notable than thousand and thousand of smaller organizations in Wikipedia. We should not care about whether we like the topic or not but whether the article is OK, and it obviously is. Manuel Menal 22:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. I'm not neutral, but the article has been around for a long time, and it's survived 17 previous VFDs. It's obvious that the page is mostly vanity drivel, but that can easily be remedied. It should stick around, but it definitely needs pruning. Drano 23:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The GNAA (spit) is about as annoying as an uncreative troll organization can get. They are, nevertheless, notable, even though I rather wish they weren't. -- Victor Lighthill 23:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    On what sources are you basing your assertion of notability? As you know, "notable" in the context of Wikipedia refers to a subject that has garnered enough coverage in reliable sources to produce a verifiable article that's more than a directory listing. How does GNAA demonstrate such notability? - GTBacchus( talk) 01:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. There are more blog articles with less sources all over Wikipedia and they're not getting deleted. There WERE plenty of sources in this article, until someone went (cite) happy again and removed 90% of them. -- timecop 23:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Replying to self, now that I saw the article again, exactly what 'sources' does it lack? There are plenty of references and a number of external links. Sounds like a bad faith/troll nomination to me. -- timecop 23:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
      • GNAA has received a total of zero non-trivial coverage in independent and reliable published sources. Blogs don't count, anonymous postings to message boards don't count, and gnaa.us doesn't count. That's all original research. The fact that the research is done online and can be repeated by any of us does not make it any less original. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
    • Above user is the creator of GNAA. --- RockMFR 23:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Very weak keep. Their name keeps them from being notable in reliable sources, but several of the incidents they have caused that are mentioned in the article are themselves notable pranks. One article is better than separate ones for each of those.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.212.122.142 ( talk • contribs) User's third edit.
  • Strong Keep - There's no reason to delete this. It was decided that it should be kept 17 other times, I say keep it again-- 24.46.154.143 00:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC). reply


Arbitrary section break 3

I, Cacophony, hereby create another arbitrary section break, for reasons which would exist were this section break not arbitrary. cacophony 01:41, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete. No reliable sources. The lack of reliable sources is a symptom of the lack of notability. Unsourced articles about unnotable groups get deleted. Eventually. By an administrator who follows logic rather than tallys "votes". - Nunh-huh 01:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply


  • Instead of expressing my opinion in words, I will say Keep, with major reservations and much work to be done on the article. Resonanteye
    If you don't express your opinion in words, how do we know why you want to keep it? This is not a vote, we are discussing.
  • I believe I just clicked through all the external links on that article that didn't point to gnaa.us or gnaauk.co.uk, which aren't independent sources. I didn't find any non-trivial coverage of GNAA in independent published sources other than personal blogs. There's certainly a lot more content in the article than can be gleaned from the available source material. I would say it's a lot of original research, which has been around for so long because its supporters have been so persistent, and we haven't been strict enough about insisting on verifiability. I suggest we pare the article down to information that can be sourced in reliable secondary sources, and if there's nothing left, delete it. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Yes, notability is not the problem, verfiability is, the folks that want to keep it have yet to show how it meets WP:V. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 01:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
So the question then becomes how to verify a group that no traditional print media can mention by name? That's an interesting question. It almost makes me like the bastards. If it's going to get kept again, this has to be answered with a solution. Resonanteye 01:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
I wouldn't say that no traditional print media can mention it by name. - GTBacchus( talk) 04:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
If it gets kept again, the decision implies that isn't an issue. - Amarkov blah edits 01:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Consensus cannot override policy, WP:V is a policy. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 01:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Yes, which is why a decision to keep would imply that isn't an issue. - Amarkov blah edits 01:30, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
I disagree, a decision to keep does not mean it is verifiable, I cannot image how that logic works. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 02:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
I'd think it would still need sources, and that keeping it would imply a chance to assemble some, not an altogether rousing cheer for the current version (which admittedly could use some help.)

On a side note, I did the Scholar search, and came up with an article by Carlyle, who must have stepped into his time machine that morning. I'm going off line to think about this madness now. Resonanteye 01:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Weakish Delete: I note that somebody mentioned that freedom of speech should be one such reason to prevent this article being deleted, but I must disagree, freedom of speech doesn't extend to keeping articles which for all I now could be total gibberish made up at school some day. I do find the promotion of a group that uses the word 'nigger' quite unpleasant but that's neither here nor there. I don't see why I should bother adding references to articles if totally unreferenced articles will actually be allowed to remain. That said, if it only needs references, I'd leave the article for 7 days and if no sources are added, the page is deleted and protected to prevent recreation in order to prevent a AfD no 19. Kind Regards - Heligoland | Talk | Contribs 01:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as unverifiable per V and RS. Sarah Ewart ( Talk) 02:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, I really don't think they're notable outside of Wikipedia. -- Conti| ✉ 03:25, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply
Evidently you haven't spent much time on Slashdot. Salad Days 04:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Instead of expressing my opinion in words, I will say Keep, with major reservations and much work to be done on the article. Resonanteye

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The result of the debate was speedy delete under criteria G1. David | Talk 09:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Tom Biddigan

I'm not even sure this is a real article, could it be a hoax?? Jaunio 09:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Matt Spokes

Why is he notable?? Anyone know why?? Jaunio 09:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy keep; we shouldn't be nominating stuff on AfD when no-one wants it deleted, just because of what someone suspects might be written in policy somewhere. fuddlemark ( befuddle me!) 11:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Turnbull & Asser

I personally don't believe this page should be deleted. Simply listing here to stop the warring regarding a speedy deletion. Lets get the debate happening. MyNam e IsNotBob 09:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep Its a notable fashion label and I have re written the article. During the time I was writting it however it was deleted and I re made the page and its been nominated again for reposted deleted content which it is not. Woldo 09:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Has to be notable, formed in 1885 and still operating today. Also has over 38,000 google results. MyNam e IsNotBob 10:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy keep as the nomination seems to be some kind of misunderstanding; there appears to be no-one actually advocating the deletion of the article. But why is almost half the content in a "trivia" section? If these thing are significant enough to be mentioned, they should be integrated into the main article text. up+land 10:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Just a note that although I put up the speedy repost tag because the article was deleted previously, I don't particularly think the article should be deleted. But policy is policy, yes? Some citations other than the company website would be useful. Kevin 11:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Found two articles with their name in, one major via google news. [29]-- Andeh 11:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Policy is not policy. Policy is actually a kind of shrew that inhabits the foot of Mount Everest and lives a very sad life providing food for sherpa guides and the mountain-climbing suicides who love them. Like all shrews, Policy is known for its need to be the centre of attention, but we can safely ignore it much of the time — we do what policy says when it's a good idea, not merely for the sake of it. After all, it's only a big rat, when all's said and done. fuddlemark ( befuddle me!) 11:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Cave Clan

original research, apparent use of WP as webhost for advertising this group. PROD removed by anonymous poster without comment. Tychocat 10:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Just for reference, the above comment is by IP 84.70.151.225 and at this point in time the en.Wikipedia dosn't seem to have an editor Gonzoxl5.-- blue 520 12:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Son of twelve

Neologism. No relevant google hits. Also Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. Srikeit ( Talk | Review me!) 10:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Josephine merrick

Thoroughly Non-notable. No relevant google hits. Srikeit ( Talk | Review me!) 10:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

TSG_Partners

Fails WP:CORP, WP:V, WP:NPOV,advertising. Implies it is an investment bank when it isn't. Yomangani 11:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Fantom Janitor

Basically, this originally had some... fanciful tales. It was tagged for speedy, but I didn't think it was incoherent enough, so I prodded it instead for being hoaxy. The current version is better, but doesn't really tell anything much, and it's... something that nets me 14 whole google hits, 8 without dupes. Unverifiable stuff, I say, and just the type of stuff that urban legends are already chock full of. -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 11:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Speedy Delete.-- Kungfu Adam ( talk) 12:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

No Future (Sex Pistols Tribute Band)

CSD A7 deserved and inappropriately removed by article creator. Also meets A3, fails WP:MUSIC, WP:BAND, etc... GRBerry 11:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was hoax. DS 17:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Like a Hobo

Either a mistake, a hoax, or extremely non-notable. The "alternative title" 'Only a Hobo' is an existing song, which has been available officially, and "like a hobo" is part of the lyrics to another Dylan song (Bob Dylan's 115th Dream), which make sit hard to separate potential Google hits for the subject of the article from other, unrelated ones, but even so, at first glance I can't find any references to it. So at least it is unverifiable, which is enough reason for a deletion Fram 11:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Supersqueeze challenge

Utterly non notable (4 distinct Google hits) one-off local promo campaign: page is written more as an advertisement than as an encyclopeid article as well Fram 11:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

David G. Armstrong

Based on the edit history, it seems to fail WP:AUTO; 660 ghits for "David G. Armstrong"&podiatry, so not particularly notable? Neier 11:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Dayfeed

Non notable: entry at Allmusic.com is empty: doesn't match WP:MUSIC, have only some regional importance, only made one EP Fram 12:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Gracenote entry has a record of this group. Nedro 10:27, July 4th 2006 (CST)

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The result of the nomination was keep - the redir doesn't really make sense given Neier's information. ( ESkog)( Talk) 16:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Bertoni, Milano

contains no useful information. -- Jak123 19:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was Delete. Wow, I thought this was an article for a web site on American Eskimos. Deathphoenix ʕ 16:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Eskyworld

Website Advertisment, will never help anyone. Wildwobby 15:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete, was willing to give the article benefit of the doubt, but its author has only edited this page and another which it links to. A number of hits on Google, but nothing too notable, IMO. HumbleGod 17:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. The whole article appears to be an advertisement trying to convince flightsimmers to join a poorly managed, unnotable organization. 45,000 Google hits as opposed to around 300,000 for VATSIM and IVAO. Also read this Canwolf 22:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was Speedily deleted by Brookie.  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  14:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

John O'Malley

Nonsense — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piroroadkill ( talk • contribs) 15:44, 3 July 2006

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The result of the debate was speedy redirect. - Mgm| (talk) 10:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Jurgen Vries

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The result of the debate was speedy redirect — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 00:26Z

Redondo Beach, Washington

This article is on the same topic as Redondo, Des Moines, Washington. I would normally ask for a merge, but there was so little new info in this article that it did not matter. Will an admin please speedy delete? -- Tjss (Talk) 04:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Not a speedy delete candidate. ( Liberatore, 2006). 12:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Shiv Kumar Saroj

  • Delete Listed for deletion for the following reasons. No citation cited. Could not clarify the information with any of the friends from Sri Lanka or India. No valid internet site could be found. Found this article has too little importance to be written in Wikipedia. -- 16[Sechzehn] 22:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Spam Bully

I was trying to clean this article up when another editor, User:MarkGallagher, deleted it speedily with the comment: "not an encyclopaedia article; arguably a copyvio". The deleted version probably was a copyvio and a bad article; the current one is not. I think it passes WP:CORP by virtue of independent coverage, although I hadn't heard of it before. TruthbringerToronto ( Talk | contribs) 08:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. ( ESkog)( Talk) 16:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Discing

