- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Wahbi Khazri. In each case the articles should be merged to their parent articles, leaving a redirect. MelanieN ( talk) 20:46, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of international goals scored by Wahbi Khazri ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- List of international goals scored by Vartan Ghazarian ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- List of international goals scored by Roda Antar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Along with my earlier discussion, these three articles for me seem too miscellaneous to be actual articles and fail WP:GNG and WP:LISTN. None of these footballers are the top-scorers for the national team or have scored 25 goals. I'm not saying any of these players' international careers aren't notable, but they sure aren't notable enough to be stand-alone lists. Instead, they should be merged back into their main article and look like Christian Pulisic#International goals for example. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 20:51, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 20:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lebanon-related deletion discussions. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 20:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 20:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 20:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- Keep They have once been top scorers for their countries. The same way we have these lists for current top scorers, it's only logical to have the same lists for former top scorers.
Nehme1499 (
talk)
21:18, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- @
Nehme1499... Not necessarily. All of the international goals lists in the
career achievements category from former and non all-time topscorers are from players who have scored at least 25 goals, are one of the top 10 leading goalscorers for their nation, and are fairly recognizable for the average football fan. Wartan Ghazarian and Roda Antar don't satisfy any of those of three requirements except the second one.
KingSkyLord (
talk |
contribs)
15:32, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- @
KingSkyLord: where did we get 25 goals from? It's just an arbitrary number as any other. I could easily say that all of the players in that category have at least 20 goals, and Roda Antar satisfies this condition. Also, your third condition is very subjective, and I don't think it's a reason to diminish the article. Roda Antar is very recognizable among Lebanese fans, and Bundesliga fans during the 2000s, as well as in China in the 2010s.
Nehme1499 (
talk)
15:38, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- @
Nehme1499: That's not what I meant. What I was trying to say is that those players' international careers are big enough to get their own in-depth sections in their own articles, but a little too niche to get their own personal lists. It just seems a little odd that someone who's only scored only 19 or 20 international goals has their list while several with 30 or 40 barely even have a small mention in their own articles. While it isn't questionable of their impact to the Lebanon national team, it isn't that notable enough that it deserves to be its own article. Both of them could easily fit back in their own articles, which aren't even that big (especially Ghazarian's which is less than 7,000 bytes). To be honest, we should have certain rules in place for the standards of these types of lists so that we don't end up in situations like these time and time, again and again. So here is my proposal for men's international goals lists. They should either be:
- 1. The all-time topscorer of their country with at least 20 goals.
- 2. A notable non all-time topscorer with at least 25 goals that is one of their national team's top 10 leading goalscorers with a very notable career.
- @
Nehme1499: That's not what I meant. What I was trying to say is that those players' international careers are big enough to get their own in-depth sections in their own articles, but a little too niche to get their own personal lists. It just seems a little odd that someone who's only scored only 19 or 20 international goals has their list while several with 30 or 40 barely even have a small mention in their own articles. While it isn't questionable of their impact to the Lebanon national team, it isn't that notable enough that it deserves to be its own article. Both of them could easily fit back in their own articles, which aren't even that big (especially Ghazarian's which is less than 7,000 bytes). To be honest, we should have certain rules in place for the standards of these types of lists so that we don't end up in situations like these time and time, again and again. So here is my proposal for men's international goals lists. They should either be:
- @
KingSkyLord: where did we get 25 goals from? It's just an arbitrary number as any other. I could easily say that all of the players in that category have at least 20 goals, and Roda Antar satisfies this condition. Also, your third condition is very subjective, and I don't think it's a reason to diminish the article. Roda Antar is very recognizable among Lebanese fans, and Bundesliga fans during the 2000s, as well as in China in the 2010s.
Nehme1499 (
talk)
15:38, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- @
Nehme1499... Not necessarily. All of the international goals lists in the
career achievements category from former and non all-time topscorers are from players who have scored at least 25 goals, are one of the top 10 leading goalscorers for their nation, and are fairly recognizable for the average football fan. Wartan Ghazarian and Roda Antar don't satisfy any of those of three requirements except the second one.
KingSkyLord (
talk |
contribs)
15:32, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- Feel free to agree or disagree, but in my opinion these should be the standards. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 01:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to
Wahbi_Khazri#International_goals, where a list of international goals is already located. Having the list as a stand-alone article fails
WP:LISTN and
WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. This may be suitable for an article segment, but not an independent article. We don't have
List of home runs hit by Babe Ruth, for example.
Hog Farm (
talk)
23:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
- @ User:Hog Farm: To be honest, I would just delete it entirely and not redirect at all. Also, scoring a home run in Major League Baseball and scoring a goal in international association football is completely different. Home runs are a very common feat due to the fact that baseball players usually play around 150 games a season. In international soccer, national teams play around 15 to 25 matches a year, with the chance of a player scoring or even being capped depending a lot on certain circumstances relating to the player, manager, and other eligible players who can play his position. KingSkyLord ( talk | contribs) 15:32, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- Babe Ruth hit over 700 home runs. A figure of over 50 international goals scored by a footballer is considered exceptional. There's simply no comparison -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:07, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- Merge back Those lists shouldn't of been removed from the player biography articles in the first place. This is a case of little information being scattered to too many different articles. I considered this bad form. Govvy ( talk) 13:51, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect back to the parent articles, no justification for a standalone article. Giant Snowman 17:07, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect - no justification for a stand-alone article. Cheers, 1292simon ( talk)
- Delete this text that is typical of arbitrary glorification of persons and Merge back to the main article about Wahbi Khazri whatever can be verified from the deleted text. (Alternatively, how about separate entries for goals scored by a header, by a volley, and by a penalty?) - The Gnome ( talk) 16:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.