The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. A consensus to delete is not going to form. A discussion on whether and where to merge can continue editorially. Star Mississippi 14:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC) reply

List of minor Mulliner characters

List of minor Mulliner characters (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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PRODded by Jontesta ( talk · contribs) with the following rationale, and endorsed by TenPoundHammer ( talk · contribs), but deprodded without explanation by DGG ( talk · contribs).

Completely unsourced. WP:BEFORE shows no reliable third-party sources to establish notability for this topic. Almost all entries are simply a name and a profession. They have all been tagged for expansion since 2008 and safe to say that expansion isn't coming.

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Literature, and Lists. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 13:46, 11 June 2022 (UTC) reply

On the talk page they offered the following rationale, without providing explicit examples of reliable sources: multiple sources are available in the many books abot [ sic] PG Wodehouse . – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 18:00, 11 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Keep per the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of minor Ukridge characters. Lists of not-individually-notable characters for a notable fictional franchise are entirely within WP:CSC. Jclemens ( talk) 03:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC) reply
  • But that discussion ended in merge, not keep. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• In addition to the two encyclopedic sources listed at the end, there are 19 substantial biographies in English, most of which discuss at least briefly every story. DGG ( talk ) 05:30, 12 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Keep Such characters can deserve to have their own list. Agletarang ( talk) 09:09, 12 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete per the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of minor Ukridge characters which established that such characters do not warrant a stand-alone list on Wikipedia. The mentioned biographies of the author do not cover these characters with WP:SIGCOV. As stated in the WP:PROD, there are no reliable third party sources that cover this topic in direct detail, and as each entry has been tagged for almost 15 years, it's safe to say that the sources are not coming. Jontesta ( talk) 23:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Merge Redirect, I don't see how this meets WP:NLIST. But we do have List_of_P._G._Wodehouse_characters#Mr._Mulliner. Merge all referenced parts there. Oh, well. There're no footnotes. Sigh. Low quality fancruft, just redirect there. PS. Initially I wrote "delete" due to OR - who decides who is a minor character? Would support a merge to a List of Mulliner characters but that article doesn't exist... seriously, what were some folks thinking starting a "minor" list before even trying to make a proper list for non-minor characters? In general, lists of minor Foo characters all need to go. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete, or Redirect. Given the comment above about coverage in biographies, I checked three: P.G. Wodehouse, a biography (Donaldson); Wodehouse : a life (McCrum); and P. G. Wodehouse : a portrait of a master (Jasen) and found very little discussion of any Mulliner stories in them, and certainly no discussion of the Mulliner characters listed in the article. DGG, could you provide an example or two? I'd love to be persuaded to change my mind as I'm a huge fan of Wodehouse. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 22:28, 16 June 2022 (UTC) reply
• Delete - Not only does this fail WP:LISTN, but most (if not all) of these characters are already listed at Mr. Mulliner#Known relatives, making this an unnecessary spinout. Rorshacma ( talk) 14:30, 17 June 2022 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:41, 18 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Delete and redirect- There's no indication that this meets, or ever can meet, WP:LISTN. It's almost entirely unsourced, and what little referencing there is, is of very low quality. As pointed out by Jontesta, this has been tagged as unsourced for 15 years which means it's unlikely that the required sources exist. I have been unable to find anything useful except for the works of fiction themselves, and that isn't enough. Reyk _YO! 22:01, 19 June 2022 (UTC) reply

the crterion is sourcable, not currently unsourced. DGG ( talk ) 05

19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

• Keep and oppose merge/redirect. Clearly passes WP:NLIST and WP:SIGCOV per DGG and JClemens. AFD is not cleanup. 4meter4 ( talk) 20:45, 26 June 2022 (UTC) reply

Hi 4meter4 and DGG. Please could you provide any examples of WP:SIGCOV? As mentioned above, I'm keen to be persuaded to change my vote. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 09:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC) reply

I'd be interested to know what prompted the "AFDISNOTCLEANUP" quip, as neither the nomination nor any of the delete !votes in any way try to use AfD as cleanup. Is it just a thought-terminating cliche? Reyk _YO! 21:03, 27 June 2022 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 16:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC) reply

• Redirect as this is not an issue of cleanup, but numerous unsourced sections that cannot be expanded with reliable sources. Most of these have been tagged for almost 15 years and still no one has found sources that can meet the WP:GNG. Would support deletion, but other similar article ended with a redirect, to leave open the possibility of expanding the subject at the main article. Shooterwalker ( talk) 21:36, 30 June 2022 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.