Non notable (does it exist?). The word "discing" has many meanings, mainly in farming and with records, but this one seems to be unknown. Not verifiable, so delete... Fram 12:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

That's the problem. I've searched and there are no Internet sites referencing it at all. But then, there are very few sites about waterskiing either. I KNOW it exists; I've gone discing, I've seen other people disc, and I've provided a photo. There just aren't any mainstream sources. 202.72.148.102 05:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
And I was sure I was signed in... Battle Ape 05:37, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was Copyvio. The copyrighted text is still in this article. Deathphoenix ʕ 16:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The result of the nomination was Keep, after I removed the copyvio content. -- Deathphoenix ʕ 16:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

EnterpriseDB

Spam for a software package. Text is mostly copyvio from [32]. Staecker 12:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Strong Keep and cleanup if necessary 788,000 Google hits as well as 17 Google news hits is a pretty strong indicator that this is indeed a noteworthy product. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 12:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Please use your discretion, but Andrew Lenahan's comments should be considered. I do not have any issues whatever be the decision. Nikkhils
  • Keep, but the promotional language needs to be replaced with balanced presentation, objective third-party reviews, etc. Tom Harrison Talk 14:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete there are 563 distinct hits. I am familiar with quite a few Open Source and database products and had never heard of this one. Various claims need substatiation from a source other than their own website and anon wiki editors. Dlyons493 Talk 22:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Someone seems to have already down-toned the contents. Dlyons493, this one is a new kid on the block. Infact the PostgresQL page on Wikipedia, already points to the enterprisedb webpage. Nikkhils
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The result of the debate was Speedily deleted.  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  21:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Xtreme Non-Stop Action Wrestling

NN "backyard wrestling" organization created by some kids. For a sample of their professionalism, check out XNA Battle Royale at youtube. Staecker 12:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Dumelabotswana

non-notable company, advertisement Travelbird 13:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

FileBull

per WP:WEB - an advert for a nn web site Ioannes Pragensis 13:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Tin Hong Chinese Restaurant

probably Non-notable restaurant, should be deleted unless someone can confirm that this place is somehow well known locally Travelbird 13:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

100 Best Companies for Working Mothers

listcruft and not at all encyclopedic hoopydink Conas tá tú? 13:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Merck Veterinary Manual

Advert Ladybirdintheuk 13:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Merck Veterinary Manual is an online reference manual for animal health care. It is published by Merck & Co., Inc. and Merial Limited.
It includes articles on the different organ systems and health issues for many species of animal.
I think this is a genuinely useful site. TruthbringerToronto ( Talk | contribs) 15:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Turkey slap

Nonnotable neologism, apparently has only happened on the Australian version of Big Brother NawlinWiki 13:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep apparently a notable term that has seen use and exposure on television. Also, apparently can be a crime. Seems interesting and worthy of an article. Yank sox 15:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep i had a comment before, but id just like to mention this term isn't native to australia. i spent 6 months in stockholm last year and people there knew what it meant. like the swedes who spoke english. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.228.43.10 ( talk • contribs)
I can understand it being an offensive term, but that itself does not merit deletion. Deletion would have to be judged upon (sigh, I can't believe I am saying this) on whether or not it is a notable form of somekind of sexual assault. There are quite a few of sexual slang terms that exist on Wikipedia that are ptobably a felony or considered immoral. But that exist on here because in someway, shape or form, they are notable. Some examples are: this, this, this, this (which survived AfD twice, and others. So, I don't think how offensive, degrading, or revolting the term is merits deletion in this circumstance. Yank sox 11:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Yeah. Keep it. Encyclopedias should not be self-censoring.

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mango juice talk 16:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

PWI 500

A large list of 15 years worth of 500 wrestlers per year. We don't even have an article like this on the Maxim Hot 100 which I would argue is much more notable than this. Metros232 14:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of Superman arcade and video games

This is a plain list with no article and only duplicates the video games section of Superman in popular culture and Category:Superman arcade and video games. Ace of Sevens 14:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Phoenix Family

Nonnotable teenage aspiring anime artists. NawlinWiki 14:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

NudE (indie band)

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The result of the nomination was delete. ( ESkog)( Talk) 16:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Adarsh Samaj Sahyog Samiti

Multiple requests for notability examples without meaningful result; minimal Google hits (many to link-farms), difficult to verify. Indian langauge searches turn up similiar, minimal results. Rklawton 15:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Weak delete - No claim to notability - variation of spelling of "Sahyog" to "Sahayog" gives 8 more nn-google hits. No luck even with google search on the founder's name. Could be a thinly veiled advert. -- Gurubrahma 17:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, almost a weak delete, but this article's been given enough time to prove its notability, to no avail. HumbleGod 17:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Some of the text is copyvio from [33] . It's not clear whether this article is just an advertisement. Dlyons493 Talk 22:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep - I feel it has potential, but only if someone (preferably the original author) is willing to resolve the criticisms made.--  Tivedshambo ( talk) 13:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - "Delete" because, while this appears to be a worthy organization, Wikipedia's reliability comes first -- notability must be verifiable using credible sources, which we still don't have. For all we really know, this could be some charity scam seeking to defraud donors using the seeming respectability afforded by a Wikipedia article.
I note that the article's creator, Adarshsamaj may also been have editing as 203.101.108.76. If not, I'm dispappointed Adarshsamaj never returned to edit this or anything else on Wikipedia, leaving me feeling this was just another "drive-by vanity submission".
Many thanks to the other editors that tried to give this article a chance.
-- A. B. 16:32, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was keep. Mango juice talk 16:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Bipack

There are no sources to back up this article. All I could find was a company named BiPack. I vote to delete. OSU80 15:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Whilst I have yet to find any sources that actually describe the process explicitly, research turns up enough ancillary material to convince me that there is a cinematographic effect known as bipacking. However, some references to the process ( example) imply that it is an effect performed using an optical printer not an in-camera effect. This research was just cursory. I'm confident that actual books on the art of cinematography will provide better sources. Keep. Uncle G 16:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak keep. Page author insists the method is listed under special effects, which it is not (that I could see), and even the article says it has fallen into disuse. However, a number of Google hits (in film forums mostly) ask questions about the process, so it could conceivably be of some use to film students, etc. HumbleGod 17:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Lack of sources. At most merge this with special effects if the proper sources are listed. mm e inhart 22:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Before the use of digital effects and optical printing, the use of bipacks was a well-known technique used for a number of purposes. As described in this article, it was used for one form of travelling matte. I believe it was also used in some pioneering color processes. The topic is encyclopedic; the actual content of the current article needs sources, but seems reasonable enough as far as it goes. It certainly wasn't made up or anything like that. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC) P. S. Here are some Google Books sources: Hands-on Manual for Cinematographers; By David Samuelson (use for travelling matte); Restoration of Motion Picture Film By Paul Read, Mark-Paul Meyer for a description of the uses of bipacks in early color systems, and mentions "many of these systems used regularly available bipack film stocks made by most large film manufacturers." Cinematography By Peter Ettedgui has a diagram of a bipack. Of the 44 Google Books hits, about half are significant mentions in books about cinematography. Our own article on Technicolor mentions the use of bipacks in Technolor Process 4 from 1934-54. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • That was good research. A couple of those (Reed/Meyer and Samuelson) are worth mentioning in the article. Uncle G 10:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
      • I intend to when I get a Round Tuit. I need to get a somewhat better understanding of the subject before I start writing about it. Not a good understanding, mind you, just a somewhat better understanding than I have now. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per dpbsmith-- Nick Y. 00:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Ernest Aaron Rowe

Non-notable writer whose only claim to fame was a blog he plagiarized for. It appears that he evaded the previous VfD by using meat puppets, and no significant improvement to the article has been made since then. The only references are a Google search, the offline blog for which he plagiarized, and a forum post. 141.117.57.26 15:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Edd Layer

A speedy/hangon/deleted/recreated/speedy/hangon case. Speedied for CSD-A7 lack of notability, and doesn't appear to meet WP:MUSIC guidelines. Some discussion on talk page between author and another editor is of interest (author has tried but apparently failed to find sources for notability - or perhaps failed to understand the purpose of them?). Needs review here rather than a speedy. Technical nomination - no opinion from me. ➨ ЯEDVERS 16:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Michael Fogerty

Contested Speedy. Probable vanity entry. Apparently a 23-year-old who has worked at the Sunday Times for 4 months. No assertion of notability beyond that. Google search returns absolutely nothing. Fan1967 16:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. If anyone wants to consult this for merging into List of Playstation 2 network games, I am willing to undelete to user space. Mango juice talk 16:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of PlayStation 2 network games containing a setup utility

Listcruft that will never be complete, has vague inclusion criteria. Prod removed by anon without explanation. Delete. Kimchi.sg 16:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was critical delete. Mailer Diablo 04:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Critical Times

Non-notable fictional blog, with a confusing article claiming it's been running since 1886. Exasperated Bees 16:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was no consensus. Hard to call, but I count 7 delete and 6 keep, discounting votes from anons/new accounts. I'm going to say that copyvio is not an issue; this edit [36] constitutes a total rewrite, and I'm going to delete the history that goes before that. Mango juice talk 16:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply


James Hyman

A quite astonishing vanity article. As per the article creation notice, which reads "Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Promotional articles about yourself, your friends, your company or products; or articles created as part of a marketing or promotional campaign, may be deleted in accordance with our deletion policies." -- The Anome 16:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment a IMDB entry is NOT proof of notability. The "250 pop videos" claim needs to be sourced and verified. If he mainly acted as a MTV editor for (as he says) "clips" than he is NOT notable like a director would be. Bwithh 16:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I guess it was too hard to see that through all the vanity. :) -- Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 16:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep DO NOT DELETE Don't understand your requests to delete here. This guy is a DJ, presenter, broadcaster etc. as explained in the text, he is cross referenced to another Wiki entry, Aphex Twin 'Come To Daddy'). There are other similar broadcasters not deleted e.g. Karl Pilkington. Disagree too that it fails the WP:BIO - :
"The following types of people may merit their own Wikipedia articles, as there is likely to be a good deal of verifiable information available about them and a good deal of public interest in them.
The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field.
Notability can be determined by:
Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers
A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following
An independent biography
Name recognition — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs)
Let's work on the assumption that you are not James Hyman. Then we should delete this article as a copyright violation, as it is a more-or-less verbatim copy from his home page. Alternatively, if you are, perhaps you should read the banner above the article creation box, which reads:
"Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Promotional articles about yourself, your friends, your company or products; or articles created as part of a marketing or promotional campaign, may be deleted in accordance with our deletion policies."
Which of these two policies would you like us to apply? -- The Anome 16:49, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Oh, and, User:82.27.228.4, I note that you created the link from Come to Daddy that you use to justify the notability of this article. -- The Anome 16:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per nom, unless "250 pop videos" claim can be verified from a reliable source - and if he wasn't simply a MTV clip editor for most of these videos. This man is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo vain and self-promoting, so extra caution in sourcing required. Bwithh 16:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Regarding the "over 250 pop videos": I can't find them on his IMDB entry. [38] Can you provide any evidence for this? -- The Anome 16:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • This is Kate, a fan of James Hyman's. I've e-mailed him and he has no problem with this Wiki page. I would re-iterate that what James Hyman has achieved is valid to list just like other presenters on here who similarly para-phrase their bios e.g. Karl Pilkington, another Xfm DJ like James. Would you like me to re-write James's entry just simplifying it instead of copying his home-page which he has no objection to? Thanks. Also, if you want a link to the videos that he produced/edited/directed, it's: http://www.jameshyman.com/blog/archives/Green%20BandanaProjects.xls Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs) 13:00, 4 July 2006
  • Comment The bulk of the videos/clips on the "Green Bandana Projects" list linked by the User-I-will-be-assuming-for-now-is-a-James-Hyman-fan-named-Kate-and-not-at-all-for-instance-his-personal-assistant-or-indeed-Hyman-himself are listed as remixes/edits for MTV clps or advertising spots. Also, this is not an independently verifiable reliable source Bwithh 17:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete all I can gather is that's he's edited clips of famous people and possibly had brief, tangential interactions with them. Before they were famous. He "has no problems with this Wiki page"? Now there's a shocker. Opabinia regalis 17:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep DO NOT DELETE Hi, this is Kate again, actually, many of those videos were the ACTUAL/ORIGINAL video for the artist in question e.g. Fatboy Slim "Santa Cruz", Prince "Pink Cashmere", Moby "C'Mon On Baby" etc. Check the new Fatboy Slim CD/DVD best of release which has the "Santa Cruz" video on there, directed by James Hyman. I understand you all have to do your jobs round here but I'm only trying to maintain a listing for James + his work!!!! Phew!!! There is this grey area on what's allowed/not allowed/notable. I can give loads of other examples for similar presenters on here which is simply their bio. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs)
Yes... I'm sure you're just trying to do your job too, ahem. Sorry, WP:AGF to myself Bwithh 17:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Kate, are you the Kate mentioned by James Hyman as "team member Kate" in this blog entry, and pictured with him here, by any chance? -- The Anome 17:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I'm sure all James' assistants are his biggest fans too. Bwithh 17:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Um. Maybe we should reconsider all of this. She's hot. Rklawton 17:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Erm. It takes different strokes. Bwithh 17:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment I count about 43 or 44 "original pop videos" listed on the unverified non-independent source, the Green Bandana client list. Also the roles are simply listed as "Production/Direction" for the Green Bandana company - it does not specify what role this exactly was (support for production/direction? assistant producer? amorphous executive producer credit?) or if James Hyman himself was directly involved. But again, this is an unverified non-independent source. Bwithh 17:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Reluctant Keep - He does seem to be notable, in addition to being a self-promoting ass. More on his video work can be found here here. The article needs to be re-worked almost completely though, as right now it stinks of street-teamery and POV Artw 17:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment Okay, I'm ready to believe he was director of a number of music videos, but I am not yet convinved that his track record is of sufficient encyclopedic notability Bwithh 17:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Thank you very much from Kate, an avid listener to his weekly Xfm radio shows not the one in the pictures and admit as the * Reluctant Keep says, I am a bit of a 'street-teamer' I guess but not as simple/strange as Artw. Thank you again.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs) 4, July 2006
May I humbly draw your attention to James' blog entry of October 2005, where he celebrates "our 2nd anniversary together" with one Kate Unger (see linked page). What a remarkable coincidence that our contributor has the same name as James' friend. - The Anome 17:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Ah...hahahahahahahaha.... very good work, Anome!! Budgiekiller 17:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I love their blog. Here's the profoundly disturbing album cover art for James' Tarantino mashup: [39]. I wonder Quentin would think about this? (though I'm surprised his blog has google ads - that's not very hip. Take notes for the team, Kate, take notes!) Bwithh 17:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Since I think we can all agree that this article breaches the "no self promotion" principle, can I suggest that we delete it, and see how long it takes before someone who isn't James, his girlfriend, one of his other friends, co-workers, employees, relatives, or other representatives, takes to create it, backed up by independent, verifiable, sources? -- The Anome 17:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Sounds good to me. Even if Kate above isn't the wife of the uh... Hyman team, she just admitted that she's a "street teamer". I think its possible that this guy is worthy of an article but not in this way. More sources needed imho. Bwithh 17:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
How bizarre! You don't think that entries for loads of other presenters/DJs/broadcasters etc. aren't written by street-teamers, PR companies, fans etc. etc. Weak reasoning!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs) 4, July 2006
This would be the "lots of other people do it" defence, then? -- The Anome 18:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
For the most part, actually, the articles aren't written by paid representatives. And if they are, they are likely to be targetted for scrutiny just as your article is being so here. Bwithh 18:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Fair enough, so are you allowing this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hyman which was not written by me (Kate) but presumably by one of the moderators above? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs) 4, July 2006
By "created by one of the moderators" are you talking about this edit, with edit comment "Hacked away promotional material with a chainsaw."? -- The Anome 18:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Yes, that's the one, hacked away (!) by Artw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs) 4, July 2006
  • Delete, a former low-level MTV executive (as mentioned here) and current XFM DJ doesn't seem notable enough to warrant an article. Of all the "Keep" votes listed, only four or five appear to be unique, the rest being made multiple times by the same users, most of whom are apparently personally tied to the subject. This should be straightforward enough. HumbleGod 18:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
"Executive" is an interesting word. The article seems to suggest that he virtually ran the place. This blog entry mentions that he held a (nonspecific) "powerful position" at MTV Europe. Can anyone tell me what his job title actually was at MTV? -- The Anome 18:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I looked in up on the news and magazine database Factiva, and his highest title appears to have been Director of Dance Programming for MTV Europe. Bwithh 21:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Er, so should we keep this Xfm DJ entry too? Eddy Temple-Morris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.228.4 ( talk • contribs)
Someone has already added an infobox/template asking that very same question. I would assume that page won't last the month. Also, please start signing your comments, all you have to do is add four tildes (~) in a row. HumbleGod 18:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
You add 'em; one of us will follow along and format them for you. Rklawton 19:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Please do not make up a username when signing comments, the edit history gives you away. You can sign up for a username by following the links in the top-right of each page. Proper information on article editing can be found in the Editing Wikipedia section, particularly under "Formatting" and "Sources." HumbleGod 19:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Note: this page was at this point blanked [40] by User:82.27.228.4, who was given a final warning for doing so. -- The Anome 19:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

User has been blocked by an admin. HumbleGod 19:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and Rewrite focus on stuff that matters, like his music video career. Danny Lilithborne 21:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • His Full CV is here. His MTV executive career seems irrelevant for wikipedia. I'm still unconvinced about his music video career being enough for an article. Bwithh 21:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Bwithh you may miss the point here, he's not just got a music video career but seems to have a career as a DJ, on Xfm as well as producing soundtracks for feature films, the IMDB link and worked at MTV, there's plenty worse entries out there, chill! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.108.4.138 ( talk • contribs)
  • Comment - none of which automatically makes him meet WP notability standards, a varied and full life notwithstanding. Yes, there are certainly worse entries out there, and hopefully all of them will make it to this page sometime soon. HumbleGod 23:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - Incidentally, it's intriguing that yet another user with no WP edit history prior to today has managed to stumble onto the site and just happens to have more information about this particular subject (if not more citations). Funny how coincidences work out. HumbleGod 23:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and rewrite I listen to XFM a lot and I'd say that out of the current roster (after the actual celeb DJs) James Hyman is second in notability to Lauren Laverne thanks to his TV and film work. The first version comes over as pretty fanboy/girl (and used too much bold) but as the version currently stands it is reasonable entry - it could still do with some work (there is still information on other TV work that could be extracted for example, as should that info about his CD being one of the top 5 albums of 2004, if it can be confirmed) but he is notable and it'd be a pity if the initial tone of the article distracts from this. ( Emperor 10:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)) reply
The first version was taken directly from his own website, and was posted by User:JamesHyman. You say he is second in notability "after the actual celeb DJs"; this presumably implies that you do not consider him a celebrity? -- The Anome 12:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Thanks for the clarification - as I say the tone was wrong but it had plenty of useful information that can be wrangled into making a decent entry. On the "actual celeb DJ" front I should probably expand the XFM entry to look at the distinction I was trying to make. What I am getting at is that XFM also have DJs who aren't "proper DJs" but are usually already famous in another arena (usually comedians as they come over well on the radio). These have included Ricky Gervais, Jimmy Carr and Adam and Joe. Do I consider him a celebrity? I'm not even sure the term has much meaning these days if you can become a celebrity for frottage on Big Brother. I suppose with that in mind they he probably is but that all rather misses the point I was trying to make. I'd better go and update the XFM entry while this is fresh on my mind. ( Emperor 13:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)) reply
  • Delete NN, seems to be a real working guy in the entertainment industry, but not everyone who's worked a few films and videos is notable. I have non-notable friends that have edited oscar winning films.-- Nick Y. 00:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep

James Hyman is an innovator and educator of the masses. His understanding of music and pop culture is a breath of fresh air. He respects all styles and musical genres. His cult radio show "The Rinse" on XFM showcases groundbreaking new music today. He was responsible for the music sountracks of two British films[Revolver and Kidulthood]for which he won critical acclaim.He is at the forefront of a new generation. -- MaitresseMarlene 21:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep

To start, I'm a little bit shocked at the cattiness of the comments above. Secondly, I don't understand where people are coming from by trying to get this entry deleted. Hyman is a fantastic innovator in music. He doesn't play to a 'set list' which is dictated by a huge radio station (read back on your Peel biographies and his early days, please). A Peel of our day if you will, with his own eclectic taste in music. If you think his biography isn't factual, why not ask him for proof rather than pulling punches at him and making sly person remarks, or comments about his 'hot' assistant? Wiki is not meant to be smut.com.

I refer you back to the court case of Wiki vs Encyclopedia Britannica, and specifically:

For its study, Nature chose articles from both sites in a wide range of topics and sent them to what it called "relevant" field experts for peer review. The experts then compared the competing articles - one from each site on a given topic - side by side but were not told which article came from which site. Nature got back 42 usable reviews from its field of experts.

So where is your consultation with the experts here? It seems that the 'keep' people above know their stuff when it comes to the facts. I'll take their word for it because I don’t have the time to trawl the internet to back them up. However, regardless of ‘fact’ or not, I fail to see why anyone would want to delete the entry of someone who clearly breaks the mould on a musical front. I don't want to go back to the days when Heart FM or Capital Gold was all that the mass British public would (or could) listen to, and you guys are not helping the case here. We're in a completely different era of music - one that one that embraces originality and creativity. Don't try to stomp it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.227.62 ( talk • contribs)

Comment: I know it has rather fallen afoul of the non-promotion angle but I'm sure its not the first time a useful entry has arisen from such activity - the main criteria surely has to be whether the topic is notable enough. I am quite suprised this is an issue (I would have voted for notability on what I knew but reading through the early version of the entry I ran across various other things which I wasn't aware of which would have also counted towards his being notable like headf**k and his directing Fatboy Slim's first video) and things here seem to have got bogged down in claim and counter-claim so I did a bit of digging for information based on the criteria listed in the section on Notability in music: "A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ etc) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:"

  • "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels":
    • The Remix and The Remix 2 for Virgin/EMI
    • Covered for Sony BMG
    • 7 mix CDs including the James Bond one Licensed to Thrill that was in The Telegraph's top 5 CDs of 2004 [41]
  • "Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media":
  • "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable"
  • "Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network" - the following still get played on radio stations like KissFM:

Of course this doesn't include work in other fields (TV for example) but the above should be enough to prove notability within the music field using the criteria as it is currently laid out. ( Emperor 23:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)) reply

  • Keep! When searching for info on mr hyman,i find a bunch of people arguing over wether he's notable??????????

this doesnt surprise me as i hadnt heard of him until a few months ago,but this guy is supernova huge.no matter wether you've heard of him he's been the underlying force that was put in charge of curating the rave movement(so to speak).as a twenty something i'm starting to find all the music i love wouldn't be in the mainstream if he'd failed.(think jacque lu cont or The egg from the french car adds)i dont get london radio but i know the statistics & he's heard by nearly200'000 people every week(2-3% of the london!).i think with a fanbase like that you can call him famous.he's all over nightclub flyers/festival line-ups at the moment,so i started researching how he's contributed to alternative music,& can assure you he IS the new john peel.i think he was even the 1st person to ever air gnarls barkley(months before its release).his position in the british underground scene as a dj means he is realy good friends with some of the biggest names in music from before they were famous(just like john peel was).he's pushed many an artist into the limelight by having a massive influence on what other dj's play(just like john peel).And is in the british media on a monthly basis being interviewed or asked for a whats hot list.i think any directorial work he's done doesn't even need to be brought up.just think of how different pop music is nowadays,it's all beats.without him putting so much effort into making beats cool,getting them on air & in adverts, we'd all still be listening to the spice girls & aqua, condemning breakbeat as something only drug using ravers listen to. vinyl2008

  • Keep

Don't think there's any doubt that this should be kept. What seems to be the problem is Wikipedia's definition of notable. Brian's lippy

  • Keep-with-edits

"street-teamery"? Yes, I get that impression a bit. More extensive an article than I would have expected maybe, but worthy of inclusion. It needs reducing to the core points and more backup for the info about his main works. Can anyone with enough knowledge write an objective version of that? jgbreezer

  • Comment: it seems to me that there might well be some "street-teamery" going on in some of the other recent previous comments, as several of the commenters above appear to have only recently discovered Wikipedia, and some of them even appear to have similar writing styles. -- The Anome 22:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
An even more modest proposal - Art's chainsawing has fashioned a reasonable starting point from which a decent entry could be created. I'd rather not blanket ban people for being passionate about an entry (even if there is a degree of barging through various "ways things are done" - presumably through ignorance rather than... whatever a more sinister motivation may be). Who knows some may be bitten by the Wikipedia bug and go on to contribute in other areas (and the majority of the others will disappear and never be heard from anyway). Whoever its going to be difficult to fashion the best entry possible if there is too much interference (if well meaning) so how about a gentlemen's (and ladies) agreement from those folks not to interfere or we'll revert the article. It should then be possible to build the entry back up piece by piece focusing on the most notable work (DJing, film work, music videos, TV work, etc. - broken down into sections) with each stage getting a thorough factchecking as we go. Its not the fastest way to build an encyclopedic entry but perhaps being too bold is what has brought us to this point in the first place. Just another idea on ways to move this forward. ( Emperor 04:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. I have replaced the overview of rings in the The Legend of Zelda series weapons and items article. If anyone wants to transwiki this, I'm willing to temporarily undelete to userspace. Mango juice talk 16:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Rings (The Legend of Zelda series)

I note this article is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Its a short summary and a list of minor items that was never paticularly important; something I could see as more fitting for gamefaqs (which I've looked into, they posess a few faqs on this that do a much more competent job).

From WP:WWIN:

7. Wikipedia is not a general knowledge base; that is, it is not an indiscriminate collection of items of information. Just because something is a true fact doesn't mean it is suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia. This page lists some specific types of articles and facts which, while they may be 100% true, are not considered encyclopedic.

I interpret this as meaning that every single video game article is not necessary for the encyclopdia. We're already filling up with non-notable articles about individual monsters from Lilo and Stich and the like which would be far better covered in aggregate and with far less nitpicking detail. There's also a master article, The Legend of Zelda series weapons and items, and it might also be more plausible to merge it in there. Ethier Delete or Merge. - Randall Brackett 16:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

This was attempted at a earlier date, but reverted [42]. The reasoning was a classic case of WP:OWN, and according to the editor "...The community had decided to leave the page as it is [43]". - Randall Brackett 17:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I've executed that merge. - Randall Brackett 20:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. I count four for deletion and two making comments suggesting keeping but not actually endorsing it. Mango juice talk 15:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Aurora-con

Ad for a non-notable anime convention that hasn't happened yet. The article has no incoming links and is littered with cleanup tags that have inspired no such thing, unless contesting the prod was cleanup. Opabinia regalis 16:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Someone wrote on the article's discussion page:

This Article should not be deleted. It is a new convention, but those of us the Anchorage area are looking foward to it and updates will come post event. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.178.41.191 ( talk • contribs) .

I nominated an amine article for deletion Kunio Okawara and it got quite a bit of support and even I changed my mind during the discussion. I think this is a new area that many of us don't know about, but it is of interest to many. KarenAnn 18:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment, KarenAnn, the difference between your Ookawara nomination and the Aurora-con nomination is that Ookawara is very notable in Japan, but not as notable here. Aurora-con, however, is in Alaska so it would be easy to prove notability with English sources ( A-Kon and Anime North would be examples of anime conventions that are well known.). I also disagree with the categorization under Japan-related articles because it's only peripherally tied to Japan. -- ColourBurst 21:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Totally nn convention and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball -- IslaySolomon 20:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • As much as I think it's great that Alaska is getting their own anime convention, this one hasn't even happened yet. I think it would be better to wait until after the convention has been held, and then write the article. For this reason, I have to "vote" Delete on this one. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihon jo e 03:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Doesn't matter whether it happens three days or three years after the AfD concludes, this article doesn't deserve to exist yet and needs to serve as an example for other authors content on being presumptuous about the future.  freshofftheufo ΓΛĿЌ  04:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: If it is notable after it occurs, then it should be notable before it occurs. We have a lot of things that haven't occured yet, like future elections. No crytal ball refers to making up info that one couldn't know at the present. If it is Alaska's first anime con, that fact doesn't change if it hasn't happened yet. That being said, I don't know what the notability critera are for cons period, it might very well fail them.-- Rayc 19:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. I'm also changing the dab page into a redirect to the other entry. Mango juice talk 15:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Boyfriend Club (comedy troupe)

Online-only comedy troupe; only 30 unique Ghits when you take out the popular teen book series of the same name. If this is deleted, the dab page for The Boyfriend Club should be deleted also. NawlinWiki 17:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Keep votes are very weak, sadly, and WP:V is non-negotiable. Proto/// type 15:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Aristasia

Aristasia is a fictional world of all females, that is, if notable at all, notable as a BDSM role-playing setting, and is also an anti-feminist group. This article probably should have been deleted almost 2 years ago; See Talk:Aristasia for the VFD debate from September 2004; I count 6 delete vs. 3 cleanup. I did a thorough websearch on Aristasia and found only one thing that looks like a reliable reference: This book apparently discusses Aristasia, but I couldn't determine, online, what it says about it. Otherwise this article cites very unreliable sources: the Aristasia web site and their source text, The Feminine Universe, which is web-published only as far as I can tell, and isn't even complete. The article has two citations that are broken, and the rest are forum postings. There are references to Aristasia in other articles, but they are mainly of a throw-away sort: appearing in a "see also" list, for instance; none have references outside of the Aristasia web site. I had never heard of this topic before I found it via that {{ hoax}} tag, and I apologize if my ignorance offends anyone who does know about this topic... but this article really doesn't conform to WP:V or WP:NPOV at all. I'm an eventualist normally, but this article has been around since Sept. 2004; I think it's better if we delete this if it can't be improved now. Mango juice talk 17:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete As far as I can tell, this is nothing more than an internet community, consisting of a message board, and some sort of virtual reality chatroom. Based on the tiny number of messages on the message board, this community likely consists of one or two dozen people. The website has an alexa ranking of 1,845,845. On the other hand, there is a video link from some unspecified british tv show from 10 years ago about this, at http://aristasia.co.uk/MM1.htm if anyone wants to place some value on that. -- Xyzzyplugh 20:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment Ok, after reading a bit further, this isn't just a web based community, it's run by the woman featured in the video clip I mentioned above, who runs some sort of BDSM club out of her home. So it's a BDSM community taking place inside a house, with a small web based community as well. -- Xyzzyplugh 20:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete not notable, reads like something come up with as an "anti- Gor". The pre-21st century refs smell hoaxy. Danny Lilithborne 21:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day, even if it escalates to an obscure 1950s-themed BDSM/fetish lesbian club that gets a little "news of the weird" tv coverage. Bwithh 22:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Keep I believe there is a misunderstanding of Aristasia. I too have done extensive research. Aristasia does not exist. The article need to be rewritten. It is actually a counter-femist concept which arose in pop culture. Urbandictionary and other websites, also acknowledges the existance of this society as a mythical fastasy of male submission. Its ideology is one that formed from modernization and is very real. Some information on that page is false and need to be edited not deleted. However this article has passed deletion once before and should not be targeted again. Killerhun00 06:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Yes, a concept contained entirely within a website with an alexa ranking of 1,845,845. What makes this notable? -- Xyzzyplugh 12:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete A friend of mine got to actually meet these women who claim to live a "racinated" life. They claim there are several Aristasian households in England and Europe and that they don't allow anything made after 1960 into their house. It turns out there are about four of them, living in two houses, and while they do have a lot of antiques, they also have plenty of contemporary stuff in their houses. They come up with all kinds of excuses for why they make exceptions. Basically, this is their fantasy, not something they actually do. Mrs Baggins — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.188.19.203 ( talk • contribs)
  • Curious lesbian subculture. Keep — Ashley Y 03:59, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom, nn notable.-- John Lake 04:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment How many of the Ghits are due to our page being around for years?-- Cúchullain t/ c 06:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep (having problems highlighting with this keyboard) I recognise this may look hoaxy, but I assure you the movement does exist, and has received some significant media attention in Britain, and published not one but several books. If we deleted it because some US readers have never heard of it this makes Wikipedia US-centric. I could give more detailed citations given time. PatGallacher —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PatGallacher ( talk • contribs) .
No one is disputing that the website exists, or that there are indeed several lesbians living in a house practicing this. If you have evidence pointing to the notability of this topic, if you have reliable sources of information on it, post them here. Merely claiming that they exist doesn't help us. The book, for example, seems to exist only online. If you can point to where it was published in some mainstream way with widespread distribution, please do so. -- Xyzzyplugh 18:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak Keep I've seen stuff with less notability in the wiki, and even surviving AfD. On that basis, and since there seems to be some crosslinking to it, I don't see why it should be removed. -- Svartalf 20:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment I really don't think we should take crosslinking into account here. If this article is on a topic Wikipedia can't realistically include, the crosslinking that does exist is likely the result of the Aristasia article being allowed to exist here for so long (as I pointed out above, it probably should have been deleted after its first VfD). Besides, most of the crosslinking is non-useful; inclusion in see also lists and such. Mango juice talk 05:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Keep the "delete" arguments seem woefully under-informed. The Feminine Universe has been available in book form for over ten years. Several other Aristasian books have been published over the years. Here is a list of three of them on Amazon [47] including Children of the Void - a full length novel about Aristasians in London which is said to be only slightly fictionalised. The list is not complete. It excldes, for example, The Feminine Regime. Britain's Channel 4 did a full-length documentary on Aristasia that made such an impact that there is a Yahoo group (not run by Aristasians) devoted solely to trvia about this one documentary [48]. There were numerous other television apearances. Articles about Aristasia have appeared this year in the Fortean Times and Bizarre Magazine.

Claims that Aristasians do not live according to their own priciples, aside from being irrelevant, are based on a misunderstanding of what those principles are. Aristasians have repeatedly stated that imitating the past is not their aim. Pre-21st-century existence of Aristasia is well documented and many Aristasians live in private households and are not online. The stress on discipline is much less among current Aristasians, though even the previous generation despised BDSM. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.153.88.14 ( talk • contribs) .

  • Comment. The books on Amazon are not actually available through Amazon, but rather are only available through affiliated resellers, which really doesn't mean much. I couldn't locate the publisher. When was the article in Fortean Times? Unfortunately, the article doesn't appear in their online archives, but then, not all articles do, apparently. Mango juice talk 05:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. I believe the books may be out of print, like the Gor books. The point is that they do exist and have had influence. The prices that second-hand copies are going for indicates the strength of demand among a "cult" market. These books are mid-90s (for the time-sceptics) and earlier versions of two of them appeared in paperback editons during the late 80s. There have now been three "generations" of Aristasians. Admittedly the first is not very documented as they didn't publish books or give media interviews, but the second generation certainly seems already to have a history behind it. A number of different Aristasian sites have come and gone over the last ten years, with rather different styles, that certainly seem to have been run and habituated by different groups of people. In other words, a core set of ideas and philosophies has motivated a number of people over likely three decades (they claim four) in a variety of ways. Various spin-offs and quasi-Aristasian groups have sprung up over the years, but there has always been an accepted "official" Aristasian group. Aristasia has decidedly (and by choice) been fairly small and exclusive and existed outside the mainstream, but it does seem to be a distinct minor cultural phenomenon.

Re prehistory: in the early to mid 80s a series of stories about a character called Amelia Bingham appeared in the British lesbian magazine Artemis. These stories have decidedly proto-Aristasian characteristics and were written by one of the first-generation Aristasians. The series has recently been privately published as a "novel" and can be seen here [49]. The introduction (apparently written in the late '80s for an abortive attempt at publication in book-form at that time) throws some light on proto-Aristasians at Oxford in the late '70s/early '80s.

Keep I first encountered Aristasia through an interview on the radio and have read several newspaper and magazine articles relating to it. It is counter-cultural, so you would not expect widespread coverage. It is unusual, well-thought-out and highly literate. The Feminine Universe certainly exists in published form. The Wikipedia article does not come across as particularly partisan.

Comment Based on all debate so far, it's highly likely this article will be kept. The problem I have with this is that the article as it currently stands is entirely unsourced. That is, we have no reliable sources on this. Out of print books by the head of this Aristasia movement/whatever, an online book by the same person, and other text on the woman's website, none of these are reliable sources. I tried to find info online on the channel 4 program on Aristasia, and I did find this: http://members.aol.com/bonfessee/cinema.htm While this source may not be the best either, according to it the channel 4 program was not about Aristasian philosophy, but instead about spanking and other BDSM activities. We seem to have enough info to state that this woman is a dominatrix, I suppose. -- Xyzzyplugh 13:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Keep Eluchil404 00:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Josh Kopelman

Appears to be a very rich guys resume, which at the end of the day is still just a resume. Artw 17:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Discover, disciminate, distill, and disseminate

Essay, not noteworthy, not encyclopedic. Nomination related to Open source intelligence; cf its AfD page -- Ori Livneh ( talk.. contribs) 17:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • I was responding to the request for citation in the origin wikipedia entry. Although my work has been central to the development of OSINT I am trying very hard to avoid citing myself. Also the way the US Institute of Peace posted the piece, there is no easy way to link to the specific page, and rather than expecting people to look over the whole page (remember, someone else asked me to provide the citation), I thought that extracting it and then linking was the way to go. This was a way to illiminate and cite with a link to the US Institute of Peace. IMHO, it is both worthy of distinction and part of the emerging encyclopedic knowledge, but I am new to this, trying to fit in with the culture. I expect to learn more in Boston. Recommend retention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert Steele ( talk • contribs)
  • Delete unless sources are provided to prove its notability, veracity, etc. HumbleGod 19:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as original research / protologism by Mr. Steele; this phrase has all of two Google hits, and the source that is cited is by Mr. Steele himself. Mr. Steele, we value your contributions, but please do read our policies: WP:NOT, WP:NOR, WP:V. Sandstein 21:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - please! I can understand I may have made a mistake with submitting Open source intelligence to AFD, but really, this article is going too far. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Rebecca 12:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was keep (no consensus). Might be a merge candidate though. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Islam and anti-Semitism

This article is a mess. Violates WP:NOR, WP:NPOV. Sources are frequently misquoted. Note there is already an article on Islam and Judaism that covers the interaction of the two faiths and several articles that discuss the treatment of Jews in individual Islamic countries. Delete. Javadane 17:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

*Keep per above. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 14:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

(UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete - non-notable bio. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

John Papazisis

Not notable, and admitted autobiography. DarkAudit 17:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Gatnium

Five hits on Google, all from Wikipedia content. The article doesn't try to set a definition itself, saying the word is "vague", so it isn't elligible for transwiki. Mikeblas 18:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was speedily deleted by Rogerd as CSD G1. DarthVad e r 04:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Mark Fifer

Apparently an article about a high school teacher written by students. After someone posted a db-bio tag, material was added claiming he was an Iraq war reporter, a claim which google does not substantiate. Looks to me like he's just a teacher. Fan-1967 18:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was boldly redirected. Proto/// type 15:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Biological Warfare

NN garage band. Does not meet WP:MUSIC. Can we lose the images, too? Alr 18:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment page was redirected, AfD has now reached moot point. Yank sox 18:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Scot Haney

A US local weather presenter. Was tagged for A7 speedy, but there's a hint of notability in the article so I switched it to PROD. Author removed prod without comment - and the tags asking for a {{wikify}} and a {{catNeeded}}. No extra sources or assertions of notability were supplied, so article now comes here as a matter of course. ➨ ЯEDVERS 18:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete, hard-pressed to see any notability here. Poorly written, awful spelling, and a hint of POV ("best meteorologist"?) HumbleGod 19:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, vanity. — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-04 23:59Z
  • Speedy Delete - I saw no hint of notability - no awards, nothing. Also note that the Original editor has posted the entire news crew for this station. The rest of the crew were speedy deleted. Rklawton 00:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment There is a whole category devoted to weather presenters on Wikipedia [51]. Cursory examination reveals that many of the articles under it are no more notable than this guy. Many articles start out in pretty bad shape and go on to be great articles so I don't think that the bad spelling and writing should be an issue - we can fix that. Its a bit of a concern that the author has been removing the maintainance tags, but they appear to be a newbie - maybe they don't really understand how it works yet? We should probably cut them some slack Mammal4 14:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Helmi Noman

It looks like a vanity page and there's nothing else notable besides receiving a Fulbright prize Janarius 18:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

CDI Computer Dealers Inc

Article reads strongly as advertising. Was prodded, and author removed prod and links, but still shouts out self promotion, so submitting to AfD. Possible copyvio on some of the text from http://www.eschoolnews.com/resources/productnews/prodnews.cfm?sid=397 ~ Matticus78 18:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Comment as a staff member at CDI Computers, my only intention was to bring the company to the light of other users. You are welcome to remove any links, and you are welcome to reword, and edit the page. I was just trying to make a corporate page, just like hmmm IBM, HP, Dell etc, since CDI isn't listed already. I should point out, http://www.cdicomputers.com/overview.asp Please feel free to email me with suggestions on the page. Allan — Preceding unsigned comment added by AllanVS ( talk • contribs)
That's fair enough, but Wikipedia is not an advertising service, and articles must be written in an impartial, neutral manner. IBM, HP, Dell et al have all been written about by third parties in reliable news sources, so there is both neutrality and verifiability to draw upon. If you can rewrite the article in a way that is neutral, and provide links to third-party sources writing about the company, then you have a stronger case for the article being kept. Please read the guidelines in WP:CORP for what Wikipedia considers to be a business or company notable and worthy of an article. ~ Matticus78 19:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
as I said, please feel free to help me. This is my first article, and I'd appreciate help on getting it up to snuff. AllanVS 19:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Okay, I consider myself a fair person, so I've quickly reworked the article to a more neutral tone to give you an idea what is required of a Wikipedia article (to put on my Joe Friday hat for a moment: "Just the facts, ma'am."). There are still problems with it, as marked by the tags showing that the information needs to be confirmed, but see what you think. However, the article still needs to go through the AfD process to decide whether it still meets other criteria on notability and so on. ~ Matticus78 19:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
ok, I'm going to do updates, I've got some more information. The Corporate Structure, is found on the phone extension lists - as of now, this is all I can find. I'll see if I can get my manager (Gal) to put up the structure on the "History" page. I hope he will. If not, I'm going to work on 3rd party resources with the Rotman library in Toronto Canada to back track all info on incorporation etc etc.

Matticus - thank you for your time, effort, and being the only person with a bit of kindness. I hope to have as much info as possibly posted by Thursday or Friday. AllanVS 21:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply


Mikeblas - that's the "helpful" spirit ain't it? Just delete the bloody thing, without trying to fix it. Way to welcome people to the Wiki community. Bloody hell. AllanVS 19:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
There's no need to fly off the handle. As I explained above, the article as it stands does not meet various criteria for a valid Wikipedia article, so it needs to be drawn to the attention of patrollers and admins, not to mention yourself and other Wiki editors. A lot of people try to create articles that advertise themselves, their businesses and so on, mostly just for the publicity, and many of these articles get deleted within minutes. I saw that you were a business of a reasonable size, so didn't just stamp you with a speedy delete tag. You still have several days in the AfD process to rework the article to a more acceptable standard. All it needs is a couple of links to reputable business journals, newspapers, etc. that have written articles about CDI Computer Dealers, and to remove all the "biggest, best, we believe this, we're changing that" kind of language from the article. Give us some figures, some facts, some more verifiable information, and your article stays. I've scoured Google myself, but couldn't locate any relevant information besides links to your websites and press releases and suchlike (press releases are not valid third-party sources, BTW). ~ Matticus78 19:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Fails WP:CORP. No Google results of CDI Computers in anything apart from directories and classifieds. Unless your company has some major press coverage (e.g. Forbes), then pleae don't expect Wikipedia to allow you to continue advertising here. Your attempt at link-spamming [52] earlier doesn't do much for your credibility either. --  Netsnipe   (Talk)  08:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Sam Wheat syndrome

Original research, Google search shows 18 results, all but one are Wikipedia derived. Ckessler 18:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete - interesting idea, but a neologism nonetheless, and not a widespread one at that. HumbleGod 19:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per all above. No evidence that this term is in common use. -- Metropolitan90 20:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as neologism. By the way, I'm not convinced this particular flavour of the phenomenon is a cliché, and I'm not convinced that the examples cited are faithful to the article's definition. Looking at Shakespeare's oeuvre, could we say that the ghost of Hamlet's father or King Macbeth suffered from 'Sam Wheat syndrome?' -- die Baumfabrik 00:22, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists

The article is unencyclopedic and has no precedent, involves original research and is poorly sourced. See talk page.-- Eupator 18:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Delete. Hardly any of that information can be backed-up by a credible source. -- Clevelander 18:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Even if they could, placing people in such a list is simply original research, who should be there or excluded is simply the judgement of the creator of this article. Fad (ix) 19:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete I totally agree, going around fishing murderers from a particular ethnic group, all more unrelated one from the other, like the example of the 16 years old kid is unencyclopedic. First, many of those murders have nothing to do with nationalists, example, Behbud Han Jevanshir killing was an act of vengence. Also, giving such a precendent, any person can decide that any ethnic groups murderers can be classified and an encyclopedic article could be formed out of it. To have such a classification, such an encyclopedic position should exist in the first place. I do not go around and post the list of the thousands of Turkish nationalists who murdered Armenians during World War I to then form an article out of it. It is unencyclopedic. Fad (ix) 19:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment I would like to present my apologies to Gökhan (and to him only) for having drafted such unencyclopedic content. How could I forget (even for a moment) that the angelic Armenian mind and such ghastly acts like politically-motivated assassination could never be associated. I am sorry Gökhan! It was such bizarre points as, some of these murderous political organizations still being active in one way or the other, sometimes under the same name (we can partition the article according to the different organizations, by the way!), some of the assassins having monuments erected to their memory (such as in California, of all places!), an entire industry functioning around propaganda, for what was it again, oh yes! for "vengence", these people killing priests, mayors, diplomats, without mentioning simple folk, for "vengence", the list of victims reads like the United Nations, for "vengence", and during all that time, their country sinking more and more into the mud, no one investing there, except to keep the hate machine alive. And since a hungry chicken will think itself to be in a corn barn, as we say in Turkish, history is built and re-built again to suit present needs. Krikor Zohrab's books become best-sellers in Turkey, and there are Armenians who don't know who Elisha Tourian is (from what I could see from a peek in a chat-site). For a moment I had the impression that it seemed familiar and that there was a sickly pattern, which prompted me to start the draft. I thought a list would do good. I am sorry again! Cretanforever

  • Comment The list you made is inconsistent and incoherent and many of the assassinations range from the 1890s to the latter half of the 20th century. What purpose would that serve to a reader on Wikipedia? to show that Armenians have had a history of assassinating and killing diplomats? What does the Khojaly Massacre have to do with "Assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists"? Again, to establish the jurisprudence that Armenians have always had a knack for indiscriminately killing including that of civilians? I might as well create a "Turkish assassins" article that picks up on every single assassination of a foreign diplomat, citizen, innocent, civilian up to and including to the deeds of the Grey Wolves and Ali Agca.-- MarshallBagramyan 16:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Go ahead! Do it! Assassinations committed by the Grey Wolves! (or Turkish nationalists) Some of which already have distinct articles here to which links can be established ( Bahçelievler Massacre). Include those on foreign diplomats or other foreign nationals or in localities abroad. Including notable ones that have been attempted. You can put a "See also" link to mass-killings of civilians which have occurred in enclaves (or exclaves, regardless:) where they were known to be influent. Ranging from the 1890's. Including non-definite cases for which notable references have been made to them. (like Ahmet Özkan case in Chveneburi article where, despite that article's wording, their implication could not be fully established...although it is reasonably likely) I certainly won't put your list on deletion, but let you develop it. I like lists. Cretanforever
Here's some start-up material. It's in Turkish of course, but I can translate it for you and give more feedback. It seems that a core group of Grey Wolves who lived in Europe as exiles during the military rule in the 80's seriously planned to invade Costa Rica (which does not have an army) and establish a Turkish state there. [53] Cretanforever
Being cynical or sarcastic isen't an argument at all. No one is telling you to not creat pages about certain individuals. Here the question revolve around the article which you have created. Assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists say it all, it is a list of names, and there is no way that from such a subject there could be an encyclopedic article. I don't appreciate your tone, words like 'angelic Armenian mind' evidence(and I hope not) an ulterior motive in creating such an article, which would justify its existance.
Furthermore, what is the relevancy of the monuments erected? The justifications you came up such as industry functioning around propaganda only further convince the community to request its deletion. Fad (ix) 18:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
The entire point is that making such articles is pure folly. I wouldn't make such an article even if I wanted to because its unencylopedic to Wiki's standards not to mention spurous. -- MarshallBagramyan 18:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete -- Davo88 19:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment There is such a concept as ethnic terrorism - there is no question about the veracity of the data, although it is incomplete, many more names can be added. In case of so-called assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists it can be re-phrased as assassinations (inlc. attempted) by Armenian Secret Army of Liberation of Armenia (ASALA, on US State Dept list of terrorist organizations), or Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutsyun party), or Hnchak party, or otherwise "Armenian terrorism". If there can be Islamic terrorists, Irish, Basque or Kurdish terrorists ("nationalists"), Iranian or Syrian state sponsorship of terrorism -- i.e., all pointing to a specific nation or ethnicity -- why can't there be Armenian terrorism or "Assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists"? The latter is actually a less harsh wording. The page should undoubtedly be improved, perhaps rephrase its title -- but removing it completely? It obviously shows a certain pattern, and that pattern has been identified as such by several sources. Also, I've raised a similar question here [54] - there is a page about a certain Lt. Ramil Safarov of Azerbaijani army. Whilst more famous than perhaps any other Azerbaijani Army Lt., at the same time there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of Azerbaijani and Armenian (as well as other) junior officers in any given army who kill, or get killed, committ atrocities or are victims of such. Thus, I raise the question, why should Ramil Safarov have a page in Wikipeda -- he is just one of the victims, who has killed himself and saw killings all around himself coming from a refugee family -- and not Armenian Army Lt-Colonel, much more senior in rank, Pargev Abrahamyan, who also used an axe, but to kill his wife, not enemy combatant? Everyday rapes and murders and other grave crimes occur in both Armenia and Azerbaijan - whilst unfortunate, still, why should they be written about in an encyclopedia? -- AdilBaguirov 13:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
It would help, if you read WP:NOT, which is a policy. I don't think I need to tell you what part is concerned. Fad (ix) 22:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment As I stated above, it would be fairly easy to put separate headings for ASALA, Dashnak and Hunchak actions within the article to make it look more like List of ETA attacks and Chronology of Provisional IRA actions, and I also agree that its main flaw is (and perhaps will always be) incompleteness. I object the WP:NOR relevance here though: Articles may not contain any previously unpublished theories, data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas; or any new analysis or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas that serves to advance a position. All info here has been collected from previously published sources, to which I put direct links. There is no analysis or synthesis, it's a list of events. A killed (or attempted to kill) B at this place and at this date and in this manner. Discussions on phrasing and on deleting an article are distinct exercises. Cretanforever
You may create a list of ASALA attacks, I see no problem there.-- Eupator 14:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I agree. Fad (ix) 22:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Yes, I think they are worth copying in style, tone and nomenclature. However, it may be better to have an article for each of the ASALA/anything else you want to add. Chronology of PIRA actions does not include OIRA, RIRA or INLA ones, nor should it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reply
I'll do that Angus. I changed my vote in that understanding. ASALA acts are already on the article for that organization. They just need to be wikified a bit. Therefore, I will draft something like Acts of assassination by Dashnakists etc. And Elisha Tourian and Moscow Metro Bombing, among others, certainly deserve articles on their own. Cretanforever
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mango juice talk 15:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The Gateway Drug

Fails WP:MUSIC with no releases. Nothing at allmusic.com, can't buy 'em at amazon.com. Searching for "The Gateway Drug" gets lots of hits--for marijuana pages. Filtering to include names of each of the members gets a single hit -- this page -- in most cases. Mikeblas 18:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was withdrawn by nominator. -- Golbez 20:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Van Resistance

This article, like the one on Assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists, is unencyclopedic, has no precedent, and lacks credible sources. -- Clevelander 19:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Article is about (A) an historical event (B) the occurrences of the events are real and the timeline is correct, (D) the people who involve are real people. There are extensive citations, which include: Henry Morgenthau, he devoted a chapter "The Revolution at Van" in his book Ambassador Morgenthau's Story. The official record of provisional government can be found on the website [55]. Article uses direct quotes from Richard G Hovannisian who is a very famous Armenian historian. The article does not contain any ethnic hatred and discrimination. The historical concepts are covered with a neutral point of view; the sentences are neutral and not biased. Battle of Van would be left without a resistance force as without this article there would not be any one against the Ottoman Army in this fight. Please check the picture in the article, which the article tells the story of the people in the picture. Thanks for your concerns and efforts. -- OttomanReference 19:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Weak Keep - I'm reluctant to recommend deletion without knowing more about the period, and there seems to be information of some value in the article. But it needs citations and heavy copy-editing if it's to be kept. HumbleGod 19:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment For now, I will not take position and wait for the evolution of this RfD. I disagree that this cases is like Assassinations committed by Armenian nationalists, the other article can not be encyclopedic ever, because it is not an encyclopedic subject. This on the other hand, severly tainted and misrepresetation of the footnotes, does have some potentional(the subject I mean). I don't know what the community decides in such cases, delete it, work on an OK article, and creat an encyclopedic one? Or keeping the tags about the accuracy etc., untill the article is made encyclopedic. So, I could not tell. The name of the article should probably be changed for 'Van resistance' and having 'Van rebellion' redirected on it. It is either called Van resistance or Van rebellion in published materials, neither revolution or Van Uprising, while sometimes it is called by the second name, but to retrace an element of what happened there rather than the incident. Fad (ix) 19:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Actually, I take this all back. I acted way too hastily and I think the best resolution to this article would be to discuss its problems on its talk page. I apologize to all who have contributed to this article. -- Clevelander 20:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Bushmen Entertainment

NN company, no Google hits, fails WP:CORP. Delete -- Huon 19:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was no consensus. However, I will likely tag this as a copyvio. JYolkowski // talk 00:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

DJ Andre

Non notable, fails WP:BAND with no releases. The guy has won a few awards, but they're from his own website. All the "MOB" awards are from "MixingOnBeat.com", which he runs himself. Mikeblas 19:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment. Looks like much of this text is copyvio from [56]. -- Mikeblas 14:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Do Not Delete I don't see the problem with his site. It's a work in progress. Go learn about the guy. He has been a great DJ and Mentor for many other Jocks. -- Chris_t , 7 July 2006
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The result of the nomination was Keep. This is a perfectly good article containing verifiable information such as the list of writers who have been retained (the BBC-sanctioned publication, Doctor Who Magazine, confirmed this and filming starts in a few weeks), the identity of the new regular companion, and so on. Other claims in the article are easily sourced to the BBC (eg William Shakespeare). The lack of references should be repaired by normal editing--the information is all out there, put out by the BBC, for the most part, on its own website. -- Tony Sidaway 12:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Doctor Who New Series 3

Full of unreferenced, unverifiable claims. We don't need a separate article on a future series of a television program when each episode will eventually have it's own article. All information on individual series is already sufficiently held in List of Doctor Who serials. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. — Fire Fox 19:23, 04 July '06

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. Roy A. A. 19:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

The page was subsequently redirected to Smeg (vulgarism), which seems appropriate enough. Zetawoof( ζ) 01:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Smegging

Article about nn nothing David Humphreys 19:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was Speedy Delete WP:CSD A7 - no assertion of notability. Gwernol 20:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Danny moore

First few paras are about his father ... last para shows it as a nn bio David Humphreys 19:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

100% accurate— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.235.193 ( talk • contribs)

An article that was speedily deleted does not qualify as a speedy deletion under repost. That's for something that went within Wiki's deletion policy, like an AfD. Yank sox 20:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was Keep, nomination withdrawn. Yank sox 04:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

1980s wrestling boom

Appears to be original research/essay, is repeated off of other articles, or could be spilt into them. Burgwerworldz 20:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I would like to withdraw this article for consideration -- Burgwerworldz 03:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate wasredirect to Free. JYolkowski // talk 00:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

FREE

It says right in the article it's a neologism. This term was only ever used in reference to the Shenmue series, so it should be deleted and re-directed to Shenmue Free and add link to Shenmue on this disambiguation page. Ace of Sevens 20:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete, author requests — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 08:14Z

Myallsearch

nn website, no relevant Google hits. de-prodded. — getcrunk what?! 20:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Totally nn, 3 google hits [57], none relevant. -- IslaySolomon 20:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep (CallieSulake) Not sure why you think this should be deleted. This is my first article on Wikipedia I dont see what wrong with it. and youv'e just said NoNoNo. --— Preceding unsigned comment added by CallieSulake ( talk • contribs)
  • Comment I don't see anything wrong with this article. it is a website. The description is informative and not advertising at all. Perhaps IslyaSolomon has baised views about this? debbie King Debbie@quizmania.tv --— Preceding unsigned comment added by Debbieking ( talk • contribs)
  • Keep (CallieSulake) I should point out to the wikipedians that want my first article removed: Look at the article. The website started in "JUNE". The website could be in the process of being indexed by Google/yahoo/ask etc... You can not disagree. Thank you and good day :) --— Preceding unsigned comment added by CallieSulake ( talk • contribs)

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CallieSulake ( talk • contribs) .

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

GAJ

Reason this is GAJ (2) is because there was a page at GAJ that was deleted previously.

Last AfD was only stopped beause nom was polite and removed notice. I think he should have stuck to the courage of his convictions. This page is about a self-published book, which means it is probably not notable per WP:BK. I accept, though, that is could be notable if it provoked important social phenomena and reviews etc. But let us consider the three reviews we have as links: one is a university paper, another is a local Ottawa paper and the other is a yoga magazine. Hardly important national or interantional coverage. Overall, non-noatbel, free advertising for someone's self-published book that has had no real impact. Batmanand | Talk 20:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Mena conspiracy

non-notable conspiracy theory Tom Harrison Talk 20:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

American Wrestling Federations

small fantasy wrestling fed Burgwerworldz 20:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was Keep, nomination withdrawn. Yank sox 04:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Extreme Warfare

nn software, reads as ad Burgwerworldz 20:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I withdraw the nomination I have given. I don't think it's notable at all, but if you want WP to be a cesspool, so be it. -- Burgwerworldz 23:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mango juice talk 15:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Elbow Board

This is a non-notable website. I had previously used WP:PROD but the author deleted that, so I'm using AfD in accordance with policy. Hawaiian717 20:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was no consensus. Counted MLA's vote as a delete vote, since withdrawal was withdrawn. Mango juice talk 15:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Black Saturday (1984)

Seems to be an inside term of wrestling fans. Also look for AfD on Black Friday, a game show "term". Only netted 134 hits on google with search of ("black saturday" 1984 wrestling). Burgwerworldz 21:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Keep. The event itself is extremely notable within its context, even if the article name itself is not widely used. McPhail 23:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Then keep it within the articles of the organizations and the television shows this effects, having a total cruft term has no place here. Burgwerworldz 23:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
The events of the article transcend three different corporations; recounting the event in three different articles would appear to be redundant. The term "Black Saturday" has been acknowledged by wrestling executives such as Ole Anderson. In addition, it has been described by journalists as " a pivotal point in the history of professional wrestling". It is not "cruft". McPhail 00:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Weak Keep, Ghits show some significance in a stand-alone sense; it's conceivable people would look up the term expecting this particular manifestation of it. "Weak" because I hate how subgenres like wrestling, Star Trek, etc have an article for every little nuance, but that's just personal opinion. HumbleGod 23:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Certainly a significant part of wrestling history, particularly in the 1980s. Maybe under a different name or with redirects relating to the incident. Normy 132 01:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I would like to withdraw this article for consideration -- Burgwerworldz 03:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Comment I think that sounds reasonable. It might be best for the author of this article (or someone else who cares to improve this area) advocate this move and explicitly accept deletion (with a quick recue of savable material by copying it into an appropriately named article such as "History of professional wrestling".-- Nick Y. 15:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

KEEP gotta keep it. I wanted info on a reference and I found exactly what I was looking for. User: puremournin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.68.2.31 ( talk • contribs)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as xlink-only — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 00:08Z

Atik

Utterly non-notable blog. Self-promotion/vanity. GregorB 22:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as nonsense — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 00:06Z

Spidermaning

Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. I personally think this one is a very obvious deletion candidate but I couldn't find a speedy criterion that it would fit into. -- Joanne B 22:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Children of ataturk

organisation which may or maynot exist. Unfortunately non-verifiable. As far as I can see 0 relevant Google hits. Travelbird 22:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Tim Crutchfield

Submitted on behalf of Sandy who was not sure of the procedure. The concern is a possible lack of notability (the guy is only a city councillor) and none of the many statements are directly sourced despite several requests to the author. OTOH he does seem to have some colourful episodes and has risen above health problems. I am neutral on this. TerriersFan 22:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Thanks, TerriersFan. This article came to my attention several months ago via a wikilink to Tourette syndrome. I have been prompting the unsigned author of this article to reference it with primary sources and establish notability since April 28 (see Talk:Tim Crutchfield). It is not clear to me that notability is established for this local politician, the article has not been referenced, and I've had to constantly edit out unsourced, inappropriate references to his personal life (e.g.; ex-wife and marital issues). Sandy 22:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment that's not quite true. I think "limited relevance" would be a more fair description. But some have questionnable independence (such as the autobiography) and the others have limited credibility being local papers. Pascal.Tesson 23:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment if you expect that donating to Wikipedia gives you any sort of control over its content then stop donating. Pascal.Tesson 17:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete city council members, liberal, conservative, communist or martian, aren't notable enough for an encyclopedia. Okay, maybe martians...but not regular old humans. -- Scientizzle 00:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Go figure. Somebody does something good for a town, like help to get the sex offender's list started there and this is the thanks he gets. I guess we see whose side Wikipedia is on. Ianpage 15:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Contribs of above signed editor show a potential AfD non-notable, David Parnell, originally created by User talk:Tlmcrutch. User 64.82.216.246, are you Tim Crutch? Sandy 14:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Unsigned editor above retroactively changed signature. [58] Sandy 17:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

No. I am a constituent, however, and a fellow employee where he has his contract. This computer has public access as a sample demo to sell our internet services. It can be used by anyone. I know the man personally, and even I think he should be given credit for what he has done. Ianpage 15:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Unsigned editor above retroactively changed signature. [59] Sandy 17:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
Perhaps you can put up a website or blog about him. Notability must be established per WP:BIO for inclusion in Wikipedia. Sandy 15:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

That wouldn't give him the credit he deserves. Wikipedia has more access. It irritates me to no end the criticism this man has gone through, but he never seems to get credit for what he has done for us. His notability has been more than established, especially here in Dexter, Missouri. Ianpage 15:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Comment User Ianpage registered today, and Crutchfield is his only contribution. Sandy 17:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was speedy deleted as a violation of GFDL - User:Zoe| (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hom-dai

The poorly written article is about a curse featured in a Mummy film. Besides notability, the problem is that the author has copyrighted the text (see the end of the article) and do not allow changes. I have had bad experiences with this editor in case of Ahm Shere article - she really do not like changes in her texts. Ioannes Pragensis 22:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was no consensus, so kept. JYolkowski // talk 00:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Irene Stewart

If we're claiming that notability includes school district boards of directors, then we're really stretching the bounds of notability. Also, it's an autobiography. User:Zoe| (talk) 22:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Delete because who cares. Danny Lilithborne 23:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Keep Merge -- I'm involved in editing the article. Since Wikipedia includes everything from info about every single ever released to various local politicians, why is this article not valid? I will include links to where I got my info for the page. However, since there seems to be broad majority forming against the article, it should be merged into Lou Stewart, her father and a very prominent labor leader. -- Tjss (Talk) 00:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete School Board? Mayor's office? Very, very few local offices hold any shot at notability. These are not they. -- DarkAudit 00:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the debate was Speedy keep. - Bobet 22:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Fabio Grosso

This guy is not known outside of Italy. This is why it should only be in Italian Wikipedia. Delete- As above. Kingjeff 22:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

All Star Wonder Woman

This page is empty, save for speculation about the possible title's premiere and creative team. Chris Griswold 22:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was delete. Sounds like it might be a copyvio anyway. JYolkowski // talk 00:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

List of billionaire divorces

listcruft. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information Markeer 23:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as copyvio — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-04 23:50Z

Advanced Global Connections

Wow. This thing reads as blatant advertising if I ever saw it. The person associated with it may have some level of notability however. Kevin_b_er 23:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was delete. JYolkowski // talk 00:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Abbie

The article describes a one-off character from The Simpsons. I can't imagine that anyone searching for her would look for simply "Abbie" rather than "Abbie Simpson," (or whatever her last name is) so I don't think a merge/redirect is really appropriate. The material is already in the relevant Simpson episode article. Joyous! | Talk 23:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mango juice talk 14:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

House lucius

One of the more creative hoaxes. A "non-profit vampire organization". Probably too creative for CSD Travelbird


  • check discussions page too*
Comment Which discussion page ? Travelbird 23:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
This one, the discussion page for this AfD. Fan-1967 23:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Comment The page has been edited. It no longer claims the members are vampires. It's not clear if they're role-playing as vampires or they just believe in vampires or what. Still makes no assertion of notability, so my vote is unchanged. Ace of Sevens 00:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I don't really care if these guys believe in vampires or just like to suck a little blood or pretend on the internet or what, I see nothing that makes them any different from any other bunch of vampire-obsessed people on the internet. I was kinda hoping that we might get to see the obligatory death threats from Master Darkchylde von Hemoglobin, but with 49 posts on their forums and 11 registered members, I guess they just don't have the manpower to reach that level of outrage, even if all of us foolish mortals refuse to accept the superiority of the children of the night... Bummer. -- Captain Disdain 01:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • A Comment: Since when an article on wiki is meant for deletion due to personal subjective views?— Preceding unsigned comment added by DeltaOne ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 5 July 2006
  • Reply: The forum is not the subject of that page. Over 700 people have stopped by, although not registered on the forum and over 11000 hits, as seen in the statistics. Does that not count, when trying to figure out the notability of something? And please don't refer to 'House Lucius' as "mine". I am not here as an official representant of 'House Lucius', therefore I urge you to refrain from such comments. (Sorry if it's a little harsh) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DeltaOne ( talk • contribs) 01:48, 6 July 2006
  • Well, first of all, we delete things all the time because of personal subjective views, or rather, a consensus of personal subjective views. On Wikipedia, consensus tends to be king. However, to make things a little easier, we do have various policies and guidelines to direct those views. One of those guidelines is called Wikipedia:Notability (web). House Lucius does not meet those guidelines -- it doesn't even come anywhere close to meeting them. Secondly, no offense intended, but I think you may need to get a little perspective here, because "over 700 people have stopped by" and "over 11 000 hits" since August, 2005 is, uh, pretty much nothing. (And incidentally, I have to say that it strikes me as more than a little dishonest that the site uses the phrase to describe itself on the forums. Having 700 people visit the site in one year (that's, what, less than two visitors a day...?) is not at all the same thing as having 700 members.) This is not an attack against the site, it's just that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and House Lucius is a very small website. Very small websites are very rarely suitable topics for encyclopedia articles. Oh, and when participating in discussions like this, please sign your comments, by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comment. -- Captain Disdain 02:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Sorry, didn't knew how to do that. Yes, I agree that the site notability might be a little low, I just wanted to point out that it wasn't inexistent. And I beg to disagree, if 'House Lucius' is not interested in forums there is nothing anyone can do about it. What I'm trying to say that not ones forum denotes overall activity of something, so you should not judge it by the activity on the forum. And about the personal views thingy, like: " don't really care if these guys believe in vampires or just like to suck a little blood or pretend on the internet or what, I see nothing that makes them any different from any other bunch of vampire-obsessed people on the internet." So deleting their article of wiki, because of this? I can tell the policy and guideline regarding this view. DeltaOne 10:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • But I'm not judging it (only) by the activity on the forum, although I have to say that any site with a forum as devoid of life as that one is going to have a damn hard time convincing me that people actually, y'know, use it. But that's not the only criterion I'm using here; the user counter on the front page of the House Lucius clearly indicates that only a few people use it. But if that doesn't work for you, how about an Alexa ranking? At the time of this writing, that'd be 873,557. That's nothing to write home about. And yes, as I said, I don't really care if these guys believe in vampires etc. That's a personal opinion, absolutely, but that's not why I think the article should be deleted. You see, the people who frequent the site might believe in Santa Claus or be avid kite fliers or obsessively enjoy a rousing polka -- I don't care and it doesn't matter, because the site does not stand out. It's not notable. It's not encyclopedic material. If you want to believe that I just look down on the poor vampire enthusiasts and unfairly want to delete the article because of that, I can't stop you from doing so, but the bottom line is that the site doesn't even remotely meet WP:WEB. This is not persecution, and it's nothing personal. The purpose of Wikipedia is not to let everyone create an article about whatever they like. Very few sites merit Wikipedia articles, and articles about much larger and much more popular sites than House Lucius get rejected all the time. -- Captain Disdain 13:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • I don't want to look like a bugger. I see what you mean, and thanks for the Alexa link, didn't knew the existance of such site. If the real purpose of Wikipedia is, as you say, not to let everyone create an article about whatever they like, as few merit to be featured on Wikipedia as it's an encyclopedia of very important things, then I fear that I have made a bad choice submitting it in the first place. Thanks for sharing your views, my respect for wikipedia has fallen tremendously.(sp?) DeltaOne
  • Well, have it your way. For me, that's the kind of a thing that increases my respect for Wikipedia, because if we weren't discriminate about what kind of topics we have articles on, we could have articles on, say, your cat (if you have one) or your lack of cats (if you don't happen to have any). Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Just because something is true, that doesn't mean an article should be written about it. -- Captain Disdain 20:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • But, until an administrator checks this article, I will try to sum the reasons why it was meant for deletion.
    1. Hoax (I yet haven't received any info regarding this)
    2. Not-Notable-Forum (at that time there was a link to the forum, link removed. Also, there has been a discussion about the fact that, as few people are on their forum, their website is not notable, thing that I completely disagree with)
    3. Not-Notable-Organization (poor wording in the article, it has been edited to better reflect the issue)
    4. Not-Notable-Website. This one was controversial to one point, when Captain Disdain explained that from an Alexa Ranking, it's not notable, and I have been also explained that wikipedia, as a respected online encyclopedia shall not have articles on things that are not very notable. I also, respectfully, disagree with this.


Feel free to comment here rather than sub-commenting the above topic if there are any other reasons for deletion. DeltaOne

I suggest you read the articles at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Five pillars and think about how they relate to your article here. You can argue your case here, but honestly, I think you're wasting your time. This is not some kind of a weird legal process or a bureaucracy where you can find a loophole or interpret the rules in your favor. The bottom line is, it's exceedingly unlikely that this article will remain on Wikipedia -- unless, of course, you can turn it into a properly sourced and verifiable article that also establishes why this website, out of, what, millions of other websites, is significant and notable enough to deserve an article, even though it's not widely used, it only gets a few relevant Google hits ("House Lucius" gets about 270 Google hits, but only a few of them are actually about the site). I mean, what do you want me to say? It's not a popular site. I don't mean any offense here, but allow me to be frank: it's not widely used. It's not widely discussed. It's not widely linked to. Seriously, my blog -- which is not the subject of a Wikipedia article and definitely shouldn't be one, either -- has a considerably larger Internet presence than House Lucius. So I don't think you can get an article out of this one, but if you could, I'm sure we'd all willing to change our votes in this matter. That happens in AfD processes all the time. Personally, though, I think you'd be better off learning from this experience. I don't mean to be a dick here, but c'mon, face the facts. The fact that your site is not widely recognized doesn't mean it's a bad site (any more than my blog is a bad blog). This is not about quality or a judgement call about your site's content. It's a simple matter of us having certain guidelines and your site not meeting them. -- Captain Disdain 20:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply
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The result of the nomination was delete. Mango juice talk 14:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Triacontakaiheptagonal number

Originally prod'd, with the reason being given as "Wikipedia is not infinite. This article is not encyclopaedic. The only "interesting property" mentioned is having an awkward name. The related article triacontakaiheptagon was deleted per Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Enneacontakaienneagon." I concurred with a {{ prod2}}, and I concur now. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 23:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as copyvio — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 01:17Z

Jinsoo Terry

As with the article on Advanced Global Connections, of which she is the head, appears to be more of a self-promo. Author of this page has only created/edited three articles, all of which tie back to Jinsoo Terry. HumbleGod 23:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Comment also, since the article on Advanced Global Connections was speedy deleted, this might qualify for the same, since it has the exact same problems as that article. HumbleGod 23:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply
    • I had deleted Advanced Global Connections as copyvio. It turns out this article is also a copyvio [62]. These deletions are for copyright violations, though I suspect the articles might otherwise be deleted for non-notability anyway. — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 01:16Z
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The result of the nomination was Obvious redirect. Editors should read the Deletion policy before they consider nominating an article for deletion. The presence of a redirect here is harmless and, if the creator of the page returns to edit it, he will be redirected to the more compendious article. -- Tony Sidaway 11:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Case of English pronouns

English pronouns are already covered in depth at Pronouns and related pages. Strad 23:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Poncholand.net

It gets 2 hits on Google, and the only content on the site seems to be some kid doing tricks on his bike. Looks like vanity, and I see no reason that anyone would even consider it remotely notable. tmopkisn tlka 00:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

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The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 04:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Eversites

NN, also looks like original research. Google hits for "eversites": 78. The article contains a quote from the BBB which I cannot locate on bbb.org. In fact, the phrase "eversites claims" (which is taken directly from the quotation) does not seem to appear on any web pages, save for this article. A URL search for eversites.com at the BBB site does yield some useful information - that there are "7 pending complaint [sic]" against eversites, and 1 resolved complaint with regard to sales practices, but it doesn't list the outcome. It looks to me like someone got scammed and decided to make a wikipedia article about it. Either way, 78 Google hits is ridiculous. Delete. Moe Aboulkheir 00:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

  • Keep. The quote is from http://www.ky-in.bbb.org/alerts/20060412.pdf, which I've added to the article. (It was the first Google hit after the company's own website.) — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-05 00:58Z
    • Hmm, I was wrong about not being able to find "eversites claims" - google hides the result because the (long) quote in the WP article appears in both. I only see it if I click the "show omitted results" link, which includes matches that share long sequences of text with higher-ranked pages. Though the BBB PDF doesn't show up in any of the results for a vanilla "eversites" query, it appears on the first page, in the 8th position, if i include omitted results. Of course, my vote still stands. Moe Aboulkheir 22:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
      • I guess I got carried away with correcting the implication that the BBB quote was made-up. — Quarl ( talk) 2006-07-06 08:02Z
  • Strong Delete Absolutely just an advert and absolutely NN company DavidHumphreys SPEAK TO MEABOUT THE THINGS I MESSED UP 15:37, 4 August 2024 UTC [ refresh
  • Delete Whatever it is, it's highly non-notable, as the nom pointed out in detail. -- Kicking222 01:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Sucks for whoever got burned by them, but doesn't make it notable. WP:CORP? HumbleGod 04:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_4&oldid=1233297923"

